Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@GameOtaku Correct, because most emulators that exist to this day are mature and have all the features needed to emulate every game programmed in.

But throughout their development cycle (which typically takes years into decades), every additional feature brings new game compatibility. For example, emulating Super Mario Sunshine doesn't require bounding boxes, but Paper Mario TTYD does. Sunshine does require safe pokes to the screen to determine where the goo is, something TTYD doesn't. So you can write an emulator to emulate either game without it being compatible with both.

For a SNES example, you can emulate Super Mario Bros Deluxe without a particular transparency typeimplemented, but not Super Mario World.

A mature emulator is when the majority of features are properly emulated, and you can play nearly any game on it. But as one is being built, support for games is added gradually, and isn't an all or nothing thing.

For example, Dolphin, a 20 year old emulator cannot emulate Ed Edd n Eddy still to this day due to some unknown bug, despite almost every other game working.

Also, keep in mind that some games rely on undocumented and unintended features of the hardware. For example, a game might accidentally clear a buffer before it writes to it, and then send a signal to push the contents to memory. But because of timing of those signals, it gets pushed to memory before it clears. So if you emulate that game based on the code, it'll fail in emulation due to it actually ordering it as written, rather than how it performed on hardware. These kind of things are why each game needs to be tested thoroughly on each emulator they're on, even if all features are implemented.

But yes, all these changes are to the emulator itself (as well as likely the emulator configuration file bundled with each ROM), and not the ROMs.

Three things.

1 As it has already been explained multiple times, it takes years of hard work from a devoted team to build a proper emulator. Many have even seen decades of work, hundreds of thousands of man hours poured in to make them work properly. Nintendo isn’t going to do that for free. You don’t spend millions of dollars in labor building and perfecting a consumer grade emulator just hand out free games on it to people who bought a version 15 years ago on legacy hardware. That’s ridiculous.

2 Irrespective of the work that goes into it, these companies are running a business, not a charity. Unless you were promised future compatibility at time of purchase (which, nobody was) you are complaining about not receiving something that was never promised when the sale was made. That’s called reneging on a contract. You bought a game and you got what you paid for, but now you’re coming back trying to change the terms of the agreement after the fact. Regardless of what you think “should” be the case, any games purchased were done so with the full knowledge that no promises or guarantees or even hints or insinuations were made for free ports of future versions. If that doesn’t work for you, then you shouldn’t have bought the games. Because it was made it abundantly clear you were only purchasing that version for that consoles. It even says so in the fine print.

3 Cross system compatibility only works when systems share the same ecosystem. Apple devices all run on iOS. Different Nintendo consoles do NOT all run on the same OS, or have the same architecture. But even if they did, it’s up to Nintendo to decide whether they want to offer cross platform versions. It can be a persuasive maneuver to coax consumers into buying a product, but ultimately that’s their choice. And they don’t have to do it, even if it was “drag and drop” due to having the exact same OS on identical hardware architecture. They are not indebted to anyone to do anything. Unless they advertise future versions working on future systems, then you are complaining about some thing they never advertised when they made the sale. Again, trying to renege on a contract, saying they owe something to you they do not, claiming it’s a free drag and drop operation when it’s not, when even if it was... it still wouldn’t be owed.

@JaxonH
1. Then we can purchase the emulator software and load the ROMs we purchased before into it. You could upgrade your VC from Wii to WiiU for a price per game so my suggestion of a onece per gen transfer fee for the content wouldn’t be that far of a stretch.

2. Even older physical games have similar writings in their fine print but NES, SNES, Gameboy and Genesis games among others run on Retrons and other clone consoles. As I mentioned before I’m not obligated to pay those companies again just because I bought a newer system.

Then don't pay them again, @GameOtaku ....? Who said you did have to do that?

@BruceCM
From the way I see it you own the games purchased on VC just as much as you would own a game on cart/disc. If you can buy another system that can run your games you don’t have to pay for your games again correct? PC gamers have been able for years to play older games by making tweaks to their setups so it’s not a foreign concept. The current way to play the classic games is very limited for rural areas and others who don’t have ease of access. With the VC of the past you could play anything you wanted offline indefinitely with no more associated costs.

