Devil's Third has endured a tortured route to retail, losing its original publisher THQ to bankruptcy and being picked up by Nintendo after years of development, but one of the most unusual twists was that it very nearly got dropped by Nintendo of America only to be picked up again when the company performed a less-than-elegant 180 following the reaction of fans to the news.
If you cast your mind back, we reported that NoA was considering dropping the troubled title after a no-show at E3 and scant publicity throughout 2015, with another publisher apparently in talks to handle distribution state-side. That publisher was later rumoured to be XSEED.
Nintendo's change of heart has apparently resulted in a disgruntled XSEED, and one source who claims to have inside information is saying that it has damaged the working relationship between the two.
The person making these claims is NeoGaf user ShockingAlberto, who has offered up inside info in the past and has proven to be reliable. However, for obvious reasons, this should be considered a rumour at present - it's highly unlikely that XSEED will comment on the story, as the news of it picking up Devil's Third was - lest we forget - off the official record in the first place.
Our review of the game went live yesterday with the score pending following a playtest of the final online servers. It's out this week in Europe, with a North American launch coming later this year.
[source neogaf.com, via gonintendo.com]
Good, screw NoA for releasing a physical version of this and not Fatal Frame 5. Maybe allow some good will and let XSEED publish a LE deluxe version of FF5?
By the looks of things this game is gonna sell poorly so it would seem that xseed have dodged a bullet!
This is the only game Iam super excited for. This is going to sell well, No matter what. It is a game that Nintendo needs on its wii u console and I can't wait to slash your bodies in half.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure XSEED is too sad not to have wasted money to translate the game and release it. We're talking of Devil's Third.
Leave it to Nintendo to damage another great third party relationship.
@Damo ''but one of the most unusual twists was that it very nearly got dropped by Nintendo of America only to be picked up again when the company performed a less-than-elegant 180 following the reaction of fans to the news.''
Is there any proof for this? I thought that was all rumour and speculation, besides even if they changed their mind, I doubt it was because of the fan reaction.
Will XSEED still be publishing Mad Men Football?
@Lutherian They wouldn't have to spend any money on translation, though, as it's being released in Europe. It would probably not have to sell a lot to turn into a profit for XSeed.
@Octane We have our sources.
@HollywoodHogan You seem to be unnaturally interested in the fate of that title
Don't damage relationships with anyone NoA! We need (alright, I WANT) the support for niche Japanese stuff on NX, if NX is what I think it's going to be...
Also though I'm in the UK, a lot of the localisation stuff is centered around the US market, with good reason. If ithe NX is region-free I'll be importing like crazy! NIS, XSeed, Atlus: keep relations smooth, please!
I still don't believe NoA "changed their minds" on publishing it. People just jumped to conclusion and acted like NoA wasn't publishing since it came out in Europe and Japan first(just like Yoshi's WW). This lead to people like Unseen64 to post bogus rumors just because NoA didn't announce a release date(yet).
Now this just seems to be part 2 of the bogus rumor(so to speak). So someone on NeoGaf has "inside sources" similar to what Unseen64 had and is claiming a beef between NoA/Nintendo and XSeed. I could be wrong, but I just think this is just feeding off Unseen64's BS.
Website articles based on unconfirmed NeoGAF posts are a thing now? As much as I love the GAF, even I'd want to do some research first.
@KryptoKrunch Unseen64 had nothing to do with that report, and you shouldn't be so accusatory about things you clearly have very little insight into.
So Xseed are upset that they didn't get to put their name to this horrible game?
Possiby the lowest rated game on Wii U, including that legendary terrible indy game, would have been best not touching this game at all.
People's wild speculation doesn't even amount to rumour. Wild speculation is all it is.
NoA: Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
After the reviews, it went good for XSEED....
@Damo Any intention of sharing those sources? Because you cannot simply pass it off as facts if there's no way of confirming it. It's fine if you don't want to share those, but until you do, it's nothing more than a rumour.
