Topic: Achievements?

I think Nintendo missed out by not including an offline achievement/trophy system. Yes its a bit childish wanting a metascore to brag about but its brought a lot of fun to my gaming friends and myself and I think Nintendo could have done it better than others

Oh that was you. Ya you need to worry about yourself and move on.

As I said, I'll do that, you worry about why you get angry when someone has a conflicting opinion.

Because you were attacking someone who enjoys trophies. That is why I stepped in.

I could easily attack you for not enjoying trophies. But I could care less how you play your games.

I would really like the "option" to have trophies or similar system on Switch. Bottom line: I would buy more third party games on Switch. I use them to see what else I can do in a game once completed to delay my need to buy another. I also use them to reminisce about games I had played previously. On PS4, you can actually set the system up to record the moments before achieving a trophy. Some massive fluke moments have played out which have led to an unlock and I can rewatch these anytime. Finally, I enjoy seeing where my friends are at in game. It fosters a little spirit of competition. I appreciate all of these things are not for everyone, and I get that. For a system to leave them out, however, just seems weird at this point.

Lets look at where you interjected:

I was reacting incredulously to the idea that the lack of achievements is the sole reason that someone wouldn't buy a game or games console. If I were attacking them I would call the whole concept asinine, but I didn't, until now that is. Dissension isn't an attack, disbelief isn't an attack, debate isn't an attack.

If you don't think achievements are generally used as a cheap substitute for meaningful rewards, you are lying to yourselves.

Offering "rewards" on a system level streamlines the work of so, so many devs. It breeds laziness in anything design related, since they can hand these generic rewards instead of, say, anything that reconfigures how the player interacts with the game. In fact, playing any game with system-integrated achievements is to play two different games at once: the game and the gamified OS/system. That people fail to realize that incorporating the latter into the former would make the core experience more inherently rewarding is just baffling to me.

It gets even worse. Studios that pander to the lowest common denominator don't have to make actual achievements inherently rewarding anymore: the system can carry that part of what used to be game design. Since achievement culture is a thing, people will do them anyway for the sake of meaningless, immersion-breaking completion. When you have people stating that they're only beating (if not completing) games that they aren't even enjoying just to get all achievements, that's definite proof of people being more engaged with the gamified system than with games as a whole.

In short: like what you like, but don't be surprised when corporations treat you like sheep when you're asking for carrot on a stick.

@Shellcore "I enjoy seeing where my friends are at in game"

...that's the best part! Not just for the competition (although some obviously use it for that purpose) - but if, for example, you see that your friend has never played a certain multiplayer mode that you think is really fun, you can suggest playing it with them to give them what would be a fresh experience! Most of my friends (myself included) aren't really 'trophy hunters' but, if I see that they haven't played a certain game-mode in Rocket League or GTAV for instance, we can drop in and give it a go for a change of pace ..I wouldn't say that trophies/achievements are totally essential - but seeing what my friends have been up to does peak my interest, so there's definitely some value there

Seeing how you love to use big words, it is clear that you think you are better than everyone. You say it is stupid for people to play or buy games based on trophies. I said you should worry about you and not worry about why people play their games. I also said that I have found some real gems that I never would have played if not for trophies. So now what? Trophy collecting has it's ups and downs just like any other hobby.

You are not participating in anything. Trophies/achievements are mandatory in all games. It is part of the game and you are volunteering when you purchase and play the games. Been like this for 10+ years now. And you can turn off the notifications so that you have no idea that you are unlocking the trophy or achievement.

@Lethal You are participating. When it says '2.8% of players have unlocked this trophy', it's because trophy unlock information is being fed back in to the system...and there's no way to prevent that information from being sent. You can turn off notifications - and you can change your privacy settings so other players cannot see your 'achievements' - but you cannot stop the unlock info from being sent, which is a little 'Big Brother'-ish...

We're talking about achievements, not credit card info. Besides, if a company really wanted, they could probably check your save data without achievements as well.

Forgive me for knowing words longer than two syllables. Looking up a word doesn't make a person stupid, we can't know everything. I'm certainly not better than anyone else for using longer words. I'm not better than anyone for any reason.

Why worry about myself? I'm in a good place. So I should keep blinkers on in regards to all other people? They call that self-absorbed. What you're saying really is "you don't agree with me so shut up."

I've bought some gems because I had some money left over in my wallet. So what? Your point is irrelevant. We both enjoyed them by chance, not because our choice to purchase said games meant anything.

