Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

Forgot to respond to this.

Oh I absolutely would've had that complaint and that's actually what I was feeling before the last few trailers where they revealed the controversial elements like the open world and the NPCs. What they were showing from the game up until that point felt largely samey.

It surely must be a difficult tightrope to walk, trying to figure out what to change and what not to change. Change too much and you risk the game losing its appeal. Don't change enough and the game feels repetitive and uninteresting. You really need to have a high level of understanding of what your game is and what the fans like about it and a high level of creativity to pull it off well. I do not envy these developers on that much, especially for some of the long running IPs that feel like they've done everything under the sun.

As for Prime 4 in particular, I think they picked the right elements to change but they didn't change them in the correct way and the game lost a part of its identity. The open world doesn't really add anything to the Metroidvania design, its dilutes it. They didn't handle the story and characters in a way that reveres the sense that Samus alone is traversing these hostile environments. The Psychic abilities are a good gimmick for this game, but I don't think they're executed well because most of them don't really do anything functionally different (many of them you just scan a mass of psychic energy and that materializes into a device that you interact with in the same way as the physical variant). The way they've gone about shaking up the formula definitely leads me to believe that this team simply doesn't understand Metroid that well (at best maybe on a surface level).

In a few minor ways maybe (for example, the overall map structure and connections between areas has always been different yes, but they're all mazes of rooms) but for the most part this is inaccurate.

I wouldn't expect anything soon. Nintendo is likely smarting from the incredibly-long development cycle for Prime 4, and probably would want to move back to their more traditional "announce things a year in advance tops" strategy. So, while sales being high might lead to Nintendo saying something vague like "we intend to continue the series", they won't actually make a specific announcement of a specific game. Or rather, they might announce something. . . but it'd be "the new 2D Metroid that was quietly in development that's coming out next fall" or the like.

@metaphysician 2D Metroid definitely feels like it should be close to ready since it's been 4 years since Dread. They're probably scheduling it so that they can announce it after Prime 4 fades from public consciousness. I'm not sure if that will be next year though, that may be 2027.

A long wait after a decade of nothing makes me want to say every thought I have about the game, but its just a bunch of small things after another 3 hours (3 actual hours, I don't think the in-game time counts anything in menus or reading scan text or anything).

My initial impressions of the desert is that I'm confused that people have strong feelings on it in any direction at all.

The bosses are pretty cool so far.

The exploding fire enemy things before the first save point in that area feel a bit like a difficulty jump.

Having to essentially get my sci-fi bike license is inherently very funny. This also makes me feel even more bad for F-Zero fans that Metroid beat it to having an HD race course for some reason.

@kkslider5552000
Fast Fusion gave me my F-Zero fix.

I feel like that game was grossly slept on. It's so good! And only $20. Yet I saw nobody talking about it since launch. I didn't get around to actually playing it until recently but, I love it.

And ya, about being surprised people felt one way or another- it seems people are hyper-emotional, hyper-critical about every aspect of every game nowadays. I just play games and have fun. I don't keep an Excel sheet listing all the minutia I felt "could have been better" or whatever, I just have fun. And either a game is fun, or it isn't.

I play Farming Simulator... that's not a fun game to me. I play Pokemon Sword... that's not a fun game to me. I play Fast Fusion? I'm having hella fun. I play Mario Kart World? Hella fun. Metroid Prime 4? Hella fun. I think we'd all enjoy this hobby more savoring the entertainment we engage rather than pick it apart with a scalpel.

That's why all our favorite games from the past are regarded so highly- because we weren't dissecting every line of code when playing them.

I think the issue with F-Zero spiritual sequels/homages is. . . people don't like F-Zero strictly for the high speed racing. They also like it for the art style and characters/story ( limited and broadly sketched it might be ). For the latter, Fast RMX probably doesn't scratch the itch very well.

F-Zero 99 did a very good job of scratching my F-Zero itch.

People just want different things from the series, that's all.

@Matt_Barber
F-Zero 99 was very well done, but as someone who did play F-Zero on SNES but didn't truly fall in love with it until F-Zero X on N64 (and later, F-Zero GX on Gamecube) I needed some proper 3D action.

I won't say Fast Fusion is as good as F-Zero GX, which is available on Switch 2 BTW, but its campaign isn't so impossibly difficult as GX, and while I love F-Zero for the external cylindrical pipes, underwater tunnels and super sharp, tight turns using both triggers, and typically dislike every other copycat in the genre because of the handling not being as tight, Fast series is an exception.

