Topic: The everything Xbox thread

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@Octane "Most powerful console ever" should not translate directly into "each game will be a whole new visual experience than what you've experienced before." If consumer expectations have been set to mean "power=GPU performance", that needs to be fixed. There's many advantages to more powerful hardware beyond just improved GPU output. By that standard PC gamers shouldn't be buying Baldur's Gate anymore, the graphics are so passe even by Switch standards.....

@Ralizah They truly abandoned PS4 in the past few years and more or less directly stated they did so back when they started. They're using the "But we released Skyward Sword, so we didn't abandon Wii at all!" routine, verbatim.

If what Sony is doing recently counts as great support to their fans, you're making me wonder if I really do need a PS5. (Ugh, Persona.....curse you, Atlus!) Also, how about Nintendo's amazong 2020! Stellar support there....we got not one, but TWO games this year!

As for MM, they quite literally took an expansion for a PS4 game, and added graphics features to justify forcing buying new hardware. No console I can ever recall has launched with a tarted up expansion pack as its main release title, and no console I can ever recall held hostage a current gen game by adding some vfx to tell you it "needs" the new hardware to run. It could have been a PS4 farewell. It could have been a cross-gen release. It could have been "free upgrade in visuals to the best if you buy PS5!" It could have been a full sequel to break open the new gen with a huge bang and showcase a big launch game. But no. They took a DLC campaign, made it "require" running on max settings, and told you to buy new hardware to play it. And somehow "fans" have decided Halo should have "required" running at max settings and been an XSeX exclusive.

I'm not sure what kind of consumer actually demands that companies require additional spending simply so that only the best experience with a smaller audience except a spoiled brat accustomed to buying the best money can buy and remaining above the peasantry. Except the real money kids are running elite PC rigs, so it's more like the kid with the pimped out Civic that feels like he's in the Maserati club now.

What frustrates me about is the lunacy of the fans. Instead of celebrating MS following the PC model to a more open model of scalable software that runs on the hardware you have, Sony is encouraging consumers to demand getting screwed and forced into marching to their beat. The nVidia model that PC had finally shed: We've decided you will buy a new GPU now. And fans have now backlashed against not being screwed over so much, to the point MS is backtracking away from that. What could have been a good turning point in the industry has been forced back to abusiveness by the fans themselves. For what? More pixel effects?

So Microsoft has a cross-gen fun looking big game. Sony has a tarted up DLC locked to a $500 router dongle. Again I ask. WHY WHY WHY are we starting a new gen when nobody has a thing to show for it (other than manufacturing an unnecessary reason in Sony's case?) I at least have to side with MS here. If the big games are really 2 years away they're at least saying "hey if you buy early you get some improvements in everything between now and the real games that actually require it." Sony's saying "we're going to lock you out of content you could have had now to force you to build our install base for future content."

That's not to say that MM doesn't look good. But when I look at what both consoles are doing at launch, I see one company pulling a fast one and withholding popular content as bait, and I see the other company basically giving you choice to upgrade or not, which is somehow irritating people that wanted to pay money to feel elite. I'm more likely to pick the company that's giving me a choice than the company that's moving goal posts. It sets up the framework for how they'll treat me in the future, as well.

Ironically, I do have an interest in 4k...... I said before I think 4k is actually more important in rendering than in display or film content. The result of downsampling a 4k rendered scene gives a much more "film-like" 1080p image with much better edges. Film is already downsampled from celluloid or much much higher res sensors and already has that effect on the 1080p master. Games need it in real time to match what film has. In that sense I do think 4k rendering is actually important for graphical improvement even on a 1080p display.

In my case I'm also interested in a 2k/4k display even for 1080p content because I use a monitor a foot in front of my face, not a TV, and the screen door effect drives me nuts....upsampled 1080p on the screen-door-less display is easier on the eyes (I like seeing Switch games in video on my QHD laptop more than my 1080p monitor for example even though the game is the same res.)

HDR is a mess, on the other hand. I hear some people going as far as saying some games aren't even worth it without HDR. Only the highest of high-end TVs have "real" HDR with localized dimming, monitors don't yet have HDR at all (well they do, but HDR400 is basically "simulated HDR", not HDR.) And even HDR1000 on the most premium of OLED displays still doesn't actually meet the HDR spec......... HDR is afaik, a joke, even if some content uses it well.

