Rumour: Switch Virtual Console Was Apparently Nintendo's "Original Plan"

Wouldn't Nintendo have made more money in the long run with Switch Virtual Console?

I know a lot of people wanted Virtual Console back, and I'm not saying they shouldn't have. But I'm currently only paying slightly more than the cost of 1 VC N64 game for the entire Expansion Pack per year, and it is infinitely better for that reason alone.

Still think it’s a wind up that you can’t buy the games you want to keep.

@PipeGuy64Bit That may be so, however, if Nintendo does not mess it up, they can keep the switch online shop for a long time, without having to close it down like they did the Wii, Dsi, Wii U, and 3DS Online shops...........

@PipeGuy64Bit To be fair, I think offering up individually priced old games would be a bit of a harder sell to non-enthusiasts than paying $20 to have a bunch of old games for no additional cost(If you're not paying for the Expansion Pack, at least). Still, the option to buy certain games to keep playing them even offline would've been appreciated.

I still wish that's what it was. At least give me the option to buy them individually. I still use my Wii U for retro games because I absolutely abhor the idea of subscription models for games.

@ibookboyuk Nope. It's worse for preservation. NSO will still have to be shut down at some point. Or games will be delisted when licenses expire. At least with the Wii U and 3ds virtual console you still get to keep and play the games that you bought and downloaded. Once NSO shuts down all of those games will be completely unavailable.

Both Xbox and PlayStation have subscription services while also allowing for older games to be purchased individually. Nintendo should follow that route.

Let's face it we live in an subscription world now. I'm going to sound old lol but back in the day when you bought PC software that was it but now it's a yearoy/monthly subscription. Even some poor people who can't afford a mortgage have to pay a rent subscription for a house or flat they will never own.

Personally I think the the value of the Nintendo Switch Expansion Pack is good valve (at present) but I would love day one Nintendo DLC added to it. I think ZBOTW DLC still is added to it for free yet?

There are quite a lot of games on NSO I'd happily purchase even with the subscription, really wish it was an option.

The rental only service is unfortunate but iOS is now my main fix for the classics thanks to Apple’s relaxed policies. Most of my Switch purchases are Arcade Archives so it would have been nice to have a ‘console archives’ to add to it, but subscriptions are what the investors like to see

Well that was a major mistake. I still have my launch Wii with over 300 games purchased from VC and guess what? They still work just fine and nobody can take them away from me. Switch online dies eventually and all those games will dissappear.

Therefore as far as retro collecting goes Wii is far better. Plus if you mod your wii the options increase exponentially. Either that or just hack an Nes/Snes mini. Excuse me i gotta go hug my mini systems. Thank goodness i grabbed them up when they were hot!

Yeah bring back the VC Nintendo! I'd gladly pay for the games if you'd let me but noooo! Let's lock retro goodness behind an overpriced pay wall instead and force people to resort to other means. Real smart. 😏

Personally, I am happy with NSO and prefer it to Virtual Console but I do think the games should be for sale individually for those who want them. My biggest issue with NSO is the online play for classic games only possible between those on your friend list, Because of this, I have never been able to try it. I'd wager this applies to the majority of subscribers. What I think they should do is, promote a handful of games every month with online matchmaking through the NSO app, that lets you play with randoms. By doing it this way, it ensures the lobby for each game is always full. Games like Super Mario Kart and MK64 should have a permanent spot with 2 or 3 other multiplayer games in rotation.

I don't see the NSO situation as a good option. I would be thrilled with VC, or even better, compilations of classic games on physical Switch cartridges.

i wouldnt even hate nso sm if nintendo just actually updated their libraries instead of leaving them to collect dust for 2 years before randomly dropping 2 games and leaving, and don't pull that "oh its licensing cost issues!!!!" excuse on me either, nintendo is at their absolute richest and they were able to get massive libraries for vc back in THE 2000's with no problem. there is no excuse for this dripfeeding.

While I do think NSO is great and it got me into a ton of great game franchises and titles, I think not giving people the option to purchase specific games from the library individually and let them own it is a poor choice. Plus, if you want to keep playing those games and not lose access to them, you have to keep paying and it can get expensive over time for some people when all the money builds up. I find that buying a game one time is way more cheaper than subbing to a subscription service for one game and paying for it monthly.

Why can’t they just do what Microsoft does with Game Pass and allowing people to purchase games included in the sub instead of having them stay subbed to the service so they can keep playing those games and not lose access? I think it’s also bad that NSO might at one point shut down and all the games and data there will be gone permanently, plus a lot of those titles included don’t have their own Switch ports you can buy physically or on the eShop.

I think Nintendo realizes that people are going to find and own these games elsewhere if they really want to, so they really have no obligation to make these games buyable again. Just saying.

They could offer the games for sale individually to everyone for whatever price but offer a sizable discount to NSO members. This might even encourage some to sign up to NSO. A 50% discount on each Virtual Console for $20 a year subscription will be worth it for those who want to buy more than a handful of VC titles.

They should allow both, keep the service while offering the chance to buy them individually for preservation and offline play.

