Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

One thing they got completely right was the divine beasts' silhouettes showing against the sky from anywhere on the map. Taking that influence from Majora's Mask is so great, even if the dungeons weren't as good, and seeing the perched hawk's wings spread out against the sunset is just excellent. Admittedly, all it makes me want to do is go back to the Medoh and play a flying mini game with Revali, which is very definitely not in the game.

@Nicolai In my experience, and with a direct example being NL's review of both Donkey Kong Country Returns and Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze: reviewers tend to give the game higher scores, and thus perfect scores if the game really pushes the franchise forward beyond it's previous boundaries. Now, I actually like Returns better than TF, but many people preferred TF, and even I can't argue against TF's music, character design, and controls being better than Returns. And yet, Returns got a perfect score while TF didn't. The reason I believe, is that even though TF improved over Returns in practically every major point besides the number of levels, TF was too samey compared to Returns, didn't push the franchise forward, and didn't give enough new experiences that couldn't be found in Returns.

If you rate BotW based on only what it does well and what it does not, I can see the game getting less than a perfect score. However, if you rate this game based on the expectations of the franchise and the pitfalls of previous Zeldas, this game is an easy 100; easy. At least, that's my take on it.

@Haru17 It must have been too hard to make the transition between divine beasts and the overworld. The game seems to have two different modes: overworld mode, where you can climb and use divine powers, and shrine mode, where you can't. They must have had too hard of a time with that transition. I can't imagine it was a memory problem, cuz the background appeared to be fully rendered on top of Vah Medoh, at least as far as I could tell.

I agree that seeing Vah Medoh flying in the background was cool, and I almost missed seeing it after I beat it. I'm missing the MM influence though, are you saying it's like how MM would physically change an area after a dungeon was completed?

And I'm so disappointed that Vah Rudania didn't snipe us from miles away! Dang it Nintendo, read our minds! If you think about it, we actually ended up sniping it from far away.

No game realistically deserves 100/100, but plenty deserve the full 5 stars and a few certainly deserve 10/10. It's just what happens to 95% and above games under the n/10 system due to rounding. If you get so worried about giving out 'perfect scores' with a chunkier system that you flat out refuse to award 10s or 5s, then you effectively have a system that's rated out of 9 or 4, and no-one's any better off for it. You could say the same thing about the 100 scale, but in that case you're losing a much smaller amount of your available scale. Giving a 100/100 is making a pretty damn audacious statement. Giving a 10/10 is just using your review scale properly. At least, that's what I think.

Anyway, I've just finished Ganon for second time, this time with all the memories down. I must say, I've feeling a lot peachier about the whole story aspect having filled in the memories, and the proper ending was a lot more satisfying and meaningful than the first one I saw. It's obviously not as narratively driven as the games where most of the main characters aren't dead, and actually accompany you on your adventure, but through reading the various diaries and piecing together all the memories, there's a fair amount of interest to the whole affair. I can confidently say I like it, which is nice (even if the voice acting that much of it was spoken in wasn't my cup of tea).

I did feel that Ganon wasn't developed much beyond just being a 'bad thing' narratively, and when you find him, he's still just a obviously 'bad thing' but in the flesh (a really cool, freakily designed bad thing, but still just a 'bad thing'). Then you beat him, and there's no more bad thing, but the reason why there was ever a bad thing in the first place isn't made any more profound. I know they were trying to make him more of a 'force' than a 'character', so expecting much corresponding character development is unrealistic, but I wish a little more had been done to flesh him out.

Anyway, 10 more shrines to go, apparently 8 of them are shrine quests, which presumably means that 2 of them are still just hanging around the overworld. I've still got to do Eventide (the first time I attempted it I had 6 or 7 hearts, so it should be easier now with over 20), as well as the Dinraal quest, and then there's that ball in Impa's study which I kind of assume is the final shrine or something. We'll see. Hopefully I'll be able to find the whole lot without resorting to a guide, but it may get difficult. I'll do a lot of talking around in towns and stables. There aren't that many characters in the game, so getting prompts from all of themshouldn't be too hard.

Also, what are these flip-flapping shiny bugs all about?:

I know it was discussed a few pages ago, but I still haven't got my head around it. This is like the apple tree trio all over again!

