Metroid Dread is out in the wild and it's looking like a tremendous success – it's an absolute cracker, for starters, and has just nabbed itself a debut week number one in the Japanese charts. Unfortunately, though, there is a downer on proceedings that's come to light since the game's release last Friday.
A number of staffers who worked at Metroid Dread studio MercurySteam during the game's development, but have since left the company, have claimed that they aren't included in the game's credits despite finding their work in the final product. As spotted by Vandal, 3D artist Roberto Mejías raised the issue on LinkedIn, questioning the development studio's decision to leave them out:
"I would like to sincerely congratulate the Metroid Dread team for putting out such an outstanding game. I'm not surprised of the quality of the game though, since the amount of talent on that team was through the roof. I know this first hand because, despite not being included on the game's credits, I was part of that team for eight months.
While playing the game, I've recognized quite a few assets and environments I worked on... so my work is there. Then, I would like to ask MercurySteam: Why do I not appear on the game's credits? Is it some kind of mistake?"
Speaking to Vandal, another staffer who wished to remain anonymous told a similar story, saying that they worked on the game at MercurySteam for eleven months but haven't been included in the credits. They called it "a very ugly practice".
The games industry has struggled with this problem for a long time, with no official guidance in place for how studios should go about crediting their staff. In most cases, the employer has the final say, sometimes resulting in temporary team members or those who have moved on from the company just ahead of a game's launch to be removed entirely.
In Vandal's report, a MercurySteam representative told the outlet that "the policy of the studio requires that anyone must work on the project [for] at least 25% of the total development of the game to appear in the final credits," going on to say that "sometimes exceptions are made when making exceptional contributions." Metroid Dread was thought to be in development for four years, which would explain why anyone who didn't work on the game for a full year might have been cut.
Of course, the question remains why? Why should putting eleven months of hard work into a project rather than twelve mean that you don't receive credit for your efforts, potentially spoiling future career opportunities?
[source vandal.elespanol.com, via nintendoeverything.com]
Comments 288
Oh dear, that’s not good at all. If your work is in the game, you absolutely deserve credit for said work.
I don't like your policies, Mercury Steam. Besides, the fact that these employees left the company so soon doesn't draw a very nice picture of the company.
This is an utterly abhorrent thing for Mercury Steam to do. Anyone who's worked on a game for any amount of time should absolutely be credited.
I realize I won't be hurting anyone's profit margins by not buying Metroid Dread, but I can't in good concious use my spending money on this game. I'm really glad I held off on buying it.
Oh COME ON, Dread was doing SO GOOD and they just HAD to pull that scummy bull. God forbid you take 2 seconds to type a name!
Welll looks.like.I won't be getting this game when I get my new switch unless Mercury Steam does the right thing.
That really sucks. I work in the film industry as a storyboard artist, and whenever I start a new project, there's always a section in the deal memo/contract asking how I'd like to be credited. The game industry should adopt a similar practice.
Not cool if true. People should be credited for the work they put into the game.
This is such a weird practice. In contrast, in the music business if somebody in the studio suggests just one word that end up in the final lyrics, they will get writing credits for it.
I can understand their policy somewhat, but if it's close to 25% why not give credit where it's due? On the other hand, why not just credit everyone who has contributed? That's what I would do.
Yep, that’s gross, and very sadly the norm. This happens all the time in my industry(marketing/animation) and it’s extremely disheartening when it happens to you. These games aren’t just whipped up out of thin air. Even the smallest asset takes enough skill and expertise to warrant a credit.
They signed this term before they work for the company. I dont see any problem. Maybe, for long games, they should change a little bit this percentage, or eliminate it.
Just type the damn names dammit smh.
Patch them in asap... even if they just had a "Temporary Contributors" section or something.
I'm wondering why the person is acting like they are oblivious to why they aren't in the credits when it's been an established policy for a long time. It's not really scummy when it's very well known to the development team about what is required to make the credits.
Just credit everyone who made a contribution…..
Any and all parties involved in the creation of this game, should be recognized. Period. There is no grey area here
It's not the first time i heard of that exact situation happen.
Is this some kind of unwritten, unspoken industry rule thingy not to credit people not in the team at reaching gold status?
Does anyone actually read the credits?
It’s called sequence breaking.
And I was starting to enjoy the game as well:(
That should be made illegal, or looked down upon so severely that no one does it moving forward. The industry is 50 this year, this kind of thing shouldn't be happening... if I were making a game and someone contributed a random, 2 second sound effect, they'd be in the credits.
When I worked at Bethesda/Zenimax they usually put a deadline a few months before release or final version for when the credits were “finished”. Anyone that joined the project after that point couldn’t be added or have an incorrect spelling of their name fixed. Every project also had employees credited that actually had nothing to do with the project, thats from developers to even the receptionist or cooking staff. People (especially in QA) that worked on the game wouldn’t get credit at times because they were only on the project for a few weeks, while cooking staff or vip devs or producers got their names on everything
If someone had left the company before the credits were finalized, they were often removed from the credits (if it was realized) or they weren’t added
@psychoBrew When you work on something, seeing you name in the credits is a small victory you can go back to when you need a pick me up, inspiration, a trip down memory lane, etc... a couple of my friends are in the credits for Red Dead Redemption 2 and they were buzzing, even though all they did was play test one very small part of the game. You wouldn't think it meant as much, but it really, really does.
It's a bad and widespread industry practice, just like crunch culture. Deathloop and Red Dead Redemption 2 had uncredited employees in the 1000s. (Especially the latter.)
I know Kotaku got cancelled the other week, because that's the way internet discourse works, but this article might be instructive: https://kotaku.com/how-game-companies-use-credits-to-reward-or-punish-de-1840905129
Who cares. Vanity.
@Funneefox Dude opened his statement with how proud he was of the game and the team behind it, which is a subtle way of saying carry on playing it. Trust me, the last thing OP wanted was to turn people off a game he spent 8 months working on.
@CharlieGirl I don't think the consumer needs to feel any kind of bad conscience or responsibility for the actions of the developer, even if they buy the game. It's okay not wanting to support bad practices, but I don't think there's anything wrong in buying a game if you want to play it.
Not a good thing for MercurySteam to do, of course, but I would assume they followed the terms that both parties agreed to. So, I don't know... why complain now and not before you put all the work into it?
Nonetheless, I do hope they update the credits.
Removed - current gen piracy/emulation
@LN3000
That isn't vanity. That is being credited for a job you've done
"Why?"
In my experience as a developer (diff industry), as also with game development in general anything can change in just a few months to a few years. Those 8 months you worked on the game could've been replaced by other things like spec changes and such.
Their policy has merit to a degree even with other companies not necessarily in game development. But IMO still give credit where credit's due especially if those few months of work somehow still translated to the final product no matter how small.
I feel like if a person puts in the better part of a year of their life on a game, they deserve at least a "special thanks".
That stinks for the person involved.
I'm still buying the game...
A contribution is a contribution be it 4 months worth or 4 years worth. The missing names in the credits should defenately be patched in. Especially if assets that someone worked on are featured in the final product. Sly dogs.
If you write a paper and don't reference a source you only used for a single statement, you get dinged with plagiarism and that doesn't exactly carry a light penalty. Why should crediting game developers be any different?
@Yorumi Yeah... Man, I hate the internet justice and cancel culture.
Always 2 sides to a story. As some has said this should be already known in the work contract. However I do agree that credit should be given if there is legit contributions. On another hand anyone can say they contributed to whatever. Meaning as far we know this dude could have just painted a generic background blue. I mean it is something but they could have gotten the janitor to do that. I don't know I'm sure there's a lot more to it that we may never know. It's just nowadays everyone puts it all on social media to drum up whatever "support" or "backlash". LOL the dude could have been dumped by a female artist and this is his way of getting back. Just a thought it doesn't mean jack sh#t.
@CharlieGirl Not really. No matter how "bad" those policies sound, they exist for a reason. Let's say you "contributed" to a project but in reality you were just lazing around and always do your tasks last minute. There are a lot of scenarios like that in my experiences.
We always need to understand the reasoning behind these decisions and not just because it sounded wrong. Who knows, Mercury Steam might have gotten a bite in the back with a similar case back then, hence the policy.
But hey, whatever works for you.
Really? Come on, MercurySteam! That is so uncool. I'm still buying the game, no question
I feel like almost a year is significant enough to warrant a credit, especially since the work was used in the final product.
That said, declaring you will never buy a game until someone is credited seems short-sighted. What about the other developers who also worked on the game? Wouldn't it be better to buy and appreciate the work they all contributed to and spent years working on? One person not getting credit (again, when they should) versus everyone not getting anything at all? Because who cares if you worked and credited on something that wasn't successful?
