I meant the entire industry, I wasn't just talking about blockbusters and chickflicks. Hipsters don't want Disney movies because they're not dark or gritty enough. Teens don't want Disney because they don't have the attention span for a feature flick. And kids are more interested in games than movies these days. The only market they're appealing to are people who grew up with The Lion King, and that market isn't sustainable.
Depends, do you mean all Disney films, including Pixar, Marvel, Lucasfilm, etc, or just Disney's in-house animated films?
Disney films have been remarkably "four quadrant" lately, meaning they've been consistently drawing from both genders, young and old. Two big breakout hits of 2014 were Maleficent and Guardians of the Galaxy, both Disney films, neither of which anyone really expected to do much beyond break even. But you had everyone from young girls to adult men going to those films and enjoying them. Then you had the jingoistic cowboy Captain America movie doing great overseas.
And Disney's traditionally animated films are slowly being replaced by CGI films like Tangled, Frozen, and Big Hero 6. All of those films were successful. One of those is the highest grossing film of 2013 (narrowly beating out the other big Disney film that year, Iron Man 3) and the 5th highest grossing film of all time.
Disney films are doing just fine, and so is rock music.
@CaviarMeths
That was my point. Saying Nintendo is dead because the market is moving to other things is as stupid as saying that rock is dead or Disney are dead. You can point to the charts and focus groups all you want but the market is far more complicated than that.
Frozen was insanely successful and the last album by QOTSA a couple of years ago was their most commercially successful album yet. There was a point where people said Disney was dead and people are always saying rock is dead. In the same way people have been saying Nintendo is dead for years. Nintendo is basically the same spot in the gaming media's mind now as they were before the Wii and DS. With the same "gamers have moved on" BS.
If the content is good then it'll find a market and their content is good. So writing them off entirely is pretty short sighted
@skywake Ah, I didn't see that you were making a false argument. Thread is getting too big to keep up with the whole thing, so I'm kinda just skimming.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
If the content is good then it'll find a market and their content is good. So writing them off entirely is pretty short sighted
That's a very naive point of view. Just because something is good doesn't mean it can sell. There has to be enough demand for the product for it to attract a market. Markets don't just appear out of thin air to obligatorily support something that's good, it has to be something that they want.
If the content is good then it'll find a market and their content is good. So writing them off entirely is pretty short sighted
That's a very naive point of view. Just because something is good doesn't mean it can sell. There has to be enough demand for the product for it to attract a market. Markets don't just appear out of thin air to obligatorily support something that's good, it has to be something that they want.
That being said, quality does show and word of mouth can move millions, if the stars align. Generally, to sell like that something would have to be so amazing that its an easy sell, like Minecraft, for instance.
Nintendo is basically the same spot in the gaming media's mind now as they were before the Wii and DS. With the same "gamers have moved on" BS.
Hang on though. The handhelds really shouldn't be grouped with the consoles. Nintendos handhelds have never been struggling. They've always dominated that market and have even for the most part survived the smartphone explosion. Consoles are entirely separate. The Wii really can be separated from the rest in that arena because it's massive success was down to the casual market and a lot of people who aren't really "gamers" (I know of more families that owned wiis for the sake of family occasions than I know of individuals who owned them for personal gaming). When it comes to actual dedicated gaming consoles, Nintendo are definitely on the back foot after what looks like 3 successive decreases in market share.
@Dezzy
Except the DS wasn't an immediate success and in the early days there were doomsayers saying that the PSP was going to crush it. Pokemon, their big title, was still massive but it was getting less popular with each generation. When I got my copy of Pearl in '07 at launch the person behind the counter was surprised that Pokemon was "still a thing". People wrote it off entirely even before smartphones. It was only really when Brain Training, New Super Mario Bros and the DS Lite hit that it really took off.
The same thing again before the Wii U and 3DS launched, the same is happening now and the same thing is said of "old news" in every media. But quality content always survives. Fads die fast, quality lives.
I always thought that basically Miyamoto can greenlight or do whatever he wants.
For anybody else especially if they are younger getting it allowed is extremely difficult.
(Might well be totally wrong on this. But I think Pikmin was allowed because Miyamoto wanted to do that somebody else wouldn't get the same treatment).
Splatoon appears to disagree with you, but it does definitely seem like Nintendo's fresher groups are often stuckon projects with less wiggle room while their veteran devs are allowed to do whatever seems right to them.
To some degree, yes. One of the big reasons their longer running franchises like Mario, Zelda, etc aren't doing as well recently is because the developers are putting in too many ideas that appeal to them rather than the general population. Or for some, appeal too heavily to the Japanese market and not enough to the international one.
I always thought that basically Miyamoto can greenlight or do whatever he wants.
For anybody else especially if they are younger getting it allowed is extremely difficult.
(Might well be totally wrong on this. But I think Pikmin was allowed because Miyamoto wanted to do that somebody else wouldn't get the same treatment).
Splatoon appears to disagree with you, but it does definitely seem like Nintendo's fresher groups are often stuckon projects with less wiggle room while their veteran devs are allowed to do whatever seems right to them.
That it almost got Mario branded seems to kind of agree at least if some of the stuff I have read about how it came into being is correct.
