Brawl has a huge competitive community, and pro matches are always played in neutral stages. And, guess what? It IS fun, and it also requires skill. When you get chaingrabbed to death in stages like Snake's, you'll understand.

Except that if you have items on and four players -- the default conditions for online (which is what the original post is talking about), and the conditions the game was designed for -- chain grabbing isn't really a problem on any stage because there are leveling factors (unless of course your friends sit idly as you are chain grabbed indefinitely, haha).

I understand the reason for neutral stages in a 1-on-1 tournament (I've played several Melee tournaments and loved it), but not only do I have a crazy preference for playing more than one stage, the "neutrality" is not really applicable online because you still have items and four players. These players who force you to play FD over and over online are trying to turn it into competitive Smash, which it cannot become due to the default, unchangeable conditions of online Basic Brawl.

But since my previous misleading comments (well, it wasn't just me, but anyway) have led the conversation this way, I do think four-player tournaments (whether team or free-for-all) or tournaments with items would be more fun and more interesting. When doing 1-on-1 with no items and only so many stages, the game becomes more limited (in comparison). Unfortunately, the only tournaments we've had around here were of the typical format.

How good is Lucario meant to be? I like him.

He currently seems to be "B-Tier". So not bad according to the general consensus.

The Brawl tournament Gamestop held last year at launch had items and used random stages, at least at the introductory in-store level. It was hilarious to watch because nobody had actually played the game yet and didn't know how stuff worked (most obviously hadn't been watching the Smash Dojo). The people who picked new-in-Brawl characters lost quickly to those who at least had the basic familiarity from Melee to work with. I think more Smash tournaments should work like that. The ones I play using the in-game tournament mode at home do, and it's loads of fun!

Also, "tiers R 4 queers!" Forget where I first heard that, though.

Yea, the Gamestop tournament here even forced the players to have random character selection, which resulted in some funny match-ups. I like normal tournaments, but I found that one to be more fun.

I'm agreeing with Adam here. Ive played plenty of 1 on 1 matches with no items, 3 stock, FD. It is fun trust me, but it pales in comparison to the fun factor created when you play wiith 4 players (FFA or Teams), low items, random stages, 3 stock.

It's 10 times more fun. You see things that you'd think would never happen. It helps destroy cheap tactics like chain grabbing or spamming moves like with metaknight (top tier characters).

Brawl is the best party fighter ever, but everyones ruining it and turning it into a street fighter kinda game.

It's okay and fun to play it either way, I just wish there were tournaments of both kinds. And people who aren't that good need to stop picking FD online over and over again. XD

yeah i know adam. nintendo shoulda made the online a bit better for brawl since its like theyre best multiplayer game imo

Because "It adds to the skill involved, so the kills aren't as cheap, and it's only down to how good the player is, and not the stage." Same reason they turn items off.

yea but it sucks you lose variety in the game. thats what makes brawl so amazing, the creative stages, the crazy items, then vast amount of characters to select.

Wow, my store's manager wasn't THAT mean! I would have to say that sounds more fair, though. It quite possibly removes the only real advantage an avid Melee player had.

Metaknight? Top-tier? Man, I SUCK with that guy! See how I didn't say "that guy SUCKS" even though that fits my opinion better? Everyone everywhere should follow my example! But I know they won't...

That guy sucks!
Wait, who what now?

I don't know that our tournament was fair. Sticking someone with Olimar who has never played him before against someone with Fox isn't really fair. It was very amusing though, and considering the excitement for the night, no one seemed to care about fairness.

i actually think brawl had some pretty bad level designs so i understand why people pic final destination

I hate that too. Final Destination is the most boring stage in the entire game. It doesn't even have any frickin' platforms! Avoiding all the obstacles that get thrown at you in the stages is part of the fun in Brawl. I assume FD is always chosen by all the hardcore players, because it has no interferences and makes you rely more on your actual skills, but that never works too well for me because I always try to use the stage to my advantage. But, I still put up with it. After all, I'm lucky if I can get into a working match half the time.

Sorry, it was a generic rant about how people on the internet tend to word things, and nothing against anybody on this thread at all. It just came to my mind and I typed it. I do that.

Oh, I was just jokingly saying it since you said everyone was going to say it anyway.

Oh. Huzzah for miscommunication!