Topic: Zelda General Discussion

Wow, this thread is really dead.

I have some thoughts, and I really don't want go back to GameFAQs (that community is ridiculously toxic). So I'll give this a shot and see if I can resuscitate this topic.

Anyway, I've been thinking about bosses as of late, particularly, adventure style bosses. As in the types of bosses that don't just require a lot of hits and do a lot of damage, but ones that require a unique strategy from other enemies in the game. That got me thinking of Zelda, and two other games similar to Zelda I've been playing as of late, Okami, and Pandora's Tower. To be quite honest, I don't think 3D Zelda bosses have historically been very good (on average, there are a few standout gems), while I quite like most of the bosses from Okami and Pandora's Tower (though I'm still working on Okami, I've just been a bit busy). But why is this?

I think the main thing it comes down to, is that most 3D Zelda bosses fail to consistently engage you. Many bosses in Zelda games have long sequences when they are basically doing nothing, either seemingly waiting for you to hurt them, or moving around in space where neither party can attack. Argorok, Volvagia, and Molgera are great examples of this. Now, I think there are two ways of remedying this. The first, is to simply make the process of finding and hitting the enemy's weak point engaging in itself. I think this is where the fun of battles like Stallord, Goht, and Blizzeta come from. Rolling around an arena in chase, or trying to break a giant ice cube are just genuinely fun things to do, whether it's challenging or not. This is something I see in both 3D Mario and Zelda games (The fun of Gooper Blooper or Dino Piranha is really just the way you damage them).

The second is to make the boss battle challenging by forcing the player to balance their dodges and attacks, so that they are constantly on alert for a chance to land a hit (either to expose the enemy's weak point or to do damage). This is where 3D Zelda struggles more. For example, consider Tentalus, who waits for what seems an eternity for you to shoot it's eye, with rather trivial simple-to-dodge attacks like shooting it's hair at you, and bringing it's tentacles up through the floor. So Zelda could benefit from taking a card from the series I mentioned. The Crimson Helm in Okami was consistently on the offensive, and you had to find an opening to hit him and damage his armor. Pandora's Tower is particularly good with this, making the weapon of choice one that must be charged to do substantial damage. So with most of the bosses on the offensive, you had to perfectly time your attacks such that you had a large enough window to charge your attack and do damage. The best bosses are ones that combine both of the things I mentioned, making the process of attacking fun in itself, while simultaneously making the challenge of timing enjoyable (That's why Ironclad Turret Master is one of my favorite bosses ever, I'll leave a link at the end)

Now, that all said, I think the series has been making progress since SS. The fights with Ghirahim, Scervo, and Koloktos required timing, and managed to be engaging even when simply executing an attack. But I still think there is room for improvement. Zelda U needs to continue offering experiences like the first two I mentioned in SS, and extend it to more larger scale bosses like they did with Koloktos.

Video of Ironclad Turret Master. Warning: gameplay spoilers for Pandora's Tower.

I don't get the criticism Phantom Hourglass has. Its my first ever Zelda game and has since it explains everything well about a Zelda game, I don't see the point of the hate. Even the touch controls are fairly done well.....granted, it'll sometimes get in the way but not always.

Now I've only played around seven Zelda games and I actually like the series enough to get me a lot of zelda games that I've missed. I actually see the problem it has in terms of chronology. Link Between worlds while being easy, is still the best 3ds game I've played and it comes close to kid icarus uprising to me atleast. The new Zelda looks amazing and I hope it expands the formula of Link Between worlds and makes it challenging.

Usually when playing Zelda games, you'd get stuck and the feeling of getting stuck is the fun part of Zelda and I actually like that. But when Link Between Worlds showed up, the stuck situation is gone and its so easy to find your way out. Now I'll go on and say that the stuck situation is what will make gamers think of the solution as much as they can and is this new Zelda game doesn't do that, I'm worried that it might not feel like a Zelda game in the end which worries me a little.

I can agree with you there. I have fond memories of spending a whole week (each day) trying to figure out how to get past the dungeon leading up to Ganon in the oracle games, or the fight with the King of Ikana Canyon in Majora's Mask, for just a few examples. I gotta say, the feeling you get when you finally figure it out (without looking it up) is one of the best feelings in the world. I don't exaggerate.

This cosplayer really got into character:

Nice picture, but no profanity, thanks.

Judging from the timeline, I guess Zelda U kinda killed this thread, huh?

Halloween is a month away guys, let this zombie rest

Eh, if I close it then a certain someone will just open a new one. And then we will have two dead threads instead of one.

The thread is specific and open enough to be excempt.

Ignore the deadness and go on.

Or let it sink back to the bottom.

...It's a Nintendo forum, we don't exactly have much else to talk about...

Actually, that's pretty cool. Props to the costume's creator!

I didn't even know this thread existed. O_o I'd always figured the Breath of the Wild/Zelda U thread was the de facto area for Zelda discussion.

@CanisWolfred Well of course, but, given that, you'd think someone would have posted about the timeline implications of Tri Force Heroes, or some such waste of time, here.

Shhhhh....don't give them ideas! I got to go two full years without having to hear more hair-brained timeline theories...at this rate, I might finally regain my sanity...

...but just in case, I'm not coming back to this thread pleasedont@me

@CanisWolfred

@CanisWolfred Where have you been these last two years? Apparently you "Zelda fans" are all about that noise.

Anywhere but here, avoiding these discussions!

Why is the SNES version called a Link to the Past?

The games plot doesn't have anything to do with time travel in a series that has lots of time travel. Title never made sense to me.

Of course after Zelda II my initial impression ALttP was that it was a poor imitator of the original with prettier graphics.....I preferred the precision of movement and swordplay of the original. I haven't completed the game since the 90's

@blaisedinsd Because it's not like that game has much of a story anyway. The Japanese version is called "Triforce of the Gods," so it just seems we got a nonsensical translation.

@blaisedinsd Because it's set before the two NES titles. The american boxart mentions the "predecessors of Link and Zelda".

I remember when I played it the first time I kept waiting for time travel to come up or something to link the games to the original 2.

When it didn't I classified the game as a re imagining of the original done with better technology. I never put much thought in to the timeline after than as I never got the N64. I look at each game as simply a re imagining each time now rather than a timeline that fits together. Well I guess Ocarina and Majora fit together like the first 2 did as far as progressing a narrative.

I recently started Wind Waker (GC version). I love the cell shading a e s t h e t i c s and the atmosphere.
The last Zelda game I've played was Majora's Mask, so the feeling of having all the time in the world to explore the game feels great.

I like to assume the "a link to the past" refers to the backstory of the game and how Ganon comes back using the descendants of the sages.

So, the current events of the game are linked to the past. Unlike in the first two games, where Ganon is just a demon thief, or a sleeping princess needs your help.