Sword And Shield Are Now The Best-Selling Pokémon Games Since Gold And Silver

It's just a shame they aren't as good as R/B & G/S.

I have to admit I've loved my time with Sword. I haven't played one since the Diamond One on DS but gave Sword a go and loved it. Since then I've gone back to play Ultra sun and X as well.
I see why some disliked the more streamlined approach but it was so much more fun for me to actually play. No randomised battles... sign me up. Looking forward to the Crown Tundra when it comes out!

@Tuulenpoika

People never stop saying it. Over and over and over and ......

Move on.

Another proof that sales =/= quality

People can mock this game, call it low quality, say that people are terrible for buying it. But this shows that such childish rants get you nowhere. The "Backlash" this game received early on was literally for nothing. Maybe next time you'll learn that you catch more flies with honey, than vinegar.

@TheFullAndy,

They will of course never ever stop, but it;s up to them, I think these new games are great and it seems like a lot of people agree.

@jump you mean, because R&B had the full national dex at the time? Or...

Sword and Shield is the best Pokemon game so far. Change my mind.

@mariomaster96,

What proof?, the games reviews and sales are fine, it's does seem to be only a minority of fans that feel differently, so how can this be proof exactly?.

@Tuulenpoika Yet the irony is that, barring transferring Pokémon, base Sword and Shield have as much content, if not more, than Red and Blue, Ruby and Sapphire, Diamond and Pearl, Black and White (arguably), X and Y, and Sun and Moon. Max Raids and their events are technically far more evergreen than anything else in those games too, as they can continually cycle in new events to make update Pokémon more widely available and give away special Pokémon, like this new Pikachu event that has a Shiny Pikachu Raid in it. People just like to toast this game simply because no National Dex.

@Friendly Oh that's easy, Pokemon RSE Pokemon DPPt, Pokemon HGSS, Pokemon BW/B2W2

Grab some popcorn or candies for lamentation of Pokemon Sword / Shield.

@Tuulenpoika,

Or simply more proof that the core fans are out of touch with what the mass majority of Pokemon fans really want.

@johnvboy

I don't even play Pokemon games but the amount of whining by the tiny vocal minority has me rooting for the games lol

@Anti-Matter,

You will be in for a treat fella.

@TheFullAndy,

So true, but I was like them expecting the worst from these games, but found myself enjoying them.

@Anti-Matter No lamentations for me. Sword and Shield are the best games since Black 2 and White 2, and I'll stand on that hill till I die.

@mariomaster96 why?

I think that, as with all of the Pokémon games, the story element leaves a lot to be desired. But this never bothered me - I just like collecting the Pokémon and seeing what they evolve into.

Sword/Shield were definitely the easiest games I have played in the series, but again that never impacted my enjoyment of 'Oooh, I can't wait to see if this evolves', (I didn't play a couple of the gens so there are still older Pokémon I'm unfamiliar with) so it didn't really matter to me. I still enjoyed them. I felt like a kid on Christmas waiting for the delivery that morning and then playing all day!

@Friendly Why do I have to change your mind?

@johnvboy As in recycled content, content locked behind additional paywalls and external Pokemon storing and trading systems with annual fees?

Oh well Quality is not required anymore and this proves it :3

@Shepdawg1 Max Raid battles aren't evergreen content, they're just padding. You could already get those Pokemon without the events, so it really doesn't add anything of substance, it just provides the illusion of more content to waste time. DP and BW definitely had more content than SwSh's base game, and Platinum, HGSS, and BW2 definitely had more content than SwSh + DLC. They had more Pokemon to catch. They had actual sidequests and extra features (things like Contests, Secret Bases, Battle Frontier, etc.). The map design was more detailed and actually required you to think. About the only things SwSh does better than those games is being in 3D and having large, open spaces, other than that it's a downgrade in almost every way.

I don't think any pokemon game has more to bring you back than Sword/Shield. Between DLC, Mark hunting, shiny hunting, Battle Tower, constantly cycling raid events and a super easy to access online battle system where you can pretty much customise your pokemon's IVs, moves etc any way you want, I've actually found myself coming back to my same Pokemon Sword save file over and over again. Something I've never done in a pokemon game before.

Also max raids being padding I would disagree with. Yes you can get the same pokemon in the wild area, but it's also a good way to get version exclusives and trade-evolution only pokemon without needing another version of the game. When I played Pokemon Sword, I managed to get to a point where I was only missing 1 pokemon that I needed help with. That was the version exclusive legendary. All other pokemon were caught either through the wild area or through max raids at really good IVs ready to battle.

They're not perfect by any means, and I still have my fair share of issues about the game (like the pokemon following you feature, and a bit about the wild area are among some of them) but honestly the game is fun.

If you're salty about the lack of pokemon who cares? Less is better in this case. There's over 800 pokemon and somehow in gens 6 and 7 everyone used the same 10. Now at least there's variety in the battle scene, and less pokemon means some people can actually complete the dex now and will have an easier time moving forward.

if you're salty about Pokemon Home costing money well so does pokemon bank. Granted bank is cheaper but at the end of the day it's a once a year thing that you don't really need, it's just for people bringing pokemon from previous gens to next gen or want to store 3000+ pokemon for whatever reason.

Story? Please it's a pokemon game. The story is never amazing, it's alright in this one but I highly doubt they'll ever be able to pull off something as good as B/Ws story again (they tried in B2/W2 and it just sucked). As for being easy, there's so many things you can do to make it more challenging like doing a nuzlocke or beating the game with a pokemon that's weaker stat-wise, imposing level-limits, only using certain types/moves etc.

@Tuulenpoika,

Get it you don't like them, but it's not the end of the world it others do not share your views, if I did not like them I would just move onto something else.

Pokemon Sword/Shield was alright, but underwhelming. It just goes to show that Pokemon on the Switch was always going to sell regardless of quality.

@johnvboy The mass majority Pokemon fans are just buying the game because it has "Pokemon" on the cover. That's not being "out of touch", that's actually being a smart consumer and analyzing whether or not you're actually getting a fair deal for what you're paying for. If anything the mass majority is out of touch and they seriously need to educated on fair value so they don't keep allowing themselves to be taken advantage of by lazy corporations like Game Freak/TPC that keep putting out shoddy products. Capitalism is supposed to work by having companies compete with each other to provide a superior product and there's nothing really "superior" about Pokemon.

@johnvboy It isn't the end of the world, I simply answered your question.

I'd have a whole lot to criticize these games, their business practices and their more blind fans for, but many others have already done so, so I guess I could just leave it at that.

But problems don't go away by ignoring them.

@johnvboy You obviously have not seen unique and important game franchises end up destroyed by extreme casualization and dollar chasing. Fallout, Pokemon, Paper Mario, Mario Party, etc.

You need to stop being condescending towards people sharing their valid opinions on an open forum. It’s wrong.

@Tuulenpoika,

I get your points it's that I do not agree with them, the game has lots of content and the wild areas are a great addition, the Pokemon Home feature has to come with a cost, however it's very small.

RIP Pokémon. From here on out, we're gonna get half-assed efforts, the full National Dex will either never come back, or returning monsters will be locked behind a paywall, and that stupid computer mouse will keep showing up just to mock everyone. All because these games outsold what many consider to be the best games in the series.

@-Juice-,

I have seen them all fella, I have been gaming since the NES, but just do not look at everything from the negative point of view.

@KayFiOS,

Not true, but the sales have to indicate that most are more than happy with the games, of course the older Pokemon core audience that has grown up with the series will not be happy, but in all honesty they were never going to be so.

@johnvboy Says the person treating everyone with a differing opinion or with criticisms in a condescending manner. In every Pokemon article, you’re always acting like this. It’s not okay, and you need to stop acting like an attack dog against valid criticism and disappointment.

@-Juice- Pokemon is beyond any defence at this point, next gen it might just go sit in the corner with the likes of FiFA and other yearly lazy outings xD

I had fun with the game but its not has good as the others so i give it 6/10

@Bliquid

It is a videogame mate.

