Topic: Paper Mario: Color Splash - OT

@Operative: Welp, you just summed up everything I was trying to say... it a much less aggressive fashion.

@Operative Couldn't have said it better myself.

@Seacliff: I was really perturbed by the casual way the game was introduced and dismissed as well. It's like even Nintendo people realize this is probably going to be a mediocre effort that isn't worth getting excited about.

I think the reason is that this game should have been announced later (think about how Paper Jam was revealed), but probably Nintendo isn't going to make another Direct before E3, and the E3 will be dedicated almost entirely to the NX. A way to show its main features was then this simple trailer, so that at E3 Nintendo can just release a video with some updates and maybe even a locally playable demo without having too much to explain and then go on...

No, I don't think this would be a red flag, because in Mario mythology Toads are mushrooms. In other words, they are fungus: they grow everywhere. Even in the original Paper Mario, you find Toad Houses in all sorts of remote locations ... and they look like, well, Toads. The scene where you see a pile of Toads emerge is ... from a house. So I just see this as the return of the classic Toad Houses.

I personally don't see Sticker Star as a reliable predictor because it was a portable game. It was the ONLY Paper Mario for a portable. In an interview with Sticker Star developers (https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/interview_the_team_behind_paper_mario_sticker_star), they emphasized the need to easily pick up and put down the game because it is meant for portables.

In addition, it needed to live on the same console as the Mario&Luigi RPGs. We're now talking about a Paper Mario for a HD home console, where gamers have different needs/expectations, where Mario&Luigi are not natural citizens, and where we have a shortage of RPGs anyway. So I think the requirements and emphasis going into this game will be different from those that operated on Sticker Star.

I don't think his point was that they are toads, everybody loves Toad, he meant that the toads all use the same generic toad design that all the recent Mario spinoffs have been overusing.

In previous games in the series, most toads had their own names, colors and even some special quirks and design elements. They also used to have general design elements based on where they lived, the generic toad uniform was usually reserved for the Mushroom Kingdom's castle, or main town.

Edit: this post summed it well:

@cwong15 What @Meowpheel said. The problem isn't that they're Toads, it's that they all have the same generic design!
Edit: Also, why are you bringing up Mario and Luigi and the lack of RPGs on Wii U? Didn't you hear? This isn't an RPG series, it's an action-adventure series!...That statement from Bill alone shows how much Nintendo doesn't know what they're doing with this series.

I distinctly recall seeing a green Toad somewhere in that Gamexplain video, so they are not all the same. Just how different, we shall see eventually.

Guys, I found the Nintendo UK site of Paper Mario Color Splash that actually...
contains a video which is ultimately the part of the Nintendo Direct dedicated to this game and...
a transcription of said video and...
screenshots from various versions of said video (also the American one, apparently)...

but RPG is in the Categories!!!!!! YAY!

And apparently it has already been rated by the PEGI and USK, by the way...

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U/Paper-Mario-Color-Splas...

What some people call "gimmicks" others might call "innovations". It depends on whether you like that change. One thing is for sure: you will never see another Paper Mario like the first two. That's because they sold lousy. Nintendo will always maintain continuity for franchises that sell well. That's another way of saying they will deliver what people want. People want Super Mario Bros, Mario Kart, Smash Bros and Zelda so they will keep getting them. But apart from a very vocal, angry but small minority, people do not want Paper Mario.

Nintendo will try to keep Paper Mario alive in one form or another. They will keep changing up mechanics, characters, art style, even a guest star in Mario&Luigi ... anything to find a large enough audience to justify making the game to begin with. Nintendo cares about their fans ... if there are enough of them. Fans of the first two just aren't enough. So the choice is not between innovative Paper Mario and classic Paper Mario, but between innovative Paper Mario and no Paper Mario.

I like what I saw in the trailer, and I'm really looking forward to Color Splash. I just hope the "no Paper Mario" camp — such as those signing the "cancel" petition — will not nix this game for those of us looking forward to it.

Being in the RPG category doesn't mean anything. KH2 was a action-adventure game but yet it was in the RPG category.

@cwong15: I think the line between Gimmick and Innovation, while is subjective, should be better defined if it really adds to the overall experience or was well implemented with actual balance around it.

This is why people consider the Sticker System in Sticker Star to be a gimmick, at least mixed with the concept of the lack of EXP or Leveling. The only reward you get for battling are Stickers and Coins to by more of said Stickers, but if you skip every battle possible, you won't be using Stickers. Meaning you have no need to earn coins or stickers because you aren't using them in the first place.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I have to give credit where it's due. I honestly think Color Splash is taking steps to fix the system. In battle, when an enemy is defeated, it appears your paint meter is slightly restored. Since paint is often used in the field to get through levels and find items and cards, it seems like battling would be needed to keep a balance in order. Since there is work to balance the system, I wouldn't stretch it to call it innovation.

All I'm saying is, I know why people look forward for this game, like yourself.

