The upcoming LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga game has just received its release date of April 5th, delighting fans that have been waiting for news for a while now. After all, the game — which includes playable levels and scenarios from all nine films in the mainline Star Wars saga — has been delayed three times in total.
However, according to a report from Polygon, it's not a time to celebrate for the people who worked on the game, who have been reportedly suffering under the effects of crunch at developer TT Games the last five years on this project — and others since the company's founding in 2005.
Former and current employees, speaking anonymously to Polygon's Jack Yarwood, detail a toxic work culture at TT Games, the use of "soft-spoken blackmail", and in particular, the managing style of Jon Burton, co-founder and creative director at the UK-based studio until his departure when Warner Bros purchased the company in 2007.
As for the crunch culture itself — specifically around the latest Skywalker Saga project — it reportedly arose from multiple sources: Employees not being properly compensated for overtime, bosses pushing for extra features as part of their "Strive for 85" mantra (in reference to Metacritic's averaged scores), being pressured into working additional hours by vague threats of "consequences", and bullying being "commonplace".
“The director would request new mechanics on a whim, then ask that they be changed, whilst never actually fixing anything that really mattered. Read every review of a Lego game. They always say the same [things]: ‘Platforming is pants, the camera is terrible, no online co-op.’ So let’s add a God of War-style combat tree! 5-year-olds will love it.”
-- A former employee of TT Games, speaking to Polygon
The Skywalker Saga was also developed on a new engine called NTT, supposedly favoured by management as its use would avoid paying Epic licensing costs for Unreal Engine, which was overwhelmingly the preferred choice among employees. As with learning any new (and unfinished, unreliable) software, there were multiple issues and struggles on top of having to make the game itself.
Polygon's report mentions specifically that women in TT Games were also subject to bullying, harassment, an insidious pay gap, and lack of female leadership. Several high-profile hires at the studio — including former Sony Worldwide Studios VP Michael Denny as vice president and studio head, and then his former Sony co-workers Eric Matthews and Mark Green, as director of game development and head of game respectively — did little to ameliorate this.
These reported conditions apparently didn't begin with this project, but have been an issue for employees since the beginning. Company founder Burton would allegedly "yell at staff to return to their desks if they tried to leave work on time". According to a former employee, even in the early days of the studio, crunch was "premeditated [...] because of the type of games we made: movie tie-ins, and kids’ stocking fillers. They all had deadlines dictated by a holiday event or the release of some film".
Quality Assurance, in particular, are reported to have been treated poorly — an unfortunately common occurrence in game studios where QA is often seen as a "lesser" role — and refused access to large parts of the building without supervision, which meant that they were unable to visit HR without accompaniment. (This action was apparently taken after a Wii U GamePad-related leak that came from TT's QA department in 2012).
“People were worn out, worked down, mentally and physically ill because of the pressure. TT always said, ‘We’re going to change,’ but we all knew it was never gonna happen. It was always a case of, Just one more game and then we do it differently.”
-- A former employee of TT Games, speaking to Polygon
The current state of things with The Skywalker Saga just three months from release (barring another delay) is that at least 40 employees have left TT Games since the start of 2021. Many of these employees have since joined Jon Burton's new studio, 10:10 Games; others have gone to work at other studios in the UK.
Polygon's report suggests that things may be changing at the studio. For instance, "multiple sources close to the company say TT will no longer be using NTT on future projects," choosing to work with the Unreal Engine as many called for in the first place — vindication for those people, but also a sign that the project needn't have been as difficult as reported. "Current employees also say that in the last few months, the company has started paying closer attention to, and limiting, the amount of overtime that staff can work."
Unfortunately, that doesn't change how The Skywalker Saga was reportedly built: on the personal and mental sacrifices of the development team during management-mandated and long-term crunch.
[source polygon.com]
Comments 137
Oh noooo. I’ve been a long time lover of TT Games’ output as well. I wonder if the permanent deadlines coming from WB expecting a LEGO game every year caused this.
Every developer is crunching at this point, idk how this is going to be fixed 😥
I dunno. This game keeps getting delayed. Maybe it’s more we just have to ship something.
What kind of article is this? Complaints of a guy back in 2005--2007 who runs another place that former employees went to but this article yells toxic toxic toxic.
I could see how this game took so long. They basically had to recreate the entire Lego game mechanics with a new engine while also recreating both of the entire Trilogies (Original and Prequel), then ontop of that create the entire New Trilogy. That's not even including the tons of extra side content. This game is massive and took a ton of effort to release...on multiple platforms...in the middle of a pandemic.
Hats off to them and yea it sucks that it was delayed, but it sucks even more they were subjected to crunch culture. Hopefully game development during these times gets better managed with working from home while not stressing the developers out.
Damn, I've always been a TT fan and this game looks crazy good. Bullying in the work place is just gross, I'll probably still buy the game but something has to be done about this massive rise in crunching lately..
I don't even know what to say. What the hell man.
What the heck man! Really? Like come on! I have been a fan of TT games since the star wars games.
Yet another company with skeletons in there closet.
Sad to read this after waiting so long for this game and being so excited for it. By the sounds of it, it may run terribly if quality control wasn’t used at all. Still, maybe the next three months and this report will give it a nice finish rather than more full steam ahead production nonsense.
The Quartering insists that “crunch” does not exist.
also I've been around some lame QA teams that do nothing all week and then come Friday post all kinds of bugs to fix so they get weekend overtime pay when it could of been done during the week.
Toxic workplace articles never talk about crappy employees.
Pretty sad management is subject to conditions they treat the workers. Maybe if they got the same back they might adjust their attitude and make a more inclusive workplace/collaboration team. Using UnReal engine wasn't the problem it was the Management that was the problem.
Removed - trolling/baiting
@SonOfVon why so insensitive? You have no idea what was going on in there life, i'm sure if they could, they would.
lol Time for Microsoft to bring freedom to TT Games and purchase them for Xbox Gaming.
Is anyone out there having a perfect life where they only get positive feedback from everyone in their life - including their bosses - and never have to face any sort of uncomfortable situations?
