Why does everyone say that 3D Land is safe? Honestly, it does its own thing and if world were on 3ds instead of Wii U, it would have been known as the definitive platforming game period. But the thing is, its very creative and its actually one of the only games that does 3D right.
Making 3D NSMB isn't exactly creative, it's still playing off the same mechanics that the fanbase has gotten sick of by now. A creative game would be more along the lines of Sunshine or Galaxy, a unique theme, a gameplay mechanic that affects the entire game instead of just a handful of levels, etc. Having generic Mushroom Kingdom games with generic settings, the same gameplay and abilities, and the same barebones plot is what makes NSMB and 3D safe.
@Bolt_Strike: By that logic, you can say the same thing for Sunshine and Galaxy because you need to collect Shine sprites/ Power Stars to make progress. Also, the 3D games tend to have the same mechanics over and over again. If you mean by level design its not creative, I can sort of agree. But gameplay wise? No. Its not something safe.
Also, 3D Land is a creative game simply because it incorporates 2D and 3D Mario. That itself is being creative. And since this game is currently the best selling 3ds game, it does deserve what it is and its an amazing game. I love its presentation and that IS the creative part.
I can agree that New Super Mario Bros 2 played safe, but 3D Land? No it didn't. This game was made when the Tsunami happened and the 3DS needed killer apps so 3D Land was the way to it.
Of course the 3DS is safe. It's one of Nintendo's main money makers right now, along with Amiibo, I'd say. The Wii U is their risk console, the 3DS is their safe console.
@Bolt_Strike: By that logic, you can say the same thing for Sunshine and Galaxy because you need to collect Shine sprites/ Power Stars to make progress. Also, the 3D games tend to have the same mechanics over and over again. If you mean by level design its not creative, I can sort of agree. But gameplay wise? No. Its not something safe.
That's a very broad way of looking at gameplay. By that logic everything's either a rehash or a different genre. Sure Sunshine and Galaxy had the same gameplay style where you had to collect Stars/Shines to progress, but it's what they added onto that formula that made them unique. Sunshine had FLUDD, which was more than just a simple powerup, but an entire class of powerups which the entire game was designed around (unlike NSMB and 3D's powerups, which only truly came into play a couple of levels in the game). And Galaxy had the spin move and antigravity, the latter of which allowed for entirely new types of level design and both of which the game was also designed around. In short, the games' gimmicks had a much deeper effect on the gameplay to the point of feeling like a genuine twist on the formula instead of the shallow distractions we get in NSMB and 3D.
Also, 3D Land is a creative game simply because it incorporates 2D and 3D Mario. That itself is being creative.
Mashing two things together doesn't automatically make something creative. There has to be something unique from that combination, and in this case, there isn't. Literally the only difference between the two styles is how many dimensions you can move in. The only surefire way for something to be creative is if it does something entirely new.
And since this game is currently the best selling 3ds game, it does deserve what it is and its an amazing game. I love its presentation and that IS the creative part.
Sales =/= good (in fact, more often then not it seems to be the exact opposite). If that were the case, NSMB and CoD would sell terribly instead of being among the highest selling games in the industry.
@Artwark: 3D Land isn't the best selling 3DS game. That's Pokemon X/Y. 3D Land is the 4th best selling game after Pokemon X/Y, Mario Kart 7, and Pokemon ORAS.
I think Fire Emblem Awakening did more than Shadow Dragon. There was a few Snes to DS games, they were great remastered but comparing them to the great work on OoT 3D and MM 3D, they were slightly spruced up snes games. I thought FE12 was the most impressive of the DS games released, I still need to finish it, however.
That's a very broad way of looking at gameplay. By that logic everything's either a rehash or a different genre. Sure Sunshine and Galaxy had the same gameplay style where you had to collect Stars/Shines to progress, but it's what they added onto that formula that made them unique. Sunshine had FLUDD, which was more than just a simple powerup, but an entire class of powerups which the entire game was designed around (unlike NSMB and 3D's powerups, which only truly came into play a couple of levels in the game). And Galaxy had the spin move and antigravity, the latter of which allowed for entirely new types of level design and both of which the game was also designed around. In short, the games' gimmicks had a much deeper effect on the gameplay to the point of feeling like a genuine twist on the formula instead of the shallow distractions we get in NSMB and 3D.