Im happy the games sold well as I found SwSh to be really fun. It’s currently my second most played game on Switch (behind only BotW). I’ve really enjoyed co-op max raids, the main adventure, & roaming the Wild Area trying to complete my Pokedex. I recently purchased the DLC & that has pulled me back in again.

Is the game perfect? No. I’m not a fan of experience share, being able to swap Pokemon away from the PC and the animations/graphics could be better but none of those things detracted from the FUN of the game...and that’s WHY I play games, to have fun.

So people can say what they want about the sales figures & those who bought these games: “they are sheep, blind followers, uneducated/uncultured masses” but Pokemon SwSh EARNED it’s 18+ million in sales by being a FUN game.

That's nice to hear. It also once again shows that the people complaining on the internet are just a vocial minority as always. The majority of people are just playing and enjoying games instead of endlessly complaining.

@-Juice- I wonder if you even recognise the irony in your comments?

@MajinSoul Proof that people will buy anything with the Pokémon label, regardless of its quality, or lack thereof!

I enjoyed my time with sword but for me usum are the games to beat! They had so much freaking content plus z moves AND megas!

@johnvboy Sales indicate that people were excited to buy the game, they are not an indication of happiness after the fact! I’ve bought stuff and been unhappy with it, but it still adds to their sales figures!

The feeling I got when playing red for the first time is among the best of all my gaming memories. They nailed everything. The challenge was so good. That is what kills the current gen for me. it’s just to easy. The graphics are not my greatest problem. Look at what Red and Blue could offer on very limited hardware.

I enjoyed Shield, though I hated the starters, and I enjoyed the X starters. Like... a Soccer Rabbit?! WTF!? Also making Rillaboom like a monkey with dreadlocks... how did nobody at Nintendo fo America say, "Maybe let's not take something associated with black people... and give it to a monkey."

Still though, I ditched my starter and used a Yamper instead, and my party sailed through the game. It was fun, but honestly not nearly as good as some other games in it's price range. (Like DQ11 or Breath of the Wild or Odyssey.)

Pokemon is one of those rare Nintendo franchises that is actually pretty poor quality. I'm not sure why a game that sells as much as Pokemon does is always so budget, I suspect maybe it's because they have to pay to create the anime? Or maybe just because Game Freak loves money and has figured out how to make it without investing in their games.

I am hoping that the fact that the Isle of Armour was basically one area, that the next Pokemon game will consist of something more like 8 Isle of Armours just stitched together. They could even pepper in some trainers who would battle you in these open areas. (Maybe even GASP have them scale toward your party's levels.)

It's a shame that they're so invested in just using the same 3D engine they had on the 3DS, because I'd LOVE to see a Pokemon game where you run through fields and locations that look more like they were developed by Monolith Soft. (Was super meh on Xenoblade 2's gameplay loop but the world looked stunning.)

Also I really wish that they'd work with Bandi or somebody and make the Pokemon act more like they're real monsters. The fact that every time Cinderace attacks he's just kicking the air and farting out a fireball is unforgiveable. Each Pokemon should have like 4-5 different attack poses to keep the game from feeling cheap.

The Pokémon community simply deserves the decadence.

I wish people would understand that then complaints against Sw/Sh were not only due to dexit. That was only the tip of the iceberg. The quality of the game, veing lied to for why Pokémon were cut, animations being stuff, less challenge, lack of post game, your older Pokémon being held ransom until you paid extra cash to trade them over but you still can't use all of them because some are still cut for no reason, etc.

THAT'S what we were upset out. People saying it was only about dexit just prove that they were never listening.

Honestly I was kinda tired of the franchise with how stagnant it was and traded in pokemon sword and all my other pokemon games in to get games from franchises i've known but never tried and i don't regret and this is coming from a 12 year old even kids know how much stagnant this franchise has become although i'm still happy for the people who enjoy the game i was just so washed out of playing this game cause beilieve it or not i have spent 500 hours on pokemon sword but if i ever played it again i'd be bored outta my mind

@Ajent Though my comments may sound condescending, they are not intended to be. Would you agree that trying to silence criticism by overwhelming a comment section is morally wrong?

@TG16_IS_BAE That's what people keep claiming, yet there is no proof for that. By that logic, all the spinoffs would be best-sellers aswell but a quick glance at games like Pokken Tournament, Pokemon Rumble, etc. will show you that a Pokemon label is not enough for people to go out and buy a game. Also, the lack of quality in Sword and Shield is pretty much in line with the rest of the mainline games

@Kalmaro We do listen. We just don't like it when you keep throwing insults at us for liking these games, or insulting reviewers who gave what could be considered a positive score. Remember back in November when you called the Nintendo Life staff "shills"? After that, I consider any & all opinions you had afterward completely worthless and not worth my time. There are far more constructive manners to provide criticism and that was not one of them. There's a good reason why most of you are being ignored after all.

@TG16_IS_BAE,

True, but it's not an indication people are unhappy either, the only views we have to go on are the opinions of the internet posting minorities, which themselves are split on the whole issue.

@-Juice- hmmm... I’m not sure that simply overwhelming a comments section could accomplish that on its own. If someone (wink, wink...) was trying to tell another person not to comment because they disagreed with their opinion, then that could be considered as an attempt to silence someone. That could be considered wrong.

Good job @johnvboy wasn’t doing that ‘ey! I have seen others doing it though.

@Hobbesyall,

In your own personal opinion, I like it as a lot of others do, so who is right or wrong?.

@johnvboy I’m not sure brushing people off by calling them a vocal minority is a good thing, especially when the complaints they are levying are SwSh are valid.

@TophatDragoneye,

Always been the case, the people who do not like there games refuse to listen or believe any positives, while at the same time suggesting everyone is either being dismissive of their issues, or simply not listening to them.

Quickly scanning the comments, I see "blind fans," "shoddy," "sales =/= quality," and everyone's favorite bogey-word, "paywall."

So, boys, when's the march on Game Freak's headquarters?

@MajinSoul What proof? 2 games out of 20? That’s called cherry picking, not proof.

@TG16_IS_BAE,

It's the truth though, does not mean their concerns are not valid on a personal level, or that they should not voice them, but the complainers are in the minority.

@Dr_Corndog You get bonus points for using my best friends chat handle, or at least a variation of it 😀

@johnvboy It’s “a” truth, people need to embrace the fact that their perceptions of the world are not “the” truth, but a portion of a greater whole. You’re also trying to confirm a majority/minority position without sufficient data. You’re assuming that the people who are complaining are in the minority because it’s popular on gaming sites to call them that to brush them off.

Good to hear! I've sunk 100hrs into Sword. The most I've played a Pkmn game since gen 3 or 5. Genuinely enjoyed my time with the base game & DLC, looking forward to Tundra!

@Ajent You are misrepresenting my comments. Correcting someone on their behavior in regards to how they comment is not the same as rooting out their opinion all together.

If our dear friend here had simply left a comment stating his opinion as others do, that would not be morally questionable. The problem is that he is actively being combative towards people who disagree with him. This whole comment section is filled with that.

Would you agree that it is a moral obligation to help people correct behavior? I would think you would, considering that you also called me out on what you perceived to be hypocrisy (despite it being more nuanced than that).

Honestly the worst "first party" game on Switch.

@TophatDragoneye Define 'you', because I don't remember saying that and I don't see anyone doing that here. I'm also not throwing insults and I don't see many people against the game throwing insults at the gamers either. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say I'm happy for people who bought the game and enjoyed what they purchased. I just don't like the direction the games are going.

I'm sure a few have but they are in the minority.

@-Juice- I won't even get started on the perennial fan misappropriation and abuse of terms like "criticism" again, but I suspect you haven't experienced being on the receiving end of a true "attack dog" yet. Genuinely treating fans as toxic obscene trash of a mentality and dancing on the bones of any that perish to the respective franchises' perseverance is MY turf. 😉

@-Juice- I would agree, and you’re right, it is more nuanced. @johnvboy ‘s comments are mostly in reply to people who are challenging his earlier comments though. What you see as combative could also be seen as a simple difference of opinion (with the pre-requisite ‘internet enabled attitude’).