Cuz sometimes these complaints just sound to me like people that are struggling to deal with real life
Very sad to hear this, especially that it has been going on since the mid 2000s. Looks like the industry at large is just more and more awful to work in by the day.
Oh, come on, TT. Stop crunching your employees and take the time to make a polished game.
@Yodalovesu Just cause it's common doesn't make it good. Some games will have crunch in the last few weeks before release, but when studios make that the norm employees are more than justified in complaining.
Edit: By norm, I mean crunching all year, not all developers crunching before release.
Every industry has moments of crunch time.
Doesn't make it right but that's how things are when a deadline must be met.
You can either step up, or look for another job.
I will also add that if a company has a ridiculously high turnover rate they generally look into why and how to correct it
@Snatcher Everything has some bugs, but I'm not shocked annual releases have more. Even good code will fail sometimes, but anything rushed out likely has bad code. A proprietary engine that was rushed could make the new game even buggier. In house engines can be good, but never when they are rushed out the door.
@ChakraStomps,
Yes an article devoid of any context, sure there will be issues with lots of crunch deadlines, but we only ever get one side in all of this.
@Vincent294 That is true, Now that I think about it, the fact that it doesn't have more bugs is really surprising, But with they new engine coming in, and its rushed?
Edit: I will probably delete my comment, as it adds nothing to this, and its sounds silly not that I read it, every game has bugs LOL.
Seems like this is about arthur parsons who left Tt before the new lego star wars.
Edit: read over the john burton part.
@johnvboy I agree. Why didn't the writer of this article request a comment from the guy they named and dragged through the mud? Balanced reporting too hard? Seems they just copy pasted parts of Polygon's article?
So... this game has been delayed multiple times. Employees have been put under intense pressure. During a pandemic no less. And now that it finally has a release date. We're urged to boycott the game? Jesus christ... give these guys a break. If I was an employee of this company, this article and others like it would destroy me. Like, I'd seriously need therapy.
How about instead of saying "it's not a time to celebrate". We actually DO celebrate all the hard work that's gone into this game. And say something nice for once. I hope this game does well, I really do. These articles do not help
@Yorumi yeah, and if they want to remain anonymous that says it all honestly. Like we have NO idea of the situation. Could just be one guy who got fired. We don't know. So let's not grab our pitchforks. Thousands of people worked on this game. Let their work be recognised. After all, the company is them. Not the few people on top. It's not a company exploiting their employees. The employees ARE the company. So everyone saying "gosh I hate TT now". Keep this stuff in mind. And keep in mind that these guys have been working RIDICULOUSLY hard to get this game done.
Well, this has knocked my hype for this game down by a few pegs. It was on my pre-order list after seeing this morning's trailer, but now it's on my "wait for a review" list.
Hearing stuff like this makes me thankful to have the job I have now. My first job was super pressure-intensive but my current one is a lot more flexible and respectful of us as both employees and humans in general.
My dream in early college was to work for a big game development company but I kept hearing about all of the toxic stuff at the majority of them. Plus I’d have to move across the country, away from all of my friends and family. Ended up deciding I’d take more general engineering jobs for local companies and while the first job was pretty toxic, the one I’m at now is amazing. Plus I’m doing my own independent game development on the side, all when and how I want.
I really hope the higher ups at these game companies can be more respectful of their employees. Having people in both financial and status power positions can lead to corporate greed… and that negatively impacts both us as consumers and the developers making the games.
"The Skywalker Saga was also developed on a new engine called NTT, supposedly favoured by management as its use would avoid paying Epic licensing costs for Unreal Engine, which was overwhelmingly the preferred choice among employees. "
When you choose to use one product simply to avoid paying the costs associated with using an alternative better product, you are doing something wrong.
@Yorumi Yup. Polygon aren’t so much games journalists as they are social activists. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some kernel of truth here, because frankly game development in general is a harsh endeavor and most studios suffer from that to some degree, but I’m sure it’s not being fairly represented by outlets like polygon, kotaku etc.
@Scapetti No doubt, I'm still going to get the game, because you had all these people work so damn hard on it, and if this whole story, turn's out not to be as bad, Then please be so.
1. Source: Polygon
2. Anonymous former employee
3. Has only one side of the story covered
4. Very little context on what actually happened
Yeah sorry. You need a lot more then this rubbish to be the next Activision/Blizzard
@Snatcher imagine if people refused to watch The Shining because of what happened with Shelley Duvall, or with James Cameron's The Abyss. Or Spielberg after The Twilight Zone Movie disaster. Cancel culture would have prevented these great filmmakers from ever working again. And like, I'm not saying what these guys did was okay. But it's a strange world we live in right now. Whedon did nothing compared to these guys and yet he's been cancelled. I'm glad we live in a world where people are standing up for themselves but boycotting stuff is not the way forward. Do buy the game guys. It doesn't mean you approve of the work conditions. It means you support all the work they've put into it. If I did all that work under that intense pressure and no one even bought it... well, you can finish that sentence how you like
Here's hoping that all this hard and dirty work pays off. I don't want to see all the crap they had to endure go to absolute waste because of very poor management and work environment.
This article is dangerous.
Probably an Unpopular Opinion: When we only hear from people who are former employees or people who work there now and are unhappy, it should always be taken with a grain of salt when they make statements that describe how "everyone" felt when working there or how "everyone" feels working there still. It's difficult to see what is bias and what is reality for all employees versus the ones who were or are disgruntled.
I think a good argument fully recognizes and appreciate attempts to change despite being potentially misguided, and I think a bad argument paints everything they do as bad and provides no hope things will ever change for the better. This seems to be the former.
@Scapetti Boycotting to far in my opinion, when others have done much worse, got a slap on the wrist.
I think people should get the game anyway, and like other's have said, it could not be fact, as it is pretty one sided.
To anyone who tries to spin this report as "dangerous," you wanna know what's actually dangerous?
Mandatory overtime/crunch work, and unfair treatment of women and minorities.
TT and Warner Bros are not immune to criticism or investigation.
No co. is perfect. That is not an excuse for poor working conditions, or a poor working environment. It's just to say that businesses need to make sure their employees are in a healthy environment. Not necessarily comfortable, just healthy, which also means safe. Realistically, stuff goes on daily throughout all co.s that never reaches others' ears.