The price/value is much better than virtual console. Sure you don’t own them (but do you really with digital games? — otherwise physical games wouldn’t get the high praise).

I’m not the biggest fan of streaming services, but I can experience more for less money (as long as I’m subscribed).

Due to not having extra costs to experiment I tried some games I never have played and also loved them. I’m not sure if I would have bought them just for curiosity… but I found new enjoyable franchises through NSO and bought the recent games:

Fire Emblem, Metroid, mother (ok there is no recent game), castlevania (the advanced & ds collections), WarioWare.

I love DKC, but I’m not sure if I would be happy with DKL if I had paid 5€ or so for them.

And also I think especially the play once for the experience NES games (for example Zelda II, Metroid) have more players than they had if you had to buy them. (And i know hard core fans replay those 😅).

What we have now is way better value to be honest.

I think NSO is priced very fairly considering it gets you the cloud saves, music app, and NSO/retro games.
That being said, I’d without a doubt just buy the games outright if I could. I’d muuucccchhh rather not have a subscription.

I imagine most third parties weren't happy with their VC sales. I remember that going around at one point.

Also I remember everyone wanting VC to be a subscription service instead of piecemeal. Wonder what happened to that when they got their wish.

I’m a big retro enthusiast and prefer to “own” the games. But that’s just a sentimental matter.

The NSO subscription service offers just so much more value for money, it’s hard to beat. Plus this way you’ll discover some titles that you had otherwise never purchased standalone. I like it more than the VC.

Thanks to NSO I have played games I normally wouldn't have bought. So honestly I like the current solution more. (shocking, I know)

This actaully also applies to XBOX GamePass Ultimate.

@ibookboyuk I just don’t see why they can’t do both. If anything having them available to buy seperately would only bolster the value of the subscription, like if they charged £10 a GBA game they could effectively say “hey, you could buy 4 GBA games…or for a fiver less get a full year of expansion pass and get those games plus a ton more.”

@larryisaman 100% agree, it really seems like a win/win for everyone. I don't imagine that there'd be any noticeable dip or decline in NSO subscriptions, the value of the service is bolstered, and anyone who wants to buy has their wish met, netting Nintendo more money. I've been scratching my head for a while wondering why they haven't done this, must be something holding them back.

I have many VC downloads on my Wii U. A metric tonne. But I would have most likely have re-dipped considering I could play them on the go. Yeah, I know there was some 3DS VC, but still ...

Sure, NSO might get shutdown one day, but it will just be replaced with another official way of playing the games on future hardware, so NSO disappearing is highly unlikely to mean these games are gone forever.

Your VC purchases on the other hand are tied to your 3DS, Wii or Wii U. What's going to happen when your hardware dies (and it will die one day)? Gone forever...

@larryisaman Infuriatingly the nature of digital licences means that they were never ours to keep in the first place.

This is my biggest disappointment on the switch. I’d love to just buy individual games I know I’ll play over and over again and just forget the subscription service since I don’t play online games. So a subscription to an online service that I don’t use just doesn’t cut it. It feels like a scam…..no it is a scam. We have an account system. We should have no problem simply transferring them over generation to generation. Heck we could just transfer them to a SD card and just copy them over to the next console of Nintendo’s what ever it may be.

It was a bit rough in its first year or two but by this point, I'm completely fine with the NSO system

@Inc
They are not tied to the system technically. Why not use the account system? Your own personalized digital gaming library! If it goes down to it why not just transfer the games on an SD card to a newer system?

NSO is better value especially shared among family and friends. Super cheap.

If I count all the virtual console games I bought for the Wii 3ds upgraded fees to the Wii u. It’s in the thousands.

@GameOtaku Thanks for pointing out the account system, this is one of the points I have been trying to point out for a good while now. I bought my first PSOne Classic for my PSP in 2010, and I still have access to it on PSP/PS3/Vita/Vita TV in its original form with no additional payment required because the purchase has been tied to my account, not my console.

Why Nintendo didn't make any one-time Virtual Console purchase carry over to future platforms even when they made the account system is just because they felt like they can charge for the same game multiple times. Or even better, keep people paying time and time again just to get access, not even own it, but access the license to play it.

@GameOtaku @Tuulenpoika

It’s a different business approach which you could prefer or not, but it can still not guarantee preservation of your library in the future.

Let’s say in a worst case scenario Nintendo goes bankrupt and your account they are tied to goes down. You would still lose all of your “purchased” games.

Preservation is just very tricky with digital content and technology in general. Even physical cartridges have an expiration date and will stop working sometime.

@8bit-Man
That’s why you should be able to back them up on a sd card or other device. They are digital games you purchased so why not? As long as Nintendo keeps putting retro emulators on their hardware you should never have to worry about them again. Heck even if they did hypothetically go bankrupt you could load them to a different emulator technically.

They could at least give us the option to buy out some of the games we want to keep.. How hard could that be?

@kkslider5552000 Great, and as soon as you stop paying you’ll have nothing!!!

