Topic: This sickens me!

Come now. You know my point was about control schemes. Saying "is it possible on any other platform" is short for saying "does any other control scheme work," as I clarified already in post #21.

FPS/TPS are, as I already pointed out in post #15, not motion controlled, but use the IR pointer. (And interestingly, the biggest complaint about FPS games on wii is how awkward launching grenades with nunchuk shakes is.)

As for sports and party games, as I already said in post #11 and #34, I was excluding those from consideration when I said that "Ninty keeps motion controls to a bare minimum in their regular (non-minigame collection) game series" and "Ninty's core IPs have very minimal motion controls".

Oh, but you just did: "Have you played the WWE 2008 or 09? It's a complete waggle fest. Yes its sorta fun in all but totally hurts arms when you wake up lol"

And in any case, I never cited uncomfortableness as a reason not to include motion controls. I'm getting the feeling that you're not actually reading what I wrote before accusing me of not reading what you wrote, and that hurts my feelings, Chrono. **sniff!***

The WWE games are ok and that entire post was just a joke especially waking up with sore arms. Who plays a game so hard that their arms hurt when they wake up? Come on now.

"but use the IR pointer. (And interestingly, the biggest complaint about FPS games on wii is how awkward launching grenades with nunchuk shakes is.)"
So it doesn't use motion controls yet you shake the Nunchuck to throw a grenade. Nice one smarts.

"Ninty's core IPs have very minimal motion controls".
Because like I said before their not suited best like other games are. Super Mario Galaxy is genius and all you have to do to swing Mario is shake the Wiimote or nunchuck. What else do what to be implied? Shake the Wiimote and Nunchuck up and down to make Mario run? Jeez if you dislike the Wii and the game's control scheme why do you own a Wii or even come to this site?

Motion controls are great and are a new way to play games on Wii. Thats the point of the Wii to play with motion controls but you don't understand that. It doesn't matter if its unnecessary to imply motion controls to a game on Wii since the Wii is motion based so now some developers(still with me here?), are now making decisions to not imply motion based controls for their upcoming games.

Ah well, I figured it was too good to last.

Any control system can be implemeted poorly or incorrectly. That is really a non starter.

You really are the 1 vs 100 ClicketyChick.
Like DaDun said.

Not one vs 100 - we all represent our own selfs here....

It is 1 vs vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 - you get the idea.

I have no idea why I owuld be banned for explaining why your analysis of SMG's motion controls was false and flawed Clickety Click. Or for challenging your very generalisitic and generic arguments of motion controls period.

And I do not want you banned. I like you

Oh god, I've seen the error in my ways. I repent I repent!

The one sentence I wrote on SMG is hardly an "analysis". And as Chrono astutely pointed out, everything you described was either covered by a wiimote waggle (as I said SMG had) or it was IR and therefore not motion controls.

I love IR. It's the best thing about the Wii and makes games awesome. I usually hate motion controls. There are very few games that could not have their motion controls replaced with button/d-pad presses/analog stick movements (and that would probably improve many games to boot.)

Now that Ninty has come out and admitted that the wiimote's motion controls are broken and too insensitive by releasing M+, you can hardly blame all flaky wiimote-based motion controls on devs not implementing it well.

Except they did not admit anything of the sort.

Motion plus is a peripheal, not a replacement.

Does NSMB use Motion plus? No.
Does Galaxy 2? No.

So....failure to launch - great Wii games have used common motion effectivley and will continue to do so. And motion plus adds to what cannot be done smoothly.

If you want to judge consoles on the worst games in their library at expense of the best - go ahead. YOu will find a lot to love, erm hate - over three decades worth !

@Clickety O well, cherish the memory of how it once was. Since you like IRs i guess you like wii shooters like medal of honor right (in other words, whats ur friend name if u have it)
The sad part of this all is that even though this is a very interesting thread with good arguments on both sides a mod will probably ban this for some reason or another for going too far. I rather would like to keep reading these arguments though since its not a fight, its just a debate kind of.

SMG2 probably still only has the same wiimote shake that SMG has as far as motion controls go. NSMB is played with the wiimote sideways, old-school style. The only motion controls it has is a wiimote shake for the propeller suit to boost you in the air... which brings me back to my point that Ninty tends to keep motion controls to a minimum in their core games.

