Video: Switch 2's GameCube Emulation Apparently Has Underlying Issues Nintendo "Desperately Needs To Fix"

I imagine they'll polish it up a bit as it goes, as least it isn't as much of a mess as the N64 games were at launch.

Speaking of on the Switch 2 can we please address how for no reason the emulator deliberately lags during the menus and Lava Piranha fight in Paper Mario and makes the latter way harder than it's supposed to be in the process?

I think the Wii BC to play GameCube games did well.

What I have played so far has been very good. However, if I want the original experience, I play on my original consoles on a crt tv which has a rear end the size of a cart horse's 🐎

But they look better now cause of hd
Upres. And other graphics improvement.

@Anti-Matter Because it was playing them natively through the hardware, no emulation involved

I noticed the input lag on Wind Waker instantly.

It is really obvious on a game you know well.

Frustrating given that it plays perfectly on Steamdeck...

thanks for highlighting this saves me wasting money on another half assed Nintendo emulation attempt. should have learnt my lesson after how utterly unplayable Mario golf (N64) was on my Wii.

Looks like 🐬 remains on top.

Having never played the current 3 games before getting a Switch 2.... I can't say I've noticed.

The only GC games I'd ever played properly in the past are Mario Sunshine and Mario kart double dash...... both via backwards compatibility on my Wii

I have been pretty pleased thus far with my NSO GCN controller and the GCN app. I spent hours rocking F-ZERO GX in the Summer of 2003 and when I booted it up in NSO, the muscle memory started coming back. Specifically when playing Aeropolis, I remembered where I took hard drifts and my old lines through the course. Sure, I guess it could be a little tighter, but I'm pretty darn happy.

Haven't seen any sizeable issues of note.

They should hire the Dolphin developers.

If you can't beat em, join em.

I've played all three games on offer quite a bit so far and I don't have any issues. Then again, I never play online, so that might be where the big faults come into play.

I'm very happy I bought the GameCube controller though! It really improves the experience!

The analogue stick calibration issue is the biggest one. They really need to fix that.

Honestly have notice 0 problem. And have played all of the games available for hours.

Was playing Mario sunshine from the Mario 3d collection yesterday and it was a bit of a shock to go back to 30 or 50 fps rather than smooth 60 like everything else on the switch 2. Hopefully when they add sunshine to switch 2 game cube version it’s 60fps minimum!

Can't say I noticed anything wrong myself.

@Blofse It's going to be straight emulation so it's going to be 30. It's what the game caps out at (though it is natively made to run 60, what it ran at during previews of it), it's one of the consequences of the game being as rushed as it was.

I haven't played that much NGC yet on the S2 but I had no issues.

@Pillowpants
I had also no issues but I also didn't play online.
They are not going to fix online play and that for a very easy reason: they would need to change to dedicated servers and thats really expensive.

I haven’t run into any issues with this myself and I've been having a blast! I'm sure the issues are there though. And let’s be real, most people are just going to kick back and enjoy it casually.

For the die-hard purists out there, I doubt they'd even touch the Switch 2 for this. They’re probably still rocking the original consoles, and more power to them!

The stick calibration issue and imput lag are a real problem but the good news is that it is probably not too much of a hassle to fix.

They want to tell people the experience is close to the real deal, even selling you the OG controller so they want you to believe it is authentic. That's why it is important that they fix those things.

@Medic_alert Which could have been avoided if Nintendo had pulled their fingers out of their behinds and just re-release the HD version on the Switch consoles!

Both HD remakes of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were done so well and it's quite mind boggling as to why they still haven't been ported over.
They deserve to be ported over, so a vastly larger audience can experience these excellent games in HD!

@Jeronan worth remembering that there has never been any confirmation that those ports exists and it was all rumours and wishful thinking.

Nintendo released 122 games in the Switch era so were pretty darn busy!

I just fired up Wind Waker for the first time and these issues are way more obvious than I expected. I'm usually completely oblivious to lemme issues like this. But more importantly, why didn't the Switch ever get WW & TP HD? This makes no sense! They're both so good!

I sometimes wonder if there's a "expert burnout" effect in gaming. I mean, when you get too good in seeing and understanding the technical side of games, you kinda loose part of enjoyment of actually JUST PLAYING. As they say, you see trees and not a forest. You see an ugly texture, a dropped frame, an input lag...but you miss the overall experience of firing up Wind Waker or Soul Calibur 2, or, say, Perfect Dark JUST the way it was back in the day. Even with the CRT scanlines! I literarilly time-travelled. This is where joy is, I dare say, not in a odd dropped frame.

@Anti-Matter iirc, the processor for the Wii had to GC one baked into it (either that or the GPU). That was the usual MO for BC, and it just worked because it was adding the new systems' logic. On the other hand, the Switch 2 doesn't even have the Switch 1's architecture details, so they have to emulate the calls for the games to even work – let alone the rest of the company's other platforms.