Mashing two things together doesn't automatically make something creative. There has to be something unique from that combination, and in this case, there isn't. Literally the only difference between the two styles is how many dimensions you can move in. The only surefire way for something to be creative is if it does something entirely new.
Sales =/= good (in fact, more often then not it seems to be the exact opposite). If that were the case, NSMB and CoD would sell terribly instead of being among the highest selling games in the industry.
twisting formula is also something 3D Land does.The whole innovation in 3D Land is actually from the 3D effect. If you play the game in 3D, It makes the experience better and I didn't even use much of 3D. Also, 3D Land added new powerups like the Boomerang? So It does do something new in that regard. Again, you're playing a 2D Mario in 3D. I can't understand that logic of not being able to accept that as new. Honestly, when was the last time before 3D Land that we've played a Super Mario game like 3D Land? Anything that does things differently is innovation and whether you agree with me on this or not, 3D Land is innovative for three things. Playing both 2D and 3D gameplay, making actual use of the 3D effect and having new powerups.
twisting formula is also something 3D Land does.The whole innovation in 3D Land is actually from the 3D effect. If you play the game in 3D, It makes the experience better and I didn't even use much of 3D. Also, 3D Land added new powerups like the Boomerang? So It does do something new in that regard.
You completely missed my point about the difference between FLUDD and antigravity and powerups like the Boomerang Flower. FLUDD and antigravity are a constant part of the game and the gameplay comes up with various ways to utilize them which have major effects on the gameplay. The Boomerang Flower is only useful for a couple of levels and is pretty much a one trick pony, it doesn't have nearly the same impact.
Again, you're playing a 2D Mario in 3D. I can't understand that logic of not being able to accept that as new. Honestly, when was the last time before 3D Land that we've played a Super Mario game like 3D Land?
Because the only thing that differs between the two is how you move and that doesn't amount to much. Everything else about the game is exactly the same, same characters, same abilities, same level structure. Those aspects are far more defining to the experience, so those things need to change for the gameplay to remain fresh.
Anything that does things differently is innovation and whether you agree with me on this or not, 3D Land is innovative for three things. Playing both 2D and 3D gameplay, making actual use of the 3D effect and having new powerups.
It's not enough to do things differently for it to be an innovation. An innovation needs to create a major change that defies established conventions. Combining 2D and 3D doesn't do that because the gameplay is merely the sum of its parts and doesn't do anything that the two styles didn't. And no, the 3D effect isn't innovative at all because there's nothing gameplay wise that takes advantage of it, it's almost entirely a graphical improvement.
First of all. I agree that the Nintendo 3DS isnt the most creativ Platform. But i like it so far much more then the DS Ara. I was a hugh fan of the GBA. Games like Golden Sun, Avance Wars, Wario Ware, FFTA, Mario und Luigi, Harvest Moon FoMT and then all the Snes Remakes or Castlevania!. But with the DS i never got happy. Sure there was some cool new Idears but none of them really got me. The Zelda Titels was really sad and easy and all the Titels that you named first are cool but for me all not a must have. Nothing that really got me.
That was one of the resons why i took something like a Nintendo break and i got my 3DS XL in the beginning of this year because i couldnt resist Monster Hunter and what should i say... Im extremly happy with the 3DS. Fire Emblem Awakening, MH4, etrian odyssey 4, Rune Factory 4. All not new idears thats true. But for me the best Games in the whole Series. Then all the nice Remakes like the Zelda Games or Xenoblade. I enjoy the 3ds far more then the DS.
GBA is even worse than 3DS frankly. There were a ton of remakes and not a lot of standout games. In fact, some big IPs like Mario, DK, and Yoshi pretty much relied on remakes on that handheld and skipped out on a new main series title (although back when it was out, I didn't know all of those games were remakes so they were new to me, but looking back the lineup was pretty bad).
