Topic: Unpopular Gaming Opinions

@Snatcher Yup, in that regard it's similar to Megaman games and Metroid Dread. You can feel that a stage and bosses are too strong but you suddenly realize that there's many telegraphed attacks and open moments or that you aren't using properly a certain mechanic. Dark Souls is pretty much a matter of checking your stamina and giving priority to evade and block as well as taking your time with each enemy. Remember Snatcher's fight in a Hat in Time? Most bosses give that sensation of overcoming a good challenge and it's the kind of game in which people usually progress and perform better with each try. Also, you can compensate certain things. For example, if your reflexes aren't the best try a tank build. If you have trouble approaching enemies, use magic and miracles. If a boss is just too hard for you and you want to progress, just invoke someone and do it together.

@roy130390
Have you ever played Megaman Network Transmission?
That game was damn hard for me even on the first level as someone who have never played Megaman games before. I felt pissed off for keep getting Game Over for unable beating the first Boss.
Megaman 11 was way easier when I got unlimited life and some assist from Newcomer Mode but the Stage design and Boss attack pattern still as hard as older Megaman games.
I generally never like hard games just only to show off "Be hardcore or don't even play the games like noob". Not everyone like to feel the pain from playing hard games.

@roy130390 Oh my god it sounds like everything I love about games, I and going to give it a try one day, Just know my friend, you sold me on it!

"Remember Snatcher's fight in a Hat in Time?" Do I remember? I breath that fight, I love that fight so much, A hat in time is up there in my all time favorite games of all time.

And you also reminded me, I need to buy the megaman collections, never played any of them.

@Anti-Matter "I generally never like hard games just only to show off "Be hardcore or don't even play the games like noob". Maybe people just find it fun you know, because I do it because its fun.

While Anti is for sure generalising and I am sure there are plenty who just love a good challenge - myself included for some genres. But he isn't entirely off base. The amount of people complaining about their trophies (?!!?!?!?) with the Sifu difficulty announcement on Twitter bordered on parody. This idea that game completion shouldn't just be "handed out" like this isn't a medium of entertainment and I dunno, some sort of work promotion.

Next time you watch a movie, I am gonna pause it every five minutes for a knowledge check. Don't pass? You're gonna have to watch those five minutes again until you do, buddy. What, you just want to watch to the end? We aren't handing that out here.

Bearing in mind too, they were replying to a Tweet by someone who is legally blind and therefore has time for your Git Gud *****.

Like if you enjoy challenge, that is cool with me. But if your life is so hollow, you need PlayStation trophies to validate yourself and become genuinely terrified that somehow that is taken away by including an easy mode, then game difficulties are the least of your problems.

@Pizzamorg Wait I don't understand, What happend? something with Trophy's? I don't know the whole story.

Nothing happened with trophies just more "you add an easy mode and that takes away my accomplishments somehow".

Read the comments if you want to see what a bunch of crap people the Git Gudders are:

@Anti-Matter Megaman Network Transmission is infamous for being hard even compared to other Megaman games.

Also, just to clarify Anti, of course that not every gamer will enjoy challenging games and there's nothing wrong with that, after all games have one main purpose which is entertainment and what someone finds entertaining varies from person to person. However, game creators are free to do a game the way they want and that includes difficulty. It's definitely valid for them to consider that the concept that they have could be damaged or won't be as faithful to their vision if they don't do it that way. There isn't one game in the world that appeals to everyone and that's great. It's simply a matter of understanding that just as with any other product they have certain audiences and people shouldn't be offended if their preferences aren't considered as they present a conflict with the ones of the people that the game is directed to. People are free to adapt and consume if they really want it so it's not like the product discriminates them as they are free to buy it any time that they want.

@Snatcher Nice! If you have any doubts/trouble with the game, feel free to ask anything mate. The Souls games are some of the best gaming experiences that I ever had, and I really hope that they end up being as appealing and special as they are to me.

Oh and A Hat in Time is my favourite platformer ever! Even above Mario Odyssey which I also really enjoyed. If you do play the Megaman games, personally the Zero/Advent collection is my favourite, but you really can't go wrong with any of the collections. The X games are also fantastic and maybe a better introduction to the franchise. Classic Megaman games are also fun but a bit too hard and limited for me haha.