@Octane Seeing as it would cost these people their jobs, we can't share the sources.
However, you can take my word that as someone who speaks to a lot of people behind the scenes, there was most definitely something up at NoA. We've been following and pestering NoA for information about the game for most of 2015 (prior to E3), and even if you don't believe what has been reported, surely the fact that the company decided to say absolutely nothing at all about the game at E3 speaks volumes.
Reggie even stated that they were only showing off games at E3 that were coming in the next few months (so no Zelda) yet Devil's Third wasn't shown. That is a pretty big giveaway that the company was having second thoughts about what was one of last year's big E3 announcements. It wasn't even on the show floor!
I'm still amazed that people are finding it so hard to believe that NoA had a crisis of confidence in this situation, even when the reviews have been almost uniformly terrible.
@Jimtaro The guy posting this info has been proven reliable in the past. It's not just some random post.
@TurboTEF Wait NoA isn't releasing a physical version of this either?
Nintendo just can't seem to do anything without pissing people off. But on the bright side, not making sense and pissing people off is something that they ARE very good at
@Damo Sure, I assume there was something going on with Devil's Third at NOA, but to know for sure is something else. My assumption is just an assumption after all. I think that they are very well aware that Devil's Third isn't anywhere near an amazing game, so I could understand the hesitation to publish the game.
I was just wondering if the sources where also available to us. I understand that not everything can be publicly shared, and I'll take your word for it, but with all the rumours and speculation going on, actual sources are always much appreciated.
@Octane Absolutely, I'd love to be able to cite sources in this respect but it's just not possible. Sadly that's the nature of many of these stories - sources are keen to get the info out there but doing it publicly is going to result in them losing their jobs. We've already seen one NoA employee get the sack for speaking out of turn recently.
I'm sure he is but this is just isn't professional writing. Don't get me wrong, I've been writing for gaming sites for years and I know all too well the importance to get onto news fast, it can be a challenge to get new content out there at the best of times. Alas unfounded rumour posts don't do you or the site any favours; perhaps put together a more comprehensive piece with confirmed references? Or follow it up with some own research? It's just not worth the hassle of posting a quick article sometimes, I know from my own experience that readers will often want sources or confirmation. It's just the business we're in.
Just the latest in yet another bad look for NoA. Their decision making process is truly one of self sabotage. It defies logic time and time again.
@Damo Yeah, you might think you're a soecial case, with so many hits and the fact that you actually get interviews from higher ups at Nintendo but I don't trust you any more than I would any other random website. I guess the 180 is true, but I wouldn't take your word for it.
After the negative backlash, NOA didn what they felt they had to do and go back on their decision not to publish the game.
But they should have just stuck to it. Dropping the game would have given credence to the 'rumours' circulating regarding the title which turned out to be true - that it was a crap game that didn't meet the usual Nintendo standards. That's why they dropped it. I'm not saying their decision to ultimately publish the game is wrong - but they should have made a decision either way and stuck to their guns. What they were hoping for was the quietly sweep the whole situation under the carpet. But thanks to the game's creator, leaked stories and good old social networking, they couldn't do that.
I'm totally looking forward to getting this when my copy arrives. It looks fun! I don't touch COD or any of the 'mid noughties shooters' the game apparently 'rips off' so I'm probably the perfect candidate to enjoy this. And if it's 'so good it's bad' then that appeals to me as well.
@Fee That's entirely your prerogative, this is marked as a rumour for a reason.
Non story, shouldn't have been posted. Nothing more than a single Neogaf poster. Lame work by Nintendolife.
I think this was proven false already
@DiscoGentleman You don't need any of this as a reason to bash NoA, the amiibo situation alone justifies doing it.
Rumors of Xseed picking up the game: "Damn you NoaA!"
Rumors about NoA changing their mind do to backlash: "Damn you NoA!"
If this is true hopefully NoA will send a different game their way to make up for it.
A rumour about a rumour? How exiting!
