Topic: The Table Top Gaming thread

@Tyranexx It also didn't help that 4e was suppose to come out with a companion program for PC similar to D&D Beyond or other digital tool sets. Problem was it wasn't ready by launch time and it was needed for 4e however by the time it was ready WotC decided to move on due to the negative feedback of 4e.

4e isn't bad per say, it's just plays more like a tactical video game more then anything. Maybe if they called it Dungeon and Dragons Tactics or something like that it would have gone over better, but people were expecting D&D.

@Tasuki No as it’s not bad, it’s approach to dming was quite nice. But it was too tactical to be dnd as you said and lacked the customization of what made but the game was nice with its supplements. I found the supplements for 4e to be quite nice and tons of cool monsters introduced.

@Themagusx1 It's crazy how some people thought using MMO mechanics for a tabletop game would be a good idea, at least described that way. The irony is that I thought MMOs were all about character customization these days. Though I confess I haven't played one in several years since they're such timesinks. That whole "ritual spells only outside of combat" bit seems pretty weird too.

@Tasuki If the companion program wasn't ready, why not just delay the launch of 4e until the two could release in tandem? I suppose the answer would be the usual reasoning - capitalism - but am admittedly curious lol. It probably could have worked as a tactics game if it was billed as such, but I could see how that would confuse anyone used to previous D&D editions.

@Tyranexx YeH there are a lot of odd elements of 4e, but I will say that they did come out with some, good supplements. In fact I still utilize Dungeonmasters guide 2, cause it has some good advice that’s universal for not just dnd but any tabletop rpg. And some of the lore stuff they did was killer. But again mechanically 4e is strange. Imagine a mage starting with 20 hp, yep that’s 4e. It does have its good.

Are you interested in the history of the game? If so let me reccomend a book called Game Wizards, it’s about the very early history of dnd and follows the creation and strained relationship of its creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson and up until when Gary Gygax was kicked out of TSR(if you did not know what that is that’s the company that published and created dnd material until wizards bought them I wanna say in 97). I don’t know if that’s something you are interested in but I think you would enjoy it, just a little warning the book is a little dry in its writing but it is Intersting none the less.

https://www.amazon.com/Game-Wizards-Dungeons-Dragons-Historie...

@Tyranexx I believe they kept pushing it back the release date, that and they needed to get it out due to the competition from Pathfinder. During the time between 3.5 edition and all the way up to 5e Pathfinder was the #1 selling TTRPG, which D&D was for years before so the suits at Hasbro weren't happy for that.

Also keep in mind that time companion apps wasn't a thing like it is now. At the time smartphones and tablets weren't a common thing even online gaming such as MMOs was in its early stages. Basic the originally idea was to be able to run table top D&D like an online MMO, so not only would you had to have the books and such but also a computer of some sort.

@Themagusx1 I'll probably dig into some of the 4e material for the lore at some point. I enjoy world-building in games, electronic or otherwise, when some care has clearly went into it. Though I doubt I'd ever run a game in that format. XD

Thanks for the recommendation for Game Wizards! That would definitely make for an intriguing read. I'm not too afraid of dry reads; I made it through the early parts of The Fellowship of the Ring without too many problems lol. I'm quite backed up on books for now though, so I've bookmarked the link for future reference.

@Tasuki Ah, I see. So competition played a part too then. Going by the timeline I found on Wikipedia, the time range when that college group I mentioned was looking into Pathfinder would've been a couple of years before 5e launched. Around 2011 or 2012. You also bring up a good point about how uncommon companion apps were at the time. Heck, while smart phones were out in the wild then, I didn't own one until 2013 or so. I could see how some could see the companion app as being more complicated, unnecessary fluff.

@Tyranexx let me know what you think of the fourth edition stuff you find. I am curious to see what you think of it. Would you look into 2nd edition? That is the edition I started on.

As for the book, awesome, yeah I can understand having too much to read, yeah Tolkien can be a little dry. Habe you read any of the dnd novels like the Drizzt books, set in the forgotten realms?

@Themagusx1 Second edition huh? I admit I haven't gotten around to looking into the other editions much yet, though I did ask other members of the group during yesterday's session what editions they've played. One guy started back in 3.5 - he and his brothers have been into D&D for years - and two others have some experience with 4e. I didn't get much more out of them other than 3.5 involves more math lol.

I admit I haven't read any D&D books outside of game supplements, though I've heard of the Drizzt books.

