Topic: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond

@Ninfan
Hold ZR to go, ZL to break and sharply drift or change direction. B will boost and subsequently pressing B immediately after boosting does a slide attack.

You even fight a boss in Sol Valley while on the bike, which is just as rad as it sounds.

One of the reasons I enjoyed this so much is that I really struggle with the first-person perspective in games- in the sense I struggle with navigating surroundings.

I know some folks have felt that this game was “dumbed-down”, but this is certainly the most playable FP game I have ever played.

I’m not entirely sure what made it feels so much more accessible (perhaps the linearity) but I rarely felt lost in the game, which made it much more enjoyable in the whole.

While I loved Prime 1 (the only other FP game I have ever completed) I was often frustrated with feeling lost- and this was a spatial awareness thing more than it being a maze of sorts.

This, coupled with some of the other things people have knocked the game for, makes me suspect that Nintendo/Retro were trying to cast a wider net with Beyond.

I know many people have faulted some of the design decisions, but in this case I love it.

My mom is 73. We attended a Christmas concert with a symphony at Calvary Baptist yesterday evening.

When we came back I set up a dock for her TV, plopped my Switch 2 in and started a new game in Metroid Prime 4, and told her this is the game that kept my brother from coming with us (he works a lot too so). Said, "behold the wonder" and proceeded to play all the way up through getting Vi-O-La. I've never seen her so mesmerized by a video game 😀

Told her I used to watch my brother play the original all day 20 years ago- it's just so interesting to watch.

@JaxonH

Well, my Metroid prime 4 Switch 2 edition works pretty fine. Only the initial loading of the save-file takes long, but I can live with that.

I won't be downloading my Nintendo Switch 2 digital First-party games, because of all the used memory-space and the need for using expensive Express microsd cards. Yes, from now on I might go for the Switch 2 physical editions, even if the boxes are ugly. But it depends on the price. I bought the Switch version because I wasn't sure of buying a Switch 2 in time for the game, but when I went for a Switch 2 I also downloaded the upgrade-pack. As a whole it did cost me 60 Euro, the Switch 2 physical edition would have costed me more!

I mainly bought the physical edition because, with Nintendo's pricing policy and some healthy retail competition here, it worked out at thirty dollars cheaper.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/puzzles/crosswor... samus was in the crossword

I truly believe that 10 years from now, when people look back on Metroid Prime 4, it's going to be regarded as one of the most underrated games of its generation.

It's wild to me how almost every game that lands on my list of all time faves, is underrated. Consider the following:

Metroid Prime 4 was "critically" assessed to be no better than Metroid Other M. That is absolutely wild to me. Even those who regard the game as flawed in their eyes can't convince me they actually think Metroid Other M is just as good. It's not happening. Anyone with sense can see that's not even remotely true.

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is widely regarded as the best 2D platformer of all time. And I completely agree. Yet the "critical response" barely ranked it better than your average Pokemon or Hyrule Warriors game.

Prince of Persia Lost Crown is the best 2D metroidvania I've ever played. Even better than Metroid Dread. And yet its "critical response" would have you believe it's worse, and not even in the top 10 of highest rated games in the genre.

Trials Rising doesn't really have a genre, but it's one of the finest video games I've ever had the pleasure of playing. I literally beat the game twice on 2 separate platforms, and am halfway to beating it a 3rd time. And I never replay games like that. It's utter perfection! Yet again, the "critical response" wants you to think it's on par with Metroid Other M, Pokemon Legends Z-A and Hyrule Warriors Age of Imprisonment. Don't get me wrong, those are all good games, but Trials Rising is an exceptional game.

Pikmin 4 is another one- absolutely stellar game I feel doesn't get the recognition it deserves. "Critical response" is good, don't get me wrong. But this is better than just "good".

Splatoon 3... yet another one. Easily in my top 10 faves of all time. "Critical response" says not even as good as all those other generic shooters.

I just don't get it. There are some games where I feel the critical reaponse was right in line (Xenoblade 3, for example, and the Zelda BotW/TotK releases). But more times than not I find all the best games are somehow not recognized as such. It's wild.

Not that it matters. It's not like these games are any less enjoyable as a result. It's just odd that aboht 2/3rds of the best games I've ever played, you wouldnt know it based on the people whose job it is to communicate how fun they are. Maybe I'm just unique with my preferences. But I don't think so. My brother agrees with me for all of these games, except Pikmin because he hasn't played it yet.

@JaxonH Remember that score aggregators aren't designed to invite comparisons between games in different genres so much as to provide a quick sense of how a game is faring overall. Trials Rising scoring similarly to, say, a Pokemon game isn't like some collective agreement among those reviewers that they're of similar quality. Also, when it comes to games in niche genres, you're generally going to see lower critical scores overall regardless, just because those games don't impress people as widely as something in a more mainstream friendly genre. It's the same reason, more often than not, you'll see those Sony cinematic action adventure games winning big at TGA (although the last few years have definitely defied that trend), and why Nintendo will never have a chance unless it releases something like Zelda in a given year.