Just to put my opinion about Virtual Console: I never liked Virtual Console since the Wii. I always thought it was overpriced.

That said at one point I really need to write a post about Wii VC's origins, and how it was developed, because I always see people going like "just put an emulator and a ROM it's easy" and I've seen enough information to tell that it was definitely not like that, and the post mentions that it was not as easy on previous systems, from a quote, mind you.

I have a passion for video games as a culture, and for me, discoverability is king, curiosity is precious. So when I see people buying "Arcade Archives VS Super Mario Bros." en masse my first thought isn't "people want VC", it is "people just want to buy Super Mario Bros. again".
When I hear anyone who just wants to buy the same games, to have access to the same games again, I cannot help but feel seriously sad about it, for the medium itself.
I really don't care about ownership. For me this isn't a proof of control from the consumer, especially for ANYTHING DIGITAL. It's just that it feels right but I don't think it is really grasping the point.

I don’t understand why Nintendo doesn’t add a purchase option to the retro games that Sony and Microsoft has? Even Capcom added the option for Resident Evil and Dino Crisis after they were initially behind a subscription paywall. Is there a chance a purchase option will be available on the Switch 2?

@OorWullie

The implication here seems to be that the issue resides not with the Nintendo Online Service, but rather with an individual's personal challenge. It is therefore recommended that the individual in question consider expanding their social circle. ☺️👍

@Liam_Doolan “…fans were able to individually buy and download first-party retro titles…”

There were many second- and third-party games available to buy too. Not only first-party, by a long shot.

I want to have old games on my Switch.
I hope they let you actually buy them before they end the subscription service.

I suppose if I was a complete moron I would want to pay $5+ per game instead of $20 a year for the whole service and all the games.

@GameOtaku I have many iOS games from back in the days that I cannot play anymore, because the current devices don’t support them any longer. Nice for me that I still “own” them and that they are included in my account, but what’s the point if I can’t play them anymore?

My point is that it can never be guaranteed digital owned content will last. You’re always dependent that they keep supporting it down the road. That’s not real ownership in my book.

@OorWullie I’m the same want to play Mario kart snes online with random people but I can’t.

I have 3 people on my friends list who mainly play PlayStation.

Never tried the games online but want to!

As someone who owns a Wii, Wii U and Switch it’s not really an issue for me. I had the full switch online for the last 2 years, mainly for my kids but it turned out only my son bothered and when we looked at the games he was playing we already had most of not all on previous consoles, so I’ve dropped it together far cheaper standard option (I like having access to Game Boy games which you can’t play on anything other than an original cart or 3DS VC).

I have modded my Wii, so I have the entire VC on two SD cards and my Wii U has plenty of VC games on it, so a VC on Switch isn’t really an issue. Whilst this isn’t the same as having physical copies of the games it is nice to know that they are always going to be there I some way so long as I look after the systems.

Where it’s going to sting a bit I think is for younger people who have the Switch as their first console; once the online inevitably shuts down there will be some who realise what they lost. However, I’m sure the service will continue on each new system in some way. Personally I don’t really like the idea of not owning things I pay for, but with certain services it’s now sadly an inevitability.

Most of my friends keep avoiding the NSO! If we can’t buy the games then it’s a Nintendo’s loss! This isn’t a such a terrible idea reactive for game preservation! These games will be gone once the NSO goes away! Nintendo needs to fix this with the next system.

Stop assuming NSO will go away. That's pure speculation.

I want to mention one thing about Nintendo's relative goodwill:
The Wii, DSi, 3DS and Wii U redownload features are still up, yes, even the Wii. You can still access the shop of each to do this, to this very day.

But I still don't entirely trust that personally. But that's something to take into account, and of course you should still be critical of Nintendo when they do something wrong.
Personally I never liked Virtual Console, but I do wish for y'all for Nintendo to offer the ability to buy the games. Just that, personally, I will not do it like that, ever. I care more about rewarding curiosity for the medium than caring about owning them.

Words cannot express how annoyed this makes me. A silver lining to all of this is that Nintendo's decision to go ahead with NSO probably ended up saving me more money in the long run. Yes, to this day I have not paid a single penny for NSO, and I intend to keep it that way.

In the Berenstein universe they got this. And why isn't Ogre Battle(s) on NSO yet maaaaaaan?

@Truegamer79 I definitely agree with most of your post, but I don't see how 4 bucks a month is overpriced.

Who wouldn't want to buy the same games again for the fourth time? Right?

I actually really enjoyed the Virtual Console on Wii. I've never been particularly enamored with the Switch's online paid subscription service and its offerings. Tried it on my wife's new Switch Lite and just found it meh.

I think I have a about 150 games in my Wii U Virtual Console library and it would have been amazing to see those carry across to Switch. But it does give me the incentive to keep my Wii U hooked up.

I've never been interested in NSO. Wish Nintendo had just continued the Virtual Console, but at least it gives me a reason to still use my Wii U to play all of the classic Nintendo titles.