So, buy another system that can play the games, @GameOtaku....? The discussion was about VC on Switch, though

@GameOtaku

They’re not. They are not going to do it your way, and plenty of people have explained to you why. Whether you refuse to acknowledge that or not, it doesn’t change the fact they’re not going to do it that way.

You don’t have any legitimate claim, be it legal or moral. Time to move on.

This has become quite an exercise in futility.

@JaxonH
We will soon see. They cannot sustain the games service as is without raising the price of the sub. At least with VC and NSO rentals it’s fair for everyone. Nintendo refuses to reimburse me for the time I couldn’t access the games nor would they extend it either. And no you own the ROMs just as you would a cart. So the same should apply.

@BruceCM
Don’t you see. The VC-NSO should be the same as NES-Retron. I have an NES. I have a Retron. I have NES carts. NES carts can be used in a Retron. I didn’t need to purchase my games again going from one to the other. It should apply to VC games that I own to transfer or have unlimited offline access without need of a subscription. If rental subscriptions were all that great to begin with then the rental stores wouldn’t have closed.

There is no “should”. Doesn’t exist.

They have a product they have made and they have the right to sell it on the market or not sell it in the market in any manner they see fit. You have the right to buy it or not buy it. But you do not have the right to buy and then complain you want more than was advertised. Just because you think you “should own the rom” doesn’t mean you do.

If you think you own more than they’ve given you, then you need to take it up with the courts. Go file suit, and tell the judge how you “own the roms” and see the response you get.

But I’m tired of hearing about it.

This reminds me slightly of when players complain for free game time when the WoW servers are down. They're never gonna get it.

When you purchase a game/system/ecosystem/whatever, you're now playing by that company's rules. You don't get to demand anything. Sometimes, when pushed to extremes and viewed as a necessity for mostly PR reasons, a company will "cave" and do something perceived as nice/selfless for the players, but those times are few and far between.

This is the system Nintendo has created. NSO is where old titles will now dwell. And they probably will raise NSO prices as the years go on. You can't stop it. It's their ecosystem.

If you own them on the actual hardware or bought them on the Wii/U 3ds, your toaster, fridge, microwave, washing machine. Why not just play them where you bought it.
Read through 2 pages of this. My brain hurts and I feel I deserved to get paid now.😀

Anyway Happy new year everyone. All the best.

@DarthNocturnal
You also had licensing terms with original cartridges that you could only use them on their intended consoles.
@rallydefault
We only got to this point where we have to pay for online services because people were stupid. If they had laid it down no we are not supporting this. So me and others like me have to pay for a online service even though we don’t have internet or play online to rent games that we lose access to due to a weekly checkin requirement that we have no control over what content we want to have? You call me entitled? Y’all sound far more so to me. There should be ease of access for all. I’d gladly pay an upgrade fee or better yet let us copy our sd cards with vc and transfer it to the system.

And yes if the service is down you absolutely have a right to demand free game time that you paid for. It’s not the consumers fault service drops. Just like how lots of us call the phone company to cut our bills down due to services being cut out for blackouts and what not.

@1UP_MARIO
Super Valis 4 isn’t on any of the services but switch.
Star Tropics isn’t available on 3ds but it is on WiiU.
If everyone would get on board with the idea of a “unified VC” system we would be assured of never losing access to classic games ever again and Nintendo wouldn’t need to recharge and restart every gen.

People wonder why many of us choose to get emulators and download ROMs as opposed to supporting the devs.

@GameOtaku if you still have your copy of Valis4 then play it there.

People don’t “wonder”. We know exactly why people use emulators. And it’s almost always one of three reasons.

