@MarcelRguez The difference between completing all the shrines and collecting all the Korok seeds in Zelda, one gets you another outfit, the gets you nothing. That difference already exists in games since forever. Some games have worthless collectibles, others get you a neat bonus item/skill.
They are part of the game. That is like saying you are not wanting to participate in a certain level of the game and then COMPLAIN about it.
That comparision is beyond laughable. Generally speaking, the whole achievement is presented quite obviously as a feature if the system and not as a part of the game. That's one of the reasons why some people dislike the whole ordeal in the first place.
Frankly, that you're willing to make that comparison with a straight face just makes you a perfect example of what I was writing about in my previous posts, the point about people being more interested in the gamified OS than in the games themselves.
@Octane I'm assuming completing every shrine is what gets you the outfit while the seeds get you nothing in return, right?
Now, is there anything at all in the game that tries to incentive you to get all korok seeds, or is getting them a self-imposed challenge? Are they a part of percentage completion or not? If they are, then I agree with your point, even if they can be made into a very solid example against the inclusion of achievements. You know for a fact that if the Switch had such a feature this would be one of those menial task you have to do in order to be 100% done with the game. As it stands, you can just ignore them.
You mentioned "challenges" which is one of the reasons why I don't really care about achievements. I've seen games where you get an achievement or trophy simply for starting the game. Heck, you can get a platinum on the Vita simply by touching the screen a bunch of times: http://www.playstationtrophies.org/game/my-name-is-mayo-vita/...
That is the entire point of that game man. It is a $.99 joke that pokes fun at trophy collecting. It is also a cash grab as everyone who collects trophies has paid the $1 to get the trophies.
There are thousands of games with very challenging trophies. That is why it is hard to get the platinum trophy in most games. I have 96 platinum trophies out of the 700+ games I have played.
That's one of the reasons why some people dislike the whole ordeal in the first place.
I do not care what you or anyone else dislikes. Don't chase trophies if you do not like them. Quit complaining about it. Any rational adult knows they do not have to go after the trophies in a game. Put your big boy pants on and play the games however you choose.
not read the rest of this thread but i think achievements are definately a good thing, they will push people that think they are done with the game to play it more and plus you know you wanna have more points than your friends, its a competitive thing
I see now that bad or lazy developers are just bad and lazy because of trophies? I think that's putting way too much hyperbole on the impact of trophies on development teams. A convenient scape goat to hide their laziness / unwillingness to actually offer meaningful rewards. And bad devs have been around forever, so I certainly don't think they suddenly popped up because of achievements. Like anything, some people abuse it, others work with it to enhance their product. Can't blame the entirety for the actions of a few.
@BinaryFragger So achievements are rarely implemented correctly and are just a way of artificially padding the game and making progression feel more meaningful than it actually is? Because if that's what you're saying, we're on the same page here.
@Lethal If I'm not wearing big boy pants right now, you are crapping the place around in conversational diapers.
Why don't you try to make a cohesive argument to see if you can make me shut up about it? You didn't even address the points I made properly (or @shaneoh's, for that matter), and I'm beginning to think it's because you don't know how.
@Octane Then it's meaningless, I agree, and I'm sure most people would see that as a fault in the game. Now the question is, would people's perception change if you added a completion achievement to the game? Because I believe it would, and that's why I say achievements can be problematic. They can be used to masquerade pointless fluff such as this.
Why don't you try to make a cohesive argument to see if you can make me shut up about it? You didn't even address the points I made properly (or @shaneoh's, for that matter), and I'm beginning to think it's because you don't know how.
Actually I just don't care. You can cry me a river all day long though. It is a good song.
not read the rest of this thread but i think achievements are definately a good thing, they will push people that think they are done with the game to play it more and plus you know you wanna have more points than your friends, its a competitive thing
Exactly. It can be a lot of fun seeing who can collect 300 trophies first. I do competitions where the first one to collect 1,000 trophies wins. But some people like to "cry rivers" and complain. I have over 10,000 PS trophies and I do not regret a single one. I adore trophies/achievements.
@MarcelRguez
But see, you're really whitewashing gamers in your argument. In post#164, you state: "And you can't say for sure that it hasn't affected your experience because making features such as this one an almost global standard conditions how consumers perceive games..."
Well, hook me up to some wires and get a pen and pencil, because achievements/trophies/whatever the heck Steam uses have had ZERO impact on how I approach my games. I don't look at them, I don't pursue them, and when the system allows, I turn of their notifications altogether.
That throws a pretty big wrench in your "all people think this way" kind of argument, which is a fallacy, and pretty "laughable" (to use the term you seem fond of accusing other arguments of). Am I the only person in the world who acts this way, either? Logically, not by a long shot.
@rallydefault I don't think you understood the point I was making in that conversation: that you can't be sure if having achievements active changes significantly your perception of the game or not. You'd have to play the game twice (one with, one without) to test it, and even then there's the whole "how did you play it first" thing. Nevertheless...
You in particular might not have changed your approach, others might. It's just illogical to separate the game from the way the platform works, the entire context surrounding the game changes, however slightly. And more importantly, the presence of a feature-loaded OS that interacts with your games changes the games the devs themselves create in the first place. It's one of the many reasons why the 7th gen of consoles was plagued by militaristic FPSs, it's a genre that can easily tap into the cheap thrills of achievements since they are usually competitive and skill-based. Plenty of oportunities to add those pesky medals.
Besides that, why did you turn off the achievement notifications?
So if it became mandatory for all games, my choice is either participate or not play games?
Hello! McFly! They are mandatory. All Xbox and Playstation games have trophies and achievements. They are mandatory. So you are not participating in anything. They are part of the game. That is like saying you are not wanting to participate in a certain level of the game then COMPLAIN about it.
So if I'm McFly that would make you Tannen. XD.
You do realise that there are other platforms to play on other than Sony and Microsoft made ones, right? You should do, this is Nintendolife after all. Then there is PC. As I said, achievements are not mandatory for those systems, ergo, achievements are not mandatory.
I'm a tad disappointed, you had a few hours to write a response and that was the best you could come up with? An argument which I had already countered?
Why don't you try to make a cohesive argument to see if you can make me shut up about it? You didn't even address the points I made properly (or shaneoh's, for that matter), and I'm beginning to think it's because you don't know how.
I agree. It's not as if I'm not open to having my mind changed, there was a time when I would have been for achievements. But as this argument (if we can call it that) goes on, my conviction is only getting stronger. We should have the option to disable achievements completely, not just turn off notifications.
You in particular might not have changed your approach, others might.
I'm going to be honest here, for a while it did change how I played games, until I realised there was no enjoyment to be had from it. I would check what it wanted me to do and play accordingly. Looking back over the games I've got all the achievements for, those achievements didn't provide any lasting joyous memory.
But I remember finishing the hardest difficulty of Hitman Blood Money with a silent assassin rating in each level. I remember beating Nappa with Tien in the story mode of Dragonball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (6 health bars and stronger attacks to my two bars and standard attacks, you're meant to go through several characters beating him). I remember stealing a win from my mates while playing King of the Hill in Halo 2 (it had been a decade since I had last used an original Xbox). I remember my poorly armed squad of dwarves in Dwarf Fortress, cutting the limbs off of a were-lizard, before knocking out its teeth and spilling its guts (damn that was awesome).
Any single one of those memories of achievement is worth more than all of the developer's achievements I've unlocked. Sure I've started up "Universal sandbox," but so have ~91% of all the other people who own it. I've started it up ten thousand times and I don't feel I've achieved anything, despite it telling me I have.
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