@kkslider5552000 The math doesn't math. It's 65 a year here in Canada, and N64 were 10 each. Over a few years you're definitely losing with this subscription.

Switch subs is okay, for $20 is pretty cheap for cloud saves and some retro nintendo games. The switch plus expansion subs family plan is the real mvp though, if you can search 8 people for the switch plus expansion, you just need $10 peryear which is a steal for what it offered 😃

@Johnion You can add GBA games to the mix which are around $7 / $8 and it would take quite some time to catch up. Add also the price of NES, SNES and GB games. It seriously needs a lot of time to catch up in terms of pricing.

Also damn. A switch 1 related rumour! How refreshing.

Honestly, I don't care anymore. I can see the long-term value of NSO now. It was nice to own digitally purchased retro games, but re-buying them with each new system was a bit costly. Now we know NSO and everything on it will transfer to the next system.

They've made available obscure retro games I might not care for, but that gives the opportunity to try a game someone would never buy to try otherwise. I can just sort them away and ignore them so I can focus on my favorite games at the top.

I don't want to rent games, so, I would prefer Virtual Console, anyway.

@TKundNobody On GOG you can own digital games. 😎
GOG ››››› Steam

@Vyacheslav333 fair enough. Forgot about gog. But that’s unfortunately the only exception.

For people like me, the answer is simple. Had they included the option to buy games outright, I would have bought titles like 'Pokemon Snap' N64 & 'Ocarina of Time' and a handful of NES & SNES games. But with their subscription only option, I have spent £0 and will not subscribe.

The subscription model clearly works for many, and that's great, but it seems a missed opportunity (and revenue stream), to not have a buy option. Sony have their overly complicated PS+ subscription tiers, but you can avoid all that and buy games like 'Ridge Racer 2' PSP outright on the store.

They could have done that next to the switch online and made alot of money.
Switch online to play together and the virtual console for the nostalgia/ collection.

People who want to buy the individual games are in the minority and have serious main character syndrome if they forget how much people whined about $5 NES games. The larger gaming world was clamoring for this sort of plan. Netflix for Nintendo was something Jim Sterling bellowed about for years. And in terms of money, nothing piles up the cash like auto renew subscriptions everyone forgets about. That's why the world has pivoted towards them so bigly. Passive sales are king. Not to mention Nintendo completely sidestepped having to come up with a transfer program for previous VC purchases because now it's a 'new' system.

It's interesting how divided people are about NSO, even on a Nintendo enthusiast website like this. It seems like people either love it or hate it depending on if they find value in everything being offered.
Personally I resent being asked to pay just to play Mario Kart online. This used to be free, going right back to the original DS.
Having played all the retro games that I want already, the NSO offering feels like a rip off and has actually turned me off Nintendo to an extent.
Offering more options, including a stripped down NSO for people like me and the option to purchase retro games individually might go some way to remedying this.

So if this went ahead everyone would have to buy their libraries of games all over again.

No thanks. Glad they implemented NSO and if you don't like it, don't use it. Simples.

I'm very glad that they decided to go with the current apps. I got to play a lot of weird and interesting games that I absolutely would not have paid for individually. And it's nice to have them included with my NSO subscription instead of having to spend more money to buy them.

I bought some VC games on Wii. Then Wii U. I'd still play them on Switch, but not for a sub. I'd rather my Wii U digital library be downloadable, naturally not every game due to functionality, but NES/SNES VC games could be.

@LuigiBlood the problem is, we’re 7 years into this subscription.

People that really want these games are enthousiasts, and most of them have been subscribed for these 7 years.

Add the fact that we’re getting into another 7-8 years of this model soon and how they barely license any new games now, and it’s easy to see how this is not a good deal.

Even most casuals want to play a few games only.

Would buying n64/GBA games really be that expensive as people claim? Sony currently offer their PS2 and PSP games for only 10 buck, and that's without considering the fact they can go on sales. Sega also had Sega Genesis games at 1 dollar on Steam before delisting them and stating their interest in subscription services...

You also have doom 64, which is sold on Steam for 4.99 and it's usually 1.24 on sales. I think people is just gaslighting themselves into thinking they don't need to have options.

@TKundNobody 😔

NSO introduced me to NES games, I never owned a NES. For peanuts. I appreciate that.

@Bigfunnybird
But are you getting that value per year especially if you wanted the expansion pack for complete access? $50 a year adds up quick if you only play a handful of games. If you are just paying for online play then $20 a year still isn’t ideal but a reasonable price with the added bonus of a few games you may dabble with. It makes more sense to purchase individual titles of games you’ll play again and again than pay for goods and services yearly that you only play sporadically.

I was really angry when they killed the virtual console, but thanks to that I discovered SNES emulation and hacks on my laptop. Hacks are amazing and I would never be able to play those on the Virtual Console anyway.

Options are always better. Hopefully we soon find out the future plans for classic titles. The NSO paywall on classic titles bothers me. But I DO appreciate the aggressive approach to porting in these classics.

@GameOtaku Sure it would be nice, but allowing people to play Nintendo games on different devices or a PC probably isn’t going to happen. Perhaps even for the best?