If that's their policy, then the employees probably knew about it in advance. Pretty scummy of them to make a big negative mess about it after the fact. They shouldn't have started working there if they weren't planning on being there long enough to get credit.
Odd stuff. Is it some kind of incentive for folks to contribute more, or something? Then again, @Zyph makes a valid point as well.
Regardless, it's something I'd personally prefer not practiced, but indeed, if there are no regulations in place (besides possible street cred impact among other potential recruits), it seems harder to make a solid case against the company until there are. But didn't a similar thing happen in the cinematic industry? Their credit rolls look infinitely more thorough than they did decades ago, so hopefully there is some precedent to look into.
@BrazilianCara people are entitled to any personal spending choices and reasonings for themselves, but if you refuse to support [the people behind] an entertainment product on some moral grounds (and announce it in public, no less), still insisting on the consumption of this entertainment product is the guaranteed way to dampen those moral grounds into mud.
@CharlieGirl While I do applaud your stance however I fear you may never play another video game again. Let's face it if this is a very common industry practice then Metroid Dread is barely a tip of the iceberg. I'm confident lots of your money spent on other games are guilty of the exact same thing. I'm just curious to know where do you draw the line? Not trolling I'm just wondering. Is it possibly a case of ignorance is bliss? The ol' saying of "if a tree falls in the woods..." explanation?
@CharlieGirl That's fair, you do whatever makes you comfortable!
I don't mind individuals/companies facing consequences for their actions. I just don't like it when millions of people attack them on the internet. What makes it worse, some of these people might not even understand the situation properly and just go with the flow, attacking and harassing someone.
They need to change this policy. If your work is being used in a commercial product, you need to be credited. ESPECIALLY if you've given 8 - 11 months of your life to it. That's a big contribution.
This is not news. Its the studios policy. They know this, so dont drag the company trough the mud afterwards.
Stupid policy needs changing mercurystream. I mean how difficult is it to add a couple more names to the credits? Crazy
@CharlieGirl You're boycotting a game because certain developers did minor contract work and still got compensated?
It's honestly silly to do that since it doesn't make much of a difference whether or not you payed for the product. If anyone wants to make a difference they need to speak out about it instead. I think certain game journos can write articles about these sorts of things and bring them more to light in the public perception and that makes more of a difference then just saying you won't support something because of arbitrary reasons.
Someone not buying something doesn't do much to hurt the developers since unless your protesting, few will notice or care.
@Zyph My stance does work for me, and I won't be changing my moral compass.
In a perfect world I agree all should be listed. However I do think there are some valid reasons companies do this as we don't live in a perfect world.
1) to stop people building a quick portfolio by jumping between companies and games. Why get credited in just one game over 4 years when you could get credited in five or more? This could increase employee turnover, and incentivises loyalty.
2) Not all stages of production are equal. They don't want to incentivise people to bail when the harder stages come.
Regardless both 8 or 11 months sounds like a long enough stint to warrant inclusion.
@russell-marlow "You're boycotting a game because certain developers did minor contract work and still got compensated?"
Yeah.
@nhSnork If policies don't exist, then the bad employees could (and yes they have) exploit the good will of 'good' companies. If said policies, for whatever reason, doesn't fit your ethos then do something about it. The fact remains not all rules are bad even if they appear to be at face value.
@CharlieGirl "I won't be changing my moral compass" that makes you human so do what you have to do.
I suppose they got paid for their 11months of work for the game, that’s their credit. If the dev says you need to work 12 months to be in the final credits, then that is the rules.
People saying they will boycott a game just because somebody didn’t meet the requirements for credit that were clearly laid out, need to get a grip.
Why not just have a category called "contributors" for those who didn't stick around but did something?
Is it gonna turn out there was some sort of pervert who worked on a mercury steam game and this policy was the perfect way to keep their name off it?
@CharlieGirl Unless this really hurts their job credentials, I don't see it being that big of an issue. If they don't happen upon the same scenario where they end up doing contract work without being credited, then they should know about that and not fall into the same situation if they don't want to.
Isn't this how Activision started??
Recognition goes a very long way, and rarely costs anything.
@piecez People saying they won't buy a game because somebody didn't get properly credited don't need to "get a grip."
If you want to buy the game, fine, great, go do that. But people don't owe it to your favorite game(s) to run out and buy a copy.
Ah, makes me glad I didn’t buy the game and inadvertently support this decision.
This needs to be addressed asap! I beat this game last night and loved every minute of it. It’s every bit worthy of a Metroid title. I don’t always replay a game so it’s very good for me to do so. I’ll go thru this one multiple times.
@Yorumi Good point, makes me think. I would love to know the names of those who built my house.
If the company has a policy about when you are named in the credits you should've known that the policy existed. (They don't mention they didn't know this)
So in this case I agree with the company if they worked for less than 25% on it. Companies are ofcourse still allowed to have their own policies.
@PBandSmelly The game card ran out of memory for additional names for the credits....jk
These short term devs can write it on their Linkedin and can get references from mercurysteam, they do get some credit. Im sure they can be added to the credits with a patch, but they were clearly not the driving creative force behind the game and if this 25% is a policy, they should know it. Be sure to add whoever delivered pizza to the office too.
@nkarafo why give them money? Did anyone suggest they were not paid for their work? Why does not having a credit mean they need money?
Lol. Can people not do a job anymore???
After the embarrassing clap for the NHS debacle now its clap for the Christmas temps.
25% on a game that has been stuck in development hell for one and a half decades is a lot to ask for. Why not go with "every little bit counts?"
@Link41x 100%. I'll be doing the same. It sucks for that person. But it doesn't stop me for purchasing the end product.
Not going to lie, this does make me want to return my copy.
@CharlieGirl Then you should not buy anything at all, as you can't really know what practices are involved in the making of any product you consume, You don't know if there has been abusive practices in the developing of your favorite game or anime, if you really feel guilty for playing metroid dread then I don't know how you can live.
geez Mercury Steam acts as if a 11 months work meant a 11 minutes work....
@Yorumi
I agree, but was merely pointing out to the other commenter that this isn't just an act of vanity. I'm not rushing to return my copy or anything
OT: Regarding Metroid Dread, is not this game just a reskinned Metroid Fusion?
@valharian Anime is a bad example, since they pretty much work exclusively in crunch-like time constraints.
I'm being mildly sarcastic, not trying to talk down to you, 'cause you make a great point.
Man there are a bunch of snowflakes on this site. If you want to play the game. Just buy it.
@piecez no that 11 months pay was not there credit. That was money owed to them for a thing called labour. Your statement implies they should be grateful they got paid.
Actually sad to see the few people on here sticking up for the employer rather than the employee. The staff have every right to question why they are not named in the credits.
There work should have been recognised and it doesn't look good for mercury steam and other development houses that take part in this practise.
I see hypocrecy in the comments, I said it before, if you feel guilty for consuming this game then go and stop buying cellphones and consoles, are you really sure there has not been mistreating behavior on the making of those products? I'm sure you don't care on those cases because it would not be convenient for you. In a capitalist system everything has a chance of being manufactered with no ethics in mind.
@BlackenedHalo
"OT: Regarding Metroid Dread, is not this game just a reskinned Metroid Fusion?"
Huh? As in story? Gameplay?
It is what it is...I mean I look at it like this. Let's just say I'm talking to Stan Lee at a bar...we are BS-ing and I draw the concept of Spiderman. All these years later I come out and say Marvel/Disney and Stan Lee did credit me for the 5% of the concept of spiderman. I'm sure it was in his contract and for most people who want a job they don't read and just sign. It is what it is. Also, Metroid Dread is a very good game I'm happy with my purchase.
@CharlieGirl So your high ethical standards won't allow for you to buy a game because of a questionable policy the developer has that leads to someone going uncredited, but you're perfectly okay with pirating the game online and enjoying the labor of the many people working at that developer without compensating them? lol
I agree that it is not a good thing if someone makes a meaningful contribution and then is ignored in the credits. The lack of credit led to the creation of the first independent game studios. (Remember, Atari equated those working on creating the game with those who worked on the manufacturing assembly line, .the result was Activision and later Imagic as well as the Adventure Easter Egg)
.
However, as has been pointed out, this is the latest incident and at least the studio appears to have a policy about the situation. As another poster noted, their previous employer would remove people who left the company from the credits — and it does not appear there was a standard of how much effort a person had put toward a game to aid in that determination.
The Washington Post summed up the problem in an article on May 18, 2021: There are currently no widely-adopted crediting guidelines within the games industry, as there are in film and TV, where studios abide by best practices negotiated by unions.