To be fair, you seem like a decent person and I was just messing with you. I like playing ‘devil’s advocate’ every now and then. No hard feelings.

They aren't the greatest of Pokemon games. I found Shield enjoyable on the level that it allowed me to do the core Pokemon stuff i.e battle and catch Pokemon. But in comparison to past titles, it was clearly rushed and undercooked. That's the cut Pokedex aside. The Isle of Armor DLC kind of helped.

But I don't fault or criticize anyone who did find complete enjoyment out of it. I still consider myself a Pokemon fan and am not yet at the point of abandoning the series. Especially now that we have Snap 2 on the way. I do hope that Game Freak takes the criticism to heart and doesn't rest on the fact that these games sold well as a sign to do this again

@TG16_IS_BAE You claim anything with a Pokemon label sells. To disprove this claim, it is enough to show one game with the Pokemon label on it that didn't sell well. That's not cherry picking, that's how Q.E.D. works. Or maybe you actually don't think people will buy anything with a Pokemon label on it and were just overexaggerating in order to push your viewpoint

I look forward to fans defending the next games, where literally only charizard and pikachu are usable.

"It's pokemon, so it's still fun!"

I enjoyed Sword and am looking forward to the DLC later this year.

It is a fine game. Not as good as red/blue but still a solid game.

Glad it's been selling so well, I had a great time with it.
Honestly, I don't see why people complain so much, the overall quality of the Pokémon games was never that great.
I found myself playing the last main line titles due to my childhood nostalgia. For me, this was easily the best mainline title in the last 15 years.
It help it came right after Sun & Moon, oh, that was just tragic.

Honestly I agree with the notion that people buy it purely based on the title being Pokemon. The majority of my friends who bought the game did so because it was Pokemon, but they were also fairly happy with it, too. I have another friend looking to buy a Switch and one of their top priorities is Sword and Shield. Even knowing what I know about the game, I myself have debated buying the game numerous times simply because it's Pokemon. There's also a degree of peer pressure involved with Pokemon games, as these are social games that are vastly more fun when played with others. The more people buy Pokemon Sword and Shield, the more people will want them so they can play it too. This is what brought me into the Pokemon fold in the first place. I saw kids are school playing it and I got into it. Then my friends wanted to play it. Now it's the same thing all over again, all of my friends are playing it and I'm finding myself more and more likely to buy a copy and join them.

If Pokemon has taught me one thing, it's that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

@korosanbo Yes l would recommend trying Shield and Sword because they're more closer to real Pokèmon games. Let's go Pikachu and Eevee aren't very great, l think Nintendo made that game more easy for young ones.

Guess that's it for Pokemon. Now they know they can half ass literally everything about the game (story, world, roster, features) and suffer no consequences.

Anyways I'm a real Pokemon fan who played many of the old games and l just want to say Sword/Shield are going to be my lowest rating out of Pokèmon games, 5/10. l say it's not the greatest Pokèmon game and not very a finish game until Nintendo charge you a lot of money to have a real complete Pokèmon game which yes l'm pointing out at the DLC. Another problem the game is too easy for me and story puts me to sleep which is normal until Sun&Moon and the places in the game aren't very amazing. But people should be quiet about graphics in the game, here is the thing, low graphics in Pokèmon games is a style. So understand that. Just take a look at X&Y and Sun&Moon, it's a normal style.
back off haters who doesn't like my opinion

That's sad. I guess we'll never get a big budget pokemon game.

@-Juice- ,

Never said there was no validity to your or others arguments, but they are yours and others personal opinions, just like mine are that you are wrong.

@TG16_IS_BAE,

Well in that case the games have sold very well if the majority of fans did not like them.

@UmbreonsPapa,

Very true the games are not perfect whatever that equates to in general video game terms, but on the whole I have enjoyed the game, your comments are the perfect way to debate this issue.

The comments that simply state the games are no good, and anybody that buys them have low standards are unhelpful.

@Bliquid

Mate.

So Sword and Shield are the best-selling games since Dexit I, but they came out after Dexit II. Talk about ironic.

I actually think mechanically shsh are great, but the games launched completely unfinished. The first part of the expansion helped a lot and the second probably will make it feel like a complete game. Which means it took a year for the game to get up to snuff and is 30 bucks more expend than it should be. And the animations are still underwhelming.

@johnvboy You make a great point about the idea of whatever perfect means and maybe that was lazy on my part to phrase my point that way.

I guess what I am really trying to say that there were some decisions made that seemed pretty odd in the sense that something could have been done differently and they could have catered to probably all of its audience.

I enjoyed Sword and Shield. Some parts were certainly underwhelming, but other parts were nice improvements to the series.

@patbacknitro18 Exactly, that was my thought when I saw these numbers. Online commenters seem to think their rants (valid or not) are representative of the overall public reception, but you can't argue with numbers. This shows many million people at the very least didn't care as much as they did.

I think it’s funny that people will attack and criticize you for leaving a bad review. Why can’t I have my opinion? Why are people such douchebags?

It’s kinda sad for the developers. I haven’t played the game myself but seeing friends play and watching reviews it looks like the game was rushed/ unfinished and for future games devs are probably going to have limited time to make new Pokémon games.

Graphically below others Nintendo first party
Lacking in animation
Also the devs lied to the fans and that is never ok
The story seems like everything happens offscreen (which is something you do when you don’t have budget)

And the games seems to have real qualities and that just makes it more frustrating cause with more time it might have been a really great game. Now it’s a half-step for the franchise who don’t really evolve and keep making the same game over and over and over

Also everyone should respect others opinions whether your like the game or not

@TheFullAndy Yeah just accept lesser quality products like a good little sheep. Don't bother asking for your money's worth from a franchise that rakes in billions.

@Timmytron

Don't even play Pokemon games bud, but watching the like of you constantly crying gives me great entertainment!

@UmbreonsPapa,

The game has issues and even though I have enjoyed it, there were things that could have been done better, but overall it's a solid platform for the next game.

@Kalmaro Pardon the late reply, I had other matters to attend to. Anyway, here's the comment in question I was referring to: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/11/of_course_pokemon_sword_and_shield_is_getting_review-bombed#comment5331947

And as for 'you', I'm referring to several people (with Timmytron above joining the ranks of said people), who makes criticisms of the games while also attacking owners of the game by saying 'they now want lesser quality games', or 'they're nothing but toddlers' just to give a few examples. It's tiresome and predictable.

The fact is if so many people were dissatisfied with the Sword & Shield, the sales numbers would've been so much lower than it is.

@TG16_IS_BAE It's a good name. Small wonder your friend stole it.

@TophatDragoneye Well hold on, I never called them shills, I asked why they were acting as if their opinion was law because they were pushing their opinion on the game as fact. I could care less what their opinion of the game is. It was how they were expressing it that got on my nerves. The "are you journalists or shills" comment came from that context, I don't think they are actual shills. I do think the author had a very high opinion of themself.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/11/random_now_pokemon_sword_and_shield_haters_are_asking_the_us_president_to_halt_sales_of_the_game

This is the article I was thinking about when I made that post. I even commented on it then here

Many people were upset about the changes made. It just happens that many more people either didn't care or were ignorant of what was happening because they just aren't in the loop.

@Kalmaro

Or people like me who just find it hilarious how grown adults are throwing hissy fits because games designed for kids aren't to their liking.

@TheFullAndy the games aren't designed for everyone?

@Kalmaro

They are designed mainly for kids, they always have been.

Even if they weren't it still doesn't excuse the hissy fits by adults.

@TheFullAndy Oh no, I don't think anyone should be throwing fits over the game, I just wouldn't say it's a kids game. Pokémon is for everyone!

@Kalmaro

All Nintendo games are for everyone, but some games definitely lean more towards the younger demographic and I would say Pokemon is one of those.

@TophatDragoneye "Anything you have to say is worthless because some other people with similar opinions to yours act rude sometimes" is always a great rebuttal.

