Anyone who's ever spent a decent amount of time with video games probably has a small handful of momentous memories etched on their brains. Not just that time you beat a gruelling boss or played Mario Kart with your pals at Paul's birthday party — more pretentious than that. We mean a time when your perception of what was possible in the medium itself was expanded in some way; an instant when you thought Wow... I didn't realise games could do that.
Thinking back, I remember watershed moments playing online with friends in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (the first one) and Left 4 Dead which felt as potent as any team-based activity in the real world, perhaps more so thanks to the bonds formed through digital hardship involving zombies and gunships. Though not the first open-world video game ever, Breath of the Wild will have expanded the horizons of many players poking at its possibility space and discovering its joys for the first time. Everyone will have their own games and experiences that stuck with them for one reason or another, and for me one particularly potent moment from the 64-bit era sticks in my mind — and it was nothing more than a calm vista following a hard night in Hyrule Field.
I remember heading into Ocarina of Time's Lake Hylia for the very first time way back in 1998. The sun was still down and I distinctly recall standing and watching the water as the dark blue sky turned — gradually — to pink and being dumbstruck by the morning mist forming over the lake. It felt like I could inhale lungfuls of that cold wet air just sitting there with an N64 pad in my hands.
It was an all-too-brief moment thanks to Ocarina's speedy day-night cycle, but those 5-10 seconds at the shore of Lake Hylia left a lasting impression on me. It was a real 'games can do this?!?!?' moment, and as the rooster crowed signalling the arrival of day (and the Hyrule Field theme), my young mind had been expanded with the sheer possibilities of a growing medium, one that could capture so beautifully such a natural, ephemeral moment.
those 5-10 seconds at the shore of Lake Hylia left a lasting impression on me. It was a real 'games can do this?!?!?' moment
When I played the remarkable 3DS Ocarina remake, I sought to recreate that moment. Grezzo did a fantastic job touching up the aged classic, improving the visuals and frame rate to better match your mind's eye version of the game (rather than the 50Hz reality we Europeans experienced with the PAL cartridge first time). That morning mist that burns off with the sunrise, though? Nope, that wasn't there in the remake. It's something we've seen before in otherwise excellent high(er)-res remasters, the Shadow of the Colossus PS4 remake being a good (and appropriately mist-less) example.
The recent arrival of the game on Nintendo Switch Online prompted me not only to play it at 60Hz for the very first time, but also race through the Deku Tree dungeon and leg it over to Lake Hylia to see how the mist looked on Switch OLED. Absolutely spectacular, surely?
In fact, after seeing how the N64 emulation on Switch apparently cleared up much of the N64's famous 'fog' — most notably in the Water Temple — I braced myself for disappointment. Yes, unfortunately the mist that's so ingrained on my brain had been cleared, too. The game looks more vibrant and plays better than ever, but for veterans of the original game, I totally understand the pang of disappointment when the naked polygons of Lake Hylia or, say, Kokiri Forest feel a little less magical sans the enchanting fairy dust that used to linger in the air.
It's not the end of the world — the game is still fantastic, and the convenience of playing on Switch is not to be dismissed — but it does underline that many games are inextricably tied to the original hardware they were designed for, especially titles from this formative era of 3D gaming. I've always believed in playing games with the controller they were built around (which goes double for the Nintendo 64's idiosyncratic pad, of course), but the programmers and artists who assembled Hyrule and other 64-bit worlds not only designed around restrictions, but incorporated those restrictions into the art.
the 'fog' in Ocarina was never a necessary evil to save the system's groaning chipset... it was a vital and intended element, part of the atmosphere
Don't get me wrong, there are a great many games that could stand to benefit from losing the draw-distance fog that plagued them back in the day (I'd be intrigued to see what Turok would look like running on this Switch emulator), but the 'fog' in Ocarina was never a necessary evil to save the system's groaning chipset. Here, it was a vital and intended element, part of the atmosphere — dancing fairy dust and detritus, sand whipped up in a storm, or my treasured morning mist.
I started writing this article before firing up my trusty N64 to grab a screenshot and it occurred to me that perhaps — just perhaps — my young mind had blown the effect all out of proportion. Maybe it was a minor thing, or I had something in my eye that day. What if I warp to Lake Hylia on the original save on my original cartridge and find that the fog simply isn't there?
It was a tense few minutes as I waited for the sun, but thankfully my memory was bang on. There it was, hanging there over the water so perfectly you can almost smell the dew on the crisp morning...