I still plan on purchasing the title. Like always, I will first be checking reviews, and such. I don't just purchase games, without seeing if I'd like it, or the game is playable.
Unfortunately that’s the career they have chosen , deadlines have to be met. All jobs are the same these days , if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen 😂
All we can do is pray for the indies
@At_Artful just not scott c
@CharlieGirl I don't think it's dangerous, but it would be irresponsible to base our actions as consumers solely on the opinions of disgruntled employees and former employees that decided to speak in such a one-sided manner.
From what was printed in this article and the Polygon article, they only have bad things to say about the management. Not even a "they had good intentions, but ultimately failed" kind of statement, these quotes would have you believe they were all bad all the time and there is no hope for the company.
Opinions this bleak and one-sided should be taken with a large grain of salt.
It seems every workplace out there typically has some type of crunch. Where I work in IT, the crunch rolls around every three weeks or so, as well as any outage or planned maintenance, and or after hours support calls. For me it's just part of the job, yet for others that have come and gone they typically either take it or leave it. I suppose it is what it is. This report seems a bit dated, but could still be common. Sad to hear if true, I've enjoyed pretty much every single title with my kids and look forward to this one as well. The wait looks to have been worth it.
@Yorumi The media doesn't hold the power, the readers do. If readers choose to believe biased opinions as if they were facts, as much as I would disagree with this, that is their right.
Everything written and reported by news outlets should be subject to criticisms and scrutiny. Not because I feel they may be deliberately lying or trying to control the narrative, but because they could actually believe it's the truth when reporting it and then later finding it wasn't actually true. Just because some news outlets lie and manipulate stories, this should not automatically mean all of them do this in bad faith, human error is inescapable, and this goes for both readers and news outlets. Both are responsible.
As soon as I read polygon my brain turns off.
@Astral-Grain Or maybe, it's just that bad.
@Vonsparrow No. Wrong. Bad take.
Just because something is common, that does not mean it's something that should be accepted. No deadline is as important as treating workers well, in any industry.
Poor working conditions must ALWAYS be spoken up against.
@AmplifyMJ Interesting choice of words...🤔
@KateGray I feel like there is too much drama content. It's really putting me off the website. I know I can just not click on it but is there something that can be done? I come here for Nintendo news and often instead I see gossip that riles people up in the comments. Like maybe there can be an "anything goes" section of the website while keeping the rest of the website pure and Nintendo related. I just feel like the heart of this website got lost somewhere. I know it's hard to know what will cause controversy in the comments but when posting up an article I feel like there should be a pause. A "should this be posted on a website about the latest Nintendo information" pause. I feel like sometimes there is a rush to post content without thought and I'm not sure why because we get like 30 articles a day. Why is there such a push for constant content? You guys need to take it easy.
I genuinely don't know if you guys do it on purpose. I really don't like the way this website is heading and I've said it before as have others
How do movies come out on time? Maybe it has something to do with unions preventing such gross mismanagement? I'm sure it happens in all industries, but the video game industry seems systemically broken. I can't imagine anybody but investors and managers are to blame. And since these people all look and speak and act the same way, I think we know what the problem is. We need unions and we need real leadership.
So, I'm the only one upset that after 3 delays they are finally putting out a Star Wars game on April 5th, and they couldn't be bothered to wait 1 more month and do the right thing by releasing it on May 4th? 😁
Since TT appears to be UK based, it would be interesting to see if they are breaking the working time directive, or thr health or safety in the workplace act.
From what I've read union representation seems lacking in games companies. BECTU might cover them
@Scapetti I could understand having that view about some articles but this is actual news about a big game that's coming to the Switch, of course it should be reported on.
@Dogorilla it's not news, it's gossip. If it were news it would be posted on official Nintendo pages like their facebook etc. it would also be on unofficial sites like the Nintendo subreddit. If it doesn't belong in either of those places it also doesn't belong here IMO. News should be verifiable and factual
I think that the current generation of working class out there in the world right now think that this sort of thing is new. The reality is that working has sucked for ever.
The big difference between the current generation's workforce and that of a couple decades ago is that back in the day, people just kept their mouths shut and did their job until such time that they found a better job, and then they flipped off their boss, told them where to stick their head, and walked out the door strutting like they just won the lottery.
Today's workforce thinks that every time something happens that they don't like, it is suddenly news worthy. Sorry. It's not. You have a job. Congratulations for finally figuring out that having a job SUCKS.
My advice to you is simple. Start investing every dollar you can in to stocks, crypto, collectibles, etc. That way, you can retire in your 40s while everybody else that didn't do that works well in to their late 60s and early 70s before retiring.
Welcome to the real world.
@Scapetti You do understand that precisely because of the pressure and attitudes described in this piece, employees are often reluctant to come forward and speak out about it? Hence the need to remain anonymous? There's clearly something amiss at TT Games (the delays and the decision to shift away from Unreal Engine and then back again indicates that). These reports are part of that story.
If we were only reporting official "facts" then the site would be an endless procession of sanitised press releases, which I'm sure you wouldn't want, either.
@ChakraStomps @Scapetti and others. This is a report based on a feature published on Polygon. It doesn’t include every single quote from Polygon’s article because it would be impractical and, frankly, impolite to strip every single quote from the original article and reproduce the lot. We’d encourage you to read the original story for the most possible context and hear voices from many of the people involved. As you’ve read above, several TT leavers have gone to work for Burton’s new studio, which also suggests something about him and his management style.
On the anonymity of sources as an indicator or reliability, that’s just inaccurate, isn’t it. Quality journalism of all kinds frequently relies on sources speaking on condition of anonymity, commonly for fear of reprisal or for legal reasons that would otherwise prevent them talking. To suggest a story is immediately invalid simply because quotes are from anonymous sources is nonsense.
Finally, to suggest that it would only be ‘news’ if Nintendo posted about it on their official channels is, quite obviously, ludicrous. I’m going to assume that’s a joke of some sort.