@johnvboy I agree. I did my share of griping. But there was a lot good to find in this generation of games. I liked a good chunk of the new Pokemon. The Wild Area, as it was, is a great starting point to potentially being something special with more development time. I also liked the way Gyms were constructed.

I also want them to go further with their being version exclusives. Going past different available Pokemon with game-specific gyms was a start. But I want to see them push that idea a lot further

Given Sword/Shield hasn't gotten all of its content yet, I think it'll easily overtake Gold/Silver in sales.

@TheFullAndy perhaps, it's certainly more kid friendly, they removed a lot of the challenge the previous games had so that's something.

Well I wonder if the hate train will continue

I loved the games, have not dived into the dlc though.

I do wish the pokemon company would finally leverage their multi-media emporium and add voice acting to these games, and cut scenes that looked more anime-style.

I wonder if Gamefreak will increase the development time of future Pokémon games considering that the lack of a new installment this year looks to be helping elevate this one to extreme success.

I think Sword and Shield will overtake Gold and Silver in terms of sales. I'm sure there has been a lot more advertising with Nintendo games since the Switch came out and that will no doubt help.

Well that settles it. The series as it once was is dead now, and will never have a reason to improve. They’ll never have a reason to hire more people than their small barebones team. They’ll never have a reason to polish their games and add back content that they have slowly cut out more and more over the years. Why should they have a reason to change anything now? Everyone has given them more than enough money to justify continuing down their current course.

Really really sad. I feel bad for all the kids who's first experience to pokemon is this

That’s enough internet for me today.

Ironically, I haven't caved on buying Pokemon Sword/Shield yet, but I'm absolutely loving this generation's anime and merchandising (Pokemon Power of Us, Pokemon 2019/Journeys, Twilight Wings) and every episode I watch makes me want to dip into the games.

This is the first time I've missed a main game from a whole generation, so I will probably cave soon after the second DLC drops.

Even though this probably will never happen, a small part of me hopes that Sword/Shield and the season pass will be bundled together for $70-80~ to fill out the Christmas lineup.

@ZeldaNX red and blue are mid and super easy lol your nostalgia goggles are clouding it because honestly gen 1 is somehow WORSE than sword and shield

@Ulysses i definitely agree there. the games aren't very good imo but everything surrounding it is the best it's ever been

@pip_muzz I am in the same boat. I skipped all the 3DS ones and the Sword and Shield seems like a new coat of fresh paint. When looking back at the 3DS ones, I can see why people are saying there is not much in progress. But hey, Game Freak delivers and usually makes the upcoming games tie in nicely with the current ones.

@Braok Oh yeah, Red and Blue can not be enjoyed as much as they used to. People that still say that are thinking back of the joy and excitement of getting a new Nintendo IP and not knowing how the system really works. Younger generations will say the same about their first jump into the series (i.e. Ruby and Sapphire).

I would like Game Freak to fix the type advantage so that a fire type does not always get knocked out by a water gun. I know that the held items help a bit with that.

@Dremp As convenient as it is to get some version exclusives and such without trading, it's still padding. Fact of the matter is it's just Pokemon that were already programmed into the game that they're making more common, it's not adding anything, it's just compensating for mechanics that slow down the process of completing your Dex. Hence, padding.

As for the lack of Pokemon, keep in mind that not everyone wants the Pokemon for competitive and you still tend to see the same several Pokemon in competitive anyway just because of the nature of competitive, some Pokemon are simply more useful than others in that sphere. There are many other reasons why the lack of Pokemon hurts such as your favorite Pokemon not making the cut or wanting to have more Pokemon to collect for content purposes.

Bank costs money as well, but the complaints apply to Bank as well because the transfer methods before Bank were free and there's not much reason to lock transfers behind a paywall, just restrict people to transferring 1 box at a time or something on the free plan. Since Home actually has a free plan and isn't doing this, it's blatantly obvious that they're just restricting transfers as a way to force people to buy the paid plan, so it's a cash grab.

Again, my main issue is the lack of extra content and sidequests. Past games had very deep and lengthy facilities and mechanics that formed entire secondary goals in the game such as completing the Contests, challenging the Battle Frontier, building up Join Avenue, etc. SwSh's sidequests are more shallow and repetitive and aren't quite on the same level. That and Dexit are the biggest reasons why SwSh stands out as lacking content.

@MysteryCupofJoe Oh yeah, I definitely get it. Diamond was the first video game I ever owned, so I remember it very fondly even when everyone agrees that Diamond and Pearl were horribly slow. It influenced so many aspects about me, from the games I play to the music I like.
Platinum is fantastic, though. Say what you will, I absolutely consider Pokémon Platinum a modern classic, up there with The World Ends With You, Xenoblade and Persona 4. I still replay Gen 4 every year or so, and almost every single time it's been Platinum. I have hope that the remakes will live up to the originals, though considering the musical direction Sword and Shield took, it isn't very likely.

@DavidMac - "Also making Rillaboom like a monkey with dreadlocks."
Um, have you seen Rillaboom? Its hair is just one big bush, nothing even close to dreadlocks (outside maybe the one strand that hangs over his face).

Honestly, it's kinda sad (though not surprising) to see all the 'Pokemon is doomed' comments just because the latest entries are selling well. All the sales do is re-affirm that what the majority of purchasers (i.e. kids and casual gamers) value in a pokemon game is different from the hard-core audience; namely, accessibility and fun. And as far as those go (accessibility especially), Sword/Shield do a pretty good job, all things considered (hence its good sales).

I bought the game used and played trough it. Am I now allowed to share my problems about the game... or do I count as "a whiner" according to some people here?

The discourse surrounding this game has devolved into taunting and namecalling without an objective analysis of the game's merits. There are areas in which it excels tremendously (such as with Gym Battles and various quality of life improvements) and fails miserably (like with the Y-Comm, visual presentation, and story. There's certainly a lot of fun to be had with the game, but plenty of areas for Game Freak to improve on.

@Luffymcduck According to some people on here, you're a "whiner" for having any problems with the game. Just ignore them.

@TophatDragoneye I actually own a copy of said game you ignorant fool. However despite that I still think that the critique that it gets is valid. Sad to see that your ignorance took the place of logical thinking. Your behavior is in no way better then mine, despite you trying your best to believe otherwise. Your behavior of defending these games with your life is what's really become predictable. Ain't my fault that you can't face reality and see that these games just aren't as good as you might think they are.

@Luffymcduck Only if you insult people to try and enforce your own opinion. If you give your criticism in a reasonable and constructive manner, then I have no problems with you.

@Timmytron
1) Not once did I claim you didn't own a copy of Sword & Shield.

2) I have not defended the games whatsoever here on Nintendo Life, because I quite frankly didn't think my opinions were welcome here based on the atmosphere here alone. All I've done 2 or 3 times is calling out people acting like a-holes, a quick look in my comment history can confirm that. I acknowledge there are flaws in Sword & Shield, but at least I don't act high and mighty about it.

3) I enjoyed playing Pokémon Sword. You trying to deconstruct my opinion (and many others, if the sales records are any indication) like that does not paint you in a good light.

I have no interest in continuing this conversation with you. If you insist on doing so, I'm just going to put on ignore because you're quite frankly not worth my time.

@patbacknitro18 some people voiced their concerns about the game pretty reasonable, to label the whole as “childish” because It was negative is pretty childish in itself.

I regret buying Pokemon Shield. I just put money into their products and as long as they're making money, they won't care about the quality of their games.

This is funny. The people who like SW/SH, since yall are throwing around “majority” and minority” in yalls arguements, I see why this game appeals to those people, yall are soft. Yall appreciate the work because you havent seen better and you like the babying. If anything is true the majority of people that like SW/SH are new to the franchise, the “minority” even though that couldn’t be farther from the truth is made up of people who have played through the earlier games, like myself, and have our standards rightfully high when it comes to these games. Is SW/SH bad? Obviously its not horrible, but its lazy af, how are you gonna cut 60% of the roster and have trashier graphics on a “new-gen” console than what you had in 2005-06? Don’t flame people about their well formed opinions when yours is trash anyway. If you people like throwing your money at something that has obviously been degraded, you are the target audience in the first place, the game became a cash grab as soon as it left the 3DS, maybe even the DS.

