@WaveBoy Seventh gen almost killed gaming for me. Japanese home console game development almost died out entirely. Survival horror DID die out. Capcom started chasing the almighty American dollar hard and temporarily ruined Resident Evil in the process. That gen introduced the multiplatform blockbuster game development model, which has only made gaming worse. PS3 was too expensive and had hardly any interesting exclusives. 360 was better, but had a terrible controller. Nintendo went all in on a gimmicky remote-shaped controller, and the Pro Controller attachment was wildly inferior to the GameCube controller before it.
Ironically, despite not liking the Wii, it was Super Mario Galaxy that reinvigorated both my love for the medium and my attachment to Nintendo as a developer.
Eighth gen hasn't been perfect, but it's miles better than the dark days of the early HD era.
I'm a bit kinder to 7th gen gaming, but am painfully aware of every issue that came from it, especially as a fan of japanese games.
To be fair, while a lot of the trends were bad, there were some cool, western types of games that got to reach a deserved mainstream success after a long time of being comparably niche, sometimes PC-centric titles, which quite frankly meant I could play a lot more of them. Valve's whole lineup, the Bioshock games, the Elder Scrolls games, Red Faction: Guerilla, the Arkham games, the Mass Effect trilogy, Rockstar's games, Dead Space (aka the best follow up to RE4), Deus Ex. I love all these games, among others. But compared to the previous generation, its so obvious what was sacrificed for it. Between genres and loads of game studios and the relevance of a good chunk of Japanese gaming studios, bad times. Like I didn't even mean to only list games from like 3 genres, that's just how things worked out.
Though I'll largely defend the Wii. I played more than enough games that genuinely used motion controls well and in ways that were even an improvement from normal controls, even if occasionally novelty and interesting ideas overshadowed truly great controls (looking at you, Zack and Wiki). And it could play games normally anyway, so I just found motion controls to be a boringly normal example of "if done well, they're good" and avoided bad games that did them poorly, because they would usually be bad games regardless. I like the Wiimote + Nunchuck for normal games, its weird but I thought it worked quite well. Also, buying old games will never feel as cool as VC did specifically in 2007.
But all that said, the decline of Japanese gaming, the decline of mid tier gaming, the decline of multiple interesting genres, and games with a middle ground between open world and hallway and primary colors and RARE. Awful, hated it.
Honestly, western AAA gaming in enough ways I'd actually argue is so much worse now. Like last year, it felt like it was almost dead, just a greedy corpse that's still moving somehow. It's just that everything else can make up for it now.
I got a lot of kids games from 7th gen consoles (PS3 + Wii + XBOX 360).
I like the casual games from Wii, PS3 and XBOX 360 including PS3 Move and Kinect XBOX 360 games.
@Pizzamorg I'm mostly with you here. What I don't understand personally is following/chatting big streamers, like the chat scrolls so quickly that you have a 1/10000 chance to be noticed. And then what? you try again? You can watch, but why type in the chat?
Meanwhile with small streamers, as you said, it's a closer connection.
Right? They spend like their month's salary for the streamer to notice them for like 2 seconds, then they move on to the other thousands flooding in. How is that enjoyable?
Is that how most people do it ....? The times I watched some streamer, I deliberately chose one with no or a few viewers! I certainly didn't throw any money at them, either
@monkeykong Video and Streaming platforms aren’t nearly as scummy as NFTs though. NFTs are legit harmful to the environment, and are actual scams. Youtube and Twitch are just user generated content platforms, and while some abuse it, it’s no-where as bad as NFTs
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
So, most of the film industry is money driven, @monkeykong .... & most TV shows? I'm not sure why you'd pick on streaming services, in such a general way, as they don't necessarily make the stuff & that's the point at which 'art' would be relevant
@BruceCM yes, everything is money driven. As I made clear, I consume like most people, but my point is that we've lost a considered consistency, a trusted editorial presence, if you want, in video game opinion and reviews through the rise of video and streaming services. It's a race to the bottom.
I do agree with this, it was what I was driving at in my last post in here. You can be a complete jabroni, but people will take what you say as gospel as long as your subscriber count is high enough. It is a disturbing trend. We should listen to informed voices, not the ravings of a kid in their bedroom. But the kid for some reason seems to end up getting the higher reach, despite having the least value in what they are saying.