@MasterWario, I suppose that's true, you can't really consider the story if you're only going by what the game does, not what it doesn't. It just could have made the game so much better. And the expectation for it was real; I think it was fair to previously assume that reason this game has voice-acting was because the developers had a really good story that could only be told by spoken words.

@Nicolai Yeah, but I mean it's Nintendo. They could have made the transition into and out of the divine beast seamless if they had made it a goal. They certainly had plenty of time, and the climbing systems are still 'on' in the shrines, they just only allow you to to the ledge step-up on Sheikah materials, not the full on stamina climbing.

So the Yiga Clan is Team Galactic in reverse. Alrighty.

@MasterWario I just want to say I thought that "wall of text" was a really solid, well made critique. It's nice to read something that level-headedly runs through the flaws without resorting to sullen melodrama or edgy posturing.

With regards to the durians, I've started to think there should be some 'fullness' mechanic applied to certain foods that overfill your health or stamina, meaning you can only consume one in a certain time period. As it is, they render pretty much all other 'plain' foods (and thus much of the fantastic cooking mechanic) pointless. A hearty dish will always be more beneficial than a non-hearty health restoring alternative, and while the game certainly limits hearty ingredients more than other ones, it doesn't take too long to build up a pretty big stock, meaning all those carefully crafted prime meat pies and other fancy dishes will be shunned in favour of a single durian chucked into a cooking pot. So yeah, durians OP.

@Nicolai That's a fair point and I agree. At the same time, is it enough to detract points if the rest of the game exceeded your expectations? I would say no, but that's just me.

@Maxz Thank you, I appreciate it! Sometimes you really don't know what people think of your writing, as forum etiquette is far different from in-person etiquette. That being said, I've only started reading this thread recently, but I've really enjoyed the topics you and others have been bringing up. Many things I would not have thought of otherwise, and it's nice to know I've been experiencing some of the same thoughts and ideas as other players.

The thing about durians which is interesting is that there are a few places on the map that you can collect a whole bundle of them at once. I think one is on the side of Satori Mountain and another is near the Faron Woods tower. You can get at least 10 all at once! There might be spots for the other overfill ingredients but I haven't found any so far.

The fullness idea sounds great, and I would actually like that for other meals as well (which would solve another issue I mentioned), but on a far smaller timer than the durian meals. Terraria does similarly with Potions, and I think it works pretty well.

I thought about this a couple days ago, can't wait to do it!!

@Operative2-0 it should not break when fighting Ganon or overworld Guardians (does not glow when fighting Shrines Guardians)

EDIT: actually it breaks. Tested it right now while farming Guardians

^This. I really can't stop thinking that way of Breath of the Wild. Maybe because i'm loving it all

By the way i remember wrong how zones was distributed. So i did not start Rito zone, but Hebra. In the meantime i did the Forgotten Temple, it was quite fun! Now Hebra!

@Tsurii
Relax, man. Huge difference between "hating" on a game and just pointing out things we didn't enjoy.

I LOVE the game.

I think the delivery of the story and the ending are immensely sub-par.

@Tsurii Don't tell me I'm looking for issues with the game. You lot may enjoy all this open world player agency schlock, but I've never loved one of those games outside of Bethesda games — they're always just okay. I do not enjoy open world games as much as other AAAs with actual plots, and Breath of the Wild is no exception to that. I like it, but it's a patently inferior game to much of the rest of the series on its actual merits when you look past the world size and look at what you're actually doing moment to moment. In my opinion. You can think differently, just don't talk that way to people who disagree.

Maybe i should not do it but i would like to specify that with my last post (3 above this one) i just wanted to say that we, as gamers, should care more about what we love in games, and not what we hate. We are moved by passion and love for videogames and we should care about positives, not negatives. I'm doing this just because maybe someone can take my post in the wrong way, and i don't want to. I'm not for war, especially with VG, especially here!

@MasterWario Yeah, you're ultimately right. A few weeks ago I was all into the philosophy of "take it for what it is, not what it isn't," and I still want to think that after all this let-down subsides. Still, at least for me, personally, this game is now less of what I thought it is, because up until now, I assumed the ending would be more incredible. Plus, since my favorite quest was the memories quest, I got pretty invested in it. But it's still a good explorative puzzle game and open-world physics engine. Besides, the original Legend of Zelda was good even with just a page of story in the title screen.

