@-Green-@Tsurii
? You see no difference in traversing/solving "dungeons" in BotW using three powers and a bomb as opposed to having to use an inventory of a dozen+ items?
? You see no difference in traversing/solving "dungeons" in BotW by fighting bosses that look pretty much the same but simply use different powers, (the majority of which, including Gannon, do not necessitate any use of your cryo/mag/stasis whatsoever), as opposed to fighting completely unique bosses that typically necessitate the use of a certain inventory item (or more) to defeat them?
You guys find no differences there? No care for dungeon mini-bosses? Little "cinematic" moments in dungeons that have been there ever since GameBoy Zeldas. Dungeons with escorts. Puzzles involving numerous floors (sometimes up to 8 or 9) as opposed to BotW's large, one-room shrines and Divine Beasts.
Fire can be flinched with bombs, thunder requires the use of magnesis, water is much simpler with cryogenis, wind in not sure, but I assume the other rune might work with it?
Just like most other things in the game though, there's multiple ways to go around the bosses so you might not even notice the option (except that one where you do have to use magnesis).
@ralleydefault
I never said there were no differences. The puzzles I see in Breath of the Wild are pretty similar to the stuff you'd find in other Zelda. The runes serve similar purposes to what other Zelda items do. There are some exceptions like SS's unique Time Shift Stones, but for the most part, I'd say the puzzles and how they work are simlar.
@Tsurii
I appreciate the usual internet "let's talk down to the person who disagrees with me," and I assure you; very refreshing, thank you.
I did read your post. But I understand, again, it's the internet, so you must follow the obligatory accusations.
Anyway, after stating "there honestly isn't" differences to "standard" Zelda stuff (from @-Green-), your post goes on to say, quote: "The biggest differences are that they split dungeons up into shrines (which are all essentially rooms like you'd find them in dungeons, and I'm including the Beasts there), the way they structured the story and that they made items runes and regular weapons (bow, bumerang, Korok leaf etc etc)"
I find those differences to be the very core of what makes a Zelda game, therefore BotW DOES, in my opinion, deviate very far from what makes a good Zelda game, and I'm just a person who dreads the direction it's going (as per the developer's comments that this IS the way they want to take the franchise).
If you want to be pedantic about my "no difference" phrasing, that's fine. My post was meant to illustrate that all of these things I pointed out, many of which you did, as well, ARE what make Zelda games. They are not simply ancillary things that can be taken away and expect the soul of Zelda to remain, or just remolded into three powers and a bomb and passed off as basically the same, as you and @-Green- are saying.
@Meowpheel
That's why I used the word "necessitate."
@ralleydefault
I disagree. I'm at family outing right now so don't expect much more of a response from me at the moment. Which is why my previous response was short.
@-Green-
That's fine - why are you posting at all? lol go have fun!
My bottom line is that everything the three of us have mentioned (no disagreement there) that they have changed kills what it means to be Zelda. For ME. That's what I'm saying. Your arguments are that yes, those things changed, but the same goal is reached. I say that the goal is not reached because those things are needed for that goal to even exist.
The ending to BotW was, honestly, perhaps the most bummer of an ending I've had in a video game since... gosh, I don't even know when. And that's because the "goal" was never even there in the first place. There was no story really driving me along. There weren't these crazy themed dungeons escalating in puzzles and danger. I wasn't building up an arsenal of cool puzzle-solving items along the way.
None of that feeling was there. The "items" I would get for the game were all given to me within the first half-hour. Sure, some breakable weapons that could do alternate things like the Korok Leaf and wands could be picked up for a bit, but did I ever need to use one in a dungeon? No. Did I ever really encounter any enemies in a beast or shrine aside from randomguardian or randomslimespawnthing? No.
I just... I don't know. They killed it. Just my opinion. I know we want our games to evolve and try different things, and they did that, but they killed the spirit of it. They made it into an Ubisoft open-world game with a (thin) coat of "but it's Zelda!" paint.
@rallydefault Fortunately for you, Knack 2 isn't open world
Neither is God of War as far as I'm aware.
I get what you're saying though. But if games are too linear, some will complain they're "on rails", or don't require enough player input, not enough options, decision making, etc.
@Octane
Yea, Knack 2 is actually LOOKING to be fairly decent. The devs are very focused on refining and focusing the platforming. No talk of an open world yet lol
@rallydefault Yeah, the studio acknowledged the criticism and it seems like they're working hard on making the sequel a better game. Granted, I haven't played the first one. Some liked it, others didn't, but I'm sure it was nothing special. I'm surprised they're even making another one, they're passionate about Knack it seems.
I wish linearity didn't completely nosedive in popularity over the past few years. I have no idea why now everything suddenly needs to be able to be changed by the player. So long completely packed, condensed, more linear worlds with a set progression. Hello more quiet, empty, time-consuming, at times an absolute slog, but at least pretty open worlds.