Both GameCube and the Switch 2 screen looks fantastic and play great to me. Some of these tech nerds are quite annoying with their hyperbole and nitpicking. I wonder if they even enjoy playing games?

@Suketoudara it's constructive criticism and if there's room for improvement that will benefit the user, it's a good thing we have the likes of MVG (and he very much enjoys games I can assure you, but he has a lot of experience in the field and does a lot of tech stuff).

The main thing I noticed personally was the stick sensitivity in F-Zero. Although I don't know if that's purely a GameCube emulation thing, I find the sensitivity of the joystick is also really over the top in menus in something like Yakuza 0 (I have to use the D-Pad to navigate properly).

@LazyDaisy honestly, Nintendo should hire the developers of dolphin, they seem to care more about emulation. Nintendo always seem to do a half assed job with it these days

@cyberrb25
That means Wii machine is still the perfect machine to play GameCube games in physical, not to mention the niche GameCube games that will never get included in NSO such as Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix, Movie to Video games (Robots,Nickelodeon games, Shark Tale, Disney games, etc) due to licensing issue.

@Blofse except they won't. Sunshine is 30fps originally and Nintendo won't change that framerate when they add it to the NSO subscription.

He mentions in the video the input delay on NSO is 7-8 frames, on PC emulation is 4-5 frames and on original hardware is 3-4 frames.
That sounds like a very minimal difference to me TBH.

Edit: Although in the video he does say the emulation is great just not as perfect as it could be

I've been bouncing around comparing Soul Calibur 2 (my favorite fighting game of all time) across various platforms, and in my purely subjective, unscientific opinion the emulation is absolutely fantastic!

I've been comparing SC2 on:
1.) NSO with a Pro Controller 2 (offline play only so far)
2.) GameCube connected via component cable to Retrotink 5x with Wavebird controller
3.) PS2 connected via component cable to Retrotink 5x with Logitech Wireless controller

Haven't had the chance to test the Xbox version of the game yet, but I'm having a BLAST with SC2 on NSO and I keep exclaiming out loud to my wife that it's "practically a remaster!'

@BuddhaBabboo Been playing a load of SC2 as well to unlock all of the characters.... aaah that nostalgia feeling of unlocking characters in a fighting game by playing the game rather than getting out credit cards and buying season passes.

But I agree with you, when you look at the upressing done to the backgrounds like stain glass windows and other area's it's amazing just how good it looks. Still though... have a good few missions left to unlock Lizardman!

Anyone who plays F-Zero GX a bit more seriously will notice increased heaviness / delay / sensitivity.
A CRT TV is not a good option for everyone, some people don't have enough space at home and the higher resolution improves image quality anyway.
Nintendo should just fix this.

I noticed the input delay in Wind Waker on day 1 of the NS2 and it's been making me hesitant to replay. GX did feel a bit snappier in comparison and I appreciate the widescreen setting going to full 16:9.

What I'm still puzzled by is Nintendo not letting us black out the pillarbox bars on the sides of NSO. I'd much rather see pure black than the weird dotted gray pattern, which is a constant reminder I'm playing through an app instead of just seeing the game. Why can't that be a toggle? (I'm not asking to stretch 4:3 games, just to hide the graphical border.)

@CapitalQ Yeah, I also worry that the little profile icon that's always showing in the same place whenever playing a game on any of the NSO emulators is going to cause burn-in on my OLED TV, wish they'd fade it out after a bit and only show it when you bring up the menu or something.

I dunno im playing f zero no problems.

@Medic_alert There were quite quick with porting over Mario Kart 8 from the WiiU with a HD upgrade.

Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD were excellent remakes on the WiiU and deserved to be ported over, since the WiiU sales were so abysmal and thus so few got to enjoy those amazing HD remakes.

@Anti-Matter That was GameCube hardware

@Jeronan but MK8 was only available on WiiU. WW was already on GC and TP on Wii and GC.

Not saying they shouldn't or should but I feel it is understandable why it hasn't happened.

The input latency is unacceptable. I opened up Wind Waker, tried the file selection screen, next thing was I cancelled NSO. I have zero confidence that Nintendo will fix this. Tried F-Zero X (N64) recently and that was bad as well, and has been out for years.

@Medic_alert Sigh. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were remade in HD and released on the WiiU.
They were NOT ports of the old original games running in Classics emulation mode.

Just like Mario Kart 8, Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD were native WiiU releases.

That input lag is wild upto 133ms is insane for any game

@Jeronan I am aware but they are still the same game effectively despite the higher resolution and minor changes.

@Stormcloudlive This exactly! Nostalgic for the days when unlocks were baked into the game. This is the main reason I haven’t bought Smash Bros Ultimate.