In addition to all the usual feel-good programming and gaming coverage we publish (the stuff we absolutely love reading and producing which forms the heart of the site) we will continue to report on stories big and small like this one that gives insight to the blood, sweat and tears — positive and negative — that goes into making the games we love.
If commenters can’t accept this and are unable to either converse politely or keep quiet, we’ll be forced to lock the thread. I’d much rather leave the comments open, so please consider carefully what you’re posting and make sure it conforms to our Community Rules before hitting the reply button. 🙏
@Damo no, I actually WOULD want that. That is exactly what I want. Press releases about the latest games, and people commenting about whether they're excited about said games. I really REALLY am not interested in the drama stuff!
Reviews for games, and the occasional retro review. Maybe even some articles about some hidden gems both modern and classic. An article about the NES Gremlins 2 for example, about Sunsoft's music in NES games. Random stuff like that.
Easter eggs, tid bits, all that lovely stuff. Articles about Itoi, Yokoi etc. things that inspired Miyamoto. A deep dive into Donkey Kong Country. THAT is what I would want from a Nintendo website. Not this drama stuff with everyone getting angry in the comments.
That you think I'd be bothered by a website full of press releases shows that you really don't know what Nintendo fans want D: we're not like the xbox and playstation guys. We play to have fun, we play games like Mario for pete's sake.
It's a Nintendo website. It makes MUCH more sense to see an article about Mole Mania than about TT Games working conditions. Let other websites cover that
@dartmonkey not a joke, see above about what I'd actually like to see on this website. And if anyone has any suggestions for a website that DOES cover what I want. Please let me know, thank you
@Yorumi I can't blame a news outlet for reporting a story that is obviously interesting to their audience, especially when it relates to a game coming to the Switch, the basis for this website. I can't even blame the readers who believe the article (or Polygon's) is completely factual and speak out against the company. It's their right to form their opinions this way just like it's my right to see it as biased and incomplete. We cannot force people to think the way we do, we just have to trust they want to seek the truth and make their own judgements.
I can't speak for Polygon's approach to this story, but at least Kate did her best to say these are all reports and according to the reports, things at the company are bad for the employees. She never said this is all true facts and you should boycott the game, it's the readers who came to these conclusions, and they are responsible too.
If a later story comes out from NL asking readers if they will boycott the game via a poll, it's not because they're shaping the narrative, it's because they're reading the comments and are painfully aware how many people are upset because of this. You and I may not enjoy articles like this, but clearly others are interested, and we cannot blame them for giving audiences what they want.
@Scapetti https://www.gamespress.com/
@dartmonkey Did you read what I said, because that is not at all what I described. The fact that you said "and others" should demonstrate that there are a LOT of us who feel this way. But whatever, do what you want I guess. Be disrespectful to the people commenting. That's fine. Have a nice day
@Astral-Grain you say "clearly others are interested" but I'm genuinely not sure if the majority are. I mean I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I've seen countless articles on nintendolife where the comments are basically saying "what is this" and "why is this here". This website wasn't always like this. Did it come under new ownership or something?
@Scapetti I don't know and it frankly doesn't concern me.
I don't mean this harshly, I mean if you're genuinely upset about article like this, you should distance yourself from that which makes you upset. You can't control the narrative any more than they can, people believe what they believe. At the end of the day, it's the people reading or watching the news that decide what they believe after digesting it.
After reading it over again, I don't know what to believe. Is this an absolutely awful isolated incident or has this been building for a long time? I'm really conflicted on what to believe since it seems every bit of evidence conflicts with at least something else stated beforehand. This whole thing is honestly just a mess.
@Yorumi I'm just completely upset about what this website has become. I feel like this last couple of years sooo many articles I've seen have made me angry and shoot off in the comments. And so many comments being removed by mods for not being constructive. SOO many. It's not normal to have 20 comments removed in one article. That's not normal guys! And we're not the problem! The writers here constantly disagreeing with the rest of the community and just generally being so out of touch with the readers. What happened? What happened to this site? it really makes me sad
@Yorumi I didn't mean to indicate all a journalist should care about is what interests their audience, there is still a matter of responsibility to only report that which appears to be truthful and fair at the time of reporting.
If a journalist reports on a topic they believe is true and fair with the information they are given at the time, what else can they do to ensure it doesn't later turn out to be false? That's not to say this article is false, that remains to be seen in my opinion. But you're asking news outlets to have the clairvoyance to never be wrong about things when it's impossible given that all humans are imperfect and flawed.
If you followed your own standards for what a journalist should be and the high responsibility of impacting readers, I don't think you would ever feel confident enough to produce a single article.
@Bizzyb I’m just not sure I like how it’s written, it seems to draw conclusions based on… not much really. Some will read this article and decide against purchasing this game on the strength of it alone. That’s the world we live in. I’m not coming to any conclusions, because there isn’t enough to go on. But this article feels like it’s doing the opposite.
Hmmm I’ll read the polygon article before I make a judgement but I don’t respect polygon at all and their virtue signalling is very very obvious sometimes. Like I said I will read that first but I am suspect on this one.
@Yorumi Our conclusions are the same: This is an article reporting on anonymous opinions about a company.
Where our views divert is that you think it's irresponsible for a news outlet to give anonymous people a voice simply because they prefer to remain anonymous and therefore cannot be cited. Anonymous voices should be scrutinized like any other report, no doubt, but does that mean we should stop listening to them or reporting them completely? I think this would be a mistake.
If one news outlet released a deepfake video of a celebrity doing something illegal, would you then assume all videos in news articles are probably false? Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's likely.
If you assume bad faith from any news outlet, NL and Polygon included, you should stop reading the articles they produce. I have no reason to believe this article was intentionally misleading or false, even if I'm not fully sold on the narrative, it's still what they believe is fair and true.
My criticisms and potential doubts are aimed at the quotes from the former/current employees, I think NL is just a messenger.
@nofriendo Huh? Movies are delayed all the time and They don't usually get hard release dates until post production, i.e. after all of the hard work is done like filming and editing.
Releasing a movie and videogame (on time) are two entirely different processes and planning schedules
I was so hyped, too!