I have no problem with people being upset by this. (I will say that in this case though there at least appears to be some sort of policy in place — though when a game takes this long to develop, those standards probably need a reexamination). However, as this is not new (the Kotaku article appeared in 2008), nor is it exclusive to Nintendo games or Mercury Steam, (for example, the Washington Post notes that Rockstar is notorious for this), I do find some of the reactions specific to this game a bit surprising.
@Classic603 in gameplay
Why are people having a go @charliegirl for having a moral compass? Fair enough you may not agree with it but jeez, why all the hatred over a different opinion.
@kobashi100 if there was no rules for crediting and the dev was crediting people at their own discretion, that would be a different matter. but, there was a clear policy for gaining credit, which the individual did not meet. case closed
This isn't just a video game credit practice. I graduated as a Material Scientist recently and I've come across quite a few instances where companies me and my fellow students worked presented our work without our name. A friend of mine saw his final presentation and report, word for word, given and republished by his supervisor at a convention for example. His name was nowhere to be found.
I understand that when you work as an intern the accomplishments are in the name of the company
but the least they could do is put our name somewhere even if it's not on the front.
But they don't and that, quite frankly, still makes me angry.
I know I’m a minority in my stance. But this just proves the internet is looking to be upset about something. Should they be included-probably. But if you leave a company and someone takes over your role they are going to get the credit when it’s finished. That’s the case for everything. I think it’s a bit of an over reaction to protest buying the game so vehemently over some people that quit along the way. These are just my thoughts and you’re entitled to yours as well.
TBH the 25% of the development time is kinda BS really. You might only be there a month and could have made massive amount of progress for the company but since you weren't there for 25% of the development no credit for you. I have heard one story where a new person came into the project and everything was in shambles on how things where going. So he changed things with the engine they were using and with those changes made working on the project so much easier for the development team.
Now I can see that for some people that it can be a vanity thing and that is true but for others it more of building your profolio. It may not be much but if you are young every project matters that you are credited in.
@BlackenedHalo
It's definitely a faster paced Metroid, similar to Fusion, but that's about where the similarities end. For sure it works as a sequel to Fusion, but in no way is it a reskin
@Yorumi
Fair point
every time I go to the supermarket, when I get to the checkout I call the manager to complain why every member of staff on shift for the last month is not credited on my till receipt for the work they have done in allowing me to successfully buy my shopping.
@Yorumi who said anything about joining a mob and start attacking staff at mercury steam? I just said it's sad to see people jump to defend the employer ASAP over the employee. Not sure how that in any shape or form that supports rage attacking against mercury steam.
They just took the actual List of Employees, don't put to many Thoughts into it.
Edit:
Just as a simple Exemple:
This Month we wanted to give the Employees in our Company some little extra Cash for those that spend some extra Hours to finish all Work.
100 Employees, even if noted it was not as easy to keep Track of any that helped out.
To look up in the System also didn't helped, as some are 15+ Minutes in the House because they wash themselfs, change Clothing etc.
Now in a Studio working on a big Titel, it also will not be as easy to keep Track who worked on what and how long.
Hmm, I can sympathize with this upset dev, but grumbling about lack of recognition from a former employer seems a tad dramatic to me. People and their egos, my gosh...
MercurySteam probably outlines the policy in the fine print for all incoming employees. But yeah, it's hard to criticize either way without knowing the facts of the matter.
If the person left MercurySteam on their own volition, they shouldn't expect much loyalty/recognition in return from their former employer. Likewise if they were terminated prematurely.
If they were working as a temp or freelancer, recognition should depend on how much they contributed to the project or ingratiated themselves to management.
If MercurySteam is being truthful, at least they have a policy in place and try to follow it. You cannot please everyone in this life...
Unpopular take but I don’t get my name put on the products I produce at work. My credit is my paycheck. As per their policy you have to work on at least 25% of the projects development time to get credited. That’s absolutely fair.
People, remember, don't hate on the game because of this since that would be the same as hating the work these people have done. I guess that policy was made when they handled smaller projects, but working for 3 months on a year long project shouldn't be the treated the same as working a full year on a four year long project.
"I'm not buying the game because of this!" - person who was never going to buy the game.
It's terrible that people were left out of the credits and this practice should stop.
That being said, I'm not sure how it would ruin career opportunities. If you put MercurySteam and Metroid Dread on your resume, I'd like to think that the place to which you're applying would sooner call MercurySteam to confirm rather than whip out their Switch, load up their save game, beat the final boss, and study the Staff roll.
It's weird seeing so many people defend this decision
These individuals all worked on the game, regardless of the amount of time they put into it, they're still pieces of the puzzle here, they helped bring this product to completion, a product which was in development hell for the longest time too
Is adding additional text to the end credits really much to ask for?
You worked on the game, so you should receive your dues for that, this is seriously such an unnecessary business policy
Complete non-issue for people to get their daily dose of virtue signaling in on a crisis that isn't. Brilliant move by NintendoLife though bc these kind of stories crank up the interactions for their website. A+ all around everyone wins lol
Let's not forget that, even in the unfortunate event of an untimely demise, most of our employers will be looking to find our replacement before any of us have even been laid to rest. Business is business and, sadly, most only concern themselves with the people who are there, not the ones who no longer are...regardless of the reasons.
I mean it sucks but I've bought games from Activision and Naughty Dog, who also have policies I don't care for. If I boycotted games or started hating on them because of stupid business practices, I wouldn't have a game collection at all. Hell the big 3 have all done worse stuff than this, I still buy the hardware they produce.
If that's the policy of the company when people sign up to work for them, then how can you take issue with it? Why complain about it after the event?
@Yorumi We're holding game development on the same level as making a pizza now, alright lol
@SilentHunter382 Just to be clear, Mercury System's statement does say "sometimes exceptions are made when making exceptional contributions." So if someone's month-long involvement was deemed significant enough by the company's standards (of which I have no basis to know what that standard is), then they would be credited.
Also just want to say that I don't know what their reasoning for the 25% threshold is - I personally can't think of any reason not to give credit to all involved but I also don't have any experience with these companies. I only mentioned what I did to clear things up.
I have written hundreds of computer programs for various companies and my name does not appear on the credits. Because it belongs to the company, not to the programmer. To quote Don Draper, That´s what the money is for.
@Teksetter fair point and yes the staff member may have known the policy when agreeing terms of employment. Doesn't mean we have to accept it's a fair policy though when showing support for the person in question.
I work on big projects IT ops, the company (not me) gets the credit, but the clients know who i am. My name doesnt have to be on a builboard.
On some projects i work for a whole year.
My credit is my salary lol. And when the clients are happy i am too.
If your work is used in the final product - regardless of how long you actually worked on the project - you should be credited.
@Yorumi You're comparing apples to oranges here
A single pizza isn't painstakingly worked on by hundreds of individuals and shipped off across the globe for millions to experience, same goes for the other examples you've mentioned
Well, like anything, the devil is in the details. We know for a fact no one spent 8 months with no sleep continuously working on Metroid Dread until they succumbed to sleep deprivation. Within those 8 months, they worked a certain amount of hours on this game. How many? Was this full time work? Could be. Could not be. I caution anyone to make drastic decisions based on crumbs of information. I hate how we need to be so for or against any piece of information we hear. It would be nice if people took time to digest before screaming about something one way or the other.
Personally i think if your work ends up in the final product you should get credit regardless of how long you worked on it
@smithpa01 It couldn’t hurt to credit everyone, I suppose. At the same time, some people worked longer or on more important aspects of the final product. Possibly a minor contributors section would work but then, I assume many would have different opinions on what is considered minor and major contributors.
@Broski To some, perhaps listing too many people in the credits diminishes the contribution of others credited. Possibly a good middle ground is to list everyone and list the amount of time they spent on the project.
To play devil’s advocate, executive producers generally spent very little time on projects but their credit is generally front and center. To be clear, I don’t have strong feelings on this topic but I would disagree with almost every take I’ve seen on this topic.
It's on the internet it must be true. I know nothing of the situation but I jump at the slightest possibility of championing social justice especially on a global coroporation fan site by stating I boycott games even though I rarely buy games anyway.
Please retweet to share in my virtuosity.
@Yorumi You're understating the difficulty of game development so hard here that it's actually disrespectful lol
Yeah, it's the same for them all, just writing lines of code, poor work environments are simply nonexistent in this field, as is crunch culture, these guys truly never break a sweat, unlike the other completely unrelated examples you listed
@Mahatma As I already stated, everyone here (I’m sorry for the generalization as that flies in the face of my point) wants to make this a zero sum game. It’s stupid! No it’s not! Virtue! Justice! I’m sick of it! I’m not! It’s all crazy to me. I don’t agree with you as you are doing the same. You are against SJWs, good for you! That just makes you part of the long game, something vs something. Everything is something vs something.