So there's more to 4k than the way the industry toutes "more details!" That's why even checkerboarding has some advantage and I bought a Pro. Even for games like Trails of Cold steel and P5.

Also, you've played Doom...you like Doom, right? Just play Halo. You'll like it Splatoon aside, I'm not a big shooter fan either, but Halo is just fun.... very arcade. I'm not a "Halo fan" specifically......but the campaign, especially the first third of the first game, ODST, and Halo 3 is lots of fun in a fast, but tactical way. It's the inverse of Doom which is "go real fast and shoot stuff fast". It's methodical, requires thinking the scenario out, but without being as slow as most cover shooters. It's the sweet spot between Doom and Gears and is the anti-COD. And with the color pallet is very "Sega-esque" in a way.

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@NEStalgia Nintendo's 2020 support, THUS FAR, has been better than in 2018 or 2019. Remember that Nintendo backloads their yearly support, so almost everything big releases from Sept - Dec. Yet this year we've gotten a Paper Mario game, an Animal Crossing game, an upgraded port of Tokyo Mirage, an extensive remaster of Xenoblade Chronicles, and probably a few other releases as well, which bodes well for their end-of-year support.

Sony doesn't release a TON of games every year, but they're mostly pretty high-quality. And their support has been consistent across the generation (except early on, because Playstation consoles generally start out kind of pitifully before building up speed and becoming unstoppable juggernauts as the years go on; sort of the opposite of Nintendo, which generally supports its consoles best in their first few years on the market). At this point, with the PS4 having the best third-party support, by far, AND first-party exclusives good enough to rival Nintendo's output in terms of critical acclaim, it's hard to see how they're going to even have any competition this next generation from Microsoft.

Microsoft... they release games, I guess, but, like, who out there is actually buying stuff like Crackdown 3, State of Decay, etc.? I'm pouring over this list of games they've published this generation, and... I dunno, maybe it's my weeby, anti-Western bias speaking, but most of them sound like something I'd buy in a bargain bin. Or they're sequels to series I have no interest in (Gears of War was fine when I was a teenager, but I was THOROUGHLY over that series after GoW2, and yet those games are still coming out, and, by the looks of gameplay footage, with minimal gameplay or stylistic evolution). The Xbone had some promise early on (Rare Replay was a great idea; Sunset Overdrive was a nice exclusive to net; Scalebound was still a thing that wasn't canceled), but it just feels like the company's first-party support has been stuck in the mud since 2016 or so.

Basically, if Sony "abandoning" the PS4 involves releasing multiple acclaimed, super-AAA exclusive releases on it, what can even be said about how Microsoft is supporting the Xbone? I know you have a bone to pick with Sony, but the narrative is just contradicting reality at this point. Even some of the PS5's early games will be cross-gen.

Now, to Microsoft's credit, they've ended the generation with better third-party support than they started it. The lack of Japanese support for the Bone was pretty dire early on, but they've made some big gains gaining access to series like Final Fantasy (the XIII games were on the 360, but I almost feel like it was detriment exposing the Xbox base to the worst set of games in the mainline series, lol), Yakuza, etc. Although it's still a far way off from the 360 and its strong JRPG exclusives.

You might not like Sony's approach of competing with big exclusives, but it's a time-tested strategy that works. Sony, and, more importantly, Sony's base, still believe in the concept of console generations. I wager that Microsoft does as well, if only by necessity. Halo won't require an upgrade, but good luck playing Fable, The Medium, Avowed, etc. on weak Xbone hardware. Sony is acknowledging and leaning into their strengths early on (something that they DIDN'T do with the PS4, which had almost nothing good to play on it until 2017, lol). Microsoft's strategy just seems confused by comparison.

In general, I feel like Microsoft would be better off competing as a sort of budget home console brand (they're halfway there with GamePass, and 3/4ths of the way there if they opt for free online) instead of opting for expensive consoles with ridiculously powerful GPUs because they're still overcompensating for years of humiliation over launching less powerful hardware at a higher overall price.

On that note, and on @Octane 's point, I don't think he's saying that everything on an Xbox Series X needs to blow your socks off. Rather, if you're going to go the premium home console route, and talk incessantly about how many flops your new device has, then it's best not to heavily promote it with a launch game that looks like an uprezzed 360 shooter.