And sometimes you're just gonna have an unpopular opinion. And that's okay. Metroid Prime 4, even once people chill out about certain topics, will probably be regarded as the worst mainline entry in the series for the general structure of the game, the boring crystal hunt near the end/desert driving in general, and the way companions are integrated throughout. And tbh, I've only played the demo for Prince of Persia, and what I played WAS good, but nothing in that demo gripped me nearly to the same extent as Metroid Dread. Sometimes you just play certain games, are totally blown away, and other people don't feel the same way.

Like, for you, Xenoblade 3's 89 metacritic score was 'right in line' with the quality of the game itself, but for me, it's probably the best game I've ever played, and I don't say that lightly. But the metascore puts it in line with NBA 2K3 and New Super Mario Bros. shrug

It's weird, I've constantly felt like the game is gonna be shorter than Prime 1, even though I'm currently 17 hours in and haven't finished yet (not long out of the Mines, been doing some item backtracking, green crystals etc) and I don't think I spent much more time with Prime Remastered in full. It felt like my progression through PR was slower, but the time played doesn't suggest that. Not really sure why that is.

@Ralizah
Good point about niche games. And I know it's not a perfect science. It's just hard for me to understand why the best games I play are generally never received as such.

While I think Prime 4 is the best in the series, I wouldn't find it strange at all if others thought it was the worst in the series. But Metroid Other M? The game with a d-pad for 3D movement, you wanna talk about NPCs and dialog? That game had way more talking than Prime 4. The game that required changing how you hold the controller every time you'd shoot a missile? The game that everyone hated as an "abomination" to the series? The game where I can't name a single thing I'm aware of it did better (be it graphics, controls, dialog, boss fights, combat... maybe map design?) That's just wild to me.

You really should play Prince of Persia The Lost Crown. I didn't think it was the best at first either. But by the time you get your last upgrade and have come to understand just how well designed the maps are and the insanely creative puzzles and perfect pacing of upgrades and fantastic boss fights... I'm telling you it's better than Dread. And I adore Metroid Dread. It's not a knock on Dread. It's just that good. It's like judging Tropical Freeze based on the first island. It's good! But you don't realize the greatness until the 6th island after you've experienced the game in fullness.

Metroid Prime 4 looking like it's gonna have some legs- a nice change for the series!

It's been almost 2 weeks now and it's still #1 on the eShop (plus still getting additional sales on on NS1 eShop around #10) and even on Amazon it's hanging on at #20 overall (includes hardware, Roblox cards etc so #20 is really high).

You know how happy this makes me? Even if it didn't do much in Japan (I mean, it debuted at 3x higher than Metroid Prime Remastered there, but that's not saying much), it seems like it's actually doing very well in the U.S. Is it possible this game could actually outsell Metroid Dread in the long term? Time will tell. I think it'll take longer to hit 3 million but over time, it could catch and surpass Dread.

@eldersnake Maybe it's because of the backtracking? Prime 1 has some pretty long backtracking sequences because of how spread out some of the areas are. I know Prime 4 has some irritating backtracking itself, but it generally just involves going through the desert, aside from that the backtracking didn't take long. But Prime 1 definitely has some segments where your next destination is very far away. Most notably anything involving going to or from Phendrana (which happens frequently because there's multiple instances where you have to go to Phendrana for one upgrade before leaving for another area) takes an eternity because the only way to enter and exit Phendrana is through Magmoor Caverns.

Haven’t been able to play since Saturday as I sliced my left thumb pretty badly. I’m so close to the end, and I wanted to see it through lol. I’ll probably have to wait a few more days unfortunately until this heals up.

@NintendoByNature Oof, that sucks. As someone whose finger was nearly split in half by a lawnmower accident one time, I'll just say I sympathize and wish for your fast recovery.

@JaxonH You know, my favorite game in a given year is rarely one that wins the plurality of awards, either, or scores the highest on Metacritic. You could probably pick ten different gamers off the street and get ten wildly different answers about what the best games released in a given year were, with everyone feeling like they're justified in their answers. In terms of the games you feel strongly about sometimes not scoring amazingly, I guess I'd say enthusiasts and nerds like us often have different priorities for our entertainment than what the general populace values, and that will impact our subjective evaluation of how good a given game is.

I think, once people settle down, most will agree it's better than Other M. The internet is in a particularly anti-Nintendo mood as of late, so the knives are coming out for any game from them that has a flawed or controversial element that can be attacked and meme'd on.

Yeah, I'll have to give Prince of Persia a go sometime. Especially since it goes rather cheap in sales (lol Ubisoft), and Rayman Origins/Legends are, frankly, some of my all-time favorite platformers. Just a pity it sold poorly and that team was disbanded.