This puts a little bit of a damper on things, but I’m still buying the game. It wasn’t war crimes that were committed, it was just burn out, which is still NOT okay, but it’s not the end of the world .
@AmplifyMJ I hear you but there seems to be some legitimacy especially considering how long it's taking ad how many delays.
That said, I really hope no one decides to boycott the game. That serves no purpose and only hurts the developers who put a ton of hard work and effort into making the game. I don't think this article will hurt the games sales...at least I hope not
@Bizzyb I’m not dismissing the allegations or concerns, I just didn’t really like this article, the tone of it, it’s implying guilt I feel. I was actually afraid to comment as it is extremely sensitive and it is a subject that needs tackling, I appreciate how we’ve interacted so thanks.
@Yorumi Anonymous sources are "the perfect cover?" for news outlets to write unverifiable lies?
Anonymous sources speaking out against a company just want their "15 minutes of fame"? How does an anonymous person become famous for talking about their terrible work experiences? What evidence do you have any one of these people were motivated by fame or attention?
What is the purpose of reading any news story if you go in assuming everyone mentioned and the people writing it are liars trying to deceive you? This sounds like paranoia to me.
I was following you up until those comments. I think think we've hit our limit on this conversation, and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day.
Well that might explain how a freaking Lego game got delayed so much.
@Yorumi your disbelief and inflexibility on the matter do not reflect the reality of a many poor employers. Labor regulators respond to outright abuses and violations. But outright violations are also known to many bad managers, so they’ll take micro-aggressive approaches. No one day breaks a law, but an accrued amount of pressure, manipulation, passive aggressiveness over the weeks and months creates a miserable situation that puts employees in the position of having to leave or go along with management’s suggestions that constantly stretch and exact what they can frim their workers. It’s legal to ask for a little more. It’s legal to manipulate and pressure for that little more too, and do it week after week, because the the thing being asked for didn’t break a law. But it’s abusive. Breaking trust in that way isn’t illegal, but it’s abusive.
@Yorumi I can only say that a lot of low-level aggression that makes people uncomfortable can be hard to report. It can absolutely be hard to report. And normally such abusers don’t go all in right away with full scale harassment one day. They start small and get to know you, work within what they think is your tolerance and then stretch things. It’s subtle and makes it hard to combat when you’re in that situation, because it creates psychological weakness and exhaustion
@Scapetti It's unfortunate what's happened to this website in recent years. It wasn't always buzzword-laden clickbait and barely relevant industry drama, with arrogant thirty-something nerd power trip authors fresh off of Twitter weakly arguing like teenagers with well-intentioned users for politely expressing their dissatisfaction with it all. It's hard not to check in once every blue moon for the unintentional humor. Embarrassing and very unfortunate.
@Menardi I miss fan sites of the 90s. We used to get some great stuff. And they'd share fan artwork and interesting random stuff. It was all so different to how it is now
@Menardi Maybe it's also embarrassing for someone who detests NL to continue to visit regularly and make dramatic comments that only serve to increase their web traffic.
Maybe yourself @Yorumi and @Scapetti can start a news outlet of your own. Really show them how it's done.
@Yorumi if you don’t relate that’s okay. If you’re not open to outside ideas, explanation, that’s the way it is. I type that because others will. Others know that kind of situation.
@Scapetti You and me both. These were the best of times and the worst of times, if certain writers are to be believed.
@Astral-Grain Yes, I also find viewpoints I personally disagree with embarrassing. This meaningless exchange aside, I wish you nothing but the best this year, hoping you have a peaceful 2022.
@Menardi Fair point, I wish you a successful and peaceful 2022 as well.
@Astral-Grain I would to be honest. I actually would. I've been told I'm very knowledgable about Nintendo's history. People have often said I should do videos or something. I just don't think I'd be committed to keep it going. There are too many other things I want to do.
I do wonder about this site, particularly when that writer linked me to their source for press releases. It makes you wonder if the writers here even have passion for what they do. And little things like saying Banjo is available when it isn't yet. There's just a lack of proofreading and care. Articles often being corrected after someone says something in the comments. And just generally, too much content in one day. It's no wonder they can't give each article enough care when there are over 30 posted a day. That's more than one article an hour! It's too much...
Quality over quantity, that's Nintendo's motto and so it should be a Nintendo site's too
Edit: Banjo actually is available now but it wasn't six hours ago when they said it was
So sad to see this happening at TT games. It feels like the whole industry is full of abuse.
I hope these reports lead to pressure on management to change how things are done.
Also slightly amusing to see some in the comments who don't seem to understand how journalism works.
I have no knowledge if crunching would be even an option to make "bigger and better" games. Is crunching the only way for devs to make games as big as these? In alternate reality, how would Nintendo's games be if they crunched? I'm sure Breath of the Wild was never born in crunching.
I've been thinking about this mostly because of how Pokémon games are made, many want them to be bigger and longer... in a development time of approximately 3 years.
Friendly reminder that an actual human being writes these articles, and sees every single comment calling them every name under the sun. Journalists don’t make a lot of money at all and work tirelessly since news never really stops. Can we stop treating them like crap? If you don’t like the site, nobody’s forcing you to comment.
I lived with someone who worked for TT on this game and I can confirm that it seemed like absolute hell.
Great piece @kategray, about a subject that needs more airtime precisely because it's so commonplace. As somebody once said, 'Crunch isn't a triumph of the workforce, it's a failure of the management.'
I can't help thinking that if people got as angry about crunch as they do about news articles about crunch, we'd have better working conditions already.
@Scapetti you know
if NintendoLife is bothering you THIS much, you could just
NOT be on NintendoLife.
seriously, you don't HAVE to visit a website if you don't like it.
@CharlieGirl you're a genius
Hey @Scapetti, I'm Anthony and if you didn't know I founded Nintendo Life back in 2005 as I wanted to create a gaming website that celebrated and covered all aspects of Nintendo and the cultural impact it has far and wide. That's where the "Life" bit came in.
I'm proud of the site that has been built over the years and whole heartily feel that topics like this are important for us to cover, I never wanted the site to be stale and just post official news, that's what the official Nintendo website is for. I wanted it to cover anything that Nintendo gamers would be talking about, as friends, and that's why to this day we still cover lots of opinion articles, polls and talking points.
