Topic: Paper Mario: Color Splash - OT

@DarthNocturnal:, which would be interesting and something different (at least, where getting partners. sorta, even if there not the ones we wanted, but still pretty cool idea to summon shy guys or others.)

@DarthNocturnal: That would be cool like how Kirby Planet Robobot is the Kirby version of the early Mega Man X games.

On one hand, the footage of this game was rather uninspired and boring. On the other, it's Intelligent Systems, who have an excellent track record.

This excellent track record didn't prevent the release of Sticker Star, unfortunately. For me Color Splash seems to be a rushed developed game like Mario Tennis Ultra Smash.

@Chandlero: As long as we have no idea how long the game will be and what content will be in it, you cannot say it's a rushed project. It's fine if you disliked Sticker Star, but to hate on everything that resembles it, is a bit immature. Let's wait and see before we make a prejudgement, shall we?

@Octane: I said: "For me Color Splash seems..."
It is my opinion and it seems to be. I am pretty sure I can say that and being mature at the same time. It is just my first impression. And I never said that I hate Color Splash. I really hope that it will be a great game...

I can definitely see that being the case as well. But remember, Sticker Star changed direction mid-development. If this game started with a goal of being like it is now, everything could be much more balanced.

I don't understand why some rush to judge this game on so little information. The initial reveal was focused revealing the new game mechanics. You wouldn't expect a lot of spoilers ("no story!"). Also, since all the action seems to be in the very early part of the game, you wouldn't expect all gameplay elements ("no companions!") to be introduced at once.

I'm also baffled that folks only compare it against Sticker Star. That game came out for a portable. I'd say that Nintendo would use different criteria for what should go into a home console game. The last Paper Mario on the home console was Super Paper Mario, which had lots (maybe too much) of story and NPCs. There were some things I did not like about SPM — 2D focus, lack of turn-based combat — that clearly do not apply to this game.

Lastly, consider the fact that this takes place on an entirely new location, Prism Island. I think Nintendo set this away from Mushroom Kingdom to allow introduction of completely new characters and elements. I think there is lots more to this game than we have seen in the initial reveal. I'm looking forward to hearing more.

One bit of interesting trivia: the primary colors chosen (red, green, blue) are light-based primary colors, not pigment primary colors (red, yellow, blue). This of course matches up with the Prism Island theme but not the paint theme. I'd be curious about what drove that reasoning, and if that empty "fountain" implies even more colors to add to Mario's supply.

And it looked exactly like Sticker Star. Same battle system, thing stickers are back, generic Toads, staple Mario enemies, the only original character shown was an object related to the game's them, there's a world map, the only area outside the town was a standard grass-level, you can't level up, the Sticker Star vibes are all over the place!

Allright, we don't know if this game has a story. I will give you that. But considering that the paint bucket looks like it's going to be this game's Kersti (a floating object that's based off of the game's central theme), I'm guessing we're not getting partners.

The reason we're comparing it to Sticker Star is because it looked exactly like Sticker Star.

I know that we haven't seen anything, but don't you find it a little odd how there's nothing but Toads here? Heck, Peach and Mario weren't even accompanied by Toadsworth! Just another generic Toad!

Look, I admire your optimism, but I just don't have any faith in this game. Yes, I know, we haven't seen everything, but there are just too many Sticker Star vibes all over this! If you're staying optimistic, good for you. But I have a bad feeling about this...
PS I wasn't doing this to call you out. I did this to explain why people aren't all that optimistic about this.

Ok, to put this into context: Paper Mario: Sticker Star was released in 2012. And as many correctly pointed out, it was a game changed during development, just look at this screenshot that showed an original location that was removed from the final game (from http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/4057/Paper+Mario+to+Nintendo+3...
http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/48/papermarionintendo_214878.png

And the design of the Goombas and of the Pokeys was different, like that of the old Paper Mario, and there was even a partner:
http://www.gamereactor.eu/media/48/papermarionintendo_214880.png

All this was during the E3 2010, so Sticker Star was developed almost from scratch in 2 years.