RE: Halo, I have nothing against the series, and if I end up getting a Series S, I can't picture myself not at least trying the Halo games on GamePass. But they're nothing I'd buy a console to play. I might download them on Steam in a deep sale otherwise, but... shrug Besides, isn't the big appeal of the series for most people the online component?

In general, I'm not impressed with the 'premium home console' route. I continue to maintain that slight improvements in image quality isn't worth wasting tremendous hardware resources. Microsoft could standardize 1440p in its games, still have them look good on 4K sets, and dramatically underprice Sony with their new hardware. But this is why I like PC gaming: it's expensive, but you can improve games in the ways that are important to you. You can run games at lower resolutions at 120fps. You can play games with about a hundred different types of controllers. And the PC has done universal BC for decades before the Xbox team decided to make some half-hearted attempt at it on home consoles.

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@BlueOcean I don't even think it's that it's an old beta. It might get some improvements here and there, but ultimately, I think it already looks pretty good. It looks nothing like a 360 games. People are comparing it to X1X remakes of old 360 games more or less "inside" Infinite, and declaring it looks "the same." Well...yeah, that was the point of MCC, wasn't it?

@Ralizah Hey, I'm not declaring what "the mainstream" likes. If I were praising what the mainstream likes I'd be singing about how great P2W is on an iPad and heralding the Switch eShop.... But the point is OG X-BOX was all about Windows in the living room. Bill Gates even said it outright. It was a half truth, the real purpose was to counter PS2's erosion into PC gaming and developer shift away from DirectX toward OpenGL. DirectX was Windows' lock on gaming and thus the WIntel ecosystem. That couldn't pass, so "Project DirectX Box" started. The secondary purpose was to Trojan Windows into the living room (culminating with the Mattrick TV, TV, TV, disaster.) (Of course Windows got into the living room via tablets, eventually so it was a mute point by the X1 era.) Even 360 got weird by not focusing on the power which was the whole focus of the X-BOX brand originally. They lost their way for a weird while.

Point is, OG-XBOX started as trying to be a PC in a cheap convenient box. I never bought one, but was following it in the run-up to launch. It was an exciting change in the console space from the perspective of an all-PC gamer at the time. They infamously got caught at CES with an "X-BOX" that was actually just a plastic shell hiding cables that ran under the table to a quad-Xeon NT4 box. It was so PC that they were literally just demoing a PC without a real X-BOX to show.

360 went backward an became very "console", and became moreso as they tried futilely to chase Wii, but X1, especially post S/X has gone back to the PC-like roots, and that's what I see happening with XSeX as well. Seriously, if thew were to build a Surface for Games device....it would basically be XSeX with a screen (and,, yes, access to Steam and GoG. )

That's a good number of reasons though. Since you also have PC still, that means you'd be running in 4 ecosystems....PC, XB, PS, Nin. PC I assume still would remain your "lead" so you probably aren't going to fully appreciate where PS/XB differ too much in environment. The big thing, to me, is, primarily with a digital library, XB is just much more PC-like than the weird Nintendo-like Sony environment. We'll see what PS5 brings, but since XSeX is, literally, a Win10 box, and Sony OSes are..... "unique".... (I've never seen a Sony device with a decipherable interface....except only Vita.)

The risk is high Series S is digital-only though. 50/50. It would fit well with the low cost console that fits into the service model plans. But the downmarket (shall we say, Switch market?) is going to be buying a lot of physical Walmart games cheap.... It won't be a cloud streaming box though, that's a certainty.

Japanese gaming's rebound is cool, but weird. The Japanese mostly aren't buying stuff. PS4 sales look like XBox sales there at this point. And the small amount of Japanese console gamers that do exist are buying Western games. They're the inverse weebs....."jeebs?" So it's Japanese developers making that content for the Westerners. Though that also bodes well for XBox since they're really making it for where Westerners play. Squeenix has been showing more at XBox shows than Sony shows for a while now. Squeenix+MS is starting to seem cozy. And Sony has that great connection between their PC support and the Sega history with MS (and XBox...remember, MS did the OS for Dreamcast, and Sega helped design OG-X-Box....) Which is maybe one reason I do like XBox is ironically, it's Japanese-ness. A lot of what it embodies feels like the continuation of the Sega days because it more or less is the continuation of Sega's consoles. Right down to the "power!" marketing. And PSO2........

PS1 era I discovered well into the PS2 era. Never understood a VCR company making a console or why people bought it. Nintendo and Sega were the only real consoles Then after PS3 launch era it stopped being very Japanese.