It's clear from your comments that your vision for the website is different and that is absolutely fine. It's always interesting to hear how other people would approach running a site like this. The main thing is though that whilst you disagree with how we run our site, that doesn't mean we need to or want to change it to suit you better. That isn't meant to be disrespectful either. We always make our decisions on what we feel matches our vision for the site and the audience that reads it, as a whole, catering for specific feedback of individuals doesn't always solve anything and isn't sustainable.
There are many different Nintendo (and gaming) websites around and most of them approach things differently, I can totally respect that as each site owner will have their own vision, we wouldn't want every site to do things exactly the same way as each other.
If you believe strongly that things could or should be done differently, and there is an audience for that, I would encourage you to put that vision into action and create an outlet for it.
@nessisonett I wish I could like your comment twice. Thanks for the support.
@Menardi You're aware other websites exist, yes?
I don't really need to say much more here, as my colleague @antdickens has already hit the nail very firmly on the head, but just because you personally have an issue with the way things are on the site does not mean we're going to change - not when the vast majority of our readers are happy with how things are, and the site is growing and growing each year.
We take our jobs very seriously and pick and choose what we report on – but, as Ant says, we're not just a straight 'news outlet' and never have been (which makes your assertion that the site has 'changed' or 'gotten worse' puzzling – we've been doing what we do for 15 years) and we run other content related to Nintendo, such as culture pieces, humorous observations and much more besides.
If those don't sit well with you, then... don't read them? Click on the stories that do interest you. No one is expecting you to read 100% of what we post, that would be unrealistic.
And to second @nessisonett's comment, these articles aren't produced by robots – an actual person has put this piece together, so please refrain from hurling totally false insults in the comment section – unless, of course, you'd rather not be part of our community.
We have no issue with constructive feedback, but when you're reduced to insults ("arrogant thirty-something nerd power trip authors fresh off of Twitter"), then it sadly says more about you than the state of the site, I'm afraid.
Have a good one!
@antdickens Thank you, I actually really appreciate this reply and it does mitigate some concerns I had. I don't mind opinion pieces as such. Just sometimes some articles here can encourage a lot of drama in the comments. And I just hope this is learnt from in a positive way.
It has kind of felt recently to a lot of us that the site has been heading for a "we want drama for more clicks" type attitude. But I don't think this is intentional, it's probably just how different people write. I guess I just wanted more care to avoid this in future. I've also noticed some articles here get posted before they're ready. And it's like I said. I can understand why they're not ready due to the sheer amount of articles posted a day. But when basic factual information like whether Banjo is actually available yet or not gets missed. And there's opinion pieces in the same day that aren't entirely Nintendo related. It just makes me worry if anyone's even checking, you know? Like the mistake was up for the entire time until Banjo's actual release. I'd have just thought it would have been corrected during that time.
And I don't mean to tell you how the site should be run. It is of course only my opinion. But do people sign off on each other's work before publishing? If this isn't done already maybe it could be considered. I don't think your readers are desperate for articles at such a fast pace; a little more care would go a long way. And I'm aware I am speaking for others but I do think we'd appreciate less haste if it meant more accurate and carefully proofread information. A lot of the time it can just be the headline that's an issue rather than the content of the article itself.
Maybe over the years you've gathered a lot more new writers and so some new systems need to be in place that weren't before to keep things tight and controlled. I'm not sure. But thank you for a perfect response. I really appreciate it.
Also, just a random heads up for a potential news update (not sure if it warrants a whole article but it's something people will want to know). Ocarina of Time's water temple reflections were in fact fixed with the latest N64 NSO patch.
@Scapetti it's a team effort, and the editorial team is constantly discussing what should get covered next and how, headlines are often shared in our Slack channels for feedback or suggestions from others and likewise for proofreading. The team is human and therefore their motivations and topics of interest will shift on a daily basis, so what we decide to cover one day might not be the same as the next — there are a lot of variables at play. That's also what keeps the site interesting for readers and the staff.
Naturally, all writers want their article to be as good as it can be but the internet is also fast-paced plus we have the luxury of being able to update articles after initial publication which our forefathers with magazines did not. So if on rare occasions mistakes happen they are usually fixed swiftly and with a clear update.
I do feel it's a little dangerous to speak on behalf of others (eg. "a lot of us") as in my experience reading the comments it's a very small number of users that have these kinds of issues with what we do compared to the overall number of commenters and overall readers. Typically we'll do a reader survey to gather this kind of feedback but admittedly haven't done so in a little while.
@antdickens a reader survey is a good shout sorry for some of the ruder comments from others. People have struggle expressing themselves when they're upset and I think everyone's a little fragile in these times
On-topic: Maybe there's some credibility to this. I mean, I remember LEGO City Undercover on Wii U, despite being a game where Nintendo was involved, was not as optimized as other first-party games but nothing too bad. Meanwhile the Switch version doesn't mind crashing during normal gameplay.
I don't really play LEGO games outside of LCU (I'm more into the physical blocks though), but I've heard they sometimes need a little more time in the oven from a performance perspective.
@Scapetti I believe you are the only one in these comments that specifically called out the author Kate Grey just to tell her the content in her article is putting you off the website. I believe you also happen to be the only one who called out other NL staff when they patiently attempted to address your concerns. If anything, your actions have demonstrated how patient the NL staff are, despite their constant abuse from commenters such as yourself.
You don't need to apologize for other people's rude comments, just apologize for your own. You don't need to speak on others behalf, just speak for yourself. Quit while you're ahead.
@Astral-Grain I didn't specifically call out Kate. I only @ mentioned her because she wrote this article. It was to the staff and I was not singling her out. And as far as I'm aware I have been polite with my comments but I apologise if you feel differently. I don't know what abuse you are referring to. Why are you confronting me? I genuinely don't understand and I think there has been some miscommunication somewhere
@Damo And miss masterworks like these? To be serious, I don't think anyone wants to be insulting, we are all human and I'm sure each of you mean well, but there are legitimate issues many users have politely raised that continue to not only go unaddressed, which is one thing (I understand there is more money and traffic in clickbait and drama than there is in more substantial articles), but condescended to. It's difficult to more or less tell your readers in every other article "Go away, we don't want you anyway, and you're in the wrong for not liking our suddenly very different way of doing things" and not expect an appropriate response. I normally love NintendoLife and would like nothing more than to see a happy compromise.
