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Topic: What About a DS/3DS Slot On A New Switch?

Posts 41 to 60 of 71

electrolite77

@RC_Russ98

There's a lot they need to do with the Switch. I don't find the prospect of Nintendo having one system depressing at all though, in fact I really like the idea of being able to get all Nintendo's franchises in the one place.

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RC_Russ98

@electrolite77 I just don't like how the switch isn't very portable (way to big to be carried in a pocket) and how there's no like local connection things like street pass. Street pass was charming and I really enjoyed it. Just like how I enjoyed pictochat but that's never coming back

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Blathers

RC_Russ98 wrote:

I just don't like how the switch isn't very portable (way to big to be carried in a pocket)

I mean, you can get a case, or carry it in a bag.

Or y'know... wear cargos/three quarters
Untitled

Edited on by Blathers

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EvilLucario

No one can sufficiently consistently support two systems at the same time. Even during the Wii/DS days where both exploded with popularity, the Wii still paled in comparison to the amount of great first-party DS games out there like Elite Beat Agents.

Sony failed with the PSP and Vita, Nintendo failed with the GameCube and Wii U. How do you expect anyone succeeding if those two can't even be able to?

Unifying both platforms is a gamble for Nintendo that ultimately works out so they can concentrate everything to one platform, boosting software production and development.

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skywake

RC_Russ98 wrote:

@electrolite77 3DS games don't look bad I don't get where people are getting that from. Certain games yes, but a lot of them still look great.

They look decent on the 3DS but if you scale them up they don't look that great. And with the Switch you'd at the very least be scaling them up to be 4x the size on the Switch if not larger on a TV. Which in itself isn't ideal given the Switch has about 9x the number of pixels.

Like I kinda said earlier you can get away with NES, SNES and even N64 because they're old enough to be "retro". You can get away with Wii and Gamecube because there's less of a resolution jump from 480p. But 3DS is in this awkward spot where it's too new to be retro and to low res to look decent on a large display. So it doesn't quite work. I'd much rather sequels and remasters....

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

RC_Russ98

@Blathers how the hell? Im happy now thats the one of my biggest issues with the system

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ThanosReXXX

skywake wrote:

They look decent on the 3DS but if you scale them up they don't look that great. And with the Switch you'd at the very least be scaling them up to be 4x the size on the Switch if not larger on a TV. Which in itself isn't ideal given the Switch has about 9x the number of pixels.

Like I kinda said earlier you can get away with NES, SNES and even N64 because they're old enough to be "retro". You can get away with Wii and Gamecube because there's less of a resolution jump from 480p. But 3DS is in this awkward spot where it's too new to be retro and to low res to look decent on a large display. So it doesn't quite work. I'd much rather sequels and remasters....

You must not be familiar with the Citra emulator. Since the article that Nintendo Life did on it almost two years ago, development of the emulation has gone from strength to strength, and games look perfectly fine, even on big screens.

Article:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/nintendo_3ds_games_s...

Links:

https://www.polygon.com/2016/4/27/11521836/nintendo-3ds-emula...
https://citra-emu.org/

Video of old version running Mario Kart 7:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm_lDHrCcc8

Video of last year's version running Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Nni6NZoy0

The latest video on the emulator's progress:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEpgCGLA_ns

(Instead of posting them directly, I made all the videos into normal links, because I didn't want to spam the thread with them, and there's additional info underneath the videos that you or anyone else interested might want to read)

Now just imagine what Nintendo themselves could do, if even hackers can already come up with something as brilliant as this...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

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RC_Russ98

@ThanosReXXX I could never get that thing to work but the games I saw looked amazing.

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skywake

@ThanosReXXX
We're talking about physical hardware backwards compatibility not emulation

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

ThanosReXXX

@RC_Russ98 They do indeed. The newer version seems to be more user-friendly, so perhaps you might want to give it another go. If you check that last video, it gives plenty of info on the changes, and I also put a link to the official site in my comment.

@skywake Well, no offense, but that's a rather sour response.

I simply wanted to show what is possible, and how good it actually looks, contrary to what you said or might have been thinking.

As far as physical hardware backwards compatibility is concerned: a system on a chip in a more capable system such as the Switch could achieve the exact same results with additional software. And besides, VC is also emulation, so it isn't really a foreign topic for Nintendo and who the hell cares in the end whether or not emulation is achieved via hardware or software? As long as it works, and equals or improves upon the actual hardware, I don't think we're going to hear many complaints...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

RC_Russ98

@skywake physical or emulation doesnt matter to me. Any ideas or news of 3DS games or even a bloody virtual console Im fine with.