Then how do I stop achievements from triggering? Whether I actively go for an achievement or not, some will still unlock, and I'm still participating.

The Switch would disagree with you. Same with the Wii U, the 3DS and PC (even in Steam they aren't a mandatory inclusion).

So if it became mandatory for all games, my choice is either participate or not play games? [sarcasm]Yeah what a fun path that would be for gaming to take.[/sarcasm]

I'll refer you to the Steam pic I supplied earlier.

FYI, I'm going to bed now, take your time with your reply.

@MarcelRguez Please could you give an example of when trophies have been used in lieu of actual rewards. Been thinking on this and struggling to be honest. MK8 - Gold Parts GT - Credits for cars + trophies. I guess what I'm getting at is bad developers are bad developers. Trophies don't really play into the development cycle - more of an afterthought.

@BinaryFragger It is when one way affects the hobby for the worse.
Besides, isn't that what these forums are for?

@Shellcore Most "kill X number of Y with weapon Z" achievements fall into that category. In fact, two of the last games I beat (Vanquish and The Evil Within) had achievements like that. It doesn't affect AAA games only either, I recall Shovel Knight having its fair share of meaningless achievements. And for the sake of the argument, I'd say all three games come from great developers.

I get what you're trying to say, that since they are implemented later they don't replace rewards but complement them. When that happens, I don't have much of a problem with it. You still get something out of completing the task. It still has its problems, but it's not as grating. Dead Rising's way of obtaining the Real Mega Buster is a great example of an achievement done correctly because it ties in diegetically with the game. But if the devs wanted me to kill 100 robots with melee in Vanquish, they should have thought of something to add to the game. It comes across as padding (if not grinding for no reason) and free advertisement for the platform holder.

@BinaryFragger I'd prefer the term debate. Everything apart from eating, sleeping, working and reproducing is now off limits then I guess. No passion allowed! It's about individual preferences on ways to improve the hobby. No matter your stance, surely furthering enjoyment of your spare time is worth a couple of posts in a forum.

@BinaryFragger I agree. I can be guilty of this at times. There shouldn't be a need to prove correctness, more a willingness to share the reasons behind preferences.

I miss good old fashioned unlocks. Achievements are a nuisance to me. They interrupt the flow of gameplay, and many of them are either for things that are basic like playtime or completing a tutorial or they are for a game play feature I'm likely not to use such as co-op. I don't personally need virtual badges to boast how well I may or may not play a game and all they do is contribute to a more cluttered OS gui. However like everything else that is consumer mainstream I'll wait until its forced upon me and decide then if it is worth the hassle.

Nobody said anything about credit card info...and that wasn't even the point. @Lethal said (rather assertively) that you don't have to participate - when, in fact, the opposite is true...the information is sent automatically and there is no way to opt out - so, by definition, whether you're doing it actively or passively, you're participating. To say otherwise is factually incorrect, that's all.

My point about it being 'Big Brother-ish' (note the 'ish') was that there is no way to opt out of the information being sent - nothing more, nothing less - I wasn't insinuating that XBL/PSN are some kind of inescapable Orwellian nightmares...just that, when somebody is categorically saying that you don't have to participate, it isn't strictly true. Regardless of whether you perceive it to be a reasonable or unreasonable amount of data, the data still gets sent.

@BinaryFragger Well of course it's subjective. I don't claim to have all the answers in this topic, but I do have a very strong opinion. I also think that most people that are fine with it or just don't care haven't thought about the ramifications of including such a system in the first place, both in the player's and the devs' end.

And you can't say for sure that it hasn't affected your experience because making features such as this one an almost global standard conditions how consumers perceive games, which in turn might affect how games are made in the first place. I'm not saying the fun you've had with your games isn't "valid" or anything to the effect, I'm saying that if achievements weren't a thing it would certainly be different. That's demonstrably true, or people wouldn't be asking Nintendo for an achievement system.

And again, I'm not against the concept of achievements on a conceptual level. When challenges are implemented inside the game in an adequate way, I think they can enhance the game setting, tone or themes.

Case in point: the difference between shooting every blue medallion in Resident Evil 4 and breaking every voodoo thingy in Tomb Raider 2013. One gets you another gun very early in the game, the other one gets you nothing but an achievement.

Hello! McFly! They are mandatory. All Xbox and Playstation games have trophies and achievements. They are mandatory. So you are not participating in anything. They are part of the game. That is like saying you are not wanting to participate in a certain level of the game then COMPLAIN about it.