@Bolt_Strike: But at the same time, the GBA was home to several new IPs, both 1st and 3rd party. I have to disagree on the "not a lot of standout games" comment. Yoshi and DK also never had remakes on the GBA, those were ports.
@Haru17: Did something new like open world with renting items instead of getting them in dungeons? Yeah, I don't recall any Zelda game that changed the usual way of getting items.
@Bolt_Strike: I disagree here simply because those remakes that you've mentioned added new features to them and made it easier to play such games. While in sound wise, its a bit inferior, graphically, its just as powerful as the SNES. To date, there are still lots of GBA games that I want to get even though the DS is my all time favorite system.... and to make a small rant for the heck of it, WHY GBA ON WII U?
@Haru17: Did something new like open world with renting items instead of getting them in dungeons? Yeah, I don't recall any Zelda game that changed the usual way of getting items.
That doesn't make the most important part of any Zelda game, the level design, any less safe-as-stuff.
GBA is even worse than 3DS frankly. There were a ton of remakes and not a lot of standout games. In fact, some big IPs like Mario, DK, and Yoshi pretty much relied on remakes on that handheld and skipped out on a new main series title (although back when it was out, I didn't know all of those games were remakes so they were new to me, but looking back the lineup was pretty bad).
lol that's what happens when you retrospectively look back at what you didn't understand back then to begin with. you understand it even less. today you kids look at everything so damn negatively, "it relied on remakes" - when the GBA was out, those remakes were not frowned upon one single little bit. at all. it was not in anyones mind. can you even comprehend that? we were so happy and blessed to have portable versions of these iconic SNES games in our hands.now you guys get half way between PS2 and PS3 era JRPGs on your handhelds and you are squabbling about who knows what. nothing is good enough!
i think it just comes down to the fact that we were too busy having fun to complain. even 10 to 15 years ago our minds were clouded with less bullshit - thanks to the internet kids these days are spending more time arguing and less time experiencing!
I kind of agree but let's be honest: there's a big difference. The vast majority of gamers could get the original version of most of the early 3DS remakes on the Wii or some other popular gaming system for way cheaper. In the early 2000s the idea of downloading video games was practically unheard of, and certainly the idea to remake games at a significant fraction of the cost of a new game.
The thing is, with the 3DS nearing gamecube-levels of processing power, it's just home to worse, cell phone-ified versions of console games. 6th gen was the last big technology leap that actually improved something other than connectivity (anything that mattered.) As such the 3DS can essentially run current gen games, albeit less pretty, so there isn't the drive to 'innovate' as much.
The best we can hope for on the 3DS is games that don't get their pacing, structure, and quality marred for the sake of 'portability.'
@Haru17: Did something new like open world with renting items instead of getting them in dungeons? Yeah, I don't recall any Zelda game that changed the usual way of getting items.
That doesn't make the most important part of any Zelda game, the level design, any less safe-as-stuff.
That's not the level design's fault but rather the difficulty being rather easy. Again, the puzzles were creative, certainly not as cryptic as most Zelda games. Also, you don't seem to understand the point that Link Between Worlds does.
It removes the linear pathway that nearly all except the first game have
Specific items were no longer in a specific part of a dungeon allowing players to access a dungeon using the specific item from the start.
With that, it doesn't play safe. But honestly, even if it plays safe, does that term "safe" ruin the enjoyment of the game? Just curious..... because from the looks of it, you're being a bit naive here.
With that, it doesn't play safe. But honestly, even if it plays safe, does that term "safe" ruin the enjoyment of the game? Just curious.....
It's not the term that's the problem, it's just the idea. The issue with safe games is that it doesn't change the experience much and when repeated over and over it becomes too predictable and boring. So yes, making a safe game does ruin the enjoyment, games need to change things up every so often to keep things entertaining.
@Bolt_Strike: So then how 3D Land is considered safe when it does something different. I can understand New Super Mario Bros 2 being safe but I don't think 3D Land is safe as it does its own thing.
But there are some games like Sticker Star and Fates that don't play safe at all. Who knows, maybe more 3DS games will come in the way.
Forums
Topic: Compared to the DS, Nintendo's 3DS games are kind of safe
Posts 21 to 40 of 48
This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.