I've tried all the emulated systems for the first.time on S2 and even the MD and SNES emulation is awful. Jerky scrolling, poor latency and that's before we approach the N64 and GC emulation.

It isn't worth paying for as it currently stands.

@Medic_alert On your SteamDeck?! Are you one of those emulating people? For shame.

@N8tiveT3ch I do emulate games from time to time. Tends to be things I have bought in the past and or that would be prohibitively expensive to source 2nd hand.

I don't see any issue with doing this to be honest.

I am subscribed to the expansion pak and have owned many Nintendo games multiple times. If Nintendo give me the option to buy the games or add them to the NSO service I will play them there.

But if not then i'm not doing anyone any harm.

@Medic_alert Nope nope nope nope Nintendo told me its bad. So its bad.

Reporting no problems over my end guys.

@N8tiveT3ch ah and there was me thinking you were being serious for a second... silly me!

Kind of wild my 6 year old offbrand Chinese budget phone with can emulate GameCube games at 60fps upscaled but the Switch 2...has input lag problems with running them native?

I guess they never got a chance to sue Dolphin emulator and steal their source code like they did with yuzu.

I have no interest in the GameCube emulator, because there are no game that interests me. When some good games appear, I might show some interest.

So it's not just my imagination, then. Every time I boot up Wind Waker, it takes me a couple minutes to get used to the rather significant input delay.

Input lag, but why have 4 player online in 2 player matches this just creates more lag.

@karatekid1612 then why get the switch 2?
Not trying to troll just want to understand why I should play less than perfect emulated games on GameCube for $449 as opposed to playing perfectly emulated GameCube games for free... Just saying

I mean the N64 app had issues when it launched, they patched it up a fair bit since then, even if sometimes new releases have their own problems.

They'll patch this at some point.

I still wonder how u could give a good score to SoulCalibur 2 NSO without even talking about the input lag issue.

Although I play f zero on low levels. Lets see if indeed nintendo keeps improving them …

Btw retro game corps just released a video praising the gamecube emulation…

@Anti-Matter They were native, that’s why. Too young to remember the ”Two GameCubes taped together” jibes?

@vyseofhr
I have no idea about GameCube trivia or whatever as I didn't grow up with GameCube games.

While one can definitely notice a small amount of lag, it certainly isn’t insurmountable. I just finished beating every cup on Master Class the other day and it was tough, but doable. Now working on Story Mode again, and that’s just rough in general.

That said, I would love it to be optimized to make it easier to concentrate on just playing instead of dedicating a little energy to accounting for the small delay, so we’ll see!

Either way, I’m just happy to have GX available to play at all. Truly heavenly.

@Member_the_game glad you get to try them out now.

A note about GC on Wii. There's a GVG video stating that the best way to play GC is actual on Wii. I haven't tested it myself, but it always struck me as odd.

And people will stick to the "I don't notice anything, therefore the issue doesn't exist" bull crap mentality

@cyberrb25 It is pretty interesting, the Wii's GPU apparently had slight differences that (coincidentally) causes Wind Waker to crash when you open up the map in a dungeon.

Nintendo fixed the crash by patching the game each time the disc is loaded into the console, replacing the faulty GX function with a Wii-compatible one, I guess.

@Lizuka That's a problem with the emulator itself. Those problems exist on the Switch, too.

@obijuankanoobie Playing GC games on Wii gives you the higher quality graphics mode without having to buy the insanely expensive cable that you'd have to on an actual GC. (the GC cable had some proprietary component in it that prevented cheap third-party cables from being made. But on Wii, component cables were easily found during its lifespan.)

I think its also bad Gamecube isn't on the original Switch when it could definitely handle it. For paying for the same tier you shouldn't get less

It's nice to have gamecube emulation but I don't think its the full fat experience of playing it on original hardware like the gamecube and wii on a CRT or maybe a wii u on a plasma TV as many plasma TVs had very low input lag due to the extremely responsive display. Zelda Windwaker was amazing in HD on wii u but did introduce a little lag compared to the original version is I remember rightly. This was probably just hdmi issues.

The Switch 2 panel seems poor and feels like a hindrance to running classic games that require low input lag to get the best experience.

@Anti-Matter duh, I wonder why...

The analogue sensitivity is a real problem. Hopefully they will fix that because Link doesn't move as smoothly as he should. At this I thought it was input lag but it's the controller.

The problem is definitely there. Some people may not notice and still enjoy the games, which is valid, but the problem is there. I'm sure you would notice the difference if they fixed it.

For me the input delay and stick sensitivity are very noticeable. Games that require timing and precision, like F-Zero - which gets pretty difficult in story mode - don't feel nearly as good as they should. N64 games also share the same problem.

I'm talking about single player, sadly, the online netcode is another can of worms. I think we should expect more from the service we're paying for.

Once again Nintendo give long term fans the middle finger.