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Topic: Super Mario Odyssey

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Maxz

@Octane I've been thinking exactly the same thing about Galaxy (although my earlier post was long enough without including it). It's definitely somewhere between the two extremes. Also, the simple fact that the neither of the Galaxy games had a timer allows for a much fleer and more explorative play-style, even in the linearly designed levels.

The Galaxy levels are still appear to be some way off Sunshine and 64's openness however - more so than I expected - I've just done a quick recap to jog my memory. The most open levels - at a glance - seem to be Freezeflame, Beach Bowl, Dusty Dune, Honeyclimb, and maybe Melty Molten. I definitely remember Freezeflame feeling satisfyingly exploratory.

But yeah, it's a continuum, really. SM3DL/W were restricted to being linear by design; a flagpole and a time limit leave little room for variation, but with the other games that linearity can change from level to level. Even Sunshine had its bare-bones platforming segments, often where you were literally just running from A to B in a straight line (with the occasional jump for interest). In fact, that's been one of the series' great strengths; you can have such a lot of different level designs all in one game, making the levels - and the game itself - feel more unique and memorable.

If I had to rank them from most explorative to most linear it'd be: SM64/Sunshine (I daren't say which), Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2, SM3DL/W (again, not sure which). And then you could throw the NSMB series right at the top if you're feeling cheeky.

Anyway, I've nattered on about this long enough already, and I need to get to bed, but still... I think it's been worth some thought.

@Dev: Is there any footage of Nintendo using the word 'sandbox'? That would... somewhat mess up my dismissal of the term.

EDIT: Found it!Mr. Miyamoto's translator (known only as Raymond) does indeed refer to 64 at a 'Sandbox-Type-Style Game', so there it is. In the sentence he's translating, Mr. Miyamoto's own words are "箱庭/Hakoniwa/Box Garden/Miniature Garden", so it's unclear whether "Sandbox" is merely Raymond's interpretation, or Nintendo's official life. Either way I think it's ambiguously close to the term used to describe Gary's Mod, MineCraft, and other open-ended creation tools. The point of a sandbox is that it's a blank slate; there's pretty much nothing there except sand, but that sand can be shaped and used to create anything the player desires. The whole point is the image of a blank space waiting to be sculpted.

Mario games aren't blank spaces, and you almost never freely sculpt the environment (even if you can often modify it); it's not a creation tool. So I think the term is inaccurate at worst and ambiguous at best. As a translation of 'box garden exploration game', it at least gets the 'box' image across, whereas a 'box garden' is likely to already be meticulously sculpted and manicured (in the manner of most Mario levels), a 'box of sand' is likely to be just... sand. Maybe appropriate for desert levels, but falls apart a bit as a general analogy in my opinion.

Not that it makes a great deal of difference. The games are what they are and it doesn't really matter what we call them. The main result of this is that I've spent a decent amount of time having a linguistic argument with myself. But... yeah, I think a different word from 'open-world' or 'sandbox' would be ideal. However, if it's me against Nintendo, I'm not going to put up much more of a fight.

Edited on by Maxz

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StuTwo

The trailer reminds me a lot of that classic Simpsons Halloween segment where Homer goes into the 3rd dimension. Certainly the end of the segment where a computer generated Homer is walking around real streets but also the more abstract bits with street signs and the bit where Bart is climbing the bendy traffic light.

I want to say (without bothering to Google it) that episode dates back to around 1995, just before the mainstream started to see 3D graphics regularly and just before Toy Story came out.

Back then the strange abstraction of that episode seemed like it was the future - I thought we'd all be playing games that looked like that a few years later - but it's a future that never really came to pass. After Mario 64 3D games seemed to become more conventional in setting and less abstract. Hopefully Mario Odyssey does recapture the "feeling" that it's really a strange and exciting new world.

It certainly looks great so far.

StuTwo

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jump

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Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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FGPackers

I think that this game will be a great starting point for a lot of future Mario memes! By the way i'm really happy that they returned to a more hardcore type of Mario experience. I liked so much Galaxy 1 & 2 and 3D World but the difficulty difference between game itself and final level is too much and kind of frustrating. Better if they do a more constant experience within the game itself and not put all difficulties in one last impossible level

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FriedSquid

The whole concept of a "real" world is not something I expected Nintendo to put Mario in. Yet for some reason I never questioned it when I played Sonic Adventure as a kid... Maybe seeing Mario who's a cartoon human around "real" humans makes it more jarring.

Anyway, New Donk City still looks fun to explore!

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Maxz

@Dev Surely "New Donk City" is a reference to the only park of Donkey Kong's name that isn't a reference to King Kong? Namely, the "Donkey" bit...

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TheLegendOfLaser

I'm curious if there's gonna be 2-player co-op with Mario and Luigi. I can see it happening, since they planned on making Super Mario 64 co-op (I think). Also, Super Mario Odyssey kind of feels like a sandbox Super Mario Galaxy.

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FGPackers

I hope there will be two, recalling the reveal trailer scene with the lady going to that "party"

FGPackers

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Octane

@FGPackers It isn't though. The description clearly says ''1 player''.

Octane

LzWinky

So this game is essentially a middle finger to Universal? I love it

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Nicolai

Anyone else get a Splatoon vibe from this Crazy Cap shop? It's like the Cooler Heads of the Mario Universe.
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Edited on by Nicolai

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Therad

Dev wrote:

I think Crazy Cap is a shop where you can buy power-up hats.

Yeah, I think it is a given. They have the shop in every region, why would they do it if it doesn't have any in-game meaning?

Therad

Joeynator3000

Guys, I figured everything out, and the game's true and final name.
It features hat, 4 large locations, is likely based on a time system, and has a moon visible everywhere you go.

Super Mario: Majora's Hat.
Majora's Hat is controlling Bowser, you have 3 days to stop the wedding, or the moon destroys the world.

NAILED IT.

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Octane

@Joeynator3000 You can also transform into a business man, a walking spoon or a dancing skeleton!

Octane

Joeynator3000

Seriously though, that hat ship worries me, was hoping the hub level would be like 64's/Sunshine's. Starting to think it'll be like one of the Galaxy games, mainly 2. :c

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Keep it PG-13-ish.

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FGPackers

@Joeynator3000 My real fear is that levels number is really 4. Even if they are big, sounds not good to me. I hope they're hiding most of it

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Tyranexx

@Joeynator3000: I would totally play that.

I'm sure there's more than they're showing. Nintendo doesn't normally pull what I call the "movie in a trailer" shtick.

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Joeynator3000

Yeah I'm sure there's more than 4 levels.

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Keep it PG-13-ish.

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