It’s also worth noting you don’t technically own most digital content you pay for, but you are granted a license to use it. But that’s a different discussion altogether.

I don't have Internet where I live, can't get it either.
So, Switch Online only sucks for that and other reasons...

1: no internet, no games
2: online started for free then went to a pay model
3: you don't anything
4: tier based sucks
5: limiting controllers to online sucks.
6: prices can and will change for a sub, there's no reason for it.
7: if and WHEN it shuts down, all that money that was spent and you have nothing to show for it

I like the idea of both. Subscription because I'm already paying to play online, so trying out random retro games is a nice little perk.
But VC because then I can buy and own. If they ever price me out of the sub cost, I lose nothing because I'd own my favorites.

VC also means more third party drops, because they don't have to share a sub pool. They can sell em like they sell any other game. Might get more consoles like on Wii, too.

bring back the virtual console.
I have so many games on there.

@Ade117 Nintendo Switch does had older games from past consoles that you can purchase individually in addition to subscriptions. There are games from the NES such as Double Dragon, Contra, Mega Man II, and Castlevania, games from the Arcade such as Sunset Riders, Donkey Kong, Virtua Racing, and In the Hunt, games from the NeoGeo such as Metal Slug, Samurai Shodown V Special, Kizuna Encounter, and The King of Fighters 95, games from the Sega Genesis such as Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Gargoyles, Golden Axe II, and the Revenge of Shinobi, games from PC such as Quake, Baldur's Gate II, Civilization VI, and Portal, games from the Sega Saturn such as Cotton Boomerang, Wolf Fang, Tomb Raider, and Radiant Silvergun, games from the Super NES such as Aero the Acro-Bat, Zombies Ate My Neighbors, Clock Tower, and Wild Guns, games from the PS1 such as Grandia, Tomba, Legend of Mana, and Final Fantasy VII, games from the N64 such as Doom 64, Star Wars Episode 1: Racer, and Turok: Dinosaur Hunter, games from the Sega Dreamcast such as Street Fighter III: Third Strike, Power Stone, and Grandia 2, games from the Atari Jaguar such as Cybermorph, Missile Command 2000, and Tempest 2000, games from the Sega CD such as Sonic CD, Night Trap, and Corpse Killer, games from the Game Boy Advance such as Gekido: Kintaro's Revenge, Ninja Five-0, the Castlevania Advance Collection, and Double Dragon Advance, games from the PS2 such as Final Fantasy X, Onimusha, Devil May Cry 3, and Okami, games from the Xbox such as Tales of Vesperia, Cuphead, Doom 3, and Grounded, games from the PS3 such as Red Dead Redemption, Resident Evil 5, BlazBlue: Central Fiction, and Crysis 3, games from the GameCube such as Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Metroid Prime, and Baten Kaitos, games from the Nintendo DS such as the Etrian Odyssey Trilogy, Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX, and the Castlevania Dominus Collection, games from the 3DS such as The Alliance Alive, Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate, Resident Evil Revelations, and Rune Factory 4, games from the NeoGeo Pocket Color such as Fatal Fury: First Contact, SNK vs. Capcom: Match of the Millennium, Metal Slug: 2nd Mission, and Samurai Shodown! 2, games from the Atari 2600 such as Star Raider, Adventure, Frogs and Flies, and Centipede, games from the Intellivision Amico such as Dynablaster, Shark! Shark!, Astrosmash, and Rigid Force Redux, games from the Ouya such as TowerFall, Gunslugs 2, Ittle Dew, and SineMora, games from the PSP such as Lumines Remastered, Star Ocean: First Departure R, Tactics Ogre Reborn, and Crisis Core Reunion: Final Fantasy VII, games from the PS Vita such as Persona 4 Golden, Borderlands 2, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2, and Freedom Wars, games from the Wii such as No More Heroes 2, Skyward Sword, Tales of Graces F, and Fatal Frame 4, and games from the Wii U such as Xenoblade Chronicles X, Captain Toad, Bayonetta 2, and Fast RMX.

@Zaruboggan Great points!

I hope my Arcade Archive purchases carry forward to the next console. 🤞

I would have preferred both, the subscription model as it is with the option to purchase any of the titles separately

Not a fan of subscription services. Let me just buy my content I want and move on. I stopped paying for my NSO family plan 4 months ago. No one in my house was playing their Switch online (we have 4 of them in the house) and the few games I have played were all single player.

Even humouring the notion for a moment, I have a feeling that Switch VC wouldn't have seen nearly as many belated western releases of the less known oldies we've been getting on NSO every now and then (not to claim past VC iterations didn't have their own precedents, of course). And FWIW Virtual Console is technically thriving on Switch as it is - just under different names like "ACA" and "Sega Ages".

@DwaynesGames as standard account-tied digital Switch games, they're essentially confirmed to.

@8bit-Man
There is a law making waves of late in California making it so that if they use the language like buy or purchase that it would imply ownership of a digital copy.