When I read the header I thought: "Nintendo at it again?!". Luckily that's not the case!
Some staffers might be around for a very short time. But of course everyone that worked on it should be mentioned. Sometimes I get the feeling that everyone from a company that has barely seen the game gets mentioned, while some staffers that worked straight on the game don't get mentioned at all!
@kobashi100 It’s a comments board. The post invites feedback, like all posts. Also, it’s implicit that if the company is immoral, then those that purchase this game are also immoral. People have a right to state why Charlie’s girls stance doesn’t align with their own beliefs.
Obviously I don't know if any part of this story is true, but here's what I think: If somebody works on a project for 11 seconds, and their work isn't removed from the final version, then they have to be credited. I imagine a great number of jobs take less than a year to do.
@anzzjam thanks bro, you make a good point.
@Mahatma You may not be a fan of my reply to you. I’m not on anyone’s side here. As we speak, I continue to internalize this information as I decide how to feel about this topic. It’s an interesting thought experiment, at the very least. I just caution you into thinking that everyone who takes a stance and decides to state is doing so for malicious reasons.
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@hyakulegger Literally, you used a profession that is under appreciated to make fun of someone who is not appreciating another persons profession. I would recommend setting your sights higher, if your goal is to be better than other people.
On the one hand, I can understand feeling slighted if you're not properly credited in some shape or form. I'd know, I've been there before, albeit not in the video game industry.
On the other hand, and I ask this because I am not in the video game industry, can't you still mention in your resume/CV that you worked on a title even if your name doesn't pop up at the end?
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@hyakulegger There you go again. Status and stature only get you so far, especially when you are talking to strangers on the internet.
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@thenewguy Yeah but it took the music business decades to adopt this practice. Look at how many older songs have trouble with writing credits and royalties. Video games are realitvely new compared to other mediums, so unfortunately people have to keep fighting for stuff like this until it sets a precedent.
@anzzjam I don't mind people disagreeing with me. I think you offered some good insight, so thanks.
@hyakulegger You have no comprehension with regards to my posts. These phrases you grasp on to don’t exist in my sphere. Have fun fighting people similar to yourself who need a stance to prove their existence.
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@Mahatma Thank you as well. I appreciate your comments as well, whether we are in full agreement or not. I prefer talking things out with someone who doesn’t see things my way all the time, it helps me either change my mind or reinforce my prior ideas. Cheers, I wish you well.
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@hyakulegger No need to listen to me, but I suggest you delete this post as using a sexual orientation as a slur is not only wrong, but it’s lazy and uninspired.
People complaining should stop buying anything from Nintendo as mercury steam are working for them and Nintendo has said anything on the matter
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@hyakulegger Whether you delete it or not, your post will disappear. That might give you something else to rally against.
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This comments section is glorious!!
@Yorumi it’s been a joy to watch you school broski
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Weird policy 😒. It should be like:
”Hey, what if Samus is a clone”
Devs use it in game, ur name is in credits.
Senior management decisions like this prove why most managers are not fit to lead. Credit everyone that had input. Make the list massive. Who cares…. Only leaving people off will cause issues… if I was in charge… the people that serve teas and do the post room would be credited too. Be nice and give everyone a little slice of credit.
@hyakulegger Can you articulate what I am rallying against? I am able to do so with regards to yourself. Your identity on this site is thus far based on demeaning those you deem to be your political or cultural opponent. I don’t know you though, so perhaps you are more thoughtful than your posts lead me to believe. I’m on break from work so I’ve got some time to waste. I will admit that what I am doing at this time is doing no one any good.
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Credit them. Game was good and even the janitor at the place deserves a medal.
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I find this policy indefensible. They contributed, they should get a credit. Even if it's bottom of the list or what have you.
@Fulkaffe I understand your take on this information, but how should that idea be credited? That’s a very minor contribution and shouldn’t be listed among those that came up with the concept art for the boss battles, for example.
I think I am for crediting everyone, but we need to be careful about not giving someone too much credit. That will indeed diminish the work of someone that coded in that idea, or who worked on the game for a much longer period of time.
@Stocksy I’m with you, one policy for all, except I’d give nobody credit. Finished the game? Straight back to the title screen with you
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Ya every studio has this policy unfortunately. However the length of time is usually not so long. There was one were it required a person be on the team for 1 year to get included in the credits. Another project enlisted our studio for help and paid to not have us in the credits and I never saw a dime of it.
I get why the policy exists for some situations. Person hops on at the end with 1 month before the game goes gold and suddenly in the games credits makes no sense. That person was likely still learning the tools and which staff to talk to. 2 months they might get lucky and start onboard to the point where they can help. 3 months you've probably done something of relevance depending on your field and contribution relevance, but I think 3 months max should be the cut off. At that point you should be contributing to a project in some way. You're no longer the new guy.
These guys 6+ months. Chances are its more than a handful of things they've done for the game. Even if all your contributions got thrown out, they still lead to the games release in some way. Even if they took your level out, that is a lost level that they had the option of keeping. Something that they could very well restore in DLC, a remaster, or even a remake. Fair is fair. Credit these team members.
@Yorumi Good for you, I don't want to take anything away from what you do, I'm sure you work hard and I respect that.
But, not every developer has the luxury of sitting in a comfortable chair in an air conditioned room, the experience is different for everyone, especially those who work in AAA game development, I'm sure you've heard some of the horror stories that have arisen in terms of crunch culture and poor work environments, there's a reason I don't support Naughty Dog.
Many have their lives strained permanently thanks to this profession, and none of that should be taken away, comparing it to other jobs which require a large amount of work ethic as if developers don't have it nearly as hard in comparison comes across as incredibly undermining, many of these people break their backs bringing us the experiences we enjoy, and that should not be understated.
@GrailUK If a list of credits is incredibly long, it has less impact than a list of credits of only a few names. Indie games have this luxury for example, where everyone can be credited since it was a team of 10 people.
Once the list starts getting into the thousands, the names do become a bit meaningless.
Possibly the solution is two lists of credits. The one at the end of a game should be curated to some extent and showcase the most “important” people whereas in the options, we should be able to see a list of everyone involved and to what capacity they worked on the game. I do take some issue with the idea that this is a abhorrent practice, as it is a bit more complicated than that.
@hyakulegger lol! You want to thank someone for the game? Thank the State, comrade
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@anzzjam True. I'm sure there is a simple solution however. It's just a name on a long list afterall.
extraneous assets by...
@Yorumi I think you need to read some of the other comments around here and the last bit in the article.
In a nutshell: having those credits to your name is a way of telling people what you've worked on and where you've worked. It's basically a way of verification of your work that allows you to be assessed for future opportunities.
@GrailUK I think job title, and months or hours logged could be helpful, but probably a hard thing to keep track of. As I think about it, two credit lists seems to provide the best of both worlds. Minor contributions are still contributions, but shouldn’t be listed with those that contributed a lot more.
Putting emotions aside, was there anything legal in their contracts about this? At what point, would you considered it just? Do you have rights to that object/code you created while working for that company? It's a lot more complex that what the easily offered generation realises.
@CharlieGirl I just find it funny that you are likely typing this from a smartphone or computer that was essentially put together by slave labour lol.
@MegaVel91 That’s correct, though think of it on the other end of those that did get credited. Say this person was part of enemy ai coding but only worked 8 months. Should their name be listed with those that spent the entire duration of development? I would say no. So perhaps the end credits can highlight the most significant people and offer another found elsewhere in the game can credit everyone involved, regardless of their level of contribution.
@MrMetroid Everything and everyone is evil, but is that a fact to lean into? There are small things people can do to lighten their impact. Is boycotting this game one of them? No, not to me, but your point isn’t much better than Charlie’s.
@Judgedean Every generation is easily offended. It’s not a unique problem. You couldn’t be communist in the 50s, couldn’t be gay in pretty much any era, and you needed to be pious as to not offend anyone. These days, everyone has a megaphone. That’s the only difference. It’s lazy to blame or pretend that any one generation is filled with bad people.
@Yorumi I actually do develop games for a living and I can honestly say you're a bit out of your depth here trying to defend the company in this case. For example you say someone could just as easily call a studio and find out if htey worked on a game. It's actually not that easy. Sure a publisher like Ubisoft, EA, or Activision that have been around for decades do keep a record. Though not all of those records are in a system that is easily accessible. Speaking from experience here. You do find smaller studios and publishers that do fold under their own wait and those records do not get passed onto an IP purchaser. It's a pain in the ass to track down an entire team. In fact it was a pain to track down whether I worked on a game for EA in 2015 for my current job, eventually they did just boot up the game. The end result is those game credits being your own way to confirm you have that history. Eventually you do get big enough that it doesn't matter if one or two games are missing from your portfolio, like mine. Which will consist of 10 games as of this holiday season.