So, basically, less chances of XSEED bringing interesting games over to the west in the future for all Nintendo consoles.
Doing great, Nintendo.
You guys at Nintendolife will do anything to attack NoA, even if it's a rumour it seems. What a pathetic piece of shoddy journalism this article is, and most of the comments reek as well, following the same hive mind as you lot. I've seen a great deal of Nintendo websites, but this one continues to show just how bad journalism can be. That's quite a feat really, but not one you want to have. An absolutely disgusting article and a website too that breeds the worst Nintendo fans imaginable. The kind who pretend they like Nintendo but will take any jab they can to kick them while they are down and soil their name.
I like XSeed, hope they stilll make games for Nintendo systems, though they haven't done a ton this generation out of the Sagura series on 3DS.
NoA is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" now. I suppose they saw losing the trust of a publisher for them is less damaging than the trust of their consumers, even though the game is getting lambasted. If they didn't flip-flop and react to a "rumor," a lot of this wouldn't happen, but I suppose they didn't want to get on the bad graces of their parent company by appearing different from them.
EDIT: now that I think about it, the consumers and fan-reactions probably had nothing to do with the flip-flop, and it was all contractual obligations they would, seemly, pass off to another company, making NoA far more of a shady partner in this case. Just my thoughts, but the story behind this case is far more interesting and entertaining than the game itself. I almost want to buy the game just for that.
@Octane Right. It's never been confirmed. It's still just a rumored. Then again, regardless of whether or not it was true, NoA is still in a bad position no matter what. They're in a bad position for publishing a game that, from what I've heard, is pretty bad. If the rumor is true, then NoA is in a bad position because they've lost more 3rd-party support. There really is no way to win with this.
That's business, Xseed. Nintendo fans in the US cried out for Nintendo to publish the game, so Nintendo reacted to this. No need to sulk about it!
Xseed hasn't done much for Nintendo during the Wii U generation, so I don't really mind if they break off relations.
I'm sure there are other 3rd party companies who would be willing to publish Nintendo games in a heartbeat.
@Fee There is no ACTUAL evidence that NoA did a 180, due to fan feedback.
The fact that they announced it for Japan and Europe first really means nothing at all. The game is not hitting NA until later in the year, so in a way, it made sense to hold off announcing it at the same time as Japan and Europe.
Also, if 'fan power' is so powerful, Nintendo would have done a few more so called 180's. There has been an absolute uproar over Digital only copies of Fatal Frame. So, as thousands have complained, we can expect Nintendo to change their mind, and produce physical copies for ALL regions, yes?
The fact that both the site and source 'so called', have been right a couple of times about things, people automatically believe anything they now come out with.
If I recall correctly, the timing of all of this came about during the period where Iwata took a turn for a worse, eventually died, and the immediate aftermath. Given that Iwata made final decisions at NoA, it could be that someone made a decision that they were not supposed to make or reversed a decision that others made that they disagreed with.
Maybe other parts of Nintendo were upset that NoA was going to escape this debacle and someone asserted authority during those dark days. Maybe Reggie wanted NoA to publish the game and was able to make it happen after no one was there to stop him. We don't know what really happened. We just know that the game appears to be really bad — potentially the worse game Nintendo has released in a very long time. Anyone not involved, by choice or by chance or by force, should be happy.
So NoA messed the bed yet again?
I am enormously offended that this is getting a full physical release, yet Fatal Frame 5 is stuck in the digital ghetto.
When anonymous sources are given, people demand to know the identity before they acknowledge what is said. When an NoA employee makes a statement in public, he gets fired. You see the problem here?
Certain people have been right enough times to earn my trust and Unseen64 is definitely one of them. You also don't BS about stuff like that on Neogaf. People do hard research, and you get banned. There's a ton of industry insiders on there and the truth comes out, but you're never going to get named sources. This doesn't mean thing are not true. There's just too much evidence showing NoA dropped this and then performed a u turn.