In many ways, the game looks dreadful in comparison to the sharp visuals of the Switch version. Upscaling and converting the N64's analogue signal for my paper-thin TV produces an unsightly mess of grain and blur that is best viewed from across the room; make that six-foot journey, though, and the overall effect onscreen is a very pleasing one. We often joke in the Nintendo Life office about super sharp pixels versus the softer images many of us viewed through composite cables back in the day. We josh each other over which one is most 'authentic', and it always comes down to personal preference. In this case, despite the clear improvements in resolution, my heart goes with the grainy original image. The Switch version looks incredibly clean, but also vacuums out the atmosphere.
Regardless of your thoughts on the above images, revisiting Ocarina of Time on original hardware and seeing the difference in presentation underlined the fact for me that there will always be a place for thoroughly impractical and inconvenient retro set-ups involving CRTs, upscalers and original consoles, and other marginally more convenient solutions like the Super 64 that help that hardware function a little more easily with modern displays.
Much of the reaction to the NSO N64 emulation has felt way too vitriolic, and I'm certainly not looking to stoke negativity around a service which, on the whole, I feel does a pretty decent job of delivering 64-bit games on Switch. I wouldn't mind a couple of simple CRT filter options. Not being able to easily remap buttons is irritating as it gives the impression that NSO N64 controller is more-or-less mandatory, which isn't the case. I've got one in the post, because it's the best pad ever made, but I was playing quite happily with a Pro Controller.
Despite finding the online outcry a tad exasperating, I can totally sympathise with disappointment when the emulation solution Nintendo has gone with here, while convenient, compromises the intent of the artists that created these games and, specifically, this world. The version of Hyrule in Ocarina of Time is a precious place to millions of people, a semi-sacred space where lifelong memories were made, and one that should be preserved as it was conceived. Something that, ironically, is only really possible with a digital world.
The exact moment I once experienced over Christmas 1998 is one I've written about before and surely will again, and obviously one that is forever gone. I might not be able to recapture the feeling over two decades on, but at the very least I'd like to see that chilly digital mist again. And if I could do it on my Switch, that'd be just grand.
Comments 101
yeah... i'd like the option to remap. having two camera buttons on the face buttons feels weird. We are being a tad bit too hateful, though.
If they want people to buy NSO Expansion Pak, at least have good emulation and not this steaming pile of crap
I just want to be able to "own" the games like with VC instead of this subscription nonsense. What I'd love most is if they'd just release a physical collection with them on a cart that I can treasure for years to come. I can dream, I guess.
For now I'll just treasure the memories I have of these games instead. I'm not interested in anything currently available anyway.
I was interested enough to post that I'm not interested. Thanks Nintendo for uninteresting me.
I'd like to point out the fact that the shortcomings of the emulator of the NSO N64 made the author of the article question his own memories of what the game actually looked like.
Take a second to think about the implications of that and maybe you will understand the vitriol.
Much of the reaction to the NSO N64 emulation has felt way too vitriolic, and I'm certainly not looking to stoke negativity around a service which, on the whole, I feel does a pretty decent job of delivering 64-bit games on Switch
Yet you write and publish yet another article with a negative headline and a negative attitude.
sigh.
so far I’ve only played N64 games in handheld and I’m still trying to get used to the controls. to access the C buttons, I’m using the right JOY-CON joystick
personally I like the visuals but it does take away original look for better or worse depending on preference
I totally relate to this article. I'm a sucker for small details being omitted. But again, it typifies Nintendo's approach at creating their games around their hardware. Whereas some developers made fog simply look like a thin veil to mask draw distance, Nintendo managed to work with it to create an ambience. And I suppose that subtlety gets lost when a game gets put on different hardware. Lost in emulation, I guess.
Every time they add new games, its going to be met with thumbs down on youtube and endless "When are you going to fix the service?!?" comments. This won't just go away.
I think they do need to acknowledge this, promise to try and fix it as best they can, and maybe give the early adapters something as way of an apology.
If only there was an option for anyone with a PC or good smartphone. Something that could, oh I don't know, "recreate" the N64 experience 🤔
@Zag_Man You make an interesting point about Microsoft and it makes me think about how they've remastered/remade the Halo games recently.
The way I see it, Microsoft allows itself to spend that sort of money because they're still in need of creating themselves a legacy, having joined the business 20-ish years after Nintendo, and therefore their IP doesn't survive on as much nostalgia as Nintendo's IP does. So if they rerelease a lack-luster version of one of their games it really tarnishes the value and public opinion on that franchise in the long run. Instead of people reacting like this when they try Halo 1 for the first time in 2021: "Man, this old game looks horrible and is glitchy. How could people play this game?", they might think "Halo 1 is old but it is still enjoyable.".
As a comparison, would the legacy of TLOZ be hurt by a not-optimal rerelease of Ocarina of Time on the Switch? Probably not. However, maybe it does hurt OOT a bit, but at least there was OOT 3D recently that gave a great experience to a newer and younger audience.