Salt the world.

@Bolt_Strike Actually I'd argue the opposite. They're making pokemon easier to get thus decreasing the time it takes for you to fill out the dex. That's not padding. Having to buy another console and version of the game or find a friend/someone you can trust to trade and trade back. THAT is padding. Having a game with over 800 characters and saying "hey collect all of them" that is padding too. Cutting down the number of pokemon and making them easier to encounter and catch is the exact opposite of padding.

Yes but in this case I saw a butterfree get competetive use. BUTTERFREE. I mean come on in gen 4-7 would you have expected to see that? You have multiple pokemon that can do the same role in different ways without necessarily being better than the other. This makes it more a contest of trainer skill. Competetively speaking it makes sense to cut pokemon out. As for playing with your favourites although I do sympathise with that (some of my favourites hadn't made it into Pokemon Sword and Shield) the point of a new pokemon game is to experience the new pokemon. Sorry but if I'm playing a new gen I want to use the newbies, not go "ah look at the 100 new pokemon......lets use pikachu for the 1000th time". Additionally having more pokemon is again: padding.

I do agree on the Home thing, it is pretty crappy of them to put transfers from previous gens behind a paywall but honestly it's not necessary. It's a nice to have (and the price you're paying is ridiculous) but it's not necessary for people to do unless they REALLY want to transfer pokemon over. Only reason I used Home is because for the first time ever completing the dex was achievable for me. Am I planning on paying to use Home again? Hell no. As for being angry at a company for making a cash-grab that's like being angry at someone for breathing. Companies are getting more and more ridiculous nowadays (just look at Sony using Sony as a console exclusive within a multi-platform game)

Deep and lengthy? Contests? Can do most Hoenn contests in an hour or two and they're insanely repetetive. Join Avenue? Meh. More repetition and none of it that interesting. Ok not gonna lie I LOVE the battle Frontier so I'll give you that one. The Battle Frontier was definitely deep and lengthy with hours you could sink in and different battle styles for each facility. But that's been missing since Gen 5 so can't really fault Sw/Sh for that. Really Pokemon sidequests and extra facilities have been disappointing for years.

Lets be honest here the Pokemon company's goal for their main games isn't the plot or quests, it's "how quickly can we get people playing online" that's it. And while yes that is awful, it's not new. They've been doing it for years. Gen 5 introduced reusable TMs, gen 6 easier methods to EV train, gen 7 IV manipulation, gen 8 nature changing, easier to get egg/relearnable moves on pokemon. You could catch a wild pokemon right now and, unless you need a specific egg move, make it 100% competetive.

@Dremp No, that is still padding. They're re-releasing Pokemon that were already there, all they're doing is just compensating for mechanics that inflated the amount of time/effort it takes to catch them such as version exclusivity, needing to wait a day/use a Wishing Piece to spawn a new Max Raid battle, and shinies being stupidly rare. They're not adding any actual new content.

And yet they're adding back all of the legendaries in Crown Tundra. If they were really doing this for competitive, they'd be gone permanently. The dex cut has little to do with competitive and more to do with them being too lazy/greedy to spend more than 3 years developing a game. Everyone is cash grabbing but that doesn't make it okay or necessary. This series prints money, there's no need for them to penny pinch to make a profit.

Yes, it is necessary. Pokemon's core identity is about forming bonds with other players and communicating/trading with other players. It's only natural then, that players would want to keep their old Pokemon around from game to game, so that's something that should be free. The only players that need the extra space are the ones that are storing breeding dexes, living dexes, or trades. The ones who need dozens of boxes of space. Most of the people transferring their old favorites probably won't need more than 1 box to transfer those.

Contests are deeper, lengthier, and less repetitive than the likes of Poke Jobs (store a few Pokemon and then just sit there and wait), Camping (play around with your Pokemon and mix recipes), and Diglett Hunting (find a Diglett 150 times). You have to find a Pokemon and build a moveset around their Contest effects. Then you have to raise their condition with Pokeblocks/Poffins. Then the Contests themselves involve multiple phases such as dancing and appeals. Join Avenue is a lot more interesting in building up and finding a place for your shops. There's other examples too. Secret Bases/Sinnoh Underground. Pokeathlon. Pokestar Studios. All offer much, much more content and much, much less repetition than things like Poke Jobs, Camping, and Diglett Hunting. And yes, they have been missing for a long time (more 6th gen than 5th gen, as BW2 had things such as Join Avenue, Pokestar Studios, and the PWT to keep things interesting). Still doesn't excuse SwSh from not doing it, it just means that SwSh has failed to fix a problem that's been a problem for a while. There's a reason why there's been constant complaints about the recent games having no content, games like XY, USUM, and LGPE got the same type of complaints for the same reason.

If TPC is boiling everything down to competitive, that's a huge problem (I don't think they are, they seem to just be pandering to mobile gamers because they falsely believe them to be the end all be all of the industry). Not everyone who is interested in Pokemon is interested in competitive battling, some people want to explore, some people want to collect Pokemon, some people want a good story, and some people just want to immerse themselves in hours and hours of content. TPC should be appealing to ALL of those groups if they want this game to sell more.

@Dremp My comment got too long so I had to split it.

This is the exact problem people are having with the recent direction of the series, and you're right, this is nothing new and these same issues have arisen since XY, but fans have also been complaining about it since XY. SwSh have just gotten more complaints than usual because it's spiraled further and further in the direction that the fans don't want the series to go in and has crossed a line with Dexit that happened to hit a nerve. The situation here is similar to the situation with Paper Mario, the developers are putting on self-imposed restrictions that were never necessary to make the game good and in fact are actively hampering the experience and regardless of fan outcry they seem to be uninterested in improving.

@Bolt_Strike Less pokemon means less pokemon to do repetetive tasks and therefore less padding. The extra things like cycling max raids and stuff are optional for people to do if they wish. MMOs do it and I feel like Sw/Sh is trying to be an MMO prototype. Shiny hunting is easier to do now than ever (Sw/Sh is where I've caught most of my shinies except maybe X/Y) and don't need to wait a day for max raid dens. Also lets be honest here there's no real reason to go back to a pokemon game outside of online battles. Cycling max raids feels like they're trying to entice people to come back, like daily quests in MMOs and mobile games, it's something I haven't seen them doing with a pokemon game before.

I wonder if there wasn't such a massive backlash would they have brought back all the legendaries? Or would they have only brought back a few while introducing a couple extra? If they were truly trying to be lazy/greedy then they could have done much worse like no battle tower, no post-game, even remove the emotions from the character's face (like Sun/Moon). It feels more like they tried to achieve something, tested it, saw the backlash and now are trying to just do damage control. Their excuses were beyond stupid though. As for printing money yeah their games are successful but they do have a number of side projects. I wonder how many of them have been failures? It's very possible TPC has a crapton of dead projects that they've pumped millions into just to end up dead in the water.

Forming bonds with other players has nothing to do with transferring pokemon from one gen to the next. As for moving game from a previous one to the current one, speaking as someone who does in fact do that, do I feel like I'm gaining anything by transferring pokemon from previous games? Not particularly. I mean I really doubt I'm actually gonna use them, they're more like trophies at this point. Whereas I don't agree that transferring is a necessity I do agree that their methods for it are ridiculous.

I'm not saying that Sw/Sh had amazing sidequests. Just that the sidequests in pokemon games generally have been underwhelming. Camping is just an easier form of Pokemon Amie/Refresh and Diglett Hunting was......yeah no comment. Contests were not that deep, any pokemon could win any contest with the right moves and pokeblocks/poffins. Hoenn only had 2 stages were your pokemon was judged based on amount of snacks you fed it, and then the moves it used. Gen 4 added a dancing bit (which was just copying button presses) and gen 5 had a dress up stage that worked as a judging stage too. Overall only about 10 minutes worth of content and the higher ranks were just the same thing but your opponents were harder. I'd definitely call that padding and repetetive. Join Avenue really wasn't interesting at all. If you like that kind of stuff great but honestly building shops just doesn't interest me. It's time consuming and just lots of mashing A with the occasional making a choice.

