Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@Heavyarms55 @Northwind
It's been a long time since I've used the eShop to actively search for games. I always use Nintendo's website and purchase from there. I only use the eShop to add funds and to re-download games.

@JaxonH
It's going to take a couple more generations for it to happen but we're indeed getting to the point that mobile devices become virtually as strong as home consoles. Everytime I wander through multimedia stores I get amazed by the computer power of smartphones. They're often stronger than laptops of the same price, especially in the $400-$600 range.

@Rexenoboy The big problem with smartphones being the power of consoles is that they aren't designed in a way that allows for efficient cooling to be implemented which is needed if you have any plans to run the more ambitious titles. It's why the Switch has so much cooling built into it. Just imagine what kind of cooling would be needed for the type of games consoles would be doing in a couple of generations, when you think mobile power will be equal.

The other problem is that for the most part, no developers build games that ever takes advantage of the power mobile devices have, because the majority of people owning one don't care about these types of games, if they ever play games. And when you are producing a free to play which you kinda have to if you ever want to be successful now days, it's more money than it's worth to invest so they keep focusing on cheap Flash games.

@JaxonH I think Microsoft will see xCloud as enough for the portable space with backwards compatibility being more important than the hybrid approach (changing to ARM would mean starting from scratch). Sony, maybe given they haven't really cared about backwards compatibility since the $599 60GB PS3.

@Grumblevolcano I think, sometimes it's not about whether something can be done but about whether it's really appealing. Microsoft could certainly create a wrap around for XBox 360 games (and eventually XBox One games) that runs on a phone (or a Switch). Sony could do the same.

The problem is that both Microsoft and Sony are primarily providing platforms for either:

1 - Highly competitive online "would be e-sports". Basically CoD but also other games that take themselves very seriously.

2 - Highly cinematic interactive experiences.

In both cases the games are designed around you sitting down for a couple of hours infront of the best and biggest TV you can find. You might technically be able to find a way to make them work on a device you can carry on the bus but you probably won't want to play them on the bus.

The most likely entrants into the hybrid market aren't Sony and Microsoft but the types of PC companies that tried to sell "Steam machines". Maybe if Valve had tried to build Steam OS on top of Android instead of Linux they'd have had a lot more success and a "Steam Tablet" resembling a Switch would today be a very real possibility...

To be honest though - I don't see Nintendo having any real competition into their particular niche any time soon.

@JaxonH

Ecosystems, more than anything else. If their friends are playing Madden, Call of Duty, GTA Online, Fortnite (etc) on PS5, XSX, PC or Mobile...that's where they'll be playing too. For as much as Nintendo can flaunt the strength of their first party games, detractors can easily point out how poorly cultivated the Switch's ecosystem is. Less than satisfactory online connectivity, poor NSO membership incentives, the overbearingly protective nature of Nintendo by not providing voice chat or friend messaging at a base system level.

There are plenty of reasons not to purchase a Switch copy of a game when there are better ecosystems available or you don't give a lick about playing a game portably.

@Magician Something I absolutely agree with. I'd split it into two parts though - there's the online ecosystem and infrastructure and the "network effect" of not moving away from the system on which your friends play.

If you look at the XBox One for instance - I'd say that it never had a problem with the technology but it suffered immensely from the network effect locking players into the PS4 ecosystem early on.

Nintendo has problems with both. Their online infrastructure and systems are poor. I've always been a proponent that there is a big advantage to Nintendo being a protective closed garden online but it's not an advantage they've ever brought effectively in their marketing and they do need to make online more painless for adults. Technically they need to provide a platform on which any developers making games with online components get everything they need "for free" (no devs having to create an maintain a game specific friends list or chat client for instance).

The network effect is tied in with this. Few people play 3rd party games online on Switch when they have a choice to play the same game online on another system. Partly because their infrastructure and systems are so poor. Because so few people are in on the Switch online ecosystem they have no network effect to bring people in.

@Northwind Thanks!

Unfortunately clearly talking on a forum has no impact on Nintendo whatsoever.

The ongoing discussion about the eShop is disheartening. There's a pretty clear consensus about what's wrong with the eShop (and this is a rabid fanbase that can argue 50 page threads about minor points of scripture - like whether Green Yoshi or Blue Yoshi is the best Yoshi) and Nintendo themselves must know all of this. But nothing happens.

The eShop is - I think - the biggest problem Nintendo have right now. I think they're at risk of the commercial ecosystem on Switch completely capsizing. I just can't figure out whether it's a technical challenge they simply can't overcome or whether it's a commercial decision to allow all games on the platform on a fairly flat equal basis. Either way they need to resolve it because the consoles' reputation as the best port of call for indie games is slowly bleeding away.

@StuTwo Release date's another thing. Look at DOOM Eternal for example, 6 months after launch the state of the Switch version is "we'll be talking about it in the not-so-distant future".

Between cashing in on those who buy on multiple platforms and Switch's specs being weak in comparison, Switch is very much an afterthought to 3rd parties.

@Grumblevolcano sadly most Third Party companies don't seen to prioritize Switch release of it games,despite with the chances of Switch becoming of one the highest selling console, it give me a impression, most Third Party companies consider Switch a inferior console compared to PS4/PS4, Xbox One/,Xbox Series X e PC, why broter releasing a game on Switch?when you can release our games in PS4/PS5, Xbox One/Xbox Series X e PC more vastly superior consoles, then this joke of a console that is Switch, power isnt everything that a console need to be sucefull, this person who think power is everything for a console, is so close minded.

@Grumblevolcano What's more frustrating about DOOM Eternal is how it started as day and date with every other platform.