This is being developed in 4 years with Sticker Star as predecessor (because it's clear that Sticker Star is at least inspiring this game).
So we cannot say that the game will necessarily be identical to Sticker Star, as many rough aspect of it might have been due to the need to have the game finished in time while developing new mechanics. Ultimately in many aspects Sticker Star is polished (few glitches if any at all, bosses coordinated with the soundtrack, elements that responded based on how you tilted the 3DS...), and you cannot have a polished game in 2 years without sacrificing something, as Paper Jam showed (that game is not very polished and the developers admitted that they had to cut many aspects, both from the story and the locations).
So, I don't think we can spell doom, but we should keep expectations in check, and if we end up with many Toads as NPCs, a simple story, not many new characters and battles based on consumables without many important rewards we cannot say that Nintendo didn't warn us before.

By the way, I think that the three colors showed are Blue, Red and Yellow, which is a mix of primary and secondary colors.

I can't see any evidence for the game being "rushed" based on the presentation. It actually looks like quite a lot of work has been put into making the environments look as good as they do.

I'd also add that localisations aside this is the only thing Intelligent Systems is working on currently. It's not coming out until the second half of this year unless I've misunderstood something. Fire Emblem Fates came out in Japan mid last year and based on their recent releases they're typically working on two major releases at a time. So unless they're doing a bunch of other stuff that we don't know about this game is getting plenty of attention.

@NintendoFan64: I'm afraid I still think you're jumping to conclusions based on art style. I'm not at all convinced that the battle system is the same as Sticker Star. Stickers were consumables. If that Gamexplain video is right, these cards are not consumables. In this respect, it's back to basics: cards are basically badges from the original Paper Mario. Just as you keep badges indefinitely but consume FP when using them, here it looks like you might keep cards indefinitely and consume paint.

Are you certain you can't level up? Even in the limited gameplay that we've seen, Mario's max paint capacity increased between scenes. Just as FP increased with combat in original Paper Mario, here it looks like paint capacity might analogously increase.

Are you certain you won't get partners? Just because there is 1 companion in the very first location does not rule out any other partners later in the story. In Super Paper Mario, Tippi is the very first Pixl you gain, but she is a special Pixl that is (almost) always your constant companion. You do get other Pixls later. But even then, no matter which Pixl you select, Tippi remains visible and her abilities are always present. Having a primary companion alongside combat partners is not new to the series.

As to there being toads only, I see this as Nintendo keeping the NPC reveal for later to focus on the new battle mechanic. Do you really think a Mario game would take place outside of the Mushroom Kingdom and still have absolutely no new characters, no "natives"? Think of when Mario goes to a vacation spot in Super Mario Sunshine or Flipside in Super Paper Mario: every time he goes off-kingdom, there are always new characters. Heck, we have not even seen the main villain yet, nor the cause of the color loss. Sticker Star was set in the Mushroom Kingdom. This is Prism Island. There will be new concepts and characters.

Well, seeing how you can buy and get multiple repeats of the same cards, and the fact that there's no real evidence that suggests you can reuse them, I'd say they're probably not reusable.

But, well, we don't really know.

An hypothesis is that you build decks: once you use a card, its colors are drained (and you can clearly see this in the videos) and you have to use the other cards of the same kind in a deck before you can reuse it. So, if you have a flashy hammer, a worn-out hammer and a normal hammer, after you use the flashy hammer you have to use the other two before you can use it again. Of course, entering in a new battle resets the deck. This hypothesis is corroborated by some cards being completely behind others in the trailers.

I have never brought up the artstyle in my argument. I don't know where you're getting that from.

As @Meowpheel said, since you can get repeats of the same card, I'm guessing that they aren't reusable. Plus there's the fact that they're still your only form of attack, which is still a bad thing (and is also a bit ridiculous, when Mario already has a hammer and can jump on enemies outside of battle), since if you end up running out of paint in battle, you'll be screwed.

