Good questions... "What does crafting do"? Maybe not much in regards to puzzles and exploration. It does, however, increase a game's battle system variability.
Let's put crafting aside. As far as RPG elements go, however, I still make the argument of conversation differentiation--choosing a path via conversations. Introducing affinity to the gameplay. This would create intrapersonal puzzles rather than physical ones.
@Haiassai: So you could play as a good link everybody likes or a bad link everybody hates? It's hard to wrap my head around the idea of everybody hating Link's guts; I'd probably just make everybody like me.
I would hope that there isn't too much dialogue, and it isn't slow and dull. Sometimes wading through potential answers to questions can get a little boring in games like that, if you're not in the right mood.
@Nicolai: I think a hero should be disliked by some. I mean, if you go slashing my Cuccos, I'd be upset. I don't think it has to be like Fable where there's good or evil, but I think there can be multiple paths.
As for your second point, there doesn't have to be a lot of dialogue to have affinity. Granted, I think the quality of dialogue would be the determining factor.
It would be refreshing if not everyone is automatically Link's best friend because he's such a good kid who silently helps people out. I'd love if we could upset people
It would be refreshing if not everyone is automatically Link's best friend because he's such a good kid who silently helps people out. I'd love if we could upset people
There are three instances I can think of in the Zelda games I've played where you can genuinely upset people with your actions. There are likely more, but I've only played 11 out of 18 games (if we're counting TFH, otherwise 11/17)
(The following spoilers are found in Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, and Link's Awakening, in release order) 1. In Link's Awakening, you can steal from the shop in Mabe Village. If you enter the shop again after you steal something, the angry shopkeep is NOT Link's biggest fan and then proceeds to kill him with a beam of light. Afterwards, your name in the game is permanently changed to THIEF. In both versions of the game, stealing is completely optional, but to 100% the photo album in the DX version, you pretty well have to steal something.
2. In Twilight Princess, there's a shop in Faron Woods that's run by a talking bird. You take anything you want, but you have to pay the required rupees before leaving. If you fail to do so, the bird gives a verbal warning and calls you a cheapskate. I also think if you do this too many times, you get attacked by it. It's been a while since TP, so I may have my facts a little messed up here.
3. In Skyward Sword, there's a heart piece sitting on top of the chandelier in the Lumpy Pumpkin. To get it, you have to roll into the beam holding it up in order to knock down the chandelier (breaking it in the process) and get the heart piece. This is despite both verbal AND written warnings inside the bar. Needless to say, the owner, Pumm, isn't very happy with you, and starts you off on a sidequest chain.
in Wind Waker there's the rich guy in Windfall island and the pot girl in Outset Island.
Let's just say they don't agree with Link's attitude towards pots.
Also, in OoT you can annoy Zelda if you give her the wrong answers during her monologue in the castle courtyard.
Yeah, there's a lot of places where you can be obstinate in the dialogue options or break things and get charged 10 ruppees (like the hanging pot at the boat house in Twilight Princess).
@Nicolai: I never selected that dialogue option in both of my playthroughs, so now I'm curious, lol.
@Morpheel: I think I recall reading something about the rich guy. I have yet to play Wind Waker, but it is in my backlog. Also, apparently I need to play devil's advocate with dialogue some more.
I don't recall the boat house thing in Twilight Princess, but I did remember something else; in the original Legend of Zelda, sometimes burning down bushes, entering caves, etc. would cause you to have to pay the Old Man back since you had to "pay for repairs" for breaking and entering.
Edit: Also, there's the whole "I know you have bugs..." thing with Agatha in Twilight Peincess, though I don't know if that truly counts.
@Kinan: fair, but I find the genre a bit strict. I argue that Zelda is an action-adventure game, but puzzle is a big part of it too. Adding dialogue options could truly enhance and change the approach of puzzles. I've already mentioned this, but imagine selecting a response where an entire town is now upset at you, making the exploration even harder (as you'd need to bypass the towns guards now instead of just waking through). Imagine you brought peace among the Gorons and the Zora, and now they allow you to use an item since you've gained their trust.
Also think about the lore. This is one element I think the game could expand upon. Everyone knows it exists and it could be furthered through dialogue.
I feel that while I love exploring and fighting just like Anyone else, adding this option wouldn't ruin the feel of the game — it would only enhance it
@Haiassai: There's definitely a way of people not liking something like that. Many Zelda people I know who play Zelda (they're usually more casual players, but not always) like to skip ahead and not read the dialogue very carefully. Or maybe, just like how people didn't like the pressure of being timed in Majora's Mask, people won't like the pressure of saying the wrong thing in conversation. I personally would enjoy it the one time, but it's a bit of a stretch to say it would "only enhance" the gameplay, when I could see it being a bother for a lot of people.
@Nicolai:be that as it may, if it's a good mechanic, an artist should not compromise to a group of people that may not like it. After all, I think we all agree that the time mechanic was wonderful and really made the mood of Majoras Mask.
True, you can't please everyone. Some people would just have to be unhappy with a mechanic like that. Similar to everyone that doesn't like SS's motion controls. I'd prefer they try new things and some people don't like it than just do the same thing forever.
@Haiassai: I agree and disagree. On the one hand, there are a lot of wonderful things that not everybody likes that make great video games. At the same time, there's a lot of value in doing something that pleases everyone. Game designers shouldn't just ignore that.
I think they should try it anyway, though, but just for one game.
Meh, I don't think making Link talk would have much of an effect in a Zelda game. I always thought the player could make Link have a certain personality e.g. Want Link to be a mischevious brat? Go into every house and break the pots (the rich guy in Windfall Island, anyone?) or strike the poor animals with your sword. Want Link to be a little foolish? Do stupid things in the dungeons to see whether you can progress or something.
What I would like to see is a Zelda game that asks you questions as you progress or do something, whether it's random, all-the-time instances ala Xenoblade Chronicles XX, or serious, rare questions ala Fire Emblem: Awakening. I'd rather they go with the former; it's an effective way to place some humor into the game.
@Kinan: I do like the idea of an action-based affinity system better than a dialogue-based system. I know not everyone wants to think too much about the dialogue when they play these games, and completing actions for affinity can be a nice incentive in addition to a prize. That also opens the possibility of side-quests you can complete that lower your affinity, and that can open up the possibility of some pretty interesting side-quests. Completionist might not like that idea, though, if they care about their affinity AND want to complete every side-quest in every way, but I suppose you'd run into that problem in any game with this feature.
Talk about adding on to the development period, though. I'm sure creating enough content for two or more kinds of possibilities and have it really affect the game world around you has really got to take some time and resources.
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