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Topic: Super Mario 3D All-Stars

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App

Eel wrote:

They want you to do in one go what future games would give you 2 checkpoints for.

I just got bad memories from Corona Mountain

App

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Mark9

I feel like I've spent enough time with all three games now to give a proper 2020 viewpoint.

Super Mario 64. Back when i first played this in 2001, I was all over it. Now I find the platforming pretty frustrating. The nostalgia lies in the first five worlds or so. Once I get to the second snow level I feel done with the game and frustrated. The slog of trying to get up Tall, Tall mountain, falling off that log and doing it all over again drives me nuts. Same with Tick-Tick clock and a few others. It's not my favourite in the trilogy.

Super Mario Sunshine. I've tried to start again on this game so many times and each time I get about ten shines before I give up. Here, I'm trying to make a huge effort to get it finished and I'm finding it a chore. Some of the shines such as the Orange Yoshi challenge in Pina Park are just annoying. The jumping feels janky and there's so much stupid nonsense that gets in the way. I'm way behind on Sunshine compared to the other games and getting the strength to try all again on certain levels is torture. That pinball level is ridiculous.

Super Mario Galaxy. I adore this game to my very core. Imagination, pure platforming, full on enjoyment. The greatest music, the greatest levels IMO. The stars feel like proper little adventures and even the star in a ball levels have an edge of skill compared to the nonsense in Sunshine. Playing Galaxy is a joy.

I plan on playing through Galaxy 2 again this year to complete the set but if I was to order them..

1. Super Mario Galaxy 2
2. Super Mario Galaxy
3. Super Mario Odyssey
4. Super Mario 64
5. Super Mario Sunshine

Mark9

jump

App wrote:

I just got bad memories from Corona Mountain

What a terrible name in hindsight. It makes me wonder what the Corona beer sales are like at the moment.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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StuTwo

@Mark9 I'd probably rank those 5 games in the same order as you.

Mario 64 is weaker in the back half of the game. It's harder & more frustrating - certainly - but it's also less open ended. Later levels like Rainbow Ride often require you to lock into a particular route and it loses much of the "sandbox" feel of the first few levels (although Tall Tall Mountain is a personal favorite of mine).

Galaxy is just so good. I've been playing Mario 3 recently on the NSO (the gorgeous SNES version) and Galaxy has a similar feel to play - both can actually be quite challenging games in places but everything is just so frictionless, the platforming is always fair and ideas rarely ever overstay their welcome.

StuTwo

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Mountain_Man

Super Mario 64 and Sunshine feel like the design sensibilities of the 2D games, with limited lives and brutal difficulty, translated into a 3D game world. Galaxy is a lot more generous with lives and isn't nearly as difficult giving it a more relaxed pacing. But of the three, I give the edge to Sunshine because of its amazing hub world that doesn't feel like a hub world, and the more open, non-linear level design. Galaxy is a wonderful game, but of all the 3D Mario titles, it is probably the most linear.

The Mountain Man

Beaucine

@StuTwo

I'm not sure I agree about the latter half of Mario 64. Other than Rainbow Ride, the rest are still sandboxes: Wet-Dry, Tall, Tall Mountain, Tiny-Huge, Tik-Tok, etc. Those are some of the best levels, once you get the hang of them, and fairly open. (Tik-Tok a bit less so, because of the extreme verticality, but there's plenty of variety and room for improvisation on the way up.) Even Snowman's Land, one of the weaker levels, is very open to different approaches. And even Rainbow Ride's lower half, before the forking routes (to the ship and the house), is still very flexible.

Beaucine

Octoguy

Just finished Sunshine for the first time ever and I was pleasantly surprised. I’ve seen tons of people say the game is “glitchy” and “frustrating” but I didn’t think that at all while playing it. Overall, I loved it, it’s an incredibly delightful game and, in my opinion, much better than Galaxy.

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Let’s play Animal Crossing together!

Dezzy

Mountain_Man wrote:

Galaxy is a wonderful game, but of all the 3D Mario titles, it is probably the most linear.

3D Land and 3D World are definitely more linear than Galaxy.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Matt_Barber

Galaxy 2 is more linear than the first game too. You literally move through the worlds on a line.

Matt_Barber

RR529

Started up Galaxy recently, and I had forgotten how creative & generally joyful it is. It can be a bit difficult to line up a jump correctly on the small planetoids (more than once I have misjudged a jump, landing in front of a Goomba or Piranha Plant & taking a hit), but no other issues thus far.