@Bolt_Strike Comment was too long maybe we should switch to another means of communication hahaha xD

Secret Bases again not that interesting. You make a base and if you get someone's friend codes can find their bases too and maybe battle them. Otherwise you just make a base for the sake of making one. Sinnoh Underground I dunno I never used this other than the tutorial and digging for fossils. I didn't have friends that play pokemon so couldn't do the flag hunting or anything. Pokeathlon this was fun and I do wish it would come back but deep? Nah. And it was repetetive lets be honest here. Pokestar Studios was not only unnecessary but boring and repetetive. Essentially a pokemon battle with lots of talking and where you had to use specific moves.

True, but I don't think the main series games are the way forward for that. They need a specific set of games that will tackle this. Ie one set of games where you go through the pokemon world as a contest star, one where you go through as a trainer, one as a collector etc. There are too many different approaches to the series to be able to satisfy everyone with one game and until they realise this the backlash will just continue. Something I view as completely pointless. There's no pleasing everyone, at some point things will get cut. Unless they switch to a much more powerful console and accept they need to step up their game but for now there's no real competition to actually make them speed up their approach. So they're taking their time. And at the end of the day we don't know what their end goal with the main series is. Maybe they are trying to make a big pokemmo, or maybe they're just being greedy we simply don't know. End of the day if they're not careful they can lose everything. No such thing as too big to fail when it comes to companies.

Maybe the issue between fans is because Dexit specifically broke the camel's back. I mean from your replies it's clear there's more to it than that but whenever I talk to fans who have issues with Sw/Sh they mostly moan about Dexit and nothing else. So it's nice to get a different perspective. I do agree with you on a lot of what's going on but honestly I don't think it warrants blaming Sw/Sh for it. The game is good, it still has issues that other pokemon games have but does that downgrade the value of this game on it's own? Nope. Could it be better? Of course. That's my point. Stand alone the game isn't perfect but it's good. Gen 1 isn't perfect either, it's a glitchy mess but it's also a good game. There's no point comparing one game gen to the next. At least that's how I see it. If I hadn't played the rest of the games and I picked up Sw/Sh and played it would I have enjoyed it? That's the criteria I personally use. If TPC screw up then yeah tell them, but my biggest issue is the sheer amount of anger, hatred and toxicity coming from the fandom particularly when it comes to Sw/Sh.

@Dremp I don't think you know what padding is. Padding is when they artificially add content to provide the illusion that the game has more. There's no "illusion" in more Pokemon, more Pokemon is more Pokemon. They're uniquely designed creatures with unique moves and abilities. That's not padding. The padding is when they act like the raid events give you more Pokemon to catch when all it does is make Pokemon easier to catch. Things like having daily quests and making shinies easier is definitely good, but it's not actual added content.

No, that's still lazy/greedy. They didn't even try to fit all of the Pokemon in because they couldn't be bothered to spend more than 3 years on a game. They intentionally scaled things back because of the graphical upgrades, it's blatantly obvious that's what they did based on everything they've said and done.

Forming bonds has everything to do with transferring. If you have a bond with your Pokemon, you want to carry it with you to the next game. It doesn't matter if you want to use it or it's just a trophy, you'll still want to carry it over. That alone is reason enough to need transfers to be free.

Compared to other series, maybe a little. But if you're going to argue that Poke Jobs, Camping, and Diglett Hunting offer just as much as some of the past sidequests. Yeah, no. For all of the padding you're pointing out for the older ones, those three are even more so. Poke Jobs is literally just 5 seconds to drop off/pick up Pokemon and that's it. Camping takes about a minute to do everything you can do. And Diglett Hunting is just 5 seconds to find the Diglett and then repeat the process 150 times. In the end the older sidequests are still a much better basis for what kind of content the games should have going forward.

True, you're not going to please everyone. But you can still please as many people as possible. You really shouldn't make a spinoff unless you're creating a different genre or making some type of gameplay mechanic that directly contradicts the core gameplay (for example, wanting to implement real time battling instead of turn based). Arbitrarily limiting your audience because you don't feel like fleshing out one aspect of the core formula is just lazy and leaving money on the table.

Dexit definitely was the straw that broke the camel's back, it was a new low for the direction of the series. But just because it didn't start all of this doesn't mean it doesn't deserve hate. If it still perpetuates the issues people have with the games, that doesn't absolve it from those mistakes. In fact, it actually makes it even more guilty, since the developers have had multiple opportunities to address the complaints and still failed.

As far as comparisons to other games, yes, if the game is a downgrade from anything it makes the game worse. Remember that this is a capitalist economy where products are competing against each other. So if a product cannot offer as much as its competitors, then yes, that devalues the product. Fact of the matter is that Sword and Shield is competing against other Switch games like BotW and Odyssey, even other Pokemon games. So naturally it's going to be compared to anything it can be.

@Bolt_Strike I'm sorry but no. More pokemon is padding. Many pokemon are very similar to each other (silcoon and cascoon, metapod and kakuna, almost 30 different unown) and their inclusion adds nothing to the game other than increasing the amount of time taken to catch every single pokemon. Secondly to catch most of these pokemon (especially rare ones) you backtrack into previously explored areas, usually after the post-game, looking for them spending hours if not days tracking them all down. Less pokemon cuts down on your backtracking, cuts down on the amount of time repeating the same actions and lets you progress. Don't even get me started on trade evolutions. Also at least after a max raid you get things like TRs, rare candies etc. There's an incentive to max raids beyond catching. But at the end of the day Sw/Sh didn't feel like it was missing anything with all those pokemon gone. It felt good to complete a dex plus come on of course each region will only have a few pokemon. It never made sense to me that every region should have every pokemon available. That's like saying all animals in the world should be available in each country.

I dunno. I'm more forgiving since it's on a new system, to me it feels more like they're trying to do baby steps. They also said moving forward this will be the case meaning the number of pokemon were capped for a reason which again I'm perfectly fine with. If the next game is still a graphical downgrade or has recycled animations etc I'd be a lot more annoyed at it. And clearly they want to add more content to Sw/Sh so eh.

Forming bonds with people (your original point) has nothing to do with transferring pokemon. Forming bonds with pokemon makes more sense but again you're transferring from one gen to the next with no reason other than "I want to". That's a luxury. In this world we pay for luxuries. Always has been the case. Just so happens that instead of paying for a link cable you're paying for an online storage service.

Like I said I'm not saying they're better in fact I wasn' a big fan of them. The battle tower, dlc and admittedly max raids for shiny hunting, TRs and egg moves/breeding/competetive is why I keep coming back. I just disagree that most of pokemons sidequests were that good. Although if Battle Frontier returns I'll be the first one to throw a party.

I dunno I feel like spinoffs for those kinds of games could work. Look at pokemon ranger. A spin off we didn't even think of and all 3 games are really damn good. I'm sure if someone made a pokemon explorstion and capture game (similar to snap and go) or a contest game where you can compete with people online people would love it. Besides even if they try to please everyone they'll probably just get more complaints.

Again it depends on the reason. For me the issue is more the reasons they gave. I like that there's less pokemon. I don't like that they tried to bs everyone, that was crappy of them. But I don't feel like doubling the pokemon would have made the game more fun or interesting.

Then that seems more like a societal issue to me. I judge games individually first. Each game is unique or at least tries to be. Again Sw/Sh isn't perfect but it's still a good game in its own right. As for comparing it to Odyssey and BotW that's ridiculous. I highly doubt any pokemon game could ever compete with BotW. In fact most switch games can't, BotW is just that good.

@TophatDragoneye
Not my thing insulting people over their opinions. Since my reply comes so late I'll return to this topic the next time there are news about Sword & Shield.

@Dremp It doesn't matter if they're similar or not. They're not the same, they don't have the same designs, abilities, and movesets, and different people like different ones. That's still not padding, the Pokemon are the content.