You can use terms like "the majority of readers" all day long, and I'm sure the vast majority of NL traffic is completely fine with reading lower quality/tangentially-relevant-to-Nintendo buzzy content, but setting silly disagreements aside, there is no reason for site authors to be telling off readers in the comment section on every other article demanding they stop visiting the website, which is indeed genuinely petty, sets an unnecessarily confrontational tone, and is realistically never going to go uncriticized.
@Scapetti using polite words does not automatically imply politeness, because aggressively throwing accusations and assumptions about the staff of this website is most certainly NOT polite.
I've just seen Kate posted on twitter about me and others... that... is really not nice. @KateGray why? What did I do? So what if I say it's not Nintendo content and "can't you post about nice things". Why publicly humiliate me like that? We should feel free to comment on here without fear of that!
@antdickens I take great issue with this. I didn't notice it until now. I don't even know what to say. I feel really hurt and I don't know what I did to deserve that.
This isn't even the first time she's publicly complained about people here on her twitter. I was completely prepared to leave all this behind me but now I don't know what to think.
@CharlieGirl what aggressive accusations and assumptions are you referring to? I've apologised and I wasn't even aware I was being rude. What are you referring to? Please pinpoint because I am extremely confused right now
@Menardi I'm not actually all that interested in continuing this conversation, as I (and other staff) have said our piece. However, I do find it somewhat hypocritical that you've waded into this comments section with statements like "arrogant thirty-something nerd power trip authors fresh off of Twitter" yet you bemoan us defending our work as "unnecessarily confrontational"?
In short, we're always looking at ways to make NL better (that goes without saying) but not all feedback is worth following up on. You think our work is "lower quality/tangentially-relevant-to-Nintendo buzzy content", and we disagree. Not sure where else this conversation can go from there?
@Scapetti Just don't call them arrogant thirty-something nerd power trip authors fresh off of Twitter...
@Damo I'm sure you aren't. We aren't the ones insulting NL users on our social media, friend (I say this again as someone who otherwise loves NintendoLife. This discussion shouldn't be happening at all, and yet it is, and I'm sure it will be repeated by others in future articles). Can pretend to take the high ground all you like, it's sadly just not the case. The odd pointed comment here has nothing but the best intentions behind them. The same cannot be said for the conduct of your staff.
@Menardi I didn't do that! That wasn't me
Edit: I'm so confused, what is happening
@Scapetti This conversation is probably the first time I've spoken to you directly, but your presence in NL topics is impactful enough that I know you've called out Kate on numerous occasions, always to point out some mistake or to label an article as "clickbait." That's abusive. The comments aren't Yelp reviews for the articles, they're for discussing the topics.
You need to look at your history, look at your pattern, see that it's really not normal for 2 NL employees + the founder of NL to address you specifically to try and calm you down. Take responsibility and apologize genuinely, that's a good start. It's not other people in the comments, it's people like you that makes their jobs so difficult.
@Scapetti @Menardi I've seen the tweets in question and Kate doesn't insult anyone. She's perfectly entitled to blow off steam on her personal Twitter account, especially when the issue at hand here is people complaining that we are reporting on legitimate issues in the games industry.
@Astral-Grain dude! I don't just call her out. I've called out many of the staff here. The comments are for expressing your opinion and that's what I've been doing. If I've offended anyone I apologise but why are you coming at me like this?
Ant addressed my concerns and I appreciated it greatly. I've said nothing untoward in this whole thread that I'm aware. My intention was not to make anyone's lives more difficult. I only comment on threads that I have an issue with. I come on here daily. Kate posts here all the time. If I had issue with all her content I would have posted on all her content. I have no issue with her and I like a lot of the stuff she posts here. I don't know what you're seeing but it's not what I'm seeing.
@Scapetti There's no confusion: all the comments are right there for everyone to read. You've had multiple people here telling you what is upsetting about your commentary.
As said before, if the website NintendoLife is making you unhappy, nobody is forcing you to visit the website.
@Damo She most certainly is entitled to blow off steam, it's a shame we can't all have that luxury. There is no need to be disingenuous, unprofessional behavior like Kate's only alienates well intentioned users like @Scapetti who only wish to raise genuine issues with the admins of a site they clearly are very passionate about, as I'm sure we all are. A key lesson to be learned here is to be respectful when users raise concerns like these. You don't have to actually do anything to address them, naturally, but maybe don't tell your users in so many words to go to hell every time you personally disagree with them while wrapping yourself in the cloth when they respond in equal measure? It would certainly be a start.
@Astral-Grain Probably for the same reason Pokemon: Legends Arceus will most likely sell very well this month. Even at its worst, we all can't help but be passionate about things we know can be better. Still have nothing but respect for you and all of the NintendoLife authors, the odd jab aside.
@Scapetti If you go to a restaurant several times a week and each time you go, you complain about the food being too bland or not cooked right, people will start to wonder why you keep coming back day after day.
In the same way, if all you have to contribute is how much better you can do the writer's jobs and how terrible it is to read their articles, people wonder why you keep coming back. You gotta wonder about people that keep returning to places they supposedly detest cough cough @Menardi
@CharlieGirl I'm sorry but this is completely incorrect. The issue was closed after Ant's comment to me. It had ended. Then a group of you started attacking me. And I really don't know why. I've literally put an apology in every comment since and you're still doing it. There's nothing more I can say
@Damo the intent was insulting. The "highlights" and having to "put up with these comments". That is what I found to be insulting. You can decide it's not insulting but that's because you're not on the other end of it. It was insulting and upsetting. And I only checked her twitter to see it after I got random continued attacks on here like I had done something awful. I felt I was missing a part of a puzzle and I still feel that way. I genuinely don't know what is happening here but other commenters are putting words into my mouth. What did I do?