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Switch Friend Code: 1709-2943-2786

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Heavyarms55

I think the hardware support is VERY unlikely, but as a Virtual console type service, entirely possible.Most likely a future Switch would be smaller, making a second game slot difficult at best. Even if it were not smaller, likely it would be because a more powerful chip is being used and thus cannot spare the room. DS/3DS games are small, but not that small relative to the space it would take to support a separate cartridge slot on the system. Digitally, I could see them porting many games in the future however.

Though personally I want GBA and Gamecube support first.

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Monkey_Balls

This topic takes me back to when the Switch/NX was first announced and folk were speculating about what it could be. Huge wishful thinking on my part, but I was hoping it would be compatible with 3DS cartridges and able to connect to a Wii U (akin to the Gamepad): a handheld featuring backwards compatibility with both systems while also having its own library. Hey, I did say it wishful thinking.

Having said that, maybe Nintendo's next system (or systems) will be the child of Wii U and Switch: a home console and handheld combined/connected (with a proper base unit in the home). Hiding the second screen in the dock while playing on the TV seems to be a missed opportunity, particularly with Wii U ports coming to Switch. Okay, (apparently) Nintendo don't want the Switch to be seen as another Wii U (despite the ports) but it's strange that a dual-screen function wasn't implemented. Nintendo's next system will be interesting.

Eh, I digress. I'd like to see a DS/3DS slot on Switch but doubt it will happen. Virtual Console, though? Fingers crossed...

Monkey_Balls

Nintendo Network ID: widdowk

skywake

ThanosReXXX wrote:

As far as physical hardware backwards compatibility is concerned: a system on a chip in a more capable system such as the Switch could achieve the exact same results with additional software. And besides, VC is also emulation, so it isn't really a foreign topic for Nintendo and who the hell cares in the end whether or not emulation is achieved via hardware or software?

Unless you're increasing the resolution of sprites and textures you're still going to have issues. And if you're doing that why not go all out and make a proper HD remaster. Whatever way you slice it the 3DS and DS are the least appealing consoles to be taking games from. Especially if they're running the original unmodified code. To put the resolution into perspective here's an image showing the resolutions of previous Nintendo consoles:

Untitled

Too low res to be impressive, too new to be retro.

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

ThanosReXXX

@skywake I don't know if you're either missing or intentionally dodging the point to fortify your own, and my apologies if that's not the case, but it certainly comes across as such.

Having said that, the solution was already in my post, or rather: in the emulator, which could work very well in combination with hardware. One solution doesn't have to exclude the other, so I don't really see the need to have some kind of fixation on a hardware solution alone.

Citra shows that 2DS/3DS games can look perfectly fine on a big screen, so that point of yours is highly debatable in that respect. All it takes is the emulator and some kind of SoC in the Switch, to enable these resolutions. And then you'll have the best of both worlds: native hardware support, coupled with options to upscale the graphics to more modern standards, accommodating larger screens and resolutions.

And Citra does this by default, so there is no "Unless you're increasing the resolution of sprites and textures you're still going to have issues".

And why not go all the way? Simple: cost effectiveness. This solution would be far cheaper than making remasters of standalone games. Just have the chip and the emulator, fine tune it to work with the Switch, and almost every 3DS game out there will work with it. And of course, the emulator is still being tweaked, so compatibility will only grow.

And nobody can tell me that this doesn't look good enough to play on the Switch in docked mode, but especially in handheld mode:

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

skywake

@ThanosReXXX
You don't know if I'm either missing or intentionally dodging the point? Same to you I guess. Watching the above videos it's pretty obvious how low resolution those assets are. If anything rendering 3DS games at that high a resolution only highlights that fact. It makes sense given that 240p is to 1080p what 480p is to 4K.

I don't see what the point is going to the effort of emulating 3DS games on hardware that's a fraction of the power of what the above video was running on. They'd be much better off making HD remasters of a select few games which make sense to re-release. Then we'd get the higher resolution rendering, higher resolution assets and a reworked control scheme rather than just a higher resolution rendering. I'd want all three if I was going to play a 3DS/DS game on the Switch

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

ThanosReXXX

@skywake If you had taken the whole "and my apologies if that's not the case, but it certainly comes across as such" as a clear disclaimer of "if not so, then please be so kind as to disregard this bit" as you should have (seeing as that was how it was intended), then the negative rebuke could have been left behind...