And yeah, every region isn't going to have every Pokemon, the older games didn't let you catch every single Pokemon in gameeither. The difference is the older games let you transfer the ones that weren't in the game, whereas SwSh just block them altogether.

Being on a new system is reason to be even less forgiving actually. The Switch is a much more powerful system capable of much more than the 3DS and its games are $20 more expensive. The Switch Pokemon games should be night and day better than the 3DS to justify the upgrade.

The reason why has nothing to do with the transfers. Regardless of people's reasons, it's a core part of the experience that doesn't take a significant expense to implement. Hence it should be free.

Ranger really didn't do all that much to warrant a spinoff and most of what it's done of value has already been done in the main games. Plus it didn't sell all that well. Hence it isn't needed, and anything similar would probably meet the same fate. It'd be better to just implement them into the main game and actually address the complaints than bother making a spinoff.

Any reason that's anything other than "it would've taken an insane amount of time/money to implement" just isn't an acceptable excuse. The Pokemon are a core part of the series identity, the marketing even had the slogan "Gotta catch 'em all" during Pokemon's heyday. So for them to not even bother trying things like increasing development time or hiring more staff just proves that they're cheap/lazy. Doesn't matter whether you personally find them interesting or not, the fandom as a whole wants to be able to use their favorites.

Societal issue or not, that's the way it works and people are going to have to make those decisions on a regular basis to decide whether or not they want the game. So they have no choice, they have to consider this when developing and selling the game.

@Bolt_Strike Ok by that logic max raid pokemon aren't the same either, they have varying abilities, different IVs, different movesets, and in some cases different forms. If silcoon and cascoon two pokemon who are the literal exact same pokemon just with a very slightly different look (namely colour and eye shape) can count as extra content then the same species pokemon with multipe different things like potential, moves, abilities counts as extra content. Either way you have limited ways to obtain pokemon, it mostly falls down to, enter battle, throw ball, maybe lower hp, throw another ball, catch. Adding more pokemon to repeat this process with is just repetetive and yeah it's padding. You're making it seem like there's more to the game than there is but no it's just that same loop over and over for creatures that are barely (if at all) different from each other. A full dex just means more of the same loop.

I'm aware and that's fine. Every game doesn't need every pokemon in it. It makes more sense to have them in a central area like Home anyway rather than transfer them in just to fill in a National pokedex that has no real reason to exist anyway.

I do agree but sine this is their first main series game it could be argued that they're testing what they can do on the switch. Which is why I give their first game a bit of a pass when it comes to graphics etc. Plus the game feels like they were trying to test something out so eh.

Again I agree it should be free but I don't personally see it as a massive deal. I just don't see transferring pokemon as a core experience. For it to be a core experience means that without it you're losing something, which lets be honest you're really not. If you could do something with those transferred pokemon or if Home had some extra activities then yeah I would 100% agree that you're missing out on something big. But since you're transferring them over from one box just to sit in another box I can't call it a core experience.

The reason it didn't sell well is probably lack of marketing. I bumped into them totally by accident, don't know that many people who even know they exist and everyone I know who knew and played pokemon ranger loved the games. Obviously the spin-offs are needed if people are making such a massive hype over things like contests and pokeathlons. But these things won't be in every pokemon game and asking TPC to put them in every one is just ridiculous.

Although I do agree that they put themselves in a corner with their slogan, at that time there were only 151 pokemon, most of which were catchable within one game. Whereas now there's over 800 pokemon and lets be honest they're going to keep making more. Of course at some point they'd stop putting data for all pokemon in a game. Although granted it's being done sooner than expected. Having the expectation that every pokemon will be in every pokemon game is unrealistic the more pokemon that are added regardless of how lazy TPC gets. It makes more sense to have something like Home. A new pokemon main series game should be about the new pokemon, not bringing in the same 700 to go through with them. It's a new adventure, not same adventure different location.

If every game was to be compared to BotW or Odyssey before being made we wouldn't have any games on the Switch and if devs obsessed over that we wouldn't get any games at all.

@Dremp No, not really. Max Raid battles don't offer you any different Pokemon or abilities, the Pokemon you find there are the same as Pokemon you can find normally. Maybe if it were like Mario Kart Tour and there were unique species you could only encounter there it might be, but otherwise no. If you don't like the Pokemon fine, but others do, and having the option to use whatever Pokemon you want makes the games better. If you don't want to take advantage that's up to you, but more options is better.

Some experimentation is fine, but the game shouldn't look like an obsolete buggy mess. This is what beta testing is for. The finished product should be a LOT more polished than this.

Again, the key word is option. If you want to battle with them, explore with them, participate in sidequests with them, whatever it is you want, you can do it. What you're losing is the ability to interact with them and they're forcing you to let them rot in the PC instead of deciding if you want to use them yourself.

Every single sidequest being in every single one is unrealistic yeah, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we need something else LIKE them to appeal to as many people as possible. The games need to have lots of deep and varied content to appeal to a variety of demographics. They already have the competitive environment. They have the wide variety of Pokemon for collectors. They have deeper storylines sometimes (the execution isn't always the greatest, but they do have them). World design is improving for people that like to explore (they still have a long way to go, but it's getting better). What they still need is a satisfying amount of extra content and fun sidequests for completionists, that's what having something like Contests or Secret Bases does for the series.

800some Pokemon is a lot to manage, but a competent AAA developer would either be able to handle it or at least improve in other areas to show that they're actually trying as hard as they can. Part of the controversy behind Dexit and why Game Freak and TPC look so lazy isn't just the lack of Pokemon, but the lack of any significant improvements elsewhere to justify it. Everything about the game screams "We cut corners in this game to meet our bottom line", I have an extremely hard time believing they tried as hard as they could to make this the best game they possibly could.

Tremendous exaggeration here. Yes, we'd have less games, but to say there'd be "no games" is flat out wrong. An average AAA dev can put out a game like BotW in about 3 or 4 years, but an average AAA dev would also need to have about 2 or 3 times as much staff as Game Freak has. So they can definitely still put out a reasonable amount of games. And even if there's less games, at least they'd all be top tier games instead of a dozen mediocre ones. It'd be quality over quantity. Alternatively, if they can't/don't want to put in such a heavy investment they could drop the price, there's nothing saying every game has to be $60 so they should price the games reasonably based on how much they're actually offering to the player.

@Bolt_Strike I don't think we'll ever agree on this to be honest. Again some of my favourites were cut too, but that's not an issue because new main series games should 100% be about the new pokemon with SOME returning as a nice "oh hey you're here too". Besides less pokemon can increase the chance of you liking another one if you end up using it. More choice isn't always better in fact studies have found that people tend to be more satisfied with their choices when there are less options. More pokemon isn't better. It's just more hassle to collect things that you'll get multiples of, evolve one or two of them, for the dex, dump all 2/3 in a box and transfer from gen to gen for eterntiy if you even remember they exist that is. Speaking as someone who completed the dex for the very first time in Sw/Sh in my 20 years of playing pokemon I'm happy there were less pokemon. Completing the dex was made much MUCH more achievable in Sw/Sh and actually made me come back to the game more satisfied and ready to jump into playing more. Plus because of it I actually tried to complete the Home dex (I'm a Genesect and an Arceus away )

True, but compared to most games out there it's not that bad. At least I personally haven't encountered many bugs other than the odd crash here and there which I get on other games too just as uncommonly, and the transferring from home to Sw/Sh not registering. As for the Wild Area it makes sense considering they never made an MMO so probably didn't know what to do with it and chose more empty space. They'll improve eventually.

Again most of them would rot in the PC regardless. Too much option doesn't mean good. It actually has the opposite effect.

The issue here I believe is that the fandom has proved time and time again that nothing is good enough. Even if they try to please the masses they'll hear the people who are more vocal and toxic. I think they've just realised that no matter what they do people will be angry. Get that response enough times and of course you'll just say "screw it" and do whatever. I'm not as mad at this because again other than very few instances (Battle Frontier and to an extent Pokeathlon), they haven't proven able to create extra content that is deep enough to sink hours into that you can do solo.