The color changing mechanic genuinely adds a layer of strategy that I think would elevate F-Zero to be even better, and the racing still feels right in its own way. Being able to hop/jump to collect spheres for your boost gage residing in the air, or taking a parallel track with boost strips, gives it its own identity in a way other copycats don't.

I'll continue to want a new F-Zero, but with GX on Switch 2 and now Fast Fusion, I feel my soul is at least at peace. I do recommend for anyone who still appreciates this forgotten genre.

Another good example of a semi-open world would be Shadow Man, if any of you have ever played it. It was released 2 years before MP1. Instead of a central hub you have linear corridors (leading you to different areas of the game) whose sections unlock one after the other upon gaining enough energy/power (like in BotW when you need a certain amount of hearts to remove the sword, but more subtly designed as there is no grind really if you explore the world well enough).

So I caved in and finally started MP2 again, and what strikes me is how complex the levels are (rooms with 3 or 4 doors are frequent), the backtracking is real but it feels like you never actually take the same route as the doors unlock naturally. And the enemies that ambush you change most of the time between your visits. In MP4, if you take Fury Green for instance, you only walk through the entire area twice (not considering the countless visits to base camp which, looking back, could have been set in Sol Valley and given that area a bit more purpose) as there is no reason to go back after visiting it a second time with your double jump boots.

@kkslider5552000
For me it's just that Sol Valley seems utterly pointless and makes the backtracking, an aspect that has never bothered me in Metroid, quite a bit less fun. I really think the game would've been better off without it.

I just got this game for Christmas and I love it!!! It does such a good job of connecting the environments through Sol Valley, and the Federation soldiers aren't nearly as irritating as the previews suggested.
10/10 all around

@Gamer83
We'll see what they do for the next game.

I didn't mind Sol Valley and wouldn't mind a hub in the future. But what I do want to see (and I mentioned this in my little amateur YT impressions vid), is the individual areas less linear with larger regions blocked off. As long as they do that, I'm good with the hub.

As someone above mentioned, I think Metroid Prime 2 is the perfect example of what I prefer. Which, it also had a hub, and I think Sol Valley is more engaging than it was, but I'm also perfectly fine going back to the Prime 2 approach- either way works for me. I'd just like less linearity, hub or not.

I started playing MP4 today after getting it for Christmas, and so far it has been pretty good! I'm not really a hardcore Metroid fan, having only played Metroid Prime Remastered previously, so I don't have as much stake in this game being a correct Metroid experience. I enjoyed mouse mode, even without any sort of 3rd-party grip. I really like how easy it is to shift between control styles and how it allows me to switch between stick controls when exploring and mouse controls when fighting pretty seamlessly. Finally, I think the music team did a great job creating the score of the game, just by what I've heard so far.

Those were my first impressions of the game, but now it is time for my MYLES MACKENZIE FIRST IMPRESSIONS (scary)! Yeah, uh, he's a guy who is there. I don't like his dialogue, but it isn't infuriating as some have claimed. Also, he was gone after just a few rooms, so I do not see why everyone was saying he ruined the game. I don't think he destroyed the feeling of isolation as some say, at least for me.

@JaxonH
I just don't see how they could keep a hub world and make it redeemable. I'd much rather MP 5 be closer to 1 in terms of design. That's a damn near perfect Metroid game, imo. Of course, that doesn't mean it can't keep some elements from later games. I have to admit the NPCs, even two who really annoyed me at first, are much less of a bother as the game has gone on (though I do think they could down on the frequency of tips you get). So, a little more fleshed out story, with Samus possibly speaking as well, wouldn't bother me as long as balance it well with that isolated feeling.

@Gamer83
It sounds like they won't have an open hub next time. Apparently, it was in response to fan demand for an open world approach, but by the time sentiments changed it was already locked in

Per Retro:

"At the start of the project, perhaps due to the influence of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, we saw a lot of comments on the internet saying we want to play an open-world Metroid. However, Metroid's core element of
increasing the amount of explorable areas by unlocking powers' is not very compatible with the freedom to go anywhere from the beginning of open worlds. Thus we thought to design a limited area that could be freely explored, and have that be a hub that could connect to other areas. Then we thought that if one could move around on the bike in a satisfying way in that area, it could be a segment that mitigates the tension of exploration and paces the whole game.