Now everything needs to have a map that has a "see those mountains 80 miles away in the distance? You can GO there" caption despite actually going there being a chore and nothing that interesting being there.
Sigh, I just also feel rallydefault's deep disappointment that this is what we can look forward to with Zelda from now on. Maybe if we're lucky they'll continue having the handheld team carve out smaller more traditional experiences
My bottom line is that everything the three of us have mentioned (no disagreement there) that they have changed kills what it means to be Zelda. For ME. That's what I'm saying. Your arguments are that yes, those things changed, but the same goal is reached. I say that the goal is not reached because those things are needed for that goal to even exist.
I've heard this point be made with other games as well. Such as with Resident Evil VII. All I can say is that I understand your perspective on it, but I tend to view BotW from a somewhat different perspective. From the view that they were trying to be more like the original Zelda and less like the newer Zeldas. If you dislike it, that's fine. If you want to call a spade a spade, I won't deny it.
The ending to BotW was, honestly, perhaps the most bummer of an ending I've had in a video game since... gosh, I don't even know when. And that's because the "goal" was never even there in the first place. There was no story really driving me along.
That's true. I also share the opinion that BotW's story was poor overall. maybe I'm just not as annoyed by it because I don't particularly care for Zelda stories anymore. Not because they're all awful or mismanaged but because they're all so repetitious. MM is one of the few that I genuinely enjoy.
There weren't these crazy themed dungeons escalating in puzzles and danger. I wasn't building up an arsenal of cool puzzle-solving items along the way.
Personally I don't have much of an attachment to the signature puzzle items in Zelda. The only thing I really missed from them was how rewarding at times it felt to receive them. Although it did feel repetitious at time.
As for the theme dungeons. Yes, please! I stated was one of my greatest disappointments with BotW. I was hoping for large, expansive and themed dungeons that would take hours to complete when we first heard the 4 dungeon rumor. I like some aspects of the BotW dungeons but there really wasn't enough meat to it.
None of that feeling was there. The "items" I would get for the game were all given to me within the first half-hour. Sure, some breakable weapons that could do alternate things like the Korok Leaf and wands could be picked up for a bit, but did I ever need to use one in a dungeon? No. Did I ever really encounter any enemies in a beast or shrine aside from randomguardian or randomslimespawnthing? No.
That's a fair point and I can see it. I also agree that the enemy variety in this game is awful. Honestly, I think that a lot of the things you've stated here are things that I've said before in my own lists.
I just... I don't know. They killed it. Just my opinion. I know we want our games to evolve and try different things, and they did that, but they killed the spirit of it. They made it into an Ubisoft open-world game with a (thin) coat of "but it's Zelda!" paint.
I can see that, and after replaying the game I definitely understand why you have that view. I don't particularly disagree with that. I do feel that BotW can be a good foundation for future Zelda games to easily build off of. I believe when it first came out I even stated that it was basically Nintendo playing catch-up.
Unless I'm mistaken or something, the story and puzzles in BotW are standard Zelda stuff. The main difference I see is how the story and puzzles are spread across in small bits which makes them seem worse. Otherwise, I don't see much of a difference.
You're mistaken. The story is so short I'm shocked you didn't feel how abrupt it was. Characters like Ralis, Lulu, and the yetis are around for a while in those games, and are used for more than one quest even after their role in the main one is done.
It's not the same amount of puzzles spread out, it's a bunch of worse ones thrown randomly around the map. It was painfully obvious to me playing through the game that they had no new ideas for the items after you get off the Great Plateau. Magnesis and cryonis are just bad items, and cryonis was the only item of any of them to receive any development in the shrine that teaches you it works on vertical water surfaces like waterfalls. Even after then though, the way you use cryonis in puzzles is just the same the entire game — point at water, create block to jump on / take up space. Magnesis is an awful concept. It's like giving up: what if instead of having unique interactions like the power ring, grappling hook, and iron boots, we just had telekinesis with a few, boring objects? And it's another item like Skyward Sword that's painfully slow and weak to use in combat.
I can barely even remember 5 good shrines that made me think for a change — most of them were so obvious I was on autopilot, fighting with the physics system to achieve the obvious answer rather than doing any actual thinking. The reason it's hard to remember shrines is that they were reused asset BS. This deprived them of all of the environmental character of previous 3D dungeons. That killed not only the unique ideas that stem from that, but all of the larger puzzles than span between tasks. Here there were no monkey swings to amass, no ghosts to hunt down in paintings, no giant statues to elevate or depress, no slow descents into the dark water, no cooled magma to run across, and no statue faces to evaporate with reflected light.
You're mistaken. The story is so short I'm shocked you didn't feel how abrupt it was. Characters like Ralis, Lulu, and the yetis are around for a while in those games, and are used for more than one quest even after their role in the main one is done.