Even with Switch Online’s success, will this concept be revived someday for a future console, something that can also be done where people can choose whether to get access to all games with NSO or buy the ones they like individually?

@PipeGuy64Bit Not necessarily.
Nintendo had been losing money on VC on every console after the Wii.
The Wii U makes sense, but even on the 3DS, which sold over 70 million systems, the amount of people actually buying the VC games were a TINY minority of the userbase.
Myself, I bought almost every single VC release on both consoles, but I'm very much an outlier in that regard.

RetroArch features better emulation than Nintendo's in-house solutions and you don't have to wait for the drip feed nonsense.

What sucks is knowing that these games eventually will disappear as the online service moves on. I'm fortunate enough that I own most of the original games which I am interested in. However, the portable version is infinitely convenient over beating old hardware into submission on modern TVs. I personally love the expansion pack, as I share it with friends so it's very inexpensive.

@Leej07
I’ve looked and looked and no official source says it was a loss. Even if it did lose some money how much are we talking? Companies complain if they lose a million when there earnings are in the multi billions so……

Besides it was their fault that consumers had to rebuy the games over and over instead of just transferring the games over that you purchased from wii to wiiu/3ds. Account system my friend.

Why can't we have nice things?

Maybe the N64 emulation wouldn't have sucked as much

I actually enjoy the subscription model in this format; not for modern games but rather for retro ports and vintage oddities, fun little things that I would never purchase outright.

My only gripe is that the online check-in comes at unexpected moments in the week, like say at a time when I may not have access to the internet. Those are times when I wish NSO could be more like Spotify, where I can take the subscription offline without being gated by a random check-in so often. Maybe conduct a fresh check-in if the app senses I'm trying to play with a different account, or something similar. But there's definitely room for improvement in that area.

@Inc
iirc only the wii had the games tied to the system since nintendo didnt have an account system with it wheres they added one eventually on wiiu and 3ds.

Even so i find hardware itself more reliable than how volatile licencing issues can be, there are still a large amount of games released on virtual console not available on NSO and a few not even available on switch at all, the subscription-only model also introduces further issue if games are ever delisted since it means even those who have them downloaded or on their account cannot access them anymore.

Digital still has its flaws and companies have a long way to go when it comes to preservation and/or future proofing (i feel like what GOG does is a massive step in the right direction and wish consoles would move closer towards that model) but i feel service models introduce their own issues on top of it.

That being said i am not opposed to the service model existing since it obviously works for a lot of people, i just wish there were other ways to play a lot of these games, and in some ways it is a blessing in disguise since it has opened the gates to things like the amazing castlevania collections we have lately and would have loved to see some of nintendos properties get that kind of treatment.

@nhSnork
i feel like sega ages and arcade archives if anything are a massive improvement over virtual console, does make me hope that the "console archives" trademark hamster made a while back results in something.

i would say the only flaws with ACA and sega ages is that they dont really cover Nintendo games (outside of some exceptions) since i would love to see something along those lines (or the amazing collections M2 have put out) applied to nintendos legacy content.

Well doesn’t that just stink?? Besides the lack of adding additional & more recent consoles like GameCube or Wii, the service still lacks purchase options for games you might want to “own”.
The monthly subscription we all have with Apple certainly doesn’t prevent you from making music or movie purchases so how about it Nintendo?? PLEASE ADD AN OPTION TO PURCHASE GAMES!! IF NOT NOW THEN WITH SWITCH 2! thanks 🙏

@JH64 Yes, but that's also true if my Wii or Wii U or 3DS ever breaks.

Either way, I was not going to own the vast, vast majority of games I have played on NSO (barring games I still have the actual cartridge for). I've mostly played N64 on NSO and yet only bought 4 N64 games on Wii and zero on Wii U, because it was too expensive to justify the cost over newer games. I don't buy games to justify the concept of ownership, I buy games to buy games and I paid money on this service because I wanted it.

I should also say I am pro (or at least not in any way anti) emulation regardless of availability, so I'm fine with people owning old games regardless of the company's intent.

@Johnion
Taking advantage of the family plan is an easy way to save money.

Kimishima said it, during the Switch's first year, when no one paid for subscriptions, that they were planning to make the system for retro games to be like a "rental first, own later if you want to" kinda thing. The idea was to put a selection of free games, that you were going to be able to play for a month, and then, in the case that you wanted to keep them, you were going to be able to buy those games, and then, other games would become available like that each month. I don't know why is that taken as a "rumor", when it was actual news 8 years ago. And, remember, the only way you were going to gain access to those classic games, was going to be if you first paid for the Switch Online subscription. The NSO apps we got at the end, are ten times better than that idea, since we actually got a wide range of selected games for multiple platforms, and we only have to pay a very low subscription price per year, to gain access to them. NIntendo changed how they deliver their legacy content, because it didn't work on the Wii U, and the Virtual Console was one of the console's key features, but people back then complained about having to pay for Super Mario Bros 3 for the nth time. With NSO, you don't have to do that anymore, since your progress in the game, will be carried over for use, in the next console as well.