I don’t think there’s anything Nintendo could do with their legacy games that would satisfy “the internet” at this point. People complained about the Wii Virtual Console, they complained about the Wii U Virtual Console, they complain about NSO. Heck, I’m convinced if Nintendo just gave away every pre-Switch game they own for free, the internet would find a way to complain.
So far I’ve only used NSO Expansion in docked mode.
Zelda OOT : 111 min
Mario 64 : 26 min
Yoshi’s Story : 12 min
Winback : 10 min
Shining Force : 90 min
Streets Of Rage 2 : 55 min
Castlevania: 23 min
Golden Axe : 23 min
Shinobi: 18 min
I grew up with almost all of these. The only problems I’ve had have been with Winback. The button map is beyond weird for this titled and the in game save is tied to a non existent memory pack that Nintendo didn’t emulate.
Surprising that the premium service is worse than free emulation.
@LunarFlame17 Yeah, just like how the internet complained about the poor emulation of the SNES Mini... No wait, did they?
Typical Nintendo.
Nothing to see here.
Here's a thought. Put an FPGA board in the next Switch and Nintendo can develop their own cores to make the systems run as accurately as possible. Analogue is showing that it can be done portably (we hope, at least).
That said, perfect accuracy is not what bothers me, although adding options like increased/reduced fog, lower/higher frame rates would always be nice. As other people have said, and I'll continue to reiterate, I just want the option to buy these games and play them as long as my Switch runs. By all means, keep the subscription model for those who want it, but offer the additional option of purchasing - you will get more of my money that way, trust me. Until then, I feel like I'm paying $250 for a five year rental. It may just be psychological, but it makes me feel like I can't/shouldn't dedicate much time to the games.
@LunarFlame17 For the record, I never complained about Virtual Console. I thought it was an awesome service, and when people (this site included, sorry editors!) kept saying "Netflix of games! Netflix of games! Where's our Netflix of games! Everyone wants a Netflix of games!" I felt alone in my terrified screams of "No!"
@Bomberman64 Maybe people didn’t complain about the emulation of the SNES mini specifically, but I definitely saw plenty of complaints about it in general.
@BoilerBroJoe I loved it too! I never understood why people complained about it. But I love NSO too. I guess I’m just easy to please.
@Bomberman64 Are you comparing SNES emulation to N64 emulation?
@LunarFlame17 I’m enjoying it
Would people be willing to make arrangements to go to Nintendo's HQ in Washington and bang on their door to improve the service? As well as to voice other general grievances? It would be ironic if they were too lazy to actually go and protest.
@sword_9mm Typical negative comment with nothing to add to the conversation.
Nothing to see here.
@sword_9mm as much as nintendo should have done more qa its not just there fault. The emulator obviously was properly made so no reason to just act like it's greedy nintendo not more technical things. Nintendo will probably fix theses things to have a better experience.besides there are very hard to truly emulate
you'd think for a company trying to make free emulation as unappealing as possible, their paid equivalent wouldnt have drawbacks like this
I don’t understand, is the fog hard to emulate so they don’t do it or is it that nintendo thinks it makes the game look bad so they remove it on purpose?
I would imagine in a years time the whole experience will be better and a better value. But it does prove a point about the risk we all take with day one purchases. I’m happy to hold back with this, and will use the same mindset going forward.
It's bad emulation that you can get elsewhere, done better, for free.
@LunarFlame17 Exactly. People don't just complain about the emulation because they enjoy doing that. If they did, then as I said, they would have done so with the SNES mini's emulation too, which was a great little device with good emulation and content for its price.
Also these complaints aren't about telling people not to enjoy these games and spend their money on it. I'm okay with others spending their money however they want. I'm just explaining why I'm not going to spend money on it. Sure, some (very loud) people do actually try to tell you what to do, but they aren't worth listening to.
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@faint I'm comparing attention to detail vs. the N64 NSO. The SNES mini emulation was great, while the Wii U's SNES emulation was not so. The NES mini had issues with its emulation, and they were rightfully complained about.
Of course, anyone in their right mind knows that N64 is more taxing to emulate than the SNES, but to say this justifies not striving for more than what has been delivered with NSO at this price, is not right. The Switch does a fine job at Saturn emulation, for example, and the Saturn emulator is based on the work of someone who did not have access to the same documentation Nintendo has for the N64, and decades ago at that.
It’s only serviceable if you’re blind. No way should ANYONE pay 50$ for this, you are much better off with emulation either via past VC releases or emulators on PCs/laptops
@dartmonkey Actualt the first one was called Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. Call of Duty Modern Warfare is the one that came out 2 years ago.