In the end, the game took much longer than expected to finish, and we realized that players impressions toward open-world games had changed. That being said, development had alread been reset once before (when we started again from scratch with Retro Studios) so backtracking development again was out of the question, and we resolved to move forward with our original vision. During this time, shooting games and action games went through evolutions, with an increase in game speed in particular, but taking in those changes would have made it difficult to construct the tempo of an adventure game, so we actively chose to not take them into account. Therefore, I think this game is pretty much divorced from the changing of times."

So I guess my theory about the years being ambiguous may be incorrect.
A recent Famitsu interview gave a confirmation on timeline placement.
https://famiboards.com/threads/new-famitsu-interview-with-nin...

After Super Metroid, but before Fusion. I’m pretty sure this places Prime 4 as the only Prime series game to take place after Metroid II now. While all Metroids were (assumed to be) eliminated in Metroid II, I guess it does make sense that some could be hidden away for some time like Sylux who had stolen one and cloned it.

I suppose this confirmation can open up games in the future to not being locked to before Metroid II in the timeline and possibly avoiding other timeline contradictions. I did see some/retconning of Federation Force and kind of Hunters. (Cutscene unlocked via Sylux amiibo or 100% scans/items spoiler) Mechs are seen before Sylux steals his suit (supposedly were created in Federation Force for powerful enough weaponry against the space pirates) and Samus’ Prime 3 gunship also appears in the cutscene, meaning she had it before Prime Hunters too. But it could be feasible that she has multiple ships as a way to explain its existence.

Other interesting tidbits from the interview btw, seems Retro had worked on some of what was already there from the previous development team (presumably Bandai Namco Singapore).

@JaxonH
is metroid prime 5, metroid dread

Some very interesting insights here about why Prime 4 ended up this way and I'm not entirely sure how to feel about it. In particular, finding that the original Prime 4 build by Bandai Namco was NOT completely scrapped like they said and Retro basically had to push through the original concept because they didn't have the time/money is kind of sus and it really makes me feel bad for Retro. They knew many of us would hate this concept but still had to do it anyway.

Glad they've realized that open world wouldn't really work in Metroid and that this is the farthest they'd take it. If the whole game was this empty it probably would've ended up worse.

I'm not sure I understand what they're saying as to why we got the companions, especially the first part (it is worth noting that the interview was A.I. translated so that might be why this is so confusing).

"In our approach to game design, we often start by setting the theme we want players to experience in that title. Normally, when players clear a game, they press the A button without hesitation, right? But for Metroid Prime 4, we wanted to make them feel hesitation and conflict there. That's why we decided to have Galactic Federation soldiers also be transported to Planet Viewros."

What does this mean? That they don't want players button mashing through the story?

Overall it's very disappointing that they couldn't restart the game the way they claimed but at least this means they won't be continuing in this direction for Prime 5. Hopefully they have a much better concept for Prime 5.

@Ninfan No, Metroid Prime 5 is a hypothetical sequel to Prime 4. The Prime games are a subseries of the mainline Metroids, which are 2D.

The mainline Metroids are Metroid -> Metroid II: Return of Samus -> Super Metroid -> Metroid Fusion -> Metroid Dread.

The Prime series is Metroid Prime -> Metroid Prime 2: Echoes -> Metroid Prime 3: Corruption -> Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

Metroid Prime 5 doesn't exist yet. There's speculation and even rumors that Retro is starting on it now that Prime 4 is done.

@JaxonH Whomever was asking for an open-world Metroid should be deeply ashamed of themselves. I don't want open-world anything, let alone Metroid.

Death to open-world!

@yokokazuo There's nothing that limits the appearance of Metroids to before Metroid 2.

Both Fusion and Other M establish that the Baby Metroid (That we all call Squishy because it's just a precious little thing) had samples taken to produce new Metroids from. Because the Federation are a bit dubious at times.

That's how Metroids show up in both Other M and Fusion, and it's not unreasonable to assume based on them appearing in two separate GF facilities, that Sylux would find one in a third.

Plus Raven Beak's entire plan was making a Metroid army out of Samus, because you know....Fusion happened. Just because we think they're gone doesn't mean they are. The X Parasites were assumed gone and look how that turned out.