I noticed, but perhaps I'm just not giving Zelda stories enough credit. I agree that BotW's story sucks anyways, but I was speaking mostly in terms of the general plot. As in big destined Link comes out and goes to save Princess Zelda from big bad Ganon. Obviously most other Zelda games have told this story better though. So I'm possibly just being dismissive.
Magnesis and cryonis are just bad items, and cryonis was the only item of any of them to receive any development in the shrine that teaches you it works on vertical water surfaces like waterfalls. Even after then though, the way you use cryonis in puzzles is just the same the entire game — point at water, create block to jump on / take up space. Magnesis is an awful concept. It's like giving up: what if instead of having unique interactions like the power ring, grappling hook, and iron boots, we just had telekinesis with a few, boring objects? And it's another item like Skyward Sword that's painfully slow and weak to use in combat.
I agree with Cryonis being an awful item. Not so much with Magnesis. While it is definitely a slower item to use, it has its fair share of useful uses, and is honestly a lot of fun to use. Unlike say, Cryonis which is awful in basically everything that does not specifically demand it's usage.
The reason it's hard to remember shrines is that they were reused asset BS. This deprived them of all of the environmental character of previous 3D dungeons.
The copy and pasting with was very obvious and dull. I've spoken constantly at to how I dislike the Shrines. Not sure what else to say other than I agree.
That killed not only the unique ideas that stem from that, but all of the larger puzzles than span between tasks. Here there were no monkey swings to amass, no ghosts to hunt down in paintings, no giant statues to elevate or depress, no slow descents into the dark water, no cooled magma to run across, and no statue faces to evaporate with reflected light.
This is a fair point. I forgot to point out the lack of overarching theme within the puzzles and the general lack of effect they had on each other. Which isn't too surprising considering BotW's world is fairly static anyways.
Although one could probably make the counterargument that the Divine Beast did have the gimmick of changing the inner layout of the Dungeon by changing their positioning.
@-Green- I think the divine beasts were pretty high quality despite their samey aesthetic and bosses. However, they and the story segments around them were simply too short to compare to a forest temple or water temple. They lasted like 2-4 hours all together amidst a 100-300 hour game.
@Haru17 Definitely. I was really disappointed by how short they were as well. When the rumor of only four dungeons came out I was honestly they would be much larger.
To me, while the story as a whole is nothing new, it was still compelling thanks to the strength of the main characters, especially Zelda. I also rather enjoyed the good ending as it provides closure on one chapter while simultaneously leaving the door open for sequels/DLC. I really don't see what more they could have done with it, other than having Link and Zelda start making out like everyone seems to implicitly want out of Nintendo protagonists and their damsels these days.
Bought the DLC very late last night. Was hemming and hawing about buying it. Didn't want to send a message to Nintendo that I think this DLC Pack is great or that if they get big sales now they can just throw out whatever in the next pack(not that they'd do that). And I'm was going to buy it eventually so it may as well be now. Most of the items are too late and don't add a whole lot, especially as I've completely finished the game. The Tingle costume besides being disgusting and creepy is no different than the Dark Link costume in terms of its special effect.
But then I wanted to show that there's still Wii U owners waiting for the main DLC at Christmas. And MK8 DLC was bought well in advance, with nobody knowing what we were getting and that turned out great.
Anyway, I started the Sword Trial at midnight. Big mistake. It took way too long, didn't know before starting that the save points are at level 15 and 30. Got to 13 but it was taking ages and I was tired so I switched it off and I'll have to start again.
Ya.... I'd have to disagree. Even despite the stunted storyline, I liked everything else. Loved the shrines, loved the runes, loved the open world. Loved the physics based puzzles (many of which had me genuinely stumped, and countless puzzles I solved in a manner which wasn't the way it was supposed to be solved, which is so much more rewarding and gratifying than trying to solve a puzzle in a way that should make sense, but it doesn't work because there's only one "right" solution).
I wouldn't say it's a perfect game, but no game is. I still say BotW is a 10/10 all day long, and that's despite it's shortcomings. Which is all the more impressive. But no game in the last, oh Idk, 5 years, has made me feel the way this game has made me feel, or provided the fun this game has provided. The first 150 hours were pure bliss. After that it started to fade, but that's still 150 of the best hours I've ever spent in a video game. And... a lot of people agree.
edit
Forgot what I actually came here to post. Trials. So, I beat the Beginner Trial 2 days ago, and beat the Middle Trial yesterday... but I'm scared to death to even attempt the final master Trial. I just don't think I can do it. I traded some stamina for hearts so I have 30 full hearts, but just 2 full stamina wheels (figure hearts matter more in Trials). I don't know... I want to try to beat it but I don't want to fail and waste all that time and then have to start all over again. Took me several hours for each of the trials up to this point
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