@roy130390 I know, The fact that I can even compare A hat in time (In my opinion its better then od) is amazing.

I was actually thinking with started with the X collection, but you just confirmed that it was a good start, so I will probably get that at some point too.

Each to their own and all that but if I was to choose a side then I agree with get gud rather than make it accessible for all team.

If you’re just making the experience as easy as possible to the weakest player then the game becomes simply move character from A to B and I will become completely disengaged with it being so hollow, to me it’s more like a baby’s toy where you’re pressing buttons to see some lights and sounds to entertain you. Besides you’re not gonna get better playing it on easy from lack of meaningful practice or never having to be forced to understand how to play.

Speaking of understanding how to play it better. I was actually surprised by all the talk of the trainer battle/2nd final boss at the end Pokemon Legends being so tough. I cleared it on the second try (I would have done it on the first go if it wasn’t for more chancey evasion increases from the final Poke working out for them so well) with a team that was 10ish levels lower than the baddies. So I’ve assumed it’s just folk just trying to power through it rather than knowing how to play it.

At the risk of just throwing myself back into this same, endless, pointless, circular argument which'll probably boil down to people targeting me directly, rather than the argument, I again find myself asking how an easy mode a) spoils a game - are you making the assumption that the game only includes an easy mode? Because I don't think anyone was arguing for that? Hard modes exist for people like you?

And b) making a judgement on how one wishes to engage with entertainment? Because that is all it is at the end of the day, entertainment. If you wanna get some sweaty mastery, then that is what you enjoy, doesn't make sense to me but you do you, boo.

But then if one is to tolerate that, then you must also tolerate that one just wants to "look at the pretty lights" (or however you put it) and not get all sweaty. The idea that both of these things can't exist in all games, despite these things basically existing in every game bar those who choose exclusion, is just weird to me. Like that people even argue against this at all? Especially as games like Sifu which apparently just could not exist if it had an easy mode... is getting one.

So many of these arguments too seem to be built on a core fallacy that difficulty is a flat, catch all, thing - which it isn't. While you may have the aptitude for a certain genre, so an easy mode feels boring to you because it isn't challenging you to engage with the content, someone on an easy mode might still be having a tough time and learning to master the game just as hard as you did on say very hard mode. I don't know many easy modes (if any) that flat out remove mechanics from the game. Likewise, you may be able to best the hardest Dark Souls boss without breaking a sweat due to a natural aptitude for that style of gameplay, but then be absolutely crushed into the floor on say some... strategy game on comparable difficulties. So all this "you don't engage with a game on easy mode" is frankly a load of old bollocks, honestly.

As long as the original experience is preserved for people who want it, I don't see any scenario where objecting against the inclusion of easier difficulty settings is justified, or explained by anything other than a desire to boost one's own ego.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering a less aggravating experience for those who desire it. And, in general, it's best not to foist one's preconceived notions about how a game is best experienced on others unnecessarily. We ARE talking about an entertainment medium here.

Which also isn't to impugn the existence of difficult games, or even to say that I don't deeply understand the appeal of a proper challenge. Several of my favorite games and series (Etrian Odyssey, SMT, Contra, Cuphead, etc.) base some or much of their enjoyment on the concept of mastery, of overcoming overwhelming challenges to the player, and I wouldn't change that for anything. But I'm also not going to cry when the OPTION is given to players to experience it in a less challenging form.

Now, if someone blows through one of those games on some super easy difficulty and then lambasts them for unsatisfying gameplay, I won't bite my tongue as to why I think they feel that way, but, in general, if a series is made more accessible for a wider pool of players, I feel like that's objectively a good thing, again, as long as the original experience is preserved for people who want it.

edit: I will say, though, I do partially sympathize with people annoyed that their previously difficult trophy challenges can now be blown through. One reason I don't care about the trophies for FF7, for example, is because enabling cheats in-game doesn't disable trophy support, so if I beat the game's superbosses the proper way, I'm rewarded the same way as someone who blasts through it with god mode enabled. The trophies mean nothing at that point.

Same reason I didn't bother getting the trophies for NieR Automata. If anyone can just buy the trophies, then there's no point to collecting them.

