Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@skywake: So...something that doesn't exist yet should be competing with something that doesn't exist yet. I think this is the point I stop reading this thread and maybe com back to it in like 6 months. Hee hee

@GrailUK:
Well the way I see it asking what it's "competing" with is basically a question of which platform it lines up with the most. For example on specs you might want to argue that the Wii U was in competition with the 360 and PS3. Right? But the problem with that theory is that a year into the Wii U's life the PS4 launched. So the Wii U was in competition with the PS4 and XBOne.

Same deal here. Lets for a second assume that Nintendo launches their next home console in late 2017. Lets also assume that this home console has a typical console lifecycle and stays on the market for 5-6 years. So how is it going to compete not compete with the PS5? By the time the system is a couple of years on the market the PS4 would be 6 years on the market. Even if they push it out to 7 you can guarantee that the hype for the PS5 will start to build up before the actual launch.

If you ask me if they launch this year it'd be pretty borderline whether it's competing with the PS4 or PS5. If they launch next year I think having to compete with the PS5 on at least some level is unavoidable.

@skywake: You are spot on mate. 'Console wars' is basically top trumps with specs and numbers lol. "Resolution...900p." "1080p, I win". Lol, actually that would make a great card game! Why has no one done it?

Good analysts usually have connections in their market of expertise. But on the other hand, studies have shown that they are as accurate as coin flipping.

Response from the market, that I wouldn't count on meaning anything anymore. Most transactions are automated today. And how did the rest of asia go at the same time? Or the rest of tech? People put too much trust in the market.

900p is a really strange number. Why would they go for something that isn't a common resolution?

Edit: it could of course be a more common res for an handheld.

@Therad: Yea, the 900p rumor (yes, yes, I know... all just rumors) is what really makes me think the NX is actually handheld, or at least the handheld "portion" of the NX "ecosystem." And I did just see a rumor on the front page of the site about a new Paper Mario for Wii U... all rumors, but it would further back that this first release is going to be the handheld, and the Wii U is going to hold on for one more year.

Even for a portable its a strange number and in some respects it's especially strange for a portable. I wonder what sort of portable system would reliably be able to drive "900p". It would also be a waste of effort assuming they go with a screen size similar to the 3DS. At 5" (slightly bigger than the XL) 900p would be ~370PPI, at 3.5" it'd be ~520PPI. The iPhone 6+ is 400PPI. For a portable I reckon 480p is sensible, 720p would be nice, 1080p is a waste of effort.

@skywake: Hrm, very interesting numbers. But 900p on a home console, especially if the NX home portion doesn't come around until 2017, will be completely archaic, right?

900p could refer to a new gamepad like the Wii U. (I love having a second screen on my gamepad dammit!)

@rallydefault:
For a home console you'd assume it'd support either 1080p or 4K. You'd expect in the price point they'd be targeting that it'd be able to run most games at 1080p. Though it would be a game-by-game thing and if it is on the lower end of the specs? Some games might run at 900p. Some games could also run at 720p. It's really upto the developers.

In terms of the "it could be the gamepad" idea, I'll put that one this way. For a good image and fast scaling ideally you want the conversion to be symmetrical, ideally converting a full 4x4 square into a single pixel or visa versa. Basically 1:2, this is what converting from 1080p to 4K is. Failing that you want the thing to resolve itself quickly. For example 2:3 where you divide it up by going 1.5, 1.5 and then you're done. This is what converting from 480p to 720p or 720p to 1080p is. Then there's 1440p, a special case. 1440p isn't so neat when converting from 1080p but when converting from 720p (1:2) or 480p (1:3)? It's incredibly neat.

Look at those numbers on the left hand side. The higher it is the worst the conversion is. If you've ever played a DS game on the 3DS game you'd know this effect because going from DS to 3DS is 4:5. You know that blurry effect? That was because it didn't scale neatly. The same is true when converting from 900p. 900p isn't neat for any conversion. For 1080p it's 5:6, 720p 4:5, 1440p 5:8, 480p 8:15 and for 4K it's 5:12. So really I have no idea why they would build that sort of resolution into the hardware.

