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Topic: Fire Emblem: Three Houses

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Snaplocket

@RedderRugfish I've played every game with casual mode enabled and there's still plenty of strategy.

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RedderRugfish

@Snaplocket Compared to what? The older Fire Emblem games? Other strategy RPGs? I don't doubt that there's still some strategy, but enough to really make it stand out gameplay wise?

I've played quite a few other strategy RPGs. Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, Ogre Battle 64, La Pucelle, etc. Mechanics wise, all of these games are far deeper than any of the 3 Fire Emblem games I've played, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to play FE when the one thing that makes it interesting is removed (unless you really like crummy anime stories).

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-Green-

Fire Emblem Conquest was fairly complex. Mostly because of how common Skills were. The game would force you to constantly keep track of many many skills, Terrain changes (in some case), weapon triangle (which they bloated a lot), stat changes, the Pair Up mechanic, etc. I’d easily say it’s a complex game that demanded a whole lot of thought to beat on higher difficulties

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JaxonH

The most persuasive point of view is the one that can empathize with other points of view. When you adamantly reject what someone else enjoys and try to beat your point of you into them as being “correct”, the only thing you ensure is that people will be twice as likely to reject the view you espouse, even if just out of spite.

There is plenty of appeal in casual mode. I fell in love with the series in casual mode. You don’t need the threat of losing someone permanently to gain the motivation of performing your best and not losing someone. Pride of accomplishment is a very heavy motivator. And that’s all one needs to play the game on casual and enjoy it just as much. Whether or not that’s your preference, or whether you can relate as your own personal motivator, I would hope most people would at least understand (or try to understand) that this is a truth for many, if not the majority.

Saying you “can’t understand” something that holds true for the vast majority only proves a lack of understanding, which I suspect is due more to a lack of willful effort than an actual lack of capacity.

Edited on by JaxonH

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RedderRugfish

If I came across as brash and unopen, then I apologize. I stated that as a casual fan of the older games I didn't see why a mechanic they implemented in later games (which I did not play, my opinion is literally just as an observer) would work well when it went against what I felt was the main aspect of the series compared to other games.

Imagine if you played and enjoyed the first few Mario Kart games, and then the later ones turned Mario into an anime pretty boy and gave you an option to turn off the items which many people loved. And then you find that these new games are suddenly way more successful than the old games even though they don't require the items, which was what you felt was the main thing that set it apart from other games of the genre. And the people who were introduced to Mario Kart through these new games can't imagine going back to the old ones and being forced to race with items. I'll admit that it's a rough analogy but just go with it for now.

In the Fire Emblem games I played, fighting through the maps and beating the boss at the end was not hard at all. If the games didn't have the permadeath to force me to pay attention, then I would have just breezed through the games without putting much thought or strategy into any of it, and it simply would not have held my attention or left any lasting impressions on me. It turned the game from being just a watered down Tactics Ogre wannabe to being a game that was fun and interesting for even more seasoned players of the genre.

And before anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm not some masochist who really likes his games hard and then likes to go brag about his mad skillz on the internet and complains about every game being too easy. But I never felt that the permadeath was a feature that was there to affect the difficulty, I felt it was a feature that affected the entire nature and playstyle of the game. I don't mind playing easy games. I don't mind playing hard games. And I'm not even the biggest fan of strategy RPGs, I've just played enough of them to get a feel for the different approaches that games in the genre can take and see what makes certain ones unique.

I do genuinely wonder if the people who like casual mode are actually people who play many strategy RPGs, and I've wondered this for years. I don't intend to gatekeep based on how familiar with a genre someone is, but if (weird analogy alert) you're a food critic and you're recommended a restaurant by someone who mostly only eats fast food, how seriously are you going to take his recommendation? Maybe that person is recommending you a very good place that you'd love, but more often than not you'd be skeptical because he doesn't have much of a wide variety of experiences and thus not as much perceived credibility.

And skepticism is the main feeling that I have towards the whole situation. I don't outright reject the possibility that newer Fire Emblem games could still be very good with causal mode turned on, but I have my doubts based on my past experiences, and I doubt I could really be convinced the other way unless someone else who had similar experiences to me tried to convince me otherwise.

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Heavyarms55

@JaxonH Hey I think you make some really great points, especially in your first two paragraphs.

I feel like a lot of people treat their own opinions as facts. "like" and "dislike" are subjective things. People don't have to agree on everything to accept each other.

But as to your comments about understanding someone else's opinion, for example do you have any food you dislike? I can't stand fermented beans, I think they taste like a mix between snot and rotten veggies. But there are people who love them. I don't really understand why, but they find that taste appealing. I think it's like that.

As to the whole casual, classic, let characters die thing that we've all been talking about, I think we can probably all agree we have different way we enjoy the game? Let's follow JaxonH's advice and not try and demand others enjoy it the way we do.