And besides, I'm not missing the point at all. The whole point of this entire topic was native 3DS support on the Switch, NOT standalone remakes. What I showed, is that native 3DS on Switch is not only possible, but will look better. The Switch is more capable than most people think, although it's obviously nowhere near the power of the rig used in the video. BUT: the links I provided and all that was said in the video, make it clear that Citra can now also run on more moderate systems, so a beast of a PC isn't necessary anymore, as was the case with the initial versions. And that is the beauty of the latest version, and that is only the beta, so more improvements are definitely underway.

Besides, what I was talking about, is a 3DS SoC in combination with an emulator, so the emulator would more or less only have to do the additional things, most importantly the upscaling.

And AGAIN, and most importantly, that solution would be more streamlined and MUCH cheaper for Nintendo to offer, instead of having to put the resources and man hours into remaking a choice selection of games.

So, SoC + emulator giving overall backward compatibility for ALL games, or investing in HD remakes of select games? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again: I'm in sales & marketing, so I'd always look at it from a more revenue/less investment point of view, which makes the most sense, from Nintendo's perspective. (or any company's perspective, for that matter)

And yes, OF COURSE the most ideal situation would be shiny new remakes, which would take full benefit of the new hardware they're running on, but (provided Nintendo is even considering 3DS backward compatibility in the first place, which it probably isn't) I just don't think that it is the more sensible or cost-effective option.

So, if it's a case of what you, we, or anyone else wants, vs what is possible and what Nintendo would do, then remakes of 3DS games is probably the least likely option. Then again, this is Nintendo we're talking about, and they DO have a knack for doing the unexpected, so perhaps you might get your wish after all...

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

skywake

@ThanosReXXX
I understand what you're saying I just think you're wrong. Marketing is one thing, making it work is a different thing entirely. I don't think full scale 3ds vc makes a lot of sense given even the best case scenario results. They'd be better off doing a selection of remasters as they are already doing with the DS and TWEWY.

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

ThanosReXXX

@skywake Well, in all fairness, obviously all points made in this thread are purely theoretical, most either wishful thinking, or purely speculative. I do think that TWEWY and any other remaster happening, is just that the developers are thinking that they weren't able to get everything out of (or in to) the game that they had originally planned, so the original platform it was on, more or less held them back in a way, and now that the Switch is here, they can do their "Director's Cut", aka the version that they actually always wanted to make in the first place, but never could (back then).

So, I think that titles like these are just an exception, not some kind of rule of making remasters of DS games, with a lot more to follow. Maybe a handful at most.

It is also true that cost-effectiveness WILL come to play in some way, shape or form. So that will certainly be factored into what they're going to do. For what it's worth: I don't think they're going to do a re-design of the Switch that soon, much less add stuff to it. If anything, it'll be a leaner version, the Switch Lite or whatever they're gonna call it. But my original point was always no more than a speculation/theory. Just a bit of musing, thinking off the top of my head.

BUT: I do still stand by my point that a remaster/reboot of select titles, will arguably also not happen, or at least not in the numbers of games that people who are interested in these titles in the first place, would like to see. At most, it'll be a handful of the most successful titles, for the simple reason that they need to be sure that they'll sell, so they can get their investment back, and make a bit of a profit as well.

I think that the guy who started this thread also wasn't thinking about that. He just wants to be able to play ALL his 3DS games on the Switch, so a couple of remasters, maybe even from titles that don't interest him at all, will more than likely not be what he's looking for.

And that brings me back to why I mentioned Citra. Simply because that is what could come the closest to what he was looking for, also taking into account that Nintendo might not be all too keen on adding hardware to the Switch, so an emulator/3DS VC will be the next best thing, and why not add additional options such as upscaling to it? It will definitely look good enough in handheld mode.

I do agree with you that some of the graphics in that video, such as in the Pokémon game, don't look that good, simply because the original assets are too low res, but all Mario games, Dead or Alive, Resident Evil and the two racing games looked perfectly fine to me.

'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: ThanosReXX

NaviAndMii

Blathers wrote:

RC_Russ98 wrote:

I just don't like how the switch isn't very portable (way to big to be carried in a pocket)

I mean, you can get a case, or carry it in a bag.

Or y'know... wear cargos/three quarters
Untitled

Allow me to introduce you to the 'Comfortable Hands Free Stand' - problem solved! (..and ultra-fashionable too, I might add!)

Untitled

...you're welcome!

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