Just gotta shake it all off!

@Haru17 Agrees all around.

It's really difficult to tell a compelling and all encompassing story in an open world game. A rigid storyline with specific triggered events and surprising reveals don't work when you've got the freedom to do what you want when you want. If I'd have followed the directions of certain npc's then I would have gone after Ganon a week ago, instead I'm up in the mountains looking for diamonds. Your free, go create your own stories.

@BigBadJohn I disagree. All I'm really asking for is a little more out-in-the world explanation of the landscape (assuming it's not there) and a special ending that actually alludes to the picto-spots and ellaborates on them further, rather than just concluding them in the most boring way possible. Maybe even just adding a few more picto-spots and focus more on the champions. There doesn't have to be any direct causality until everything is explained at the end with a special ending, so i see no reason why it couldn't have worked in this case.

Like I said, Nintendo doesn't have to be literary geniuses, they just need to make it a tad more interesting, and there were ways to do it.

I'd also agree that a "take it for what it is, not what it isn't" philosophy has got some sense to it.

Perhaps it's because the game got so many tens, but I've noticed a trend across the internet of people who've made it their central passion to 'prove it isn't perfect', as though they're righting some sort of deep injustice. We know it isn't perfect. No game is perfect. But saying "oh, it's got 98, but I can find at least 4 things wrong with it, so how is that fair?" is just a depressing way of reviewing anything; it's counting back from 100 without counting forward at all based on the game's merits. It's assuming something could be perfect (which is stupid), and then docking marks for every point in which you think it's not.

Games are still an evolving artform/media/form of entertainment (delete the snootier ones if you prefer), and reviews should be a healthy mix of describing the products, critisising the flaws, and celebrating the successes. If a game is particularly transformative or noteworthy for introducing new ideas or elements, then it's natural that those grab a bigger share of the review inches. Simply 'counting back from 100' in order to prove what the game isn't says nothing about what the game is, and usually betrays a pretty sour streak in the writer.

The whole passive-aggressive, "oh hey Nintendo, couldn't you maybe have just ____, maybe? I mean, it's not like you were ever going to, but could you like, consider it maybe?" thing is tiresome to read.

That's not to say the internet should be a 'criticism-free zone', at all. Like I said, I thought MasterWario put really well-considered (and pretty hefty) list of crisisisms a few pages back, without resorting to bolshy edge-splaining. It felt like a level-headed critique on this game, rather than a self-indulgent angsty whinge about "how Nintendo wouldn't make my awesome game, with all of my awesome ideas in it".

Suggestions are great, but in some cases an over-fondness for melodramatic proclamations and a sense of being "wronged" by the game has severely limited the tone in which they're made.

Nintendo doesn't try. They have the resources at their disposal, they simply don't put forth the necessary effort to develop Zelda stories much. It's usually the same overall story, with one or two new interesting characters.

Oh I see! (Sorry, my mistake! - I previously thought you had meant the limited edition version of the guide book, but I can see now you meant the limited version of the game itself!)

For the game itself, I already have that same exact version which comes with the master sword, etc. (the thing I'm regretting not picking up before they sold out though was the gold version of the walkthrough guide) -I bought the colored version of the two limited edition hardback guides, but as the free map poster that comes with it is so massive, it's so massive, it's such a nightmare to use unless you pin it up on your wall, (However, as the map is on two sides, you can't realistically do that unless you have two). So I wanted to get a second one so that I could have both sides of the map up on my wall. The more expensive gold one that i wanted is now sold out everywhere though, so my eyes nearly lit up when I thought you were selling one of those! But anyways, will have to get the paperback version for the second guide book now that I know this is not what you had meant. (not sure if the cheaper paperback version comes with the map or not though)

Has anyone on here bought the standard paperback edition of the BoTW piggyback guide that can tell me if the map poster comes with that edition aswell or not? (it's not too clear on amazon, as while the description section say that it does, a couple of reviewers have said that theirs didn't). So either they just cloned the description text from the limited edition version when they made the amazon page text for the standard paperback version (and therefore is wrong, and doesn't come with the map) or the people complaining about it not coming with the map bought it off someone who resold it and took the map out before reselling it.