@skywake: I get ya Mr Wake

@skywake: well, if you google 900p, you realise that many of the games on xbox and ps4 renders at that resolution. So probably a fake rumour.

@skywake: if 900p nx is the gamepad, then it would have it's own 3d hardware and that might be the resolution it renders to instead. personally, i just think it's a red herring. a freeform display would likely not just be a rectangle so 900p would be an irrelevant measure.

@Jamotello @Therad
Oh I know it's a Red Herring. I'm just trying to explain why it doesn't make sense

If we want to argue that it's the resolution games will be rendered at? Then that can make sense but it'd be a game-by-game thing. Not something locked into the specs. I do think the market researchers just copy/pasted some "specs" from the XBOne. I'd argue that the XBOne is 1080p with the ability to output 4k 30fps for video streaming if it wants to. That's how it was marketed, that's what the hardware can do.

If it's a portable system then it could work but 900p is a bit overkill. It'd also have the same problem the 3DS had with backwards compatibility but also be weird for the VC. With a GamePad you run into the same issues as the portable (backwards compatibility, overkill, VC) but with one added extra issue. For off-TV play there's no reason to re-render the game at a lower resolution.

IMO for the HDMI output? It's going to be 1080p, possibly 4K support if they also push video streaming. Games are probably going to be rendered at all sorts of resolutions with a lot of VC stuff being rendered at 480p. For another GamePad I think 720p makes the most sense with 1080p and 480p still options. For a portable I think 480p makes a lot of sense with 720p being an option. 900p is a very strange resolution to lock in and I don't think it makes a lot of sense. Possible? Maybe. A good idea? No.

I kinda laugh when I see someone want NX to be a 4K games game console. (Not directed at anyone here but other places.) Like here are my questions for those people:

-Do you realize how much the system would cost to build?(I think averagely for a 4k gaming pc you spend $800 on the CPU and GPU ALONE.)
-Do you realize how much internet it would hog?(minimum 25mbps speed is recommend for idle usage, 50 in conjunction for other devices. Streaming content of course but still.)
-Do you realize how much your electric bill is gonna go up.(it'd consume a lot of power.)
-Do you realize how expensive it'd be to make games for?
-Do you realize you'd probably have to pay like $100 USD for new big games?

Sorry for the rant.

@Whitewatermoose: What is Wii U? 720p? Honestly I never even knew lol - you can tell how much importance I put on that stuff.

@rallydefault: It depends on the game. Some games run at 1080p, others at 720p.

@WebHead:
Of all your points about why 4K is stupid only the first one is valid. Just because most of us have crappy internet connection doesn't mean 4K content isn't possible. Yes machines capable of driving 4K for games consume more power but it's still in the same ballpark as the PS4/XBOne. But in terms of developing games? I think you're not understanding what the leap to HD was about. They've already made the jump to making highly detailed worlds, the jump to 4K from there is a tiny wiggle by comparison.

@rallydefault:
It's all dictated to by the HDMI version. In theory the Wii U, PS4 and XBOne can output 4K at 30Hz, 1080p at 120Hz and 3D 1080p at 60Hz. The 360 and PS3 could only do 1080p at 60Hz. You'd assume that Nintendo's next home console would use HDMI 2.0 and support displaying all of that and also 4K at 60Hz. But running games at that resolution? Probably not.

@skywake: so you're gonna pay like $100 bucks for a 4k pikmin game? Are you happy with your electric bill skyrocketing?

@WebHead: A few things:
1. This is Australia, $100 for a game isn't crazy here
2. Where did I say that Nintendo games will be running at 4K anytime soon?
3. Any game that looks great at 1080p will scale 4K, this isn't like the jump from 480p
4. In game power consumption by system, remember that these chips continue to get more power efficient:

Wii - 40W
Wii U - 35W
PS3 Slim - 85W
PS4 - 150W
PS3 original - 190W
4K capable gaming PC - 250W

Idle power consumption on that PC and the PS4 are both ~90W. In a few years time or simply with a more streamlined design? There's no reason why a 4K capable machine couldn't be in that 130-200W range. We're basically there already.