I understand, but so far I have been having a blast every night with the N64 collection. I just made a custom controller layout in the settings names N64. Flipped R and R2, moved moved B to Y, A to B, Y to X, and X to A. It perfectly emulates the traditional layout of the four main buttons on the N64; B, A, LeftC, and DownC and makes the Z buttons the main triggers. Can still use the Right stick for C buttons as well. Also, it works great for all of the Genesis games as X is a, Y is B, and B is C.
I just feel like the 'service' would be overpriced even if everything actually worked, so Nintendo pretty much gets what they get here.
The games look and work fine for me, however I will agree that the lack of fog does eliminate the atmosphere.
Other than that I've been having a blast with Oot so far. This coming from someone that grew up with these N64 games and even bought the 3DS remasters.
"Serviceable" is what you call a free homebrew emulator. For $50/year, this is unacceptable.
I dunno. I never felt like I was being treated to special effects whenever I saw fog in an N64 game. Complaining about it being gone now definitely seems like a rose tinted re-telling of history.
Nintendo didn't promise "Remastered" versions of N64 games. (I got that with Ocarina on 3DS years ago). And new and improved versions won't be what I'm expecting when I log on to play them either. Having access to games I've either haven't played before or haven't played for decades will be enough of a joy for me.
You are fully welcome to complain about minor details if that makes you happy, of course
@Bomberman64 Ok, if emulating completely different devices is the same, I look forward too a complete Sega Saturn emulator that works flawlessly in the near future.
Playing Ocarina of Time the other day was a spiritual experience for me. It's such a great game. But the lack of fog is definitely an issue. It's part of the original game's atmosphere, vibe, and meaning. And while it being missing doesn't destroy the ambience entirely, it does hurt it. I don't think it's nitpicking to complain: videogames are an audiovisual art, after all, and Ocarina of Time (and Majora's Mask, by extension) has a uniquely gloomy, often dark tone that Zelda hasn't really gone back to. (Partly because this distinctive look is a result of the N64's technical limitations. But that's where the art lies.) Asking for that to be preserved seems more than reasonable to me. We wouldn't even be having this debate if we were talking about a more mature artform.
Why do people keep saying there’s no button mapping?
I understand what you mean, not with those examples because my childhood was with a different era of consoles, but some of the little things being tweaked can sour the experience just a smidge.
@Bomberman64 There's absolutely nothing wrong with the NES Mini's emulation.
@faint I could have sworn Sega was considering a Saturn Classic.
@norwichred I was wondering that too. I am sure that it flashed up how to change it to me at one point.
I would be fine with less than perfect if it wasn’t so expensive
Sone of the outcry in general has been daft, for example not being able to use the designed for Switch N64 pad on other systems, but..... I think the issue here is that given the cost, Nintendo doing "a pretty decent job of delivering 64-bit games on the Switch" isn't really enough. Given it's their games on their console, it needs to be spot on.
Be interesting to see if they do ever give us button remapping. That seems reasonable too.
I really don't think I'll be okay without the mist... I'd purposely go to different areas at times of days just to enjoy the scenery.
I was all in when Nintendo announced it, but pricing, issues, cosmetics... Might see if Nintendo respond to the negative responses before getting expansion. All over OOT.
@Mana_Knight yes it does on a white bar at the bottom of the screen.
Sick of the negativity tbh. I'll just say I'm having a great time with my subscription, and I'm so glad that NERD vastly improved upon the Wii U N64 VC emulator, because the games were so dull and dark. Now, they're bright, vibrant, and look lovely on my OLED Model.
Have fun complaining everyone. Have fun jumping on the bandwagon for clicks, NL.
@Bomberman64 These issues were present in the Wii Virtual Console and Wii U Virtual Console releases as well. I can't recall, but wouldn't be surprised if my gamecube copies of Ocarina of Time (OT+Master Quest; Collector's Edition) had the same mist removal in the translation from N64 to NGC.
This is literally a result of rom carry-over from what Nintendo has on hand. In some cases, it's been proven that their VC roms came from sources that had illegally and slightly modded the roms.
If you want a fixed rom, you'd need to re-rip the game from N64 and work out the kinks in the porting. Nintendo's not going to spend that time and energy when they already have a nice ROM available from their VC days. This is a literal ROM dump. The multiplayer games they had to do some tweaking to allow online functionality, and that's a big change from VC titles (other than Pokémon), but they're only tweaking those because it's literally through NSO. A single player experience is as easy as dumping the rom from the previous $9.99 VC releases.
If you REALLY want Ocarina of Time to recapture the magic of the N64, play it on N64 or lobby Nintendo to do an upscaled port of the 3DS version with the mist and muted colours added back in. Personally, I think the 3DS version is currently the only acceptable way for me to play Ocarina of Time - it's a near perfect replacement for the N64 version - but I would definitely quibble over the bright colours and lack of "fog of war" effects that the game seemed to make use of in a more realistically environmental sense than say something like Morrowind does unrealistically purely to keep the game running at the proper framerate.