Well, in the Japanese footage, Mario gains coins instead of EXP in battle, so it look like you can't level up in the traditional sense. I'm guessing that this will be something like the hearts in Sticker Star, or how when beating a boss, you gained a new sticker page.

I get what you're saying, but the paint can (which is one of the laziest ideas for a character I've ever seen, btw) looks like it's in the same boat as Kersti, and it doesn't even follow you around or show up in battle!

But they didn't even do anything to the Toads' designs on account of the new location. They just look like normal, everyday Toads! If the natives don't even look any different from the normal denizens of the Mushroom Kingdom, that should probably be a red flag!

Well, considering that it was a Shyguy sucking the life out of that Toad, the only enemies we've seen were standard Mario villains, and there's a scene where Mario is peeling off the Bowser tape from Sticker Star, I'm guessing that the villain is gonna be Bowser...AGAIN.

I'm doubting that, to be honest. The only new concepts and characters I foresee being in this is the paint thing and the paint can.

@DiscoGentleman: I bailed out of this thread some pages ago.

As much as I can complain about the game itself, I don't think I can state what hadn't been said, all that I can say is that the 45 seconds we got gave us more than enough to say that this game is much closer to Sticker Star than any other game in the series. And I won't spend my precious $60 just to 'give the game a chance'.

What's more disappointing, however, is how causally this game was revealed. Bill makes a paint pun in the direct, leading to a brief talk about the game, then they go straight to Pokken. While I'll admit the game graphically looks nice, this REALLY looks like a game Intelligent Systems only started after finishing FE: Fates last year and is being created for the soul (or soulless) purpose of filling up a spot in the Wii U's schedule, much like Mario Tennis.

Argue against me all you want, but I had the same feel about Mario Tennis as I do with this game.

@Seacliff: Well it makes sense that way as Color Splash has a generic 2016 release date while Pokken comes out next week. What I found more surprising was the EU Direct didn't even include Twilight Princess HD and Pokken. Pretty sure Hyrule Warriors Legends would've also been skipped if there wasn't a new season pass incoming.

@DiscoGentleman: I'm not saying the game is awful, going by game explain, I have a good feeling the card system is a slight improvement over the Sticker System with the use of the Paint meter acting like an MP meter. I'll admit that's showing that they care to balance out some not-so-perfect mechanics.

'We know almost no facts about it' is really only something you can say if you only seen the trailer once for a single region. Between the Japanese, UK, and American trailers of the game, I already know everything I knew the game had to have for me not to get interested: Lack of an Experience Point System (nothing but coins and paint come from defeating enemies, if there was EXP, we should see that as well), Lack of Partners (Going through three areas alone, at least, should be enough to make this a safe statement, there's also a paint bucket that appears to replace Kristi), Bowser as a Villain (Hinted at the Bowser Tape also seen in Sticker Star), unoriginal character designs (between the three areas, there's only Toads, Goombas, Koopas, and Shy Guys. There COULD be more monsters original monsters later on, but they might also be other classic Mario enemies).

I don't really consider any of these a stretch, considering all these elements were also lacking in Sticker Star, the most recent and almost the best selling game in the franchise. Unless a future trailer proves any of the above wrong, It's hard to believe they can add anything we can't easily predict either.

We don't need to see hours of gameplay of the next 2D Mario game just to know if it will have Mushrooms, Fire Flowers, and the ability to stomp on enemies.

@Grumblevolcano: Okay, fair enough, I can't blame them for putting more focus to games they already have release dates for. The reveal was still underwhelming though.

I mean... it's really not a stretch at all for people to be likening the game to Sticker Star. In fact, Nintendo was pretty clear with that in the trailer. If the game was gonna be anything else, they'd obviously would have shown off the things that would have set it apart. Partners definitely would have been featured, and unique NPC's as well.

They knew what they were doing, and where there's smoke, there's fire. Doesn't mean the game will be bad, just that it's so clearly built upon Sticker Star.