@Jimtaro And many readers are interested in hearing inside information, i appreciate these articles and the work that goes into bringing us these sources. Nintendolife has been very reputable in posting rumors, i'm willing to trust them to the degree i find the story likely and i certainly appreciate the insight. I would strongly suggest these articles are appreciated far more than not.
While appreciation is all down to the individual reader, it's evident from the amount of people questioning the source that people want confirmation too. That's just basic professional writing. That said, it's not me writing it, and every author can present to their readers whatever they wish. It's just very often, unsourced rumours are a big no go in this business which is the point I was making. I guess I was surprised to see it being posted here.
That's what you get for not bringing over Medabots, XSEED.
@Syrek I've been a Nintendo fan since I first played Donkey Kong at the arcade in 1983, got it for Colecovision that same year, watched the rubbish cartoon, and enjoyed the cereal (which was a superior version of Captain Crunch). The US Amiibo situation alone is enough to bash them a considerable outside of the other recent actions of theirs. Need we go back through the years and recount their other boneheaded decisions? The Wii (later years)/WiiU/3DS era are NoA worst years yet when ot comes to dumb decisions.
Why would XSEED be upset ? If the game is as bad as it seems to be from early reviews , and likely to bomb , then surely they should be happy ? This rumour appears to be an attempt to justify the original rumour , so the internet can use the rumour monger for future rumours and retain rumour credibility.
@kingofthesofa have to agree on this one. If this game is as bad as the reviews say it is, XSEED may actually want to thank NoA.
Nintendo only uses XSEED to dump the games they don't want to localize on so there's not much of a relationship to damage.
It would be tragic if Nintendo lost xseed over Devil's Third.
Well, rumour is just that, rumour. It might be true, it might be that insider own personal opinion, or it might be that insider just heard it from another insider, or even, it might be just a made up. Thing is, we'll probably just know the truth years later, when the head of Nintendo or XSEED retired and decide to took an interview. Until then... it's business as usual.
@Syrek It's a rumor calm down don't get all mad cause someone's talking about your precious NOA.
@Damo It's a humorous jab at this site and a comment on reporting on things based on little evidence, since it dedicated a few articles (and therefore lent credibility) to an obvious hoax of a game. A few minutes of digging showed Mad Men Football shouldn't be taken seriously.
It makes me smile to know there is still a page on this site dedicated to that fake game.
@Klimbatize We expressed our doubts that Mad Men Football would actually get made when we first reported on it - no reason to ignore it, even if it did look unlikely. Lots of games get announced and then don't actually get made - MMF certainly isn't the only unreleased title to have a game page on the site.
This sounds just about as silly as the stupidity happening over the McWhopper. Basically a business deal that may or may not have gone down may or may not have resulted in hurt feelings.
The logic as to why escapes me because by all appearances a digital only release makes the most sense, much like the digital only release of Fatal Frame. These are niche titles that while they fill out the software library for the Wii U, they will remain niche titles. The only reason Devil's Third may do better is because it basically is the only new game in town outside of Splatoon.
@Damo It seems you failed to consult them before reporting this rumor, hence XSEED's Brittany: "dear everyone: stop publishing posts from random neogaf users like they're fact and freaking people out over non-existent bullshit." As a regular NL reader, I'd appreciate it if you'd find corroborating sources before spreading baseless information.
I KNOW people aren't seriously gonna sit here and mock NoA for publishing this after that wild crap storm of temper tantrums when people thought they WEREN'T gonna publish it, that would be just too much.
If you were slamming them when the rumor was they weren't publishing, you have NO right to slam them now.
If you want something to complain about NoA, there are plenty other legit things to choose from (lack of LE Mario Maker, lack of Fatal Frame physical, etc). But to criticize them for this? You lose your credibility instantly.
I think Nintendo could have done a better job with this in more areas than just the publishing fiasco.
I hope Project Treasure doesn't end up being a mess like this!
Another slow news day NL? Maybe they should have called this game "Devil's Advocate".