Additionally you can't really compare a dev job to someone working at Pizza Hut. None of those people are working 80 to 112 hour weeks during crunch cycles just to make sure you have pepperoni on your pizza. Which has happened to me more than once for months at a time.
It's unfortunate that you work at an indie studio that doesn't even give you a choice to be listed by your actual name, but this isn't a Capcom game in the 80's. It's great that you that you managed to secure your job at that indie studio for as long as you have, not all developers are. Artists are ritually contracted and rarely get regular full time positions, its arrogant presumption to assume they aren't as valid and relevant as you when they are the back bone of what sells your code. To say they shouldn't get credited is asinine. Does your indie studio keep a running record of what projects they are on? How many simply just confirm employment and move on. Artist reel does need validation. This also applies to engineers, producers, designers, QA, Testers, Marketing, etc.
@Yorumi I get your point about other industries, but you know that movies and video games operate differently. If I am looking for a job, people don’t expect that to be qualified, my work was credited by my previous employer. You can’t make your point that other industries don’t credit so who cares? This industry does so if your name is not listed, it can be to your determinant. There is an expectation already set that having your name in the credits helps your prospects. You can argue that this person is not deserving of being credited, that can be a logical conclusion, but you are comparing apples and androids here.
@Yorumi Thanks for saying exactly what I've always thought. Literally billions of workers on this planet get zero credit or public recognition for their labor. Why is it somehow only deemed immoral when it happens to people working in creative mediums, who are typically paid much better than the average worker in the rest of the world?
Also, I would bet that >99% of the people slamming studios for this practice don't watch/read the credits on anything they consume. It's something people either skip, leave the room for, or passively observe as they wait to see if there's secret content after the credits.
@MrMetroid good point, but how else would they/them twitter the outrage?
Makes sense to me. They are a business with a set guideline and paid those people for the time they worked. I see no moral dilemma here.
@Mince I didn't assure so but it's a possibility and that's what comments sections are for. I didn't judge anything so I think that you're overreacting a bit.
@BAN Immoral is not the word I would use, I would use expectation. In this particular industry, those who contribute in a meaningful way to the final product get credited. This expectation does not exist when looking for work as a carpenter. The only question, at least to me, is if 8 months over a set amount of hours on a particular portion of this game warrants getting your name in the credits.
@invictus4000 No moral dilemma, I would agree. I do find this example interesting, as some debate what the line is. Policy is policy of course, but that’s boring. But policy is also why this is not a ethical failure of the company, though that doesn’t mean there is no room for debate on what individuals believe going forward what the standard should be.
I would say no to adding this individual after the fact, but I mull over the idea that perhaps this policy is insufficient.
@Yorumi You actually make a really good point. Like... Why when someone builds a house, do they not get credit (a royalty) every time it's sold.
I mean, that can get messy with repairs and modifications and this and that but...
In the art field such as design and software etc., the product is usually the final product, pending small changes and fixes, whereas other fields, things get overhauled and become a shell of what they used to be.
Great point/thinking piece!
@anzzjam Lol sorry but no. It's extremely common for studios to use policies like this, so it's probably not shocking to any of them that someone would be uncredited on a game they claimed to work on.
If you go into an interview, they're not going to break out their copy of Metroid Dread and scan through a thousand names trying to verify your role in its development. They'll look at your resume, look at your portfolio (which exists even if you're not credited in a game), and probably call some of your former bosses to verify some of your claims.
And hey cool, but the expectation is completely arbitrary. Literally all I care about is that I'm compensated, and that someone else doesn't try to take credit for my work. I've even done work where it was specifically stated ahead of time that I wouldn't be credited. I totally survived though, crazy thing!
Coming from an academic standpoint, I kind of get where the companies are coming from here. For instance, while working on a study with multiple people, there comes a point where we need to decide who had contributed enough to be an author and in what order the authors should be presented (based on level of contribution). Sometimes those who don't quite make the cut will be mentioned in the acknowledgments section.
All this to say that it seems reasonable that those listed among full contributors should have contributed a comparable amount to the rest. If not, maybe they need to put those who don't meet that level in a "Special Thanks" section or something to at least have their name officially associated with the project in some way.
The headline makes it sound as though there's a scandal involving credits that should have been present being removed. The details make it clear there's a policy in the contract about how long you need to be on the project to be in the credits. Sure, that clause in the contract might suck somewhat, but it's not like there's a scandal that people that should have been credited were cut....there's just people who contractually never made the deadline for credits as short term staff, and thus aren't in them. Unless there's more complaints not in the story.
@anzzjam Well said. Completely agree that policies like this could always be reviewed and modified should the need arise.
But I had no idea that most the people commenting here were owners of giant businesses and experts on the intricacies of company management! Lol.
We all have no idea about the details of the situation and should stop pretending this is some huge exposed black corner of game development. Haha
@BAN Why did you respond in such a manner? It is common to have your name in the credits if you were a major contributor to a video game. That is a fact. Yes, they would not pop the game open, but on a resume, you would certainly put you were a credited programmer for such and such. I didn’t even disagree with you, for the most part. This is another reminder for me to stop thinking that people can say something and have someone else agree or disagree in a respectable way. It’s like any job, you list your accomplishments and accolades in your resume. By not being credited, there’s one less thing to put on your resume. I thought it was abundantly clear that it’s not the end of the world nor is it the only metric used when hiring in the video game industry. If money is good enough, why have credits? Who cares, right?
Apologies for typos, sucks typing on my phone.
@invictus4000 Thanks, I appreciate your reply. Yeah, it’s the internet. We are all experts! Except for people that disagree with me, they are charlatans! Hehehe.
@SolidSnake684 Just because gaming is a newer and different medium isnt an excuse for bad practice though.
@NEStalgia Yep, I don’t see this a scandal. This got me thinking about something I never thought about, and I might have not clicked the article without the clickbait headline. So I guess I’m not mad I got scammed, I’m not sure. Another thing to ponder!
Pretty terrible news. Anyone who contributed to the game should be credited.
I actually made an account just to comment on this because this is kind of interesting topic.
I work in film and television (mostly television) and it is a very rare thing to actually get a credit, especially in television. I've gotten credits in indie movies and things I've made, but never on a big Hollywood produced IATSE production. Now, television has a traditionally built in reason, that there is a set timeslot when it is broadcast, so if they credited the hundreds of people who work on an episode it would take up too much of the 22/48 minute run time. Obviously streaming series, movies and video games do not have this limitation, but when you're dealing with contract labor, you're going to have a lot of people moving in and out. For a Hollywood production, hundreds of people can work on an individual episode of television and thousands can work on a feature film. A lot only work for a few days or weeks. Like, some people here are painting it as this oppressive policy to keep workers in line, but it's really not.
My opinion on whether I get credited? I don't really care, I'm just looking to get paid. I don't even watch the majority of what I work on anyways. It was pretty cool for the first few things, seeing my name in the credits, but after that it doesn't really matter. Your name in the credits isn't nearly as important as having your name in cellphones for future work.
This is going to sound a little harsh, but I feel like a bunch of the people who are upset here are people who are in school, or haven't fully entered the working sector yet. Like obviously people hold unique opinions and others in the industry could be upset about this, but even then, I guess I'm cynical because I would assume a lot of those people would be new to the industry.
If I need a reference, I'm going to ask a person I directly worked for. If they don't feel like giving me one, then that's clearly on me. Don't get me wrong sometimes people are jerks, but then I wouldn't go to them anyways. Same as no one is going to watch the credits of something as proof you worked on it. They're going to ask you for a portfolio, or reel, or resume, or whatever. A credit doesn't tell you skill level.
Same as someone here posted that it can be hard to proof you worked on something because the company is difficult to contact. It is undeniable I worked on a TV show, whether I'm credited or not. I have tax records saying that I did, and those tax records will show up on any background check any future employer may run on me. Not that that happens in film that often, it is really a industry based on who you know, and getting them to know you.
Long story short, is people are entitled to their opinions, but if you're going to boycott things, I got news for yeah, you better be willing to boycott essentially every every piece of entertainment that has ever been made.