Then they were all delayed, but Switch was quietly delayed further, at the time, no more than a couple months. So we could assume June or July.

Then come March, we here nothing. The game releases. We get to May, still no word. Come July, it's coming along fine, we will share stuff soon.

Then September comes, it's still coming along fine, release date info soon.

It's been the same "Next couple of months" three times now.

At least it's not like Steep which was canned so quietly even Nintendo didnt know, and a PR guy on Twitter mentioned it.

But even weirder, from the start they said idTech 7 was built with Switch in mind. How exactly it's taking longer to get a game on the Switch in a fully compatible engine to the point it's probably coming after even next-generation versions are launching and all the DLC, than it takes to get a game on idTech 6 working less than a year after release on other platforms, when the game wasn't even considered for Switch when development started (Wolfenstein 2), is beyond me.

Some of these problems Nintendo has like a decent eShop and voice chat, were all in the 3DS and Wii U, so my only conclusion as to why Nintendo decided against having them in the Switch is nothing more than Nintendo simply refusing to spend a penny more than they could get away with. The problem now is that the cracks in the eShop are really starting to show more and more with each day and the lack of voice chat, messaging and friend requests is more evident on their desperation to not spend money

I've got a feeling Doom Eternal will be launching with a new revision Switch model around March.

Also, eShop shovelware... I dont understand who buys this crap. I dont care how cheap a game is. If it's not upper echelon, I'm not interested. If I just wanted cheap games I'd play on my phone. Yet I constantly see 10 cent games in the best sellers list. Like, if a game is 10 cents I guarantee it's not worth my time or the hard drive space it occupies.

@Magician
Sure. I wasnt implying there would be literally no reason to play elsewhere- obviously platform loyalty and ecosystem plays a part. Still, the benefit of buying a game on system A that's TV only, vs buying a game on system B that's TV and handheld, if the game looks virtually identical, would be called into question. You'd have to seriously care a ton about built in voice chat to give up built in portability to obtain it. That's a very high price to pay when Discord exists.

@Giancarlothomaz Well they'd be right in that assumption. The Switch IS inferior. It obviously can't handle larger budget releases or even some mid tier games without sizable sacrifices being made just to get the game to work on such a meager SoC. As much of a miracle as ports like DOOM, Witcher 3 and Wolfenstein II are, they also suffer from a blurrier presentation, the lack of certain graphical flourishes present in other versions like the water effects in Wolfenstein II's port or the lack of detail on the Slayer's weapons in DOOM's port, and unanimously they all have considerably worse performance even after halving the framerate down to 30fps in most cases.

It obviously takes a large amount of time to even get these ports up and running. Some even flat out gave up like Square Enix when trying to get FFXV running on Switch through converting the game to work with Unreal Engine 4 instead of the Luminous Engine, or Capcom with Resident Evil 7, which prompted them to release a cloud-streamed version instead.

I am starting to wonder if DOOM Eternal's Switch port was delayed to launch alongside a new, upgraded model of the Switch that can run it better. It's a more demanding game than DOOM 2016, and even that barely runs acceptably on the platform. I don't care how scalable the engine is, there had to be a catch somewhere.

Well, I'll be playing on PC, regardless.

@Ralizah I doubt they'd delay games just to launch them in conjunction with revised or new models of a console

The Switch Pro possibly being a mid-cycle upgrade similar to the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X means they'd have to design future Switch games to work on both to some extent but still having clear advantages running on the better model

And whenever they developed games specifically for new models they didn't really consider launching them on older systems, as is the case with Xenoblade Chronicles and Fire Emblem Warriors on New 3DS

@Haruki_NLI Only ways it could make sense while being true to some extent is either the Microsoft talks changed their mind and it's built with XB1X/PC in mind or if id Software got a devkit for the rumoured Switch revision sometime before they said that it was built with Switch in mind.

@TheFrenchiestFry I think it'll be a Hyrule Warriors Legends situation.

@Ralizah
That's what I think. Just by happenstance of the game being almost ready roughly around the same time as a revision, they time it alongside the revision similar to Monster Hunter Rise. Just like New 3DS soft launched with a few games, a new Switch revision will also likely soft launch with a few games taking advantage of it. Obviously they'll still run on the current system too.

DOOM was great on Switch, at least for handheld mode. If this one can get a little boost from a new revision, maybe close the gap to 720p handheld and make docked play a little better looking, that'll be hype. I already have the game on Steam, but of course I want a hybrid version, too.

@Northwind
You can still do a system transfer. That includes every game, your entire profile, all of it. So anyone buying a revision can just system transfer.

A save transfer tool specific to AC is also releasing sometime this year still, supposedly.

@Northwind
I understand what it is. When I say system transfer I'm referring to your profile. It transfers your profile and all licenses and ownership of games, and save data. I've used it before.

I was not aware AC was excluded, but if that is the case then there are still 2 options. #1 they do a cloud restore now via their website or calling them. #2 the ability to transfer to another system is releasing this year.

Either way, people upgrading to a new revision will have at least 2 options at their disposal.

@JaxonH The current situation with save data transfer:

• If your Switch breaks or is stolen you lose your Pokemon, Splatoon 2 saves along with a few other games but you can get your Animal Crossing island and save data for most games back if you have a NSO subscription. You do need to contact Nintendo for the Animal Crossing island though.
• If you buy a new Switch and transfer your save data from your current Switch to the new Switch, everything will be transferred except your Animal Crossing island. That transfer ability for Animal Crossing is planned for later in 2020 (my guess is with the late November update).