So far, no site other than Nintendo Ethusiast seems to be picking this up. Weird.
@Operationgamer17 It's because most websites knew this rumour was BS and steered clear of reporting it...
@Damo The case of Mad Men Football was more than just a potential game that was never made. It was clear from the beginning it would never get made, yet this site dedicated four articles over several months to its prospects despite the fact it was clearly not a serious enterprise. The guy was a phony from the beginning, as evidenced by his website. No, not just the look of it, but the fact that he faked the comment sections on his site, etc. I have gone into details about this before on this site, so I won't go into anymore, but the guy was clearly pulling a gag (or was at least completely incompetent and nowhere near actually producing a game) and it was embarrassing that NL went along with it.
For the most part, you guys rock though. I was just explaining why Mad Men Football gets brought up as a punchline after stories like this appear on this site.
@Neko_Rukiafan Nevermind. I just Googled "XSEED Devil's Third" and found a few sites reporting on it. I just had to not use Google news to find them.
Every decision, somehow Nintendo of America is worst than Sega of America under Bernie.
We MAY have confirmation that it's not true. https://mobile.twitter.com/Hatsuu/status/636950061805514752
@MadAdam81 "Possiby the lowest rated game on Wii U" Correction... the lowest rated game that HASN'T COME OUT, YET. But yeah ok, I guess everyone can just keep making their premature judgements. That's cool.
@Operationgamer17 There's also this. http://t.co/aPwUFtMAhM
Ah, yes, it's the Internet, so you don't have to cite sources or report facts. Just base your article on a post from NeoGAF.
And I'm sure XSEED was dying to publish a poopitypoopoop game that's going to bomb.
@TurboTEF I know, right? I'm only buying Fatal Frame V if it gets a physical release in NA and based off the recent announcements the odds of that are slim.
"...Has offered up inside info in the past and has proven."
Yeah, I've heard that one before. Rumors and speculation was all the DT publishing controversy ever was. XSeed doesn't even do business exclusively on Nintendo consoles. They do plenty for the Vita and PS4. Losing DT shouldn't mean the loss of a partnership, and if it does then to Hell with XSeed for their whining. I'm thankful they brought Xenoblade, Pandora's Tower and The Last Story to the west, but good God they can at least let one game go.
All of this whining and polluting of the comments section is more annoying than working with special needs kids all day...and that's what I do for a living!
@Bowser908 You sure talk a lot. I'm no fan of NeoGAF either, but damn. By the way, we get it. You hate Devil's Third because you're on THAT train. I'm just hoping some other troll derails you at the next junction.
When Devil's Third tanks horribly in North America, I'll be waiting with a bag of popcorn, a Lay-Z-Boy recliner and a bottle of Boylan soda, watching people try and justify being so critical of Damien's reporting on what was obviously a big issue.
For reference though, I've been on the other side. I've seen the press e-mails that any member of the press can see, the personal e-mails detailing release dates and rescheduling and the truly personal e-mails where people are putting their careers on the line.
The fact of the matter is this: to get the news, Damien needs to be trusted. Revealing certain pieces of information, regardless of how unnecessarily upset readers get when they don't get their way, breaks that trust. Breaking that trust means that source (and other sources) will no longer confide in this and other websites' staff. It's not a convenient thing for entitled users who feel like some piece of gaming news could shape their lives dramatically, but it is a professional code of conduct that I trust Damien more for abiding in than by running wild without courtesy towards those who share these details.