1 Selfish greed, where thieves self-justify their wrongdoing so they don’t have to pay
2 Convenience. Someone owns the game on the most current platform it’s sold on, but want the convenience of playing on a platform it’s not sold on. But they’ve bought the most recent iteration and therefore have done as much as they can to properly support the game.
3 Necessity. Some games simply aren’t sold on any platform. English translated Fire Emblems are a good example (though now that the original has been translated, anyone currently emulating the game who’s not a thief will have bought it for $4.99)

So no, nobody’s wondering. Almost everyone emulates, the question is which category one falls into. If it’s the 2nd or 3rd, I think most people are ok with that, because it’s not dishonest and it’s done in good faith. It’s those in the 1st category who dishonestly steal intellectual property in bad faith and justify their theft with rationalizations and excuses of being entitled to steal because some company didn’t do what they wanted... they are the ones that people typically have a problem with.

@JaxonH I fall under 2 and 3 both. I have an enormous collection of ROMs, but always buy the games I like on their current system. Like I love the Mega Man series and have had the ROMs for years, but I still bought the collections on 3DS and then again bought them all on Switch.
There's another reason I emulate and this might fall under your reason #3 - rom hacks for a new experience. There's some really well done hacks out there and I've had quite a bit of fun playing them. Anything from just changing the theme of a game with new sprites or brand new levels and worlds.
And then there's the ones that restore a game to it's original version that didn't make it to retail for various reasons (levels put back into original orders, cut bosses and enemies put back in, etc).
I recently played one of Sonic3+K that put the game back to it's original vision (which even the combined games do not entirely do) and it was very enjoyable, despite owning this game multiple times - the original carts, on DS and Steam.

@Shadowthrone
Right on. Totally. Most of us benefit from emulation in some way. I honestly don’t spend much time emulating anymore, but I used to. I bought the GPD Win 2 just to have a handheld pocketable GameCube/Wii. Haven’t touched the thing in a year or two, but I like having it, just in case. But it’s all games I own on my shelf and have re-purchased yet again on Wii U VC (for the Wii games, anyways- they didn’t sell GC, but I own every single GBA, SNES, N64, and Wii game sold on the Wii U eShop). Also quite enjoyed having a full SNES/GBA library on my hacked 3DS. But... I spent more time putting the games on there than I actually did play them.

Still, it’s nice to have. I like having the NES/SNES catalog on Switch, even though I rarely play them. Spent a little time with the DKC games, and the classics (Mario, Zelda, Metroid) but only a few hrs total.

Of course, PC has everything, and I was playing Paper Mario TTYD for a while, even found a way to bounce saves back and forth with the Win 2. But... it’s just not the same. I’d rather play on Switch. I love PC- in fact, Monster Hunter World on Steam with 3D audio in headphones at 4k 60 Ultra is all I’ve been doing for the last 2 weeks (the Monster Hunter Rise hype is real). But for some reason, older games only seem to appeal to me on Switch now. Otherwise I just never get around to playing them.

You know, I've thought through this many times over the years, and I've never really been able to pinpoint what inherent harm is caused by downloading a game illegally versus borrowing it from a friend or buying it secondhand. In all three scenarios, you're enjoying the fruits of a product without directing money toward the publisher who made it possible for the game to exist as a commercial product. For console games, secondhand sales are responsible for far more lost revenue than piracy, too. I suppose there is the issue of ripped games being able to furnish a potentially infinite number of digital copies of a game, but that's not really relevant to the moral calculus of someone who is downloading a game online, IMO.

I think this belief has informed my approach to game purchasing/playing in a number of ways, though:

• I almost never buy used games. If I'm going to enjoy something, I want the publisher to benefit from it. Saving $10 isn't really worth giving Joe Blow from Michigan the money I'd otherwise be paying for a new copy. Frankly, I think more harm is done by, say, spending $50 to purchase a used copy of a game than by downloading that same game for free and using that same $50 to purchase a new copy of a different game that's actively being distributed.
• I have zero compunctions about downloading older games that released for dead systems unless those games are still actively in production.
• While I don't think it's immoral to, say, download Super Mario Bros. for the NES on your PC instead of buying it on your Wii U, I almost always try to buy re-releases of games I've enjoyed in the past but haven't paid a publisher for, even if I'm not going to play it again, because I feel like, if I've enjoyed a game, then, when possible, the people who made it possible should be compensated, even if it's well after the fact. Plus, I gain the ability to play it on a newer platform, which never hurts.