@Truegamer79 well said & couldn’t agree more! Nintendo is the absolute worst with legacy content and maybe one day will see titles from GameCube and Wii? Even the older consoles the NSO games are posted at a snails pace and it’s a regular yawning festival. No purchase option is the salt in the wound. They’re so quick to go after hackers and pirates but have they stopped to ask themselves why?? And I refuse to upgrade my sub to add Genesis and N64 it’s just insulting!!
I also mentally hug my 5 modded nes/snes minis, my 4 Modded Genesis minis all modded with 6-8000 games each & my 3 OG Xbox modded systems modded with tens of thousands of games each because I could never and still refuse to wait on Nintendo! I’m long tired of it now from back in the Wii U days & I’ll be long dead by the time they finally get up to speed! 😆 🤷‍♂️☺️ thank goodness for Hamster, Atari, Sega, Namco and the loads of other classic games available on the eshop OUTSIDE of this crappy subscription service!

As someone who has 0 streaming services (Netflix, Disney +, etc.) I can say that as much as I would have loved VC in that I would "own" the games, it is still only a digital copy. Subscription services like NSO can remove games, yes, but having it digitally is not really any safer (as proven by Concord) and is far more costly. I will gladly drop my yearly payment of ~50 bucks for NSO+, thank you very much.

@Mgalens I have but a couple of them to date, but adding a whole autofilled minimap to Phantasy Star alone speaks for itself.

@Ultimapunch "NSO will still have to be shut down at some point."

Why? For what reason would they have to shut the whole service down? The end of civilisation?
Give me an actual reason.

I don't subscribe to NSO specifically because Nintendo offers their classic games through the subscription only. To me, it would be like rewarding them for that if I paid into it.

I would be much more likely to subscribe to NSO and play games online if they offered the ability to purchase classic games without the subscription.

The only good about NSO was the game variety of licenses not on previous Wii/Wii U and 3DS or the NES/SNES Classic edition features, over Wii U, otherwise no thanks to a sub service and all the other and licenses taken away quicker via a sub service then via a store closure.

I don't want a recurring payment pass on that. I'd rather seek out the games or emu them but seeing as I have no interest to in many of them and would 3rd parties that never make it onto the service anyway it's emu or waiting for a physical cart/disk eventually. So why would i sub to give them money for something the game selection isn't appealing for me at all or remasters/ports come later anyways. I just don't see a use for it myself really. I'm happy with my Wii U/3DS purchases, I didn't get all but I'm still fine with what I got.

They may not kill NSO and carrry it over to the Switch because why bother trying to re-add games again, that'd be stupid and a waste of time and resources this time if they do.

Wii/Wii U were different enough (and the Wii menu and those games then the fewer Wii U offerings or changes to the software either, what was done was done there) and how they went about it even if Wii CPU/Wii U was overclocked so besides the look being darker and the control scheme features it was a hit and miss of upgrade fee.

But if Switch 2 the NSO stuff is Switch 1 mode like DS mode in 3DS or GameCube mode on Wii or it's own extent then sure.

Or whatever Switch 2 enhancements if need be but otherwise it shouldn't be more work if they do they want to do this to themselves for no reason at all.

@BTB20 the same reason Nintendo shut down DS wifi, Wii wifi, 3ds wifi, Wii U wifi, the DSi shop, the Wii shop, the 3ds eshop, and the Wii U eshop. It costs money to keep those services running. And eventually Nintendo won’t keep paying to keep them up. If I can’t play Smash Bros Brawl on wifi right now, why on earth would you think NSO will stay up forever when no other Nintendo online service has?

@8bit-Man That argument is moot as it holds true for consoles as well - there is no guarantee games (either digital or physical) will be supported by newer devices. Not to mention older consoles eventually break down and supplies dry up - nothing lasts forever.

@Ultimapunch Unlike those other online services, NSO is not going to stay tied to the Switch. It's not a service that is intrinsically tied to the current Switch by it's very nature. It's going to continue on Switch 2, together with people's Nintendo accounts and everything. Even when your Switch at some point in the future in 10 or more years can't play games online anymore, NSO will still not be shut down.

I'm okay with NSO. Been emulating almost my entire internet life and I have no problems playing some classics on emu in the future. Only console that doesn't work so well for is 3DS, as I was one of 5 people who used 3D every time.

Virtual console would be great!

I think I'll just start with the core NES and SNES Mario and Zelda titles:

• Super Mario Bros.
• Super Mario Bros. 2
• Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
• Super Mario Bros. 3
• Super Mario World
• Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
• The Legend of Zelda
• Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
• The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

And at $10 per game it would only cost me $90!

Or I could get the NSO for over 4 years (which I need for online play anyway), and play 200 games.

On Virtual Console that would cost me $2,000.

You'd have to subscribe to NSO for 100 years to pay that much.

@MontyCircus Yup! Also why I wish Arcade Archives had a subscription service.

400 Arcade Archive Titles * $8/game = $3,200.

@8bit-Man Psychical games are technically also just a license.