@ZER0AO Great points. Much of the outage seems to stem from the concept that this is out of form for the industry. It isn’t. Is it right? That’s the more interesting topic. I would say it is okay but only when it is clear what gets you in the credits. To open a can of worms, that jerk that made Minecraft had his name removed. I don’t like that jerk but I think his name should still be in the game, since he was deemed at the time worthy for the credits. Future conduct does not diminish ones contributions to a past project. I think you should want your industry to adapt to the changes as you point out, there is plenty of time and room for all names. But… is that the purpose of credits? I don’t know, though I want to say no. I think there should be a line, but that’s hard to gauge too.
@Realness I got a job at Mercury Steam. I worked as a receptionist for the executive producer for 2 hours then quit. I want my name in the credits too!!!!!11
@Yorumi It is elitism, to some extent, but it’s a standard that exists in some industries. I get what you mean but the question you are asking is not the question at hand.
This is such a non issue, it’s not even funny.
@thenewguy Never said it was, just saying if you wanna make that comparison, then its fair to point out why the music industry is at this point while games are not. I agree, it shouldnt take 50+ years and hundreds of lawsuits before something as simple as writing down everyone's name becomes an industry standard. Hopefully an outside source can help, maybe thru pressure from the console manufacturers, like what Somy did with Cyberpunk getting pulled.
@SolidSnake684 its actually not fair to point out because this is common knowledge and different businesses learn practices from each other all the time.
I remember hearing about mistreatment and harsh conditions of employees during Lords of Shadow 2 as well, I think Mercury steam is probably not a very good company to work for unfortunately.
@anzzjam
I'm almost thirty, so I don't know much about Minecraft. I know the guy sold it to Microsoft for like a billion dollars. It is essentially the same game isn't? So, I don't know why they would remove him from the credits when he created it.
Credits for IATSE productions, which is the main Hollywood union, I think are union regulated. I don't know for sure, I've never actually read it. Being credited is far down the list of things I'd change about the film industry though. You work very long hours (but very well compensated), and it really is an industry that is hard on outsiders breaking in. And because of the nature of the work being contract, it is very easy for you to be blacklisted. Like, I wouldn't say which region I work in on a forum like this because of the off chance it could comeback to haunt me. If you make millions of dollars you can say and do whatever you want, otherwise it's an industry that doesn't reward people who have not established themselves.
At the end of the day it's gig work, if you got a job that's great. If not, go get a job. I'm a grunt. I do grunt work. Hopefully by the time I'm forty I'm not one. If IATSE wants to argue it out the productions that everyone gets a credit, it's really more of a novelty for my friends and family then it does anything for me personally.
I mean hundreds if not thousands of people are involved in making every Big Mac when you think about it. Nobody really cares though.
Though it’s not ideal, I don’t see this as a big deal. It’s up to the company to do what it wants to do, unless there was some breach of contract. The people in this article who are upset are no longer with the company and since their work was done under company time, it is their intellectual property. We also don’t know everything behind the scenes here. How do we know that perhaps maybe some of the people in this article maybe left on bad terms? Anyone here who has ever worked for a company where someone quit or was let go, left for a reason and perhaps that’s why Mercury left them out of the credits too.
Yeah this is absolutely not on. If you work on the game you should be on the credits list. Can’t think of a single viable justification for this.
The policy is there and I think mercury steam is on the right this time, or any other developer for the matter.
@Yorumi That’s fair. Thank you for the thoughtful replies.
It's a senseless policy. I work in the animation industry and everyone on projects I've been a part of are credited. The order starts with the person who made the largest contribution and goes down from there. Easy - problem solved.
Considering how people don’t even sit through the credits [nevermind actually reading it] to begin with unless it’s a “hint of next comic book movie” gimmick or it’s something like Smash Ultimate where it’s an actual mini-game I don’t see this getting much fan backlash traction.
@Drac_Mazoku
I appreciate the kind words. Though I don't want to sound like I was diminishing people who are entering their twenties as I am leaving mine. Passion can be a good thing, reality tends to set in with age though. Though, I do think a problem in this new internet age is people take a passionate stand without understanding the situation.
Remember too this is different than toxic people, or a toxic work environment. If a work place is hostile that's not really excusable. Sometimes it's a reality and you're just working for a paycheck, but that doesn't mean it is right. Manners are manners and harassment is harassment.
Well i wasn't gonna get it anyways
@BlueOcean I'm not defending them at all, what they did is horrible, but if they set out those policies from the beginning, then why the lash out? If they require 25% work done, it's still stupid but it's their rule, i still don't think it's acceptable
@Yorumi Ya I'm not going to read the bulk of this based on this alone:
"first of all I never said the artists weren't valuable, I'm not sure at all where you're getting that from."
You don't know what you're saying and that is very clear. So I'm not going to sit here and read how you're back peddling and making up excuses for your more than inflammatory remarks about how someone should or shouldn't be credited in a game. This has been something already beatin to death in side the industry and discussed ad nauseam between publishers and developers. This isn't acceptable behavior and its a shame that in 2021 we still have companies pulling this kind of garbage. Your comparisons are awful and your stance is just bad.
If your work is in the product, your name should appear in the credits. End story.
@psychoBrew People in the industry absolutely look at the credits, as do their friends and relations. I never thought anybody did until I worked in TV production. Turns out people involved in production almost always watch all the credits, it's one of the ways you keep tabs on people you know.
Yes, you see a headline that says “people who worked on Metroid Dread are not in the end credits” and immediately think “that’s crappy”. But we only have one side of the story from an anonymous person and another who did reveal their name. MercurySteam is based in Spain - perhaps they have different rules when it comes to the credits.
Nintendo could have certainly piped up and asked “we need the names of all persons who worked on the game so we can put them in the credits”. If you actually sat through the credits, you will see that there are maybe 9 or 10 names in the couple hundred displayed on screen that are from Nintendo Japan HQ. I’m sure a whole lot more than that assisted in the development in some fashion from Nintendo proper. Until we know why their names are not in the credits, let’s all put the pitchforks down.
PS: I love how people lately are using the word “abhorrent” all the time now. Mothers starving their children is abhorrent. Game developers who didn’t put certain names in the credits of a game (that almost no one pays attention to) would be considered lousy at best.
@Geobros Amen. We’re not getting the whole story, but outrage gets those clicks. Nintendolife, why not ask Nintendo or MercurySteam for a statement?
@ModdedInkling Mercury Steam worked on the game for four years.
@anzzjam Respond in what manner? Nothing I said was disrespectful or harsh, just expressing disagreement. Sorry, was I not supposed to use sarcasm or something?
I don't agree with Mercury Steams policy, but since that IS their policy and it was known to the devs working on it they don't have much legal grounds to stand on to get their name in there. If the employees, former or otherwise, want to see that policy changed then they should speak out about it before the next game comes out. Sounds like the guy got compensated for his work financially though, so I remain perfectly fine with my purchase of the GoTY.
This has really soured my excitement to purchase the game in the near future. I was really excited to buying it soon due to all the praise I saw it getting. Payday would've been a joy but now it just feels gross...
Btw this isn't me "boycotting" the game or "trying to make a difference" (although it'd be great if I could), I'm just personally saying that I don't think I can actually buy a game in good faith with such awful knowledge on my mind.
It's the entire reason I haven't bought a single Ubisoft game in literal years after hearing about all the criminal allegations and no real sign of change or promise.
The reason I can't see myself buying Dread any time soon isn't to "make a change" but simply because I don't think I can enjoy the game knowing this.
An exaggerated example, but "blood diamonds" for one. They're diamonds that are pretty and worth a bunch but how they're acquired...? Not something you wanna own with that on your conscience...
@Beaucine What did they (Kotaku) get in trouble for?
That’s shady, anyone who worked on the game should be credited, regardless of amount of time spent.
People are also not considering that they should have been aware when signing the paperwork they needed to contribute x amount to be credited. Yes the policy itself is *****, but it’s even more ***** to complain about it after the fact that you were aware of it and accepted the job in the end anyway.
There would have been legal action rather then ranting on Twitter if they had a leg to stand on. An ex employee rant doesn’t poison the whole development.
@Drac_Mazoku I don't understand how you managed to pull "toxic workplace" from my comment, but if it's to do with the exaggerated example I used, then I apologised beforehand and I apologise again.
However, if your response is purely based on that "it's in the policy so it's okay" then you are not the type of person I want to have this debate with.
If their policy was "we credit literally NO ONE for their work in the games we make" then that's an equally bad policy to me.
That's it. It's a bad policy. There's no point trying to strawman in "but the article doesn't say toxic workplace". I literally do not care. It's a company with a bad policy. People deserve credit for their work. Change your policy.