@Menardi We're going round in circles here.
@Scapetti's concerns were addressed politely very, very early on in this comment thread. To sum up; 1) this is most certainly news and is worth reporting on. 2) The fact that the sources do not give their names is standard practice in ALL walks of journalism, not just video games. 3) Lego Star Wars is a franchise that has always been on Nintendo systems, hence us covering the news.
If anyone feels this is 'drama', then there's a reason for that - if you're one of the employees who has been put through this process, it can have a massive impact on your wellbeing - so yes, this is quite a 'dramatic' topic and one we've covered many times in the past. Like every industry, video games has its tough stories to report on.
And, not wanting to sound like a broken record, your opening salvo in this comment thread was 100% designed to confrontational. You lost any right to accuse us of being the same, I'm afraid, especially when myself and other staff have taken the time to calmly explain our stance on this matter.
Have a nice day.
@Astral-Grain I come here for Nintendo news, for "press releases" apparently. Which has been misattributed to me when @Damo was the one who said it. I expressed my views on what I'd like to see from a Nintendo news website. And had no intention of insulting anyone. Others were a little less polite me and I agreed with their sentiment but not their words. Can you kindly stop going for my jugular, thank you
@Damo thank you. Gosh, sorry, I don't know what happened here
@Damo In case you missed it:
A key lesson to be learned here is to be respectful when users raise concerns like these. You don't have to actually do anything to address them, naturally, but maybe don't tell your users in so many words to go to hell every time you personally disagree with them while wrapping yourself in the cloth when they respond in equal measure? It would certainly be a start.
Hoping you have a nice day as well. We all get a little passionate about these things, but I hope you and Kate understand it's not personal, seems she takes it personally. We all want the best for NintendoLife, at the end of the day, I'm sure we can agree on that.
@Scapetti Let's draw a line under this now, it's the weekend
@Menardi Have a nice day, and a good weekend, too. I've got some fun stuff planned myself; hope yours is also going to be an enjoyable one.
@Scapetti hello again, I also thought that this thread was done and dusted and I hope everyone can find their peace here as per our previous exchange
I don't think there is anything else to really add from my perspective, as we discussed before you are completely entitled to your views and opinions and it's ok if we disagree on how a website should be run. However, I can understand why some of your comments (and ones from others) have rubbed people the wrong way which has caused them to react. They in turn are entitled to criticise your criticism and you them and so on and so on.
The main thing for me is to look at what is said and figure out what is going to be constructive and make things better as often any disagreement just ends up going round and round in circles and nothing actually changes.
Anyway, hope you have a good weekend as I'll be signing off soon!
@Scapetti I don't want you to read my words and think I mean you any ill will just because I disagree with your approach. I think you're an intelligent good-intentioned person who just doesn't see the full impact of their comments. Your voice does matter, as evidenced by the founder of the entire website making a special trip into the comments just to address you personally.
My primary point is that if you complain several times a week about the quality of articles, and if you've already had the ear of the founder of the company to voice your concerns, maybe you've said all you need to say. Maybe you can spare the authors from hearing it again in the future as this may be a place of fun for readers like you and I, but this is a place of work for the authors of NL.
I hope you have a wonderful weekend and I wish you well.
@Menardi @Scapetti @Astral-Grain Can we get a group hug over here, guys? Guys?!
@Damo leaving me in the cold?
@Damo @Menardi @Scapetti @antdickens Bring it in
@antdickens I'll be able to give you an ACTUAL hug on Sunday
@Damo Thank you, you too.
And @KateGray I hope you don't think I've been actively out to get you in articles. Someone here said that and I hope you don't feel that way also. It has never been my intention and I don't have any personal issue with you at all. And I'll try to keep in mind in future that my comments can be perceived that way. I really only @ mentioned you in this article because you happened to be the writer of this particular article. And I know there was that "clickbait" thing the other day but it was only that the headline bothered me and you did promptly fix it and I really appreciated that.
@Astral-Grain I genuinely feared the website was under new management or something because the content felt different. Those concerns have been washed away thanks to @antdickens
I think things will be better from now on. I'll be less concerned about the future of this website now that I know nothing is really changing. That thought got into my head from exchanges I had with others so it did become a genuine concern.
Definitely up for a group hug. Have a good weekend everyone!
@Damo @Scapetti @Astral-Grain @antdickens Bring it in, bring it in. One for @KateGray as well. The internet will always be a little negative and divisive, but you are genuinely a great talent. Truly have nothing but respect for you, you are an extraordinarily talented person, you have a wonderful sense of humor and a positive attitude. Want nothing but the best for all of you at NL this year.
@Menardi 👍👍👍
@Yorumi Ok I just needed clarification on some things, I'll deal with the crunch topic another time. Who knows, maybe I'll work in a game one day. I really wish good luck with yours...!
@FixMadden22 What do you mean "at this point"? Developers are crunching less than ever now. It used to be a given in the past, nowadays because of all the bad press and also more competition arising, most companies are against crunch.
There are several reasons why games are constantly getting delayed these days, but lack of crunch is the biggest one. Yes, more than Covid.
Yeah…so back on topic…
“ Former and current employees, speaking anonymously to Polygon's Jack Yarwood, detail a toxic work culture at TT Games, the use of "soft-spoken blackmail", and in particular, the managing style of Jon Burton, co-founder and creative director at the UK-based studio until his departure when Warner Bros purchased the company in 2007.”
Welcome to the corporate world! Seriously this is how it is in many places so it’s definitely not exclusive to TT Games. I’m a software engineer that’s been in a handful of bad places. It’s widespread and comes with the territory in a lot of corporate entities. The good news is that these people can always leave like I did mine. There are plenty of other jobs out there and usually ones that are better paying. Don’t EVER feel stuck in a job.
@Yorumi
I'd rather call them "deepened answers". There are always simpler ways to explain out there, but not necessarily the best option to.
I ought to ease such dilemmas , I swear it.
I'm outta this topic, for now...
Too bad - I was a fan of Burton’s YouTube channel until he turned it into some kind of strange bible bash. Ironic really.
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