Removed - unconstructive
The footage I saw of Mario Kart 64 multiplayer was pathetic. Definitely not serviceable.
Maybe next time Nintendo plans to more than double the price of an already lackluster online service they'll actually put some modicum of effort into the quality their consumers get for "upgrading". Then again, why would they when so many of those consumers shout, "Take my money" before it even goes online? And guess what? Now that they have your money, there are no take-backs over buyer's remorse.
"There's a sucker born every minute." — P.T. Barnum
@Yorumi Yes! Someone after my own heart. CRT with original hardware and original cartridge will always be the Rolls-Royce experience no question. Also there's something about using an original cart that's unique and so satisfying & gives proper occasion to the game session. RGB on a nice low use 90's consumer or pro Trinitron is heaven.
@spurryitboi
Yes yes, please email nintendo lol.
I would totay upgrade if they did that, but this i wont even touch.
It's not hard to see why things happened this way with the NSO Expansion Pass. If large quantities of people are willing to pay for what is clearly a lazy, bare bones service, Nintendo won't have any incentive to fix it. That's how incentives work. If you want to blame anyone, blame the casual sheep who eat up anything that Nintendo craps out.
@justin233 why not both, have a VC and if you buy online sub you can play all the games you don't care for as well
@marandahir That's an interesting point. I wasn't aware that these discrepancies were due to Nintendo's OOT ROM. Does this mean that if you were to substitute the ROM they've included with a proper one, you'd get all the stuff back? I imagine people have already tried this in that case.
As for OOT 3D, I agree with you on that one. I might go back to a properly emulated or real hardware running N64 OOT just for the nostalgia, but if I want to introduce someone to the game for the first time then OOT 3D is my way to go.
As you said it would be nice if they added back the fog and possibly the colors, especially since you'd be experiencing them on a better screen than the 3DS, which I can understand them wanting to go for brighter colors on that screen really, sort of like the first GBA.
I'm also concerned that, since these are basically "Cloud" games, you won't be able to transfer them to the Switch successor (whatever it is called). You don't actually own the games at all, and they can disappear at any time.
@Bomberman64 I thought it was a design choice, to try to make Hyrule feel brighter and cheerier especially for Young Link's time period, to contrast with the darkness. We had had proper backlighting for years by that point - DSi had much better lighting than the original DS, for example.
I do think you could be onto something about the 3D pop and small 240p resolution though.
As for the fog, yeah, I think that's something that was in the original game versions on N64 as a cheat to keep polygons and textures from popping in from a distance. But I also think the designers designed around that to give us a very solemn version of Hyrule that didn't get properly translated when they went more cheery in the 3DS version. I think the first thing Nintendo did when they were emulating the game onto non-CRTs was to remove the fog that played alongside with the CRT fuzziness to create that effect, seeking a crisper looking visual. They've done to for decades now with the emulation.
On the SNES and NES NSO apps, you can change to a pseudo-CRT filter. I wonder how much it would alleviate the issues if they allowed that filter to be available for N64 NSO? I know it wouldn't add the fog back in.
I do remember the game looking a lot crisper on GameCube, but I also still had a CRT back then, so I can't be sure if they removed the fog when they emulated it for GameCube or if they first removed that fog in the Wii virtual console release. It's something that was removed from a number of other N64 games, though.
@Yorumi Nice, on the same tip also - such a satisfying way to play.
@Gwynbleidd in the same way you think @Gavintendo is immature for complaining about opinions they don't agree with and others agreeing with that opinion, you are also immature for telling @Gavintendo to "Grow Up" because their opinions do not align with your own.
If you decided to pay the upgraded cost of NSO and you don't think the improvements are worth the cost in your experience, just cancel it or downgrade. The best way to deliver your message to companies is through your wallet, not by provoking others who have no power over what the company does.
@LunarFlame17 I’m glad for your post because I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when people clamor for a VC after seeing all the online hate for the “stupid” and “slow” and “never updated” VC for Wii.
Then all these people who say “vote with your dollar and don’t subscribe” like Nintendo’s bean counters are reading comment sections figuring out how to make and extra $10k.
Nintendo have a track record of omitting basic features and getting a free ride for it:
Lack of voice chat
Lack of party making
Barely updated NES and SNES rosters
Basic online lobby systems
Restrictions on how they will allow you to play online.
I don't hold out hope for this being addressed as they make enough money to warrant their laziness.
The Genesis emulation is the only good emulator to launch with this Expansion Pak. Change my mind.