I'm an artist. I like to support other artists and I support a world where artists can be equally compensated for their work. This isn't any different so please try not to paint this as something just because it's "legal" or w/e. If everything was fine and dandy just because it were legal, then there wouldn't be so many issues in the world regarding large companies now would there? But this is a gaming site so let's not go an derail it there now, shall we?
@Edwirichuu OK no problem! I appreciate your clarification. Everyone has an opinion. I recommend you reading the comment above this one, anyway.
@Tasuki that’s pretty petty really. 11 months these people probably didn’t contribute almost anything if their not included period.
@Kyranosaurus I could not have said it better.
Everyone saying they aren’t going to buy the game now because of this needs to get off their woke high horse. These people contributed very little if act anything to the game. They worked in groups and most likely did almost nothing in the end. There is a reason they were not there longer and it isn’t the company. Regardless any contract signed upon hire would state these conditions and is their own fault for quitting or being let go.
The answer is simple. Unionize the industry. Set standards and practices for all employers.
I can see bringing this up to be a topic of controversy, but for some in the comment section to say they won’t buy the game now because some employees had their names absent from the credits is ridiculous. As long as they were paid for their work, that is all they should be owed. They were following their policy after all.
This makes me appreciate Mighty No.9 four hour long credits even more.
So many people have no concept of how any of this works...
By extension the Taco Truck guy outside serving food should get credited in the game as well... Clownish takes
@BAN sorry just saw this. It’s hard for me to think you are talking in a fair manner when you start with lol. It’s laughing at my position, something I would not to you or others.
@CharlieGirl There are many things that are "utterly abhorrent" in this world but being left out of credits is not one of them. People are unfairly treated all the time in the corporate workplace. Is it ok? No. Is it just? Likely not. However, did these folks know the policy and are just using this to get their five minutes in the limelight? Maybe. We only have one side of the story and to call it "abhorrent" is a bit of a stretch. Let's agree to save that for issues of life and death.
@Specter_of-the_OLED I imagine that’s one credits page where not being credited can only be a good thing.
@Dirty0814 It doesn't matter they still contributed.
@Yorumi Because if you work in these kinds of industries, getting a credit is basically like having your stamp on it that says "hey, I made part of this thing that I am proud of being a part of." that you can show to potential employers in the future that will show off your accolades and accomplishments, and let them know that you have been a part of successful and popular projects in the past. If you worked for a grocery store, would it make sense for you to get a "list of credit" stating that you stocked the shelves? Of course not, because future employers aren't going to be looking back at the shelf that you stocked a year ago as a way of looking at your abilities or skillset. In this industry, credits matter a lot, especially after spending 8 months of your life on a single project.
@Kyranosaurus I would recommend against not buying a single game based on this knowledge. The reason is that it would be extremely rare to find a game that properly credits everyone’s work. Any game of this magnitude is an offender. I haven’t purchased this game due to the high price tag. It’s not a boycott I just think Nintendo games have lost their pricing structure of the past. Everything is 60 now. With the loss of a dedicated handheld, games are all 60. I lament this, but it’s not just a Metroid Dread problem. Take the Pokémon remakes. Those are 40 buck games if they were made in the 3ds era and would control better due to the dual screens (impressions show that the loss of the screen is a detriment)
I think that if these folks really have a case against MercurySteam that they can sue for damages instead of trying their case in the "guilty until proven innocent" world of the internet where every corporation is automatically bad and corrupt based on one person's tweet. But they won't because they likely don't have a case.
@Tasuki Any company is going to have some restrictions on how much work you have to do to get credit. Maybe in a case where it has been 11 months of work on a 48 month project, you make an exception. But there's nothing specifically shady about limiting the credit for those who do the vast majority of the work. If anything, I'd say maybe change their term of service to "25% or 6 months, whichever comes first".
@Drac_Mazoku "Please, go read your text again. You're pretty much comparing them with all the horrible allegations Ubisoft had, and also bringing up Blood Diamonds"
I'm really sad that you've refused to acknowledge the disclaimers already made in my original post but I suppose I can't control how you've chosen to interpret that.
For bringing up Ubisoft, I'm giving an example that I don't buy games if there's something (emphasis on "something", not "anything") that I don't like about behind the scenes. The example is for emphasis on my personal beliefs and "proof" of sticking to my word. Sorry if you decided to take that the wrong way, but I couldn't think of a more related scenario whilst typing it.
The blood diamonds... Yes. I don't know how else to say this. I said in the exact same post that it's an "exaggerated example" but you chose to ignore that. I do agree, it's indeed an extreme example which is why I highlighted that fact in hopes people wouldn't take it literally (but here we are, unfortunately).
1/2
2/2 @Drac_Mazoku
The whole, entire point of my comment is to highlight my personal feelings towards this policy. Not everyone feels the same way as I do. I understand that. I respect that.
If I were to finally come up with a good example (different industry) that summarises what I've been trying to say this entire time, it'd be this:
Some people are vegetarians not because they think they can make a difference in the world, but because they can't stand to take part in it. Now to clarify: No, I'm not a vegetarian.
But not everyone is a vegetarian for the exact same reasons. Does that make sense? I'm not telling you, or anyone else that they shouldn't buy Dread. What I am saying though, is that I, personally cannot currently buy the game while knowing they have this policy in place that has affected past employees.
Now I already understand the next point made: "They shouldn't sign up for the job if they expected to get credited".
Now let me say something about the games industry that unfortunately, not a lot of people here understand.
Getting work in the games industry is not easy. Right now, if you want to work for video games, you don't actually have a lot of choice in what you can pick unless you have a lot of connections (which newbies especially will not have).
Whether you think it's fair or not "because it's in writing" I don't think you yourself have ever fully read the terms and conditions to every single thing you've applied to. You take what you can get, under the pretense that you can eventually build a resume that lets you pick the choices you were gunning for. That's how freelance is, unfortunately.
Now, I've given you the super abridged explanation of that hoping I don't have to type too much more but that there should already paint a picture on why some aren't actually in a luxurious position enough to "not take the job". It's a competitive industry. If you don't take a space, someone else will.
This problem isn't exclusive to Metroid. It's a Rockstar policy too and it also sucks. It got complained about. It's an XSeed problem too. It also sucks.
I think too many people misinterpret "outrage" as something they wanna do because they wanna "cancel" people.
Not saying it WILL happen, but all people really want is change (not to contradict my first post, hope is different from thinking you're actually doing it).
I think if people are telling other people they're bad for buying the game for this? Yeah! That's not cool! Tell 'em off because that's their money and their opinion!
But I'm seeing a lot of people here targeting those who are showing disappointment in the policy such as myself.
There shouldn't have to be any "hate train" to justify wanting better. People just want better for other people and I don't think that's a bad thing.
I love Metroid. I want it to succeed (it likely still will, all things considered). However Metroid unfortunately isn't a bigger priority in my books, than fellow artists in the industry. I hope you can understand that. Please have a fantastic day and I hope no one else ruins that for you. We all need a break from the internet sometimes.
@Yorumi thank you. I was thinking the same thing. And playing devils advocate here but I'm sure if the game didn't do so well and wasn't a big title, they probably wouldn't give two shakes about it. No one would.
@rosemo I won't agree to that, no. My use of the word stands.
Company policy wins.
Bought the game, gonna enjoy it very soon.
@Yorumi unless you're living in the wild surviving and have zero influence from civilization you are not the one choosing what is best for you with no constrains. I doubt that though since you're on the internet and on a video game website.
This is the problem. This is why people have no respect for developers. People think the game is made "by Nintendo" instead of the actual hard working "little guys" that never get any attention despite the hours of work they had put into the project to make it the game you love today.
This is also why instead of "Thank you team Sora" we only said "Thank you Sakurai." As if he was the only man grinding away making Smash ultimate. That being said, this isn't just a games industry problem. It happens across all media...but I absolutely hate the mentality that we always have for these kinds of things. "That's how it's always been." It's so defeatist and backwards thinking.
@psychoBrew this. A million times this. Put it on your resume and move on. I’m sure people would love to know you worked somewhere for 8 months and bounced.
@ATaco if Smash sucked, no one would talk about the team, it would all be on Sakurai.
The leader is who gets the praise or complaints. Why? His leadership/direction/vision is what people are working towards/for.
@patbacknitro18 It's not really scummy when it's very well known
Being well known doesn't make something less scummy.
Would it be less scummy if the deadbeat mom told everyone that she wasn't going to pay child support?
@buggysdad The leader is who gets the praise or complaints. Why? His leadership/direction/vision is what people are working towards/for.