Why? Well, because motion controls are unresponsive and insensitive, which is why they've had to bring out M+ to make the wiimote do what it was supposed to do from the beginning. "Unresponsive" was admitted and addressed by Ninty touting M+'s 1:1 motion displayed in real time without the lag; "Insensitive" was admitted and addressed by Ninty's addition of a rotational sensor.

Note that the games they make that don't use M+ have barely any motion controls at all, while their games that support M+ have tons of motion control. Why? Because M+ motion works, wiimote motion doesn't in most cases. All in all, this is tantamount to Ninty admitting that the wiimote's motion controls were unresponsive and insensitive. and the most likely reason why they don't use it much in their core series.

Brawl's servers are crap, your right. You reconfirmed what I was saying though. It was the "fastest" selling not "most" selling. After it's 1st month it's sells drifted like a slow fart. This is not the movie industry. SSBB should still be selling now but obviously it's not. Plus, Ninty didn't shut down servers, they shut down the service. That means people weren't vocal enough about DLC. You can still play online to my knowledge.

More thought needs to go into the controls. Don't call it quits entirely. Another posts Chrono Cross made involved Madworld. Personally I think that games a complete joke but that's neither here nor there. To each his own. The motion was fun but not the selling point. If they showed someone using the Wiimote as a chainsaw in commercials I'm pretty sure more ppl would be like HELL YEAH! Marketing means a lot too. I'm also
stating more opinion than fact. A lot of ppl don't like to admit it. Everything I've been saying is based on observation, not rock hard evidence.

SSB and SMG failed?

I'm almost at the point where I want to say Mario doesn't count because he is, in fact, FRICKIN MARIO! Can anyone tell me of a Mario game that didn't sell regardless of platform? What about 3rd party games WITHOUT motion? Name a handful of successes. Btw, SMG does have motion/IR control. Smartly implemented at that.

I never said SSBB didn't sell well. People lined up to buy that amazing piece of software. I said it wasn't "evergreen". People who bought it already knew they wanted it. There was no word of mouth for that.

WSR on the other hand will likely continue to sell and sell until it surpasses the likes of SSBB.

"Note that the games they make that don't use M+ have barely any motion controls at all, while their games that support M+ have tons of motion control."

We've only seen one Nintendo game use Wii motion + and that was a sports game. A showcase game to show of the new hardware. And the games like New super Mario Bros. Wii don't use Motion + because it doesn't need to like many others such as Metroid Prime 3, SMG, SSB Brawl, MKWii, Excite Truck and Bots, Wario Land Shake It!, etc.
Not all games need to take full advantage of the Wiimote (and Nunchuck).

I don't know a bout any of their upcoming games having Motion + other than supposedly the new Zelda.

@Chrono Cross

Span Smasher, but I doubt anyone cares.

Although we received several reports and requests to lock this topic, I personally don't see any problem with it - sensible discussion of the Wii's control system is absolutely welcome here, as long as nobody's getting personal and everyone's playing nicely. If it gets heated again, click the Report button and a moderator will get on it immediately. Happy posting

I'm trying to be cool. Why would you lock it? I'm fully aware that there are ppl that disagree with me and that's fine. In fact I like hearing their argument. This is the most traffic I've ever gotten from one of my posts so please don't deny me this.

"The WWE games are ok and that entire post was just a joke especially waking up with sore arms. Who plays a game so hard that their arms hurt when they wake up? Come on now."

Well when your playing a social game of Bowling, and it gets real competitive then I can see a way!.

Although minor, the Motion controls Nintendo includes in their games, while might not feel significant to some actually are. One of the main points for including motion controls is to help add realism to a game, for example, Legend of Zelda, you swing the sword with motion, aim with the bow and arrow as if you shooting a bow and arrow. Mario Kart Wii, LETS YOU RACE WITH A STEERING WHEEL. Name me one other game that allows you to race with a steering wheel without wires that isn't plain awesome. But one of the best examples I can think of is Wario Ware. 15 different ways to play, with only about 5 forms that actually use the IR. And not even all the time. A great game, that relies on the motion, that very rarely has problems.