Currently Playing:
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PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)

StuTwo

Beaucine wrote:

@StuTwo

I'm not sure I agree about the latter half of Mario 64. Other than Rainbow Ride, the rest are still sandboxes: Wet-Dry, Tall, Tall Mountain, Tiny-Huge, Tik-Tok, etc. Those are some of the best levels, once you get the hang of them, and fairly open. (Tik-Tok a bit less so, because of the extreme verticality, but there's plenty of variety and room for improvisation on the way up.) Even Snowman's Land, one of the weaker levels, is very open to different approaches. And even Rainbow Ride's lower half, before the forking routes (to the ship and the house), is still very flexible.

Oh I agree they're all definitely more open than Galaxy (and Tall Tall Mountain is definitely a classic sandbox - a personal favorite level too) and there's always room for improvisation in them, they're just more likely to require you to commit more to a particular route/sequence of pre-determined obstacles than the earlier courses like Thowmp's Fortress and Bob Omb Battlefield.

Rainbow Ride in some ways feels like a prototype Galaxy level with branching paths and without the walls that you can kick off to create an impromptu short cut.

I stand by my belief that the later levels are weaker overall though. Wet Dry World doesn't work well IMO and Snowman's Land is probably the weakest level in the game. Rainbow Ride and Tik Tock Clock are both imaginative and visually great but they are levels where the slightly clumsy hit detection and the poor camera really fight against normal players.

As an aside on the topic of Tik Tock Clock though... that's a level theme that Nintendo should definitely revisit in the future with the benefit of 25 years more experience making these games. It's almost criminal that they've never gone back to that (apart from in Mario Kart).

StuTwo

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Balta666

@StuTwo actually I would say Galaxy is very very easy (even more so than odyssey for 100% completion)

Edited on by Balta666

Balta666

1UP_MARIO

@StuTwo they did go back to tick tock clock on Mario 3d land. A great level

We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

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StuTwo

@Balta666 I'd agree to a point - it's not a game that personally gives me a lot of trouble. My young daughter wouldn't agree however. For her it is a much more difficult game than 3D World or Odyssey.

Anyone (and this isn't meant as any personal criticism - just an observation) who thinks that any of the core Mario games is "very very easy" has probably played far more videogames than 95%+ of the target audience.

Technically some of the jumps and obstacles ask a lot of the player but the camera, hit detection, checkpointing and generally short level length makes it easy to digest. By contrast I think that Sunshine often has platforming that's simpler in design but that's less forgiving/feels like deaths are the fault of poor design/coding execution rather than player error.

StuTwo

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StuTwo

@1UP_MARIO Ah - I've never played 3D Land so that passed me by!

StuTwo

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1UP_MARIO

@StuTwo if you have a 3ds it’s definitely a title i’d recommend

We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

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StuTwo

@1UP_MARIO Unfortunately I don't have one. I have contemplated buying one (given they are now so cheap and games are also cheap) for 3D Land and Link Between Worlds and a few other games but I just can't really justify it when I've got so much barely played on my Switch.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

1UP_MARIO

@StuTwo it’s a great system with a fantastic library. The problem is too many games and not enough time to even play them, I still have a bunch of games still sealed as I bought loads from clearance sales in argos. Games as cheap as £1.75

We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

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Beaucine

@StuTwo

I agree on Snowman's Land and, partly, on Rainbow Ride.

That said, I guess that, by now, I've accepted that my mileage with Mario 64 clearly varies compared to others. I don't know if I just got used to the game very quickly or what, but stuff that drives other people nuts — like the swimming controls --, I didn't even notice until I read it on here. And levels like Tick Tock never particularly frustrated me, either. The only objective that got me close to rage-quitting was the 100-coin star in Rainbow Ride.

But I've been gaming for about 30 years now, so there's a lot of accumulated know-how I take for granted. The other day, I had a non-gamer friend try out the "very, very easy" Mario Galaxy (which, to me, is indeed very, very easy) and, even on the first level, it was like watching him try to understand nuclear physics while doing backflips on a beach ball.

Edited on by Beaucine

Beaucine

ToadBrigade

Beaucine wrote:

And levels like Tick Tock never particularly frustrated me, either. The only objective that got me close to rage-quitting was the 100-coin star in Rainbow Ride.

I’m the opposite. Tick-Tock’s 100-coin star was the most frustrating in the game for me (mostly because I would get really close and then die) while I got Rainbow Ride’s 100-coin star on the second try!

Hollow Knight for Smash!

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