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
To some degree, yes. One of the big reasons their longer running franchises like Mario, Zelda, etc aren't doing as well recently is because the developers are putting in too many ideas that appeal to them rather than the general population. Or for some, appeal too heavily to the Japanese market and not enough to the international one.
Zelda isn't actually as popular in Japan as it us in the west, not sure about Mario. They do well on their handhelds though so I doubt its a lack of interest in either franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if many people are just getting their fill of Nintendo games on the 3DS instead
They might focuse a little too much on what they want sometimes, or perhap don't pay enough attention to what others want us more accurate. I think a lot if it is having to buy a whole new console for them though. Spending $300 on a console for a couple games is a tall order to ask of people, and as much as they might want them its not worth the investment, certainly not when compared to the competition.
I know its been talked about to death already, but much of it is the lack of 3rd-party games. People buy consoles for popular AAA multiplates more than exclusives these days, even Sony admitted only 4/10 of their games are successful.
To some degree, yes. One of the big reasons their longer running franchises like Mario, Zelda, etc aren't doing as well recently is because the developers are putting in too many ideas that appeal to them rather than the general population. Or for some, appeal too heavily to the Japanese market and not enough to the international one.
Zelda isn't actually as popular in Japan as it us in the west, not sure about Mario. They do well on their handhelds though so I doubt its a lack of interest in either franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if many people are just getting their fill of Nintendo games on the 3DS instead
That first statement isn't at all true. Zelda's quite popular in Japan, but they really don't like the 3D Zeldas. Without putting too much stock into Gaijin Goomba (I'm aware there's a lot of hate for the guy in certain places), the 3D Zeldas are more about an experience. They try to make the music and atmosphere and scenario come together in a way that the West is far more familiar with. The 2D Zeldas are more of a gameplay deal, though, and it actually works out fairly well for them. Part of the reason Link Between Worlds was so well received was that it blended the gameplay retro Zelda fans and Eastern audiences prefered with the style and atmosphere more akin to what Western audiences preferred. It's far from a perfect mix, mind you, but it did that better than most other Zelda games. (It's also worth noting that handhelds are vastly more popular in Japan due to living conditions and spending most of your time away from home and so on, and so forth, blah, blah, blah. Do I look like a Japanese expert? I just know what I've been told. XD)
Zelda not being as popular in Japan is exactly why a lot of modern Zelda game decisions are bad ideas. For example, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks seem to have been made to try and make it popular in the region, but they ended up losing most of what made the series great in the process. Various story and art elements in The Wind Waker and Skyward Sword seemed to be intended to appeal to Japanese audiences too... and they put off the Western ones who actually bought more Zelda games.
Zelda would do better if Nintendo just ignored Japanese gamers and made it purely for Western audiences, since that's where the market for that type of game is.
To some degree, yes. One of the big reasons their longer running franchises like Mario, Zelda, etc aren't doing as well recently is because the developers are putting in too many ideas that appeal to them rather than the general population. Or for some, appeal too heavily to the Japanese market and not enough to the international one.
Zelda isn't actually as popular in Japan as it us in the west, not sure about Mario. They do well on their handhelds though so I doubt its a lack of interest in either franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if many people are just getting their fill of Nintendo games on the 3DS instead
That first statement isn't at all true. Zelda's quite popular in Japan, but they really don't like the 3D Zeldas. Without putting too much stock into Gaijin Goomba (I'm aware there's a lot of hate for the guy in certain places), the 3D Zeldas are more about an experience. They try to make the music and atmosphere and scenario come together in a way that the West is far more familiar with. The 2D Zeldas are more of a gameplay deal, though, and it actually works out fairly well for them. Part of the reason Link Between Worlds was so well received was that it blended the gameplay retro Zelda fans and Eastern audiences prefered with the style and atmosphere more akin to what Western audiences preferred. It's far from a perfect mix, mind you, but it did that better than most other Zelda games. (It's also worth noting that handhelds are vastly more popular in Japan due to living conditions and spending most of your time away from home and so on, and so forth, blah, blah, blah. Do I look like a Japanese expert? I just know what I've been told. XD)
So do I. All I know is its not as popular, I would assume 3D Zelda is what they had in mind, the 2D ones seem to get left out of most discussions. Or maybe, just that both types are popular in the west, while Japan only likes 2D Zeldas. Their preference for handhelds might be a big part of it too, if they don't like or own consoles they wouldn't buy most 3D Zeldas anyway.
@CM30
The only 'Zelda' game they clearly did that with was Hyrule Warriors, since Japan likes warrior games and the west like 3D Zelda. The only Zelda game where the art style turned people off was Wind Waker, which now that people got over it not being a "realistic" Zelda is considered one of the best games in the series. Skyward Sword's problems were the motion controls, too much hand-holding, and being too linear. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit tracks were just attempts at making 3D Zelda on a handheld, their problem was mainly the touch-only controls.
None of that has anything to do with trying to appeal to a Japanese audience, and everything to do with Nintendo being very experimental with the series. The only reason Wind Waker even received complaints was people expected another Ocarina of Time, but got it instead. Well that, and the sail boat being too slow.
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Topic: Is Nintendo making the games they want to make a bad idea these days?
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