@Ralizah @JaxonH

I would actually second giving The Lost Crown a try. I wouldn't necessarily say its the best metroidvania I've played in recent years, but it is a surprisingly distinct and interesting one. It basically doesn't play like the common flavors, while also having its own setting. The standout part being the boss fights, which really sell the "Ancient Persian Superheroes" creative vision of the game.

As for the bizarre strain of Other M apologia. . . well, nothing ever only has one simple reason, and "a general environment of anti-Nintendo hostility" is certainly part of it. But well before this, I've been seeing occasional bursts of apologia for Other M. I think there are at least two notable sources:

1. An ideology of "Story is meaningless in video games". Which, since the rejection of Other M is first and foremost about its terrible story, must mean that Other M is "actually" good, or at least better than commonly accepted. Because its condemned for its story, and that "isn't actually a valid reason to judge a game".

2. A low media literacy viewpoint that refuses to acknowledge a different between creative intent versus creative execution. Other M being ambitious in its objectives in a lot of ways, so a person not able or willing to see past that goal judging very positively. . . not the game, but the dream image of what the game could have been.

Oh, and my own story of underrated gems? Alpha Protocol. One of the best western RPGs to this day, and easily the best spy themed video game. Yes, it has bugs and kludge, but no moreso than countless other games rated much more positively, even just by the same developer. My own theory is that, because the game superficially looks like an action game? Way too many review venues handed it off to their action game reviewer, rather than their RPG reviewer. Thus negative reviews from critics penalizing it for being a bad action game, who didn't bother to engage with its RPG design and mechanics. Or, in at least one case I vaguely recall, never even spending any skill points during their review playthrough.

Finally got into the mines. Dang, this is great. I’m down to the third level/layer. Oh wow, so many emotions as I keep going through it.

This had me thinking…there are so many incredible set pieces throughout this game. It’s awesome. I feel like it’s similar to Uncharted at times (or what I think is like Uncharted, only played a small amount of the first game). But, it has scripted events that are so cool…I am surprised that more people haven’t been bringing this up (outside of forums like this). Hope to have the mines beat tomorrow…and yeah, they get pretty tough.

@Ralizah ahh yea thanks. It’s pretty rough. Can’t even put pressure on it at the moment. You don’t realize how much you use your thumb until you can’t 😂. Soon enough lll be back on MP4

As the guy who predicted that it would score about the same as Other M, I'd like to point out a couple of things in its defence.

Firstly, there's been a fair amount of grade deflation over the years with review scores and it's much harder to get the high scores of the trilogy era. Prime Remastered is the one game that bucked the trend, but I'd think that reviewers cut it a lot of slack for being an old game with updated graphics and controls. They probably wouldn't have been nearly so friendly if a new game played similarly to it.

Secondly, Other M isn't nearly as bad as its reputation suggests. Sure, it's one of the weaker games in the series, but Metroid fans are a demanding bunch and prone to going in with sky high expectations that are difficult to meet.

@Matt_Barber
My issues with Other M were not anything to do with the game itself, but rather, the abomination of a control scheme it enforced.

D-pad for 3D movement and changing position of the controller in hand any time you shoot missiles... how did that ever get past the suits at Nintendo and end up on store shelves?

If Other M had normal controls (remaster when?) I'd think it a great game, from what portion I've played. I couldn't stick with it cause ya, that control scheme.

I don't know if there's been score deflation so much as there's been a paradigm shift in the culture where more and more, games are judged according to a different set of criteria than in the past. Such as marks against games wherever they don't conform to expectations of what is believed to be "allowed", as well as a desire to conform opinions to whatever direction the cultural current is perceived to be flowing. If a game has some controversy before release, that signals to many they should harp on that aspect critically because that's what will be expected of them. I think many reviewers are less independent than they used to be in their assessments. And I think there's more rogue review outlets nowadays that abuse their position to enact agendas- if they're upset with a company for which we see ebb and flow be it against EA, Ubisoft, Nintendo, etc, they tend to take it out on their games.

I think Ubisoft has been the biggest victim of this. At least 2 of their games are on my all time faves list, both of which are severely underrated. And released at a time when it was popular to hate Ubisoft for everything they did.

Other M felt like if you took bayonetta, made all but 1 combo functionally useless, and made the movement even stiffer. You're watching over an hour in cutscenes which were all just assassinating samus's character (maybe if this was samus's first re-encounter with ridley her having a ptsd moment would make some sense but... seriously? Other M takes place after the primes and super metroid) and the highs of the game are parallel to it's lows cause the entire gameplay loop is dodge-charge beam-release, dodge-charge beam-release, with some missiles once in a awhile but not because you want to but because the game requires you to inorder to deal with some obstacle.

As a plot, it didn't fit. As for gameplay, it wasn't unplayable but it was certainly not among the greatest and there's plenty of examples of just how much better they could've handled it. It was cool seeing samus Supplex some enemies or jumping on them and point blanking with a charge shot but it ain't like there was much to it to really feel rewarding.