@Damo Don't listen to all these tools who are in denial about NoA trying to weasel out of bringing Devil's Third to North America. I've always believed that "where there's smoke, there's fire," and in this case, there has been PLENTY of smoke! How do you go from touting the game at E3 the year before to saying absolutely nothing about it only a couple of months from its release? And why did Europe get it only a couple weeks after Japan while NA didn't have any solid confirmation of a 2015 release until just a couple days ago? And if you add how any promotion or mention of the game was removed from the eShop after E3, I think it is safe to say that NoA was most definitely trying to bail on releasing this game. C'mon people, don't be dense! You should be able to put all the pieces of this puzzle together and realize what NoA's intentions were. I really appreciate how NL, Unseen 64, and others have been on NoA's case about this whole thing. Even if Devil's Third isn't that good of a game, it truly pisses me off that NoA was trying to weasel out of following through on its commitment of delivering this game to us. Whatever it was that scared NoA straight (I think it was a pissed off Itagaki), I'm very thankful that we will end up getting the game, and in physical format no less. But having to once again twist NoA's arm behind its back to get it to do its job has truly gotten tiresome.
I wish the best for XSEED loved em ever since Fragile dreams on the wii. They even brought us Pandoras Tower when Noa wouldn't and Last Story!
@akaDv8R True. Doesn't seem likely NA would suddenly start caring but since everyone is saying it I'll assume it's correct...Then again Siliconera, the main reason I'd give it any credence,(the 180 not the neogaf post about Xseed being mad) has been going downhill...or off a cliff. I don't think they messed up this time though, even though they suck these days. They(Siliconera) definitely have an in with Xseed but I wouldn't be surprised if one of those guys assumed something that wasn't directly told to them. I'm still assuming it's correct though.
This game should have been canceled and Fatal Frame should be AT LEAST pre-order only or an online retailer exclusive. Really sad to me they don't see the value in release it as a disc based game. 16GB and you don't think it's suited for a disc? C'mon nintendo.
@Ralizah pretty sure Devil's Third is also digital-only in NA
@PolarKoalaBear Oh I'm going to buy it......on a half off or more sale now. Would have purchased new for $60 if a physical release was happening anid more for a LE release. Still have my Rodea preorder for $75 and Senran Kagura 2, so I'm not afrad to spend on cool and great releases.
Also, if you're a Fatal Frame fan, try DreadOut on Steam, great clone of the series and actually made me jump quite a few times. Doesn't look too hot though but meh, still good.
@Klimbatize Look at the low standard of some of the games we've seen on the Wii U and 3DS eShop. You may have Nostradamus-level predictive powers but when the press release for Mad Man Football came in, we had no reason to doubt it would ever be made - it's certainly no worse than some of the other titles which actually made it onto the eShops. As for it being a joke, it was certainly an expensive one for the developer as he even went as far as to mail out promotional materials to our office in the UK, with colour-printed artwork and much more besides. I think you second assumption of him being out of his depth is more likely - we've seen plenty of bedroom programmers try to produce content for the eShops lately.
@TheBadGuy Thanks dude. The packet of unmarked bills is in the post
Wow, really? Nostradamus-level predictive powers implies almost nobody could see it coming. The majority of people could, based on those "expensive" materials he produced, among a host of other things, including the fabrications on his blog.
And yet you don't give so much credibility and space to these other bedroom programmers. Perhaps a lesson has been learned.
Peace and love.
@Jimtaro I'm well aware of what constitutes professional journalism. The reality is they called it a "rumour", which is to say it's based off an unconfirmed source. A "rumour" is not factual and should not be regarded as such, if an individual is unable to ascertain the difference between "news" and a "rumour" i don't feel as if anyone should be compelled to cater to such ignorance. The first word of the headline is "rumour", this isn't poor journalism, it isn't reasonable to expect an ideal source to be cited or to regard this article as being irrefutably factual.
Still this? I agree with your definitions and indeed what you're saying. It just feels a little click bait to be centring posts around unfounded rumours (and then to be told the source is genuine so it must be true). There is no journalism there, it's just a cut and paste equivalent of what he said/she said. Like I mentioned in a previous comment, I hadn't experienced that sort of thing here and knowing how it's frowned upon by a vast majority of websites (due to the reader backlash as evidenced here) I was taken aback to see it still being practiced.
Poof, another relationship down the drain...
Nintendo.....what the bleep are you doing?!
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