@Pizzamorg Well I said each to their own, how I find overly easy games are etc. Not everything is an attack. ;p

How easy or hard a game is more than simply putting one hit kills on or off. You need to learn how the game and it's mechanics work to properly play it and alot of the time people are skipping that part and just declaring it as too hard so the solution isn't to simply make it easier as the core game isn't being played correctly which the easy mode is enabling. Think about Space Invaders as an example, you need to learn to shoot where the aliens are gonna be rather than where they are, if you make the game too easy you will never learn that as it's not needed to finish it.

Just to clarify, I am not on the side of those who want a quick way out or don't want to engage with the game etc, I am just here for options.

Most of the games I have conquered on the hardest difficulties are games like Monster Hunter, Looters and ARPGs. Now they often don't have conventional difficulty modes, but instead a combination of player knowledge and skills/gear coalescing in the background to allow you to finally overcome the hardest challenges the game has to offer. This to me is peak satisfaction in gaming, as you've been carefully guided up a staircase to one key moment, your power and skill grown and nurtured together, to a point where you can overcome the final hurdle and feel truly powerful.

This is what I want, rather than just being beaten into the floor until you eventually get lucky or just give up. Providing absolutely no options to you to allow you to progress or make it easier. To allow you to take things at your own pace, learn the ropes before taking on the next challenge.

That is why I am excited for Elden Ring, if I am understanding how the game works correctly, if I run into an enemy who just kicks my ass, I can run away, grind out some monsters for levels/gear and go back and try again until I can beat them. I'm not necessarily just stuck there. That is assuming the enemies in the starting zone aren't like brutally, unbeatably, hard from the get go, then I am ready to at least attempt the challenge and see how I get on.

I don't know how many millions of copies these big games sell, but I know it's a lot more than the number of people in these forums. Most gamers aren't hardcore, all-out for this like those posting here. They just want to enjoy a hobby when they have some free time and don't want to waste their time or money on a frustration that they can't beat. And that is why, for the developers, it is all about money and selling a game to the most people possible. I guarantee that if Dark Souls as a game/series were to be created today, it would have some kind of easy mode in it, and I think Elden Ring being technically a new IP is proof of that (although honestly I know nothing about Elden Ring or it's gameplay, I'm just taking @Pizzamorg's word for this one). But at this point in time the difficulty is what that series is known for even more than the gameplay, so if they were to implement one now they would lose more buyers through hatred for the move than they would gain from new consumers, so they don't do it. It's not at artistic integrity thing. It's a money thing. Always has been, always will be.

@roy130390 of course! It burns me up to have people pick on something that they dont care to understand. I'm not supportive of the "git gud scrub" bs culture, but I think lambasting the game souly (hur hur) because it doesnt have an easy mode is just as myopic. If I could I would help each one of these people to play the games, which is how they're designed to work. I'm pretty sure you would too. Also - ELDEN RING HYPE

@Snatcher It was the ending where I beat the chained up guy. It's been awhile now so I don't remember the lore exactly but I think he's the actual Hollow Knight (or something...).

@Xyphon22 Elden Ring will not have an easy mode. It has been marketed as "fixing" the difficulty problem because it's an open world game, and as such the player isn't gated as much by a difficult area or boss. We'll see how that turns out in practice. I'm sure Pizzamorg will love it 😝

In general I dont think Souls games will ever have difficulty modes unless they are strictly single player. There's PvP and whatnot and another issue with difficulty options for the gameplay is that it might be exploitable and throw that off balance.

And one last thought on the subject - I think games will (and should) eliminate the easy-medium-hard difficulty options and move to an adaptive difficulty model. It's already subtlety integrated into some games now. My biggest issue with having a difficulty choice right at the beginning is that, unless I've played the game before, I have no idea how difficult any of these modes actually are. No one would. It's actually one of the reasons I like Nintendo games - they usually lack conventional difficulty options. When I start a game I know I'm going to be playing it under the exact balance the game designers have tested.

@Link-Hero
I haven’t heard anything bad about arlo that goes deeper than having biased towards games like pikmin. If you don’t mind can you share them? If they are super bad I don’t want to keep supporting him.

@Losermagnet
"I think games will (and should) eliminate the easy-medium-hard difficulty options and move to an adaptive difficulty mode"

Except for Rhythm games like DDR that every songs have their difficulty level on each level.