@Gwynbleidd
Have you never seen an argument about graphics or performance being sub-par while others don't see it that way? This is a common argument with Switch ports especially, one side says the game is "unplayable" due to choppy graphics or performance while the other side says it's perfectly enjoyable.
The same goes with the N64 emulation. One experience sees it as a magical way to revisit old titles on the newest Nintendo console. Another experience sees it as a lazy cash-grab, and compared to other free emulators that have existed for years, it's sub-par and definitely not worth the cost. Both are valid experiences, but there is no "right" or "wrong" here, just opinions.
Saying "We're talking about your money, dammit, show some care for your own interests" when someone disagrees with you about an optional video game service is taking it a bit too far in my opinion.
As MiyamotoHimself, I also prefer to see my fabourite actress with mosaic.
@Gwynbleidd are you suggesting the comments section is for complaints only?
If I was enjoying a game and I saw loads of others dumping on it, I too would want to provide an alternate opinion. I would want to let others know it has the capacity to be enjoyable, at least to me. I hope you would feel this way also.
I read their comment, all they said was they were tired of the negativity because it doesn't actually accomplish anything, and in their opinion, NL is milking NSO+ topics because they know it will get more clicks. I may not agree with all of that, but it is certainly a valid opinion I can understand.
@Gwynbleidd I am going to paste the one comment made by @Gavintendo because you seem to be "creatively" filling in blanks to serve your view.
Here, read it again:
"Sick of the negativity tbh. I'll just say I'm having a great time with my subscription, and I'm so glad that NERD vastly improved upon the Wii U N64 VC emulator, because the games were so dull and dark. Now, they're bright, vibrant, and look lovely on my OLED Model.
Have fun complaining everyone. Have fun jumping on the bandwagon for clicks, NL."
Where in that comment did they call you or others a "whiner" or "crybaby?"
Where in that comment did they indicate NL is "telling lies?"
Interesting how your absorbed perspective can warp what actually happened, isn't it?
If you truly believe the things you said about others being free to voice their opinions without suppression, you can appreciate the irony of you calling out and insulting one commenter for sharing their totally valid opinions just because they don't align with your own.
@Gwynbleidd yes you got me, I was appointed by @Gavintendo to defend their honor.
Except I don't need to point out that your arguments are poorly crafted, flawed, and overly aggressive, you do a better job of proving that all on your own.
I can't pretend you didn't fabricate things no one actually said. You mentioned being called a "whiner" and "crybaby" for complaining, but neither of us said that. If someone else in here called you that, I have no idea why you would mention it to me. You brought up the suggestion myself and @Gavintendo are calling NL liars for reporting "facts", but again, no one said they are lying, all the original comment suggested was it was playing into the bandwagon and drumming up clicks, which is a totally valid OPINION.
I have to ask, do you know what a Nintendo Life "Soapbox" article is?
Edit: Oh yeah, here is where you made the baseless accusations. Your words, not mine:
@Gwynbleidd: But I'm not fine at all with you saying that others are negative or whiners or crybabies etc. Others are the way they want to be, and that's none of your business. If you cross that limit, then I do the same with you, but I do it for real.
@Gwynbleidd: NL might milk all they like (and God knows if they DO), but they aren't telling lies when they report that loads of people are complaining. In fact, they never lie at all, in the worst case they might report very opinable thoughts. So criticizing them for reporting facts is... a bit fascist?
And just like the cases with fans wishing Luigi's Mansion 3 would get inverted controls, Switch to get modern features such an achievement system or even basic ones such as a messaging system, and the pricing of Wii U ports to be cheaper for those who got them on Wii U, Nintendo will never update this service. You'll be paying $50 a year for the worst possible way to experience 64 games, and the problems will never be addressed because people will buy it no matter what, and Nintendo cares only about money and not about what the fans want.
I encourage anyone who has bought these games in the past to emulate them. It's sad when my son's $40 Kindle can play OoT better than the device owned by the company that developed it.
tosses Gavin my 3ds
It'll be all right man. 😁
I feel terrible for anyone who A-Plunked down for this while being so overpriced and B-Were so disappointed at not getting the pure dopamine hit of nostalgia you deserved, especially after paying so much.
@InkIdols Those face buttons are brake and boost in StarFox, and I'm beginning to think they did the controls for that game first, then... I dunno, thought they'd work for all of them? Re-mapping is an update I wish we get because playing a song with 'A', and accidentally playing another '>' is annoying, and the right analogue stick just doesn't to the old C buttons justice.