But yes, those 100 other games will be on both systems. But, well we can't speak for PS5 yet, but when I consider "do I buy this on PS4 Pro or X1X, knowing it will also run on XSeX and PS5....which platform do I buy it on? There's never a moment I think PS4. Particularly with digital. Everything just "lives" more conveniently on XB without making me do weird Nintendo-like things to store and access my own data like PS does.

Some of those Japanese companies are living in the past. Yes, they look at how things are received at home, but I think that's mostly a national pride issue, not a business concern. Look at actual console sales numbers there. Look at actual game sales numbers there on non-portable systems. It's bleak. Japanese don't play games at home, and the audience of play has skewed very young. (Though ignore the post-pandemic sales as there is the obvious temporary spike for that, but that's not a long-term business trend.) Most of those companies could lose 100% of Japan sales and still be just fine. Playstation left home for a reason...and treated Japan as an afterthought for PS4 launch for a reason. Of course Nintendo is still insular, but they have good reason to be. Falcom is just slow on the uptake. They lived in the PSP/Vita almost exclusively for so long they're just now emerging from the bubble. Their PS focus is misguided at best as it's not where their audience ever was, but they seem to be reversing course on that pretty quick and pushing everything to Switch through NIS. Smart move. There's still a Japanese market to focus on first, there.

@Anti-Matter The latter era of the 360 MS was trying to focus on increasing their dominance over Sony and taking out the Wii as well. Thus their focus on casual games. But Wii was an unstoppable juggernaut stoppable only by Nintendo's usual blindness, and XBox was playing AGAINST their own audience in doing so. It created some content aimed at you, and the Wii audience in general, but it ultimately worked against their own interest. That was the last gasp of the Wii era more than anything. It definitely was aimed at you, but at that point the "Wii market" you're really part of had mostly started the move to mobile and was a drying pond.

At launch, yes, PS4 definitely looked much better than X1. But most of that difference has reversed or disappeared since then. You're right, it's mostly the same library (See that, @ralizah, anti gets it ),

Both PS5 and Series X are both about power and AAA games. Only Nintendo stands apart from that really. PS5 and XSeX are chasing the same market. Game Pass is a good value though. It's a pool of rental games, and it includes indie games (lots of them) so there are certainly games in there that would appeal to you as well (Overcooked was/is on it for example, Portal Knights was on it, etc....so it's not devoid of content for you, BUT because you have limited tastes it's probably not a great monetary value for you, either. Then again, PS5 isn't going to be that much better for you. Here and there, sure. But really, you're firmly in the world of Switch.

@Octane Halo Infinite has always really been "X1X's Halo." It was announced years ago. Now, they could have gone full Sony and taken their big name game and put some lipstick on it and declared it only capable of running on XSeX and held it hostage. But they didn't. It's a crossgen game that looks a little better on an XSeX (do any of us really believe either of these new consoles will be available post-Thanksgiving without blood sacrifices? ) The gameplay going back to the "good old days" was the promised design direction in response to fans angry about the changes. That was the stated purpose of the game. There hasn't been "Just another Halo Game" since Halo 3.... It's like what would happen if an Ocarina type Zelda game released after a decade of only BotW type Zeldas.

Yeah, PC has the competition which is a big factor.....I'm not too privvy to that. I stopped gaming on PC before digital really became "a thing" - there was Steam and more or less only Steam, and it sucked compared to buying physical discs, for which there was competition. And at the time Steam was WAAAY nastier and more restrictive than any of the console digital stores are today. And "Steam sales" didn't exist. I credited Steam for destroying gaming and moved to console in significant part to get away from the increasing presence of horrendous Steam It's pretty different now, but it's hard to forget that era. They were Facebook levels of evil when they started.

I'd love to see consoles be able to access different digital stores, but I'm ok with them as long as they continue competing with each other and producing similar results. So far I have not seen any of those "steam sales" people rave about really best the console sales, because of their competition against each other. I keep hearing it, but any time I spot check prices it's the same, slightly lower, or slightly higher, so on average, par.

I do agree that convincing the general public has been the weak part of their strategy. And unfortunately every time they get closer to that strategy they cave to the internet hordes who want them to be like Sony. They tried to go the TV, TV, TV route to prove it was more than a console.....but that was botched badly. Still, the marketing for XSeX hasn't got up and running yet. We'll see how they present it.