Maybe both had worked?
But since we're probably not starting a new, but keeping this library moving to the next systeem, I'm REALLY happy we got it like this. Tried and played way more games than In would have other wise! (I remember about 20 bucks for badly emulated n64 games!)

@kkslider5552000 Imagine you are a 6 year old kid in 2020 and you get to play classic games like Super Mario Bros. 3 or Zelda ALttP in your Switch subscription app your parents pay for you.

Ten years later, in 2030, you want to play those games again on your Switch, just like you did when you were just a kid. And, oh, surprise, the Switch online services are long gone because the newly announced Switch 3 won't be backwards compatible because of specs shenanigans, and they will redo the whole monthly retro releases thing from scratch.

What will you do then if you really want to play those games again?

What will be of your Zelda ALttP save data you made while playing with your dad, looking together for the heart pieces, who already passed away because of a sudden illness? Better forget it.

I feel like I would be a lot more critical of the whole "not owning your games" thing if I didn't still have my Wii and Wii U (and 3DS for that matter) with my purchased games. Cuz NGL buying Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time for the fourth time does NOT sound appealing so I appreciate NSO letting me avoid that.

I like the value NSO offers. You get a lot for the monthly/yearly subscription. I do wish you could just buy the games you want however.

They ought to just offer both the subscription service and the option to buy games to keep if you want to.

Yea they really botched this one. They should've just offered it and I would've bought em all for the 3rd/4th time.

@Zenibeans I think it’s just that they want that constant flow of revenue, but I’d argue that the classic games are not the main draw for the service and most people who pay for it are specifically paying to play games online and the NES/SNES/Game Boy games are a bonus. I think they’d still have plenty of people subscribing as well as buying games individually if it were an option- I know I would be. And as for expansion pass, I’m not going to pay that extra £15 but I would happily pay £10 here and there for the various N64 and GBA games so they’re losing money out of me on that end (and I’m sure there are many people who feel the same way). Either way I’d rather see more unique online content like Tetris 99 to incentivize subscribing than more classic games.

@RadioHedgeFund True, but it’s still a greater sense of ownership than a subscription. I can still go back to my Wii from 2006 and download all the VC games I bought during that era and that was nearly 20 years ago…I can’t imagine the online service as we know it today will still be the same in 20 years.

Figured it was getting costly to develop. I remember, it was either a story or video, about how every VC release Nintendo basically was allocating their own studio resources to do it. Even if it was a 3rd party release. I would still love to have an option to buy them, so I hope an evolution of series will include purchases of some kind. Or Nintendo could finally release some kind of NES, SNES and N64 pack; I’ll take a Mario All-Stars re-release or similar.

Boo! One of the reasons I didn't go in on a Switch right away was because it was clear they had no intention of migrating the dozens of VC purchases (one of the reasons I got a Wii in the first place) I'd made over the previous decade.

Specs can (most of the time) be overcome — what I think you'll likely find being the biggest problem is licensing/rights shenanigans impeding games being reissued on modern gen consoles, often indefinitely. We've been seeing that kind of thing since the PS360 era, and it's such a bummer.

@electrolite77 Why did Microsoft shut down the xbox live servers for the original xbox then? People had to pay to use them. Yet the servers were shut down regardless. Any online service has a shelf life. It will shut down eventually. We have so many examples of exactly that happening.

@fenlix Can you please eleborate on that? I’ve checked the user agreement of various retro devices and games, but I can’t seem to find anything about that being the case back in the day.

As for modern gaming, I suppose you’re right. True ownership doesn’t exist anymore. And with physical copies often relying on additional downloads and patches, those lines are fading too.

@Olmectron Making up a dying Dad in order to justify your take is weird.

Like what are you arguing against, I said VC should still exist. Arguing against people who broadly agree with you is counterintuitive to making an argument.

Maybe YOU should think about people who just want to play a good variety of games and not have to pay as much in order to take a chance on old games they might not like.

@DwaynesGames lol that’s hilarious! Totally understand what you’re saying but those 400 hamster titles hit Switch over an almost 8 year span so it’s not like we’re laying out $3200 in one shot. And while I buy a ton of them, there’s also a ton I have little to no interest in. Lastly, even though it’s not as often as we’d all like, there’s the occasional Hamster sale which I always look out for. 😊

@joey302 Right. And it appears the Arcade Archive discounts are determined by the companies that own the ROMs, not by Hamster.

I agree! I have wanted to see that too. Even after scooping up dozens of AA releases, and most of the Neo Geo games I'm interested in, I would still gladly subscribe!

And they're said to be expanding to a "Console Archives" series!

@Olmectron I think it’s fair to say that the chances of the scenario you just painted happening is slim to zero, and I doubt Nintendo would base their business model around such scenarios playing out. That dead dad bit was a bit odd too.

@DwaynesGames Namco and Taito games seem to be the ones that go on sale most yes. And some Neo geo games

I don’t subscribe to the service. I despise monthly fees. Glad it’s there for people who want it, but if they would have released collections of their old games on cartridge for those who want to own them I likely would have bought every collection.