@Shiiva I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I'll be honest: They probably won't ever fix it, especially if a lot of people choose to get the service. When Luigi's Mansion 3 released, there was (absurdly) no option to invert the stick, which left the community to hope for an update for a basic feature that should be in any modern game. It never came, because the game still sold like hotcakes. I suspect the same thing will occur for Nintendo's 64 games. They will never update them because Nintendo only cares about money now. They aren't the same company they were when Iwata was in. That's not an opinion; It's a fact. An example is the pricing of ports (not remakes, ports). All of the GameCube ports to Wii were half-price, but the Wii U ports to Switch are full. Just an example.
I'm starting to get really tired of all the expanded NSO bad articles. 🙄
@Zag_Man
The comment is weird to me. The Switch is quite a bit more powerful than the Wii U and the Wii U had better N64 emulation with most of these games.
Nintendo also had it's most profitable year ever in 2020 making $5.9 billion US dollars. They also charged way more than expected for these game add-ons as the highest option in the Nintendolife survey was $20 additional, not the $30 it ended up being.
Nintendo didn't have to make these games if they didn't have the resources to make them right. But they gave it minimal effort and asked more than expected. That's indefensible.
@BoilerBroJoe
Kevtris (the brains behind Analogue) has said current FPGAs are not powerful enough to replicate the N64. The FPGA would add a significant cost and Nintendo doesn't currently have the expertise to create FPGA cores. Not that couldn't but they'd probably be best outsourcing to someone who has been doing it.
@Shiiva
I'm pretty sure you can remap the controls. You have to do it in the main app before you launch a game. Once you launch a game you won't be able to change. I think somebody said you have to do it everytime the app is launched as it doesn't save your settings. But I can't confirm because I didn't buy the expansion.
@MsMaestroon - Agreed, especially since the 'problems' seems relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.
@marandahir - "These issues were present in the Wii Virtual Console and Wii U Virtual Console releases as well."
Were they? Then why are we making a fuss about it now?
@cleveland124 No you can't remap them.
I'd rather have GBA games than N64, it's also easier to emulate.
@norwichred Because there's not? There are no options within the NSO app to change the button mapping, only to check what the mapping is (and there are slight variations between games — in Sin & Punishment, both sticks are the stick and both ZL and ZR are Z (which is weird because ZR is also still the modifier to access the C buttons), and when playing Dr. Mario 64 with a single joycon, the stick is the D-pad instead of the stick).
You can remap buttons at the system level, but that's still subject to the limitations of the NSO app (and also the limitations of the games, if the game itself allows remapping) — C-right and C-up are only accessible on the right stick or by holding ZR, and you can't map a stick direction or a combination of buttons to a button.
Since you can't remap within the NSO app, the only way to use the item assigned to C-right in OoT is by flicking the right stick (which is an awkward way to use an item) or by holding ZR (which means you lose the A and B buttons). In the Gamecube version, your three items were mapped to X, Y, and Z (which would be R here), which would work great, but there's no way to do that here.
@marandahir The problem isn't with the rom, it's the emulation. And while N64 emulation is extremely difficult and there's really never been any actual good general-purpose N64 emulators from anyone, Nintendo has gotten it better than this before — the Wii U VC version of OoT had better fog effects, and the Wii U VC version of Yoshi's Story properly emulated the timing of the pulsing fruit frame at the ends of levels. And for the premium we're paying, and the fact that they're launching with only nine games (eight in Japan, because for some reason they don't get Dr. Mario 64 even though there's already a fully translated rom of it in Nintendo Puzzle Collection from 2003) as the console is nearing its fifth anniversary, i would expect them to be better polished than this.
@marandahir No, the fog and mists works as it should on GameCube and Wii. Here for instance is an example of the well publicized Water Temple issue on the Switch, looking correct on the Wii Virtual Console version.
https://youtu.be/2YVgPx9b1pA?t=1653
I never got around to playing through my upgraded Wii U copy and don't know if that one has similar problems, but this issue on Switch strikes me as a well meaning mistake by Nintendo at the emulator level to address the N64's well know reliance on heavy fog to limit draw distance.
Perhaps it will benefit games that used it as a crutch, but Ocarina of Time used the effect for atmospheric reasons so it's obviously harmed by the move on Switch.
It’s us that’s jumped the shark not Nintendo when we start mourning the lack of fog in N64 games.
@Abighoul but when you start up the games you get a big white bar saying how to remap buttons (it said pause the games, go somewhere in options and press “X” to remap buttons). I’m not imagining it, someone else saw it too. Are they lying?
I'm surprised nobody brought up the fact that Turok, while not emulated, is remastered on the eshop with fog that got pushed so far back you can see unintended things, like caves floating in the sky, or whole other sections of the map that are disconnected from where you currently are.