It's just not for me. Gimmicks or no, that still doesn't excuse the lack of innovative writing, interesting character designs, and a number of other things I liked authentically about the first two or three games.

That said, I don't think this 'vocal minority' is as small as you think, TTYD's sales are over 86% of SS's. With the 4+ million sales of SPM, that gave the franchise plenty of time to spread it's name, I don't think it's fair to judge the sales of a game in a franchise before it hit it's peak on a console with a third of the units as the one that homes the latter game with similar sales, yet came after it's peak. We have no way of knowing how well a new traditional PM game would sell in this generation.

Well said and pretty much sums up what made those games so wonderful. I always wondered why the writing got so lazy after Super Paper Mario. Then I found this old Iwata Asks article about Sticker Star:

Tanabe: "Yeah. With regard to the story, we did a survey over the Super Paper Mario game in Club Nintendo, and not even 1% said the story was interesting. A lot of people said that the Flip move for switching between the 3D and 2D dimensions was fun."

If the new game has a story as bad as in Sticker Star I´d rather not have any dialogue in it at all. But then it would be just battle after after battle in a linear world. Huh...
Nintendo, I have faith in you. Last time I played a truly well written Nintendo game was Kid Icarus Uprising (I haven't played FE Fates so I don't know how good story that one has). OK, M&L Dream Team had some funny moments too.

Story doesn't have to be a main focus in the game but in an RPG it's much appreciated.

To counter this point I think it's worth remembering what size studio Intelligent Systems are. In terms of staff they're about half way between Next Level Games and Platinum Games. They're a Monolith Soft or Retro Studio sized developer and if anything slightly bigger than both. I think it's selling them a bit short to say that they can't have two quality games on the go at once. Or at least have development of two games overlap in such a way that they can release two games over two years.

I'm calling New Super Paper Mario 3D World instead.

Or it could become New Super Paper Luigi 3D World for the 35th anniversary of Luigi instead.

God I am absolutely hysterical right now, this thread might actually have some life to it after all. We've got this one guy going 'HIM' all the time on Miyamoto like he's Lord Voldermort/ He Who Must Not Be Named or something. That might be the most petty thing I've ever seen on these forums, and all I can do in response is laugh. You get all sorts of people here it seems, I've seen that proven a lot here recently but this takes it to another level. Not in a good or a mature way, of course not, but another level nevertheless.

This might be the best thing to come from Color Splash so far.

Thanks 'HIM'.

@TomJ We know that you're upset. I am too. But we should try to keep things calm a bit. It's making people dismiss our criticisms of this game.

Also, I've found a list of things to do if you're dissatisfied with this. I will simply summarize what it said. If you have an issue with this game, these are some things that you should probably consider:
If you are not happy with the series' current direction and want things back to normal:
1. Try submitting reviews of the games on sites like Metacritic or Gamefaqs. Nintendo probably takes reviews into consideration, so it's worth a shot. Try to be as clear as possible with what you liked and didn't like, but most importantly, be polite with what you didn't like.
2. Buy the first game on Wii U. Make it known that yes, we are still interested in a game like the first two.
3. If you didn't like Sticker Star, submit a rating for it on the eshop. Show Nintendo that despite it selling well, people weren't particularly satisfied.
4. Just talk about the series and why you liked it. Go to social media outlets like Twitter or Miiverse and go crazy. However...don't bombard Nintendo's Twitter accounts. It may come across as annoying and immature, and might do more harm than good.

For those that are optimistic about Color Splash, but have a bad feeling that it'll just be Sticker Star:
1. Don't pre-order the game. If you're unsure about it, don't do this. It can be seen as a sign of demand.
2. Wait before buying it. Don't buy it at launch. Instead, wait for about a month or two and see what people think about it.
3. Just buy it used instead.

For those that plan on picking it up:
If the game sucks, spread the word. Submit reviews, submit a rating, head on over to forums, just spread the word.

If you don't want it at all:
Just don't buy it. Show that you are not interested in the game, and that this was a bad move on Nintendo's part. And if you're worried that Nintendo would just kill the series altogether if the game flops, it's more likely that they'd look at this and try to find out what went wrong.

I'm not sure if any of this would work, but it's worth a shot.

@TomJ Same. I could go on about how good the first three were, but Sticker Star would be less than good, and this one I'm just not feeling it.

Criticism of this game is more than fine, I for one know I sure as heck ain't pre-ordering it or even buying it altogether but I agree with the above post that people's reactions to this game have been really, really, really silly and gone really, really, really over the top. If this thread can be maintained in a more civil way then there's hope yet, but between Mr 'If it's Nintendo then it's bad' a few pages back, the petition (of course there was one) to get this game cancelled and now this it is hard to say that what this game has been subject to since its announcement has been simple 'criticism' that is expected and happens with each and every game that is announced, made and released. It's not just the points you make it's how you make them that is important as they say. Hopefully people don't go do OTT anymore now that it's been a while and people have calmed down a bit.