@Tyranexx The drizzt books are pretty good, but yeah it’s interesting to look into second edition. One thing that is interesting about second edition is how they avoided the words devil and demon because of the satanic panic from the 80s. Here this will give you a good idea of dnd in the 80s, even though this report is full of BS.

I am curious what you think.

@Themagusx1 Avoiding certain words seems odd nowadays, but I can understand doing it for the survival of the game at time.

That 60 Minutes segment was... interesting, to say the least. I'd say correlation doesn't equal causation. Even if those kids got too into the game as a form of escapism (and there was some evidence that some of those suicidal teens took it too far), why would that make it worse than anything else used for that purpose? Society likes finding a scapegoat instead of addressing the true issues at hand that may want people want to escape from reality. Those kids honestly needed help. That segment also seemed very heavily edited.

So unfortunately my D&D game didn't happen yesterday so instead we ended up playing Life and Cards Against Humanity. We all ended up having fun too so especially with Cards Against Humanity.

@Tyranexx Yep it was a very heavily edited piece and you are right those kids had deeper issues than dnd and it’s characters, but the tragedy was that dnd became the target of a witch hunt. And that’s what that sixty minute article did, it was part of that witch hunt. We try to scape goat everything. When columbine happened it was the game doom and rock music that was blamed.

So what do you think of history of DND? Pretty interesting huh

@Tasuki cards against humanity is always a good time

@Themagusx1 Yeah Cards Against Humanity is great. It's easy to set up and you thrown in a few drinks and you have yourself a great time.

Yeah but then "society" is often causing the issues or not doing enough to stop obvious problems in the 1st place, @Tyranexx .... So, obviously, it has to have something else to blame instead of admitting any fault
Although part of that is the way it's all set up, where nobody is responsible for society

@Tasuki it’s a great game to relax and you don’t have to think too much. Only did it once with drinking and that was fine. May have to do that again.

I enjoy both Life and Cards Against Humanity. My last non-D&D night featured the latter, as well as a few rounds of Uno. Some of those card combos get...crazy. XD It definitely isn't a game for the easily offended.

@Themagusx1 It's funny; people think we've moved way past the Salem Witch Trials, and yet scenarios not too unlike that time period pop up every now and again. Not just with the superstitious/spiritual either. Colombine is a scenario I've researched quite a bit. In fact, I still need to get a hold of A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy by Susan Klebold and give that a read. Everything from shooters to rock music was blamed when it's clear - unfortunately in hindsight - that those two kids had more issues than just what type of media they were consuming.

@BruceCM Unfortunately it seems easier to focus anger on a single thing, person, or issue vs. dealing with the more complex problems of society. I think in part because many people (if anyone) don't have a true answer to society's ills. Or at least they don't have the means to see them through. I think it's similar logic as to why people tend to blame the current president, prime minister, etc. of their country when something goes wrong.

@Tyranexx I need to read that book, I was not aware she wrote one on now. I remember when Columbine happened I was in high school, and I live in Colorado, so It hit home pretty hard. We felt the effects prettt hard with our schools at least here in Colorado adopting strict policies on dress code and such.

On a light hearted note how do you feel about dnd history?

@Themagusx1 I would've been in first grade when Columbine happened, so I admit it's a significant event that passed me by at the time. The grand prize in that regard unfortunately goes to 9/11. I've read about a lot of the school policy changes that happened in the aftermath...Heck, we still feel them today.

D&D history? It's pretty interesting so far. Nuanced, storied, full of heroes, saviors, villains, and controversy. Almost like an actual campaign. It's almost like roleplaying real life. XD

@Tyranexx I can understand that. 9/11 was the big one though. It was my senior year I’m high school when 9/11 happened, and I even got pulled out of school that day cause of what happened. It was so big that every channel, even channels like HBO broke into the news and such. That day was insane so I won’t forget it.

Oh yeah for sure about dnd history. Wait till you hear about the different campaign worlds they came up with such as Dark Sun, or Spelljammer, or Birthright,…..there was even one and the name escapes me, where you played as dragons. That’s how crazy they got with the campaign worlds. What do you think?

Also mind if I send you a friend request on the switch. My switch name is simply Magus.

@Themagusx1 You're thinking of Councile of Wyrms, which was first published as a box set then later as a hardback book. Fizban's Treasure of Dragons is actually the 5e update for that setting.