I hope I don't get ruined for this. Borderlands (Well, the DLC anyway) Is the most clunky shooter I have ever played, I did not enjoy playing it at all, and I thought the gunplay was just awful, please don @ me.
Nintendo are like woman, You love them for whats on the inside, not the outside…you know what I mean! Luzlane best girl!
(My friend code is SW-7322-1645-6323, please ask me before you use it)
Oh, that sort of streaming, @monkeykong .... But then, it's not, say, Twitch's fault if some people treat the 'top' streamers that way. Not sure what solution you'd suggest, either? Also, though, who is 'informed voices'? I do think devs & publishers should listen to the actual audience, being those who do play the games, over some gaming journalist who doesn't necessarily know any more
But then I'm not sure who was the 'trusted editorial presence' before!
Oh, that sort of streaming, @monkeykong .... But then, it's not, say, Twitch's fault if some people treat the 'top' streamers that way. Not sure what solution you'd suggest, either? Also, though, who is 'informed voices'? I do think devs & publishers should listen to the actual audience, being those who do play the games, over some gaming journalist who doesn't necessarily know any more
But then I'm not sure who was the 'trusted editorial presence' before!
I know you didn't tag me, but you referenced something I said:
OK, I think you're both saying much the same, @Pizzamorg ..... &? Who does have 'education' in gaming? Those playing games a lot do have experience, at least! I'm not really disagreeing, just trying to see what could be done to improve things. & point out the highlighted problems aren't exactly caused simply by streaming services, either
Yeah, I just don't think we were really disagreeing, @monkeykong .... I don't watch the popular streamers, when I watch any, which isn't often as I usually prefer to play the games instead
While I look at some reviews on various sites both for games I am thinking of getting or am not decided on, I don't really follow all the journalism for it all, either
OK, I think you're both saying much the same, @Pizzamorg ..... &? Who does have 'education' in gaming? Those playing games a lot do have experience, at least! I'm not really disagreeing, just trying to see what could be done to improve things. & point out the highlighted problems aren't exactly caused simply by streaming services, either
Well, for example, a lot of these voices could at least bother to learn the fundamentals of game design. So many of the "just fix the game" YouTubers who give these outlandish statements about solutions to games problems are either trolling or don't know the single thing about game design at all. And again, you shouldn't have to know anything technical to critique something but just critiquing is one thing. It is when Joe Bloggs is like 'this is the solution' and their cult are like 'yeah we agree', go harass a game dev, the game dev tries to explain this solution is literally impossible and then get boo'd out of the room. It is problematic.
Thankfully people pretending to be experts while being obviously ignorant yet convincing others via just their sheer popularity only affects gaming and absolutely nothing else! :V
Hmm, I miss all that stuff, @Pizzamorg .... I wouldn't usually feel strongly enough about any niggling games issues to really go trying to hassle anyone, though
I don't know much about the technical side, so if the devs say that something is impossible or would take so much work to do, etc, I'd tend to believe them
Hmm, I miss all that stuff, @Pizzamorg .... I wouldn't usually feel strongly enough about any niggling games issues to really go trying to hassle anyone, though
I don't know much about the technical side, so if the devs say that something is impossible or would take so much work to do, etc, I'd tend to believe them
I appreciate you may not come across it, but it does happen, all the time. And it is very much the place my anger comes from. Having a completely uninformed voice being given a large platform is usually disastrous, even if the person isn't intentionally malicious, ignorance can create malice. And so I do think those people do have a degree of duty of care to make sure they aren't speaking out of one side of their arse the whole time, but they rarely do and if they are ever challenged, usually they can hide behind their cult of fans and not have to face any responsibility for the potential harm or damage they cause by waffling some right *****.
Thankfully people pretending to be experts while being obviously ignorant yet convincing others via just their sheer popularity only affects gaming and absolutely nothing else! :V
Yeah, thank God people don't go on Facebook and somehow convince themselves Bill Gates hid a microchip in the vaccine.
Yeah, I didn't disagree with you originally, @Pizzamorg .... More clarifying things & adding some other points!
Along the lines @CactusMan says, that's really a much more general societal & internet thing, sadly That's why it'd be a lot more difficult to address the issues than it might have seemed
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