I agree, but lets be honest here they've been lazy for a while. You can tell their inspiration ended at B/W (B2/W2 were dreadful). My specific issue with people who are mad at dexit is that they scream and get angry and call Sw/Sh the worst game of the series when some of them haven't even tried it just because of dexit. Sw/Sh are good games. Dex cutting was inevitable. Their excuses suck but at the end of the day they're a company looking to make money just like Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Facebook etc. None of this is a surprise. It's crappy and shameful but not a surprise. you can enjoy the content while hating the creator. Hating the creator doesn't make the content bad.

@Bolt_Strike Eh so so. BotW for me is one of, if not the best game on the Switch. And really thinking about it how many games out there are better or on par with BotW? Not many I can guarantee that. Not a perfect game but damn near perfect in many people's eyes. That's a lot to live up to. Some devs were probably intimidated when they saw this and some probably backed down. If every company sat there seeing the praise BotW got, seeing the adoration, the love, the thousands of videos and mods and challenges people are doing to this day just to experience it over and over again and thought "do I even try to compete against this?" They'd say no because that would be a massive waste of money for them. Would there be no games? Probably not. But there would probably be nothing on the Switch for a good couple years, at which point people would move away from the Switch. No Directs, no (or at least very VERY spaced out) new games, no interest. Would be like the virtual boy.

Sorry reply was too long.

@Dremp Well that's what the regional dex is for. To give you a smaller selection of Pokemon to choose from in the main campaign so you aren't overwhelmed at the beginning. But then after you beat the game, the training wheels come off and you have a full selection to choose from. Maybe keeping the National Dex tied to Home like with 7th gen could be a good idea for the reasons you mentioned, I find that all tedious as well TBH, but if that's your only argument for keeping Dexit, maybe the issue is more the National Dex then the availability altogether. Being denied the option to have the Pokemon in the game at all though? That's a step too far. I want to interact with my old Pokemon with some of the unique features available in the new games. I want my Pokemon to follow me around, which they can't do in every game (at this point, HGSS, LGPE, and SwSh are the only ones to allow that so far). I want to camp with them, enter them in Contests, etc. Since those things cannot be in every game we need the option to transfer them into the games that do.

It's not just about the bugs and crashes. Games that have those tend to be considered disasters (see Sonic 06 as a very good example), but those aren't the only issues. There's also issues with graphical detail and performance to consider. Things like low quality graphics and performance issues can also make the games look cheap and not worth the money. And there's plenty of those types of issues with SwSh, with the assets having low res textures (see: the trees in the Wild Area), the Pokemon animations being relatively static, and the game lagging like a Slowpoke when the Y-Comm is connected to the Internet.

I never saw any significant complaints with 4th gen, and the only complaints I saw with 3rd gen was because of the lack of transfers. Those generations seemed to handle things fairly well all things considered. It was 5th gen when the complaints started picking up, and that's mainly because they started pandering towards casuals. That's not the fanbase being unpleasable. That's the developers being tone deaf towards what the fanbase wants. Again, it's like with Paper Mario, a lot of the issues people have with the series now is with a divisive new direction the developers chose to go in with self-imposed rules that no one asked for that degrade the quality of the games.

Calling the game the worst in the series is a bit much, yeah, I hate a lot about what the games do but I can at least admit there are some things the games do that have merit and are actually improvements. But that doesn't make what they're doing acceptable or the content good or enjoyable, nor does the idea of everyone else doing it either. If a flaw in the gameplay has such a profound impact that it ruins the experience, and there are several in SwSh, then that's bad content, not just a bad creator. People generally don't hate a creator for the sake of hating a creator. They hate a creator because they hate the flaws that always pop up in their work.

@Dremp Comment part two.

Any developer that has that kind of attitude may as well leave the industry. If you don't think you can compete with BotW, it'll probably squeeze you out of the market. At the end of the day if you want to stay in business you need to set out to make the best game you possibly can and try to give it a unique hook to differentiate it from the competition. Not every game can be BotW, but BotW also can't be every game. What fans are looking for in a BotW competitor isn't necessarily a clone that can do everything just as good as BotW, that'd be nearly impossible. What they want to see is their game as fully fleshed out as possible. The issue here is that Pokemon isn't fully fleshed out, there is much, MUCH more they can do to make the games high quality experiences and the fans wanted the games to be closer to that ideal by this point.

@Bolt_Strike I can see the appeal of having your pokemon brought to new generations and I 100% agree the National Dex should be kept to Home alone (had to make the reference haha), my argument is that pokemon being transferred from older gens should be seen as a luxury not a necessity. It's the attitude behind it. There's still plenty of different ways we could enjoy older gen pokemon being brought over. A colosseum like game for battlers, contest one for well people who like contests that can go deeper into it the idea etc. Good way for pokemon company to make money, and more competitions for them to showcase pokemon in a different way. With a bonding mechanic implemented in Home as well as every pokemon generation game and remake. Treat Home less like a database and more like a farm or something.

Yeah but there's a difference. Sonic 06 is an undeniable mess of bugs Sw/Sh isn't. I haven't seen any bugs other than really minor things. That were fixed really quickly. Namely crashes (which affected me once, and has occurred on multiple other games) and the pokemon transfers not registering on the dex (which got fixed relatively quickly). I do agree with the Wild Area issues, but I do believe that that's just because they didn't know how well the game would run with multiple people connected. That's more of a lack of MMO experience. You can tell because the rest of the game looks pretty good (as far as pokemon games go). Y-Comm performance dip is definitely an issue that should be fixed. But not all games that have bugs are bad. BotW has a lot of bugs, hell people use them over and over to speedrun. Hell Gen 1 was a massive bug fest with gameplay being severely affected with type matchup issues.

Well yeah gen 4 is perfect!!!! Nah I'm kidding, Gen 4 is my favourite gen but it's not perfect either. I think you've just kinda proved that the fanbase is unpleasable. If the game has everything they asked for they demand something they didn't really know would be a thing (transferring, because remember gen 1 and 2 didn't have transfers, you were trading back and forth through time). Or demand that the game stop helping new people enter the franchise (pandering to casuals) keep in mind that pandering to casuals complaint happened in the one (and only) gen that introduced a hard mode.

@Bolt_Strike Part 2

I'm not saying that Sw/Sh are perfect, I'm just saying I have yet to hear a piece of criticism that seems legit other than the Wild Area, lags, transferred pokemon registering to the dex and the occasional crash. Ok you've mentioned flaws in the gameplay that ruin the experience. What would those be? I've played both Sword and Shield (one as a normal playthrough, one as a nuzlocke) and have yet to hear about or experience a gameplay bug that has been an issue other than lag which makes sense considering their inexperience with online games.

That's not that true though is it? There have been some absolute disastrous games that have come out but their companies do well because they make enough of them, their brand is recognisable and they have a good mascot. Just look at Sonic. Pokemon company is successful because they've reached a point where they can churn out whatever and people will get it just like Sonic. Pokemon Unite received so much hate but I bet when it's out it'll be a massive success. Again they're a business. Less effort and more games = more money. I'm not saying it's right, in fact I'm fully agreeing that they should do better for their fans, but at the same time if they stopped everything to focus on something like BotW and making their games as good as that they'd never make a game. I mean think about it. Pokemon stories have never been good (with the exception of B/W which lets be honest was mostly a dig at PETA), distractions and side quests are meh, (don't count battle frontier as a side quest since it's accessible post-game), their post-game content is decent (depending on the game). Generally I think it's not because they don't want to make a good pokemon game, you can see evidence of them trying, it's more like they want to experiment and see what people like but implement it poorly due to inexperience, get backlash and try to offer excuses. You can tell recently that their main new region games are starting to act like demos. X/Y felt incomplete because it was a demo for ORAS, the game they KNEW people wanted. Sw/Sh is most likely a demo for DPPt remakes. Sun and moon were pretty much demos for the ultra versions. They throw things at the fandom to see what sticks which is an awful business practice but it works for them. It's not right, by any means. But it works for them. And their priority (in their eyes) is to survive as a business.