@Zag_Man
Nobody said emulation was easy. Just that it's dissapointing that this is Nintendo's 3rd round implementing N64 emulation (Wii, Wii U, Switch) with each round having more powerful hardware and Nintendo having more profits than ever so it wasn't unreasonable to expect improvement in this area.
"But in the end, you don't like what's on offer, vote with your wallet because the complaining on here is out of hand and Nintendo never listens anyway."
Of course not, the purpose of a message board is good faith dialogue with the opinions of members. This should have gone without saying, but since you did say it I'll add the part you left out. Nintendo spends millions on PR each year. They don't need you to defend them and luckily they won't decide to release even buggier software because you are spending your free time defending them.
This wasn't a clickbait article. The title made it pretty clear this individual bought the N64 online expansion expecting better. If you don't want to read negative opinions when the title is negative I'd suggest you'd avoid these articles and probably the forum posts in general because sometimes people have negative opinions of services that cost money. The internet is not a safe space where you get to decide what people can discuss.
@Zag_Man
I didn't tell you not to express your opinion or dig at you for your opinion. There are obviously some people happy with the service and that's great. My response was to your comment that "the complaining on here is out of hand" and telling me to vote with my wallet instead of with words. You are certainly entitled to that opinion but you don't control the comments section and can't tell me what to say or not say.
"But I generally don't complain because I get the business model and I have no obligation to click."
But you did click and made multiple comments complaining about users who responded.
"I don't blindly defend Nintendo I have been very critical of them at times but in all honesty it is tiresome and I'd rather enjoy gaming."
Great, go game if you are tired of this website. I often take long periods of not looking at this website and spend it gaming instead. If you don't take breaks for games what is the point of hanging out on a Nintendo focused website. Spend your time doing what you want instead of something you find frustrating.
@BloodNinja why is it really much of s surprise? 😂😁😂
@Zag_Man
The safe space comment was specifically a reply on you telling me what to do. This wasn't an attack on you as much as me sticking up for my right to my opinion.
You said you were tired of the complaining and just wanted to play some games. I said specifically if you want to play games then play games. It wasn't an order or me telling you what to do. If it wasn't clear before, then do what you want to do. If you want to keep complaining about the negativity on Nintendolife then keep complaining. And no, that isn't me telling you what to do.
I don't think it was a clickbait article because I think the comment section was entirely predictable based on the title of the article. That said have a good one and I hope you find your positivity yet today.
It's "serviceable" in that it's hot garbage and would be even if this new tier of NSO was free.
anyone else notice that the right stick acts as the C buttons in Mario 64 but they don't do anything in Sin and Punishment...I mainly picked up this service to play a legit English version of S&P only to find that the controls are horrendous on anything but a 64 controller
@LunarFlame17
That’s because “the internet” isn’t a sentient thing that can be satisfied. It’s thousands of different people with different expectations and opinions.
@cleveland124 Not sure if I want to be *that" guy, but this is the 4th time since they did emulate OOT on GameCube too.
@norwichred it's "press X on the menu to check button mapping" — to see what Nintendo has mapped the buttons to. You don't get any say in what they've mapped them to.
@drewber2635 Sin & Punishment maps both the left and right Switch sticks to the N64 stick so that you can approximate the Left Position (left hand on N64 D-pad and L, right hand on N64 stick and Z) if you want. Works pretty well with the in-game default control scheme, but yeah not giving us any option to change that is just utter nutter butters.
I have been reading all the news and comments about this over the last few days and if I was Nintendo I just wouldn't bother listening to any of the complaining. When the next lot of games get released it will be exactly the same.
And you can blame modding for the ***** show of complaints too, 'I want this version for speed running' 'the lattency is not what I want' 'I want the fog back' 'I want the buttons to be different way round'.
Just buy he original hardware and software and play it the ACTUAL way it was intended, nothing else is real.
@Gwynbleidd The reason I blame modding is because it has spoilt people to think that they can manipulate these games how they want, because they can. And as many have indicated they do it better than Nintendo. As my original post the only real way to experience these games is on original hardware and software, anything else is just on real.
But I am always of the thinking that the product is made by a company and they decide a price, then the consumers buy or don't buy. It's a simple as that, moaning won't change anything because on base it's good enough but just could be better.
@dew12333 You are arguing with the logic that if a store sells oranges and a buyer is actually looking for apples, then it is the opinion of that buyer that the whole store should stop selling oranges simply because they are personally not interested, and they instead wanted apples. Meanwhile, there's still a crowd of people happily buying oranges.
You can never form an argument that these people will understand. They think they as one consumer should have all the power when clearly the amount of money the company makes selling oranges says otherwise.
@Gavintendo hear hear!
I’m more pissed at the fact that even though I bought the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe DLC, Nintendo is begging me to buy their ***** online service expansion because they’ve turned into Mr. Krabs.
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