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Tsurii

So.. Game's supposedly been leaked and spoilers are everywhere now. I'm out lol

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BruceCM

Thing is, @RedderRugfish ... You always had the option to reset, whether you chose to or not So, now, you can choose hardcore or casual mode; you don't have to play the later way
Unfortunately, I missed out on the Tactics Ogre games but I'm a huge fan of TRPGs

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Heavyarms55

@Tsurii There's always that guy who gets a copy early in Turkmenistan or something, somehow. That guy who steals a copy out of a the box at the local Walmart. That lucky dude who's copy arrives in the mail early.

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Snaplocket

@JaxonH The games do their absolute best to make me feel awful about losing someone, even if I know they'll be just fine for the next battle.

@RedderRugfish I've learned in my experience that when someone tries to be understanding and then does everything they can to make their opinion seem "correct" anyway. All it does is make them appear more arrogant. BTW I've played the Disgaea games and Mario + Rabbids (which are awesome games) and I believe that Fire Emblem with casual mode enabled is a lot more strategic then either of them.

Edited on by Snaplocket

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Tsurii

@Heavyarms55 nah, I'm talking dataminers/roms. They've already ripped a ton of music, sprites and other data and some snowflakes think they have to spoil the game's story itself, too.

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alpacatears

@Tsurii I've noticed these types of things making appearances and actively trying to ignore them too. While I like hearing more about the game, I really only want to hear from people who are respecting the embargo. I'd hate for there to be a ruined plot point or similar.

alpacatears

-Green-

Yeah, I was reading the impressions of character previews on reddit and some people were already spoiling plot points on the game. So I’m officially done with Reddit

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Late

I can admit I play some games a bit weirdly or at least differently from many others. Mostly RPGs as some of you may have noticed if you've ever read how I play Pokémon or Final Fantasy. I'm also an item hoarder.

I wonder what the original reason for adding perma-death was and how they thought people would play the game? They always give more than enough units that you can finish the game even if you play badly unless you're playing on Lunatic or something. I've seen more recent interviews where the developers say that they reset maps too but I still wonder if it was always meant to be that way. I personally feel like death is pretty pointless if you just go and reset anyway. @Heavyarms55 said that my way of playing feels like a self imposed challenge run like Nuzlocke (which I personally don't find fun but that's an another discussion altogether) but I always saw it the other way around. In the end, both are just different playstyles.

Death is part of the game but I feel like it still lacks impact, regardless of how you play the game. The characters have their short speech before dying but the next time they even acknowledge death is at the end of the game. They could do something more exciting with the mechanic. Maybe there could be skills that unlock when a character dies. Someone's sibling dies and they get a skill that gives a attack boost against the type of enemy that killed their sibling.

EDIT: Forgot to mention one thing so I'll just add it here. They still seem to want the players to actually know how it feels to lose a unit since they had that one thing in Fates where one of the character dies unless you know it's coming or happen to have what it takes to prevent that from happening. Keeping it vague so I don't need to bother with spoiler tags.

Edited on by Late

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BougieBeetle

I like how certain story character deaths are handled — for example, Soren in Path of Radiance doesn't die if he falls in battle, he just retires from battle for the rest of the game. I think it'd be easier for me to accept if that was the case for all characters, since part of the issue for me is losing out on story sequences that would feature the dead character.

But I'm definitely still a casual boy. As I mentioned on the last page, it's in your best interest not to do suicide attacks, even with permadeath disabled, given the way most maps and objectives are set up. You want your units alive and taking useful actions. The strategy never goes away.

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-Green-

I kind of like that you can miss out on side plots and other smallish game details depending on whether you lose certain characters or not. The permadeath mechanic in Fire Emblem plays really well into this and into IS constantly wanting to chase after the ‘Your Decisions Really Matter’ tagline. If handled right it just feels very organic and makes you value the characters even more

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Dogorilla

The only FE games I've played are Blazing Blade (FE7 on GBA) and Sacred Stones but I thought I'd give my two cents to this discussion. In those games, I occasionally reset when a character died if the character was a particular favourite, or my only character of a specific class, or if it was due to a stupid mistake on my part near the start of the battle - but most of the time I just carried on. That's partly because having to reset the entire battle would be time-consuming and frustrating, but the main reason is because it makes it feel more like my story. If Little Timmy gets killed halfway through the game, that's not because it's a scripted event, but because of my mistakes, and I like how that makes my experience with the game unique to me.

As for what people have said about RNG/crits, I may be forgetting something but I don't think I ever felt like it wasn't my fault when I lost a character. The game tells you the probability of each individual opponent getting a crit so in my experience I think I was generally able to plan around the possibility of that happening.

Of course I completely understand why people choose to reset or play on casual mode, but to me that would reduce the fun and excitement of the game, so when I eventually get round to playing one of the recent games I'll play on classic mode right off the bat.

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Tsurii

Okay, y'all. Something very different. Kinda.
The VA for Claude is uploading some pretty fun, short clips trying to convince people to pick "his" house and I think you're missing out, if you don't watch them 😅
Think he's got three up so far.

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Dezzy

Lol do they get paid based on house-popularity or something?

Edited on by Dezzy

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