That's why I never praise the cast of a great movie, it's not great because of the cast, it's only because of the director. /s
Hmm? Very interesting topic. Other industries that do this or worse is the medical field. If some scientists invents some cure at Johnson&Johnson they are generally not credited. It is the intellectual property of that company. That being said, sometimes they do give credit.
I've also heard that research studies and grants at the ivy league schools are like this too.
@Yorumi no you are saying you don't want anyone making decisions for you. Well society influences you every day in every decision you make.
Futhermore personal responsibility has absolutely nothing to do with employee/employer relationships and business decisions. In fact in this example the employee actually have zero say in what happens with accreditation because the employer has 100% of the control and final say.
I guess you would rather lay down and take it than have to work with others.
This would make more sense if it wasn't based on a percentage of development time imo, but it's kinda lame that you could theoretically work on a game at MercurySteam for just under a year following Dread's development cycle and not get into the credits
I don't have Metroid Dread yet but can you access the credits of the game without playing or beating the game?
If not, that seems like the worst way to get recognition for your work. Surely the industry has better ways because if I was a hiring manager I wouldn't have hours of time to play the game just to find the candidate's name.
@Crono1973 I think I misunderstood your initial comment. You are actually talking about how we don’t know a lot of the development staff on games. I feel like this is like wondering why people know the cast/director/writer, but don’t know animators, costume designers, sound effects people, etc. just the nature of the job - it is in the background, so it is… in the background.
@buggysdad And that's another mindset we should go about correcting. All you did was say is "This is wrong, ergo we must do other wrong things."
Man, that stinks. Hopefully they can resolve the issue sooner rather than later.
Wth is that 25% bs? The guy was there for 8 months, his assets appear in the game. He should freaking be there in the credits!!!
@Realness amm, no.
@ZER0AO couldn't agree more, well said mate
@The-Chosen-one Same boat. Well said!
@ZER0AO Thanks for sharing. Great points!
Welcome to first world problems. This pretty common depending what’s in there contract. Also this seen the movie industry and nobody has been winning about this! Hinting the uncredited information on IMDB.
Also here is small snipped that can be found when one uses google:
“ The early industry had taken efforts to prevent writers from unionizing. Although the SWG was formed in 1933, it encountered resistance until May 1941, when it signed a deal with the studios that gave the Guild, among other rights, the final say on writing credits. The agreement was seen as weak, as it mostly covered the lowest paid writers, and credits were still unfairly given in the compulsory collaboration era when studios employed large numbers of independent writers on projects; at this point, the need for writers to have contributed 33 percent of the final script had been established, which left many out of credits on productions written by committee. The best paid writers, on the other hand, had always been respected and could often elect to work alone because of their status.”
Let’s move on from 1st world problems!
@Yorumi 1. Unionization is not an extreme.
2. You're assuming a union is corrupt.
3. You're telling me to mind my own business when you responded to my just general comment totally unsolicited. Take your own advice bruv.
4. You can live your life however you like. Just collective bargain has helped workers far more than 'personal responsibility' ever has. And that's a fact.
@Drac_Mazoku
No, neither of them. If someone works on it they should get credit.
25%?? what the hell. I'm working in magazineproduction and every single fart that contributes just a phonepic is credited. This isn't just about respect, its also about what customers think. Leaving contributors out never makes a good image. and 25% is just bonkers.
They should just swallow their ***** and patch the credits. I mean its not like anyone really reads them, but its bad if they're artificially cut.
@anzzjam I seem to have offended you
@Yorumi I was wondering the same thing. It’s not like these people weren’t paid for what they did.
I am really bothered by the amount of ignorance in the comments. Anyone who bases their argument on 'Welp, it was in the contract' deserves to be screwed over. Its just few letters ffs. There is no need to implement some dumb 25% rule.
An absolute disgrace. Just put it in. It's just a text file.
I rarely get credited for my contributions at the office. Most people with the company know of course, but just saying: when it's artists, it is suddenly a sensitive topic.
'Oh we are so sorry, you were only 24.9997% part of the developement. You will not be included in credits.'
This is nothing new and has been going on in the film world forever. I can't tell you how many tv shows I worked on I never got an end credit for. Usually a person's start work will say how would you like you name appear in the credits with and asterisk that says credits are at the pure discretion of the producer. I agree everyone who worked on any game movie or music should have a end credit but it's not guaranteed unless you specifically mention it in your contract.
While this is definitely on the very lower end of the scale when it comes to problems within the game industry, it’s still frustrating to see. Even if Mercurysteam are up front about the criteria for being credited…why is that even a thing to begin with? Why is it so difficult to include the names of everyone whose work contributed to the final product?
As far as people saying credits don’t matter though, come off it. Don’t even know why anyone would have to explain why credits are a thing or why they matter in creative industries.
I wouldn't give Vandal too much credit. They're very well known to make ***** news against Nintendo, and now they found a good "scandal" with this, when it seems it was part of their contract clauses, the chance of being included in the credits, and the amount of work the two workers did is not even specified. Someone said those two workers being let go of MercurySteam "speaks bad" about them. It actually speaks about the employees. We're not talking about dozens of workers fired, these are only two, and most likely they were annoying and hard to work with, reason why they spoke with Vandal, instead of another games media.
Not enough info to make a judgment call one way or the other. It's he said, they said at this point.
Though I do agree with @Yorumi extensive points about the elitism of credits in gaming, film and television production. Keep fighting the good fight.
@nessisonett Yeah I feel like this is not only simple logic but also should not be hard to do. They ought to change their bogus policy.
@kducky11
They published an enthusiastic article about Metroid Dread emulation on PC. Lots of people got angry online, hills were erected, and many died on them.
When the guy who worked there for eight months says “is this a mistake?” when he realizes he’s not in the credits I say, “No, it’s not, but you already knew that because you read your company‘s policy manual right?”
@Beaucine Oh that’s all? Lol
@kducky11
It was enough to set Videogame Twitter on fire, yeah. For a few days, at least.
Really can't say anything about this incident in particular when there's little more than Internet hearsay to go on (which isn't what I'd call "reliable evidence.")
But as someone who plans to study game design in Japan, and eventually start a creative social enterprise--game development/design being just one facet--it's something to consider at the very least. I myself am a creative, self-taught as an artist, writer, and photographer; so, I get why due credit is important to give. But since I'm going for a social enterprise and not simply a game studio, that does change things up a bit--by adding extra steps and challenges that I will have to undertake since I do want its foundation to be charity and benevolent work, and not simply to make a profit.
When things like this break news, it's just a reminder to live by higher standards. It's nothing special and certainly nothing that should stir up debate (or maybe flame wars is a better way of putting it).
@Beaucine Well thanks for explaining to me. I don’t use Twitter so I was like ⁉️
@Yorumi “ Why are credits such a big deal? I mean outside movies, music, and video games there aren't huge lists of credits for the work people do. How often have you seen a list of credits on the house someone built, or the people who stocked the shelves at the local grocery store?”
lol
Because you don’t sign NDAs and there’s nothing secret about working for Walmart or building a house while for games/movies/ent. the inability to share your work and secrecy on clients and projects are a big part of the job and your curriculum is literally your portfolio and credits you appear on?
What a weird take.
@meteoroid “Nobody is going to be looking at the credits to offer you a job opportunity. You seriously think companies that are interested in hiring you are going to play a game and then reach the credits, or even watch a YouTube video of the credits, to find out if you are actually on them? That's absolute nonsense.”
This is nonsense. “they won’t play a game till the end to watch credits” well duh?? I mean, obviously no they won’t, no sheeī. That’s not how it works, you’re in the entertainment industry yourself so kinda weird you’d think that. It’s to avoid NDAs especially at the beginning (0/5years) of your career and being credited undoubtedly gives you a jumpstart to get hired over other people at basically any AAA dev out there, especially wheb you don’t work in assets creation but game logic/design.
The Credits to those that built the games should be there regardless how small a part they played. Without them Dread be Dead - plain fact. This is how companies die of a thousands Coding deaths. Making a game requires more then just money People make the games and all involved deserves DUE CREDIT for it. That name list gives them Credit for future job opportunities not just to show they created the game here. They might be the next Steve Jobs or Microsoft think about that when you use Windows or iPhone products.
@rosemo please stop watching judge judy!
@Drac_Mazoku just so you know. An article has just came out in Spain and it is not a great look for mercury steam when it comes to treatment of there staff
@CharlieGirl You wouldnt buy the game because a guy who worked on the game for quite short period of time is annoyed he wasnt in the credits. Seriously? do you know if that was in mercury steams contract? Do you know if the workers were good/bad or indifferent fired or whatever?
If you dont want to buy the game, thats cool but dont hide behind that as a reason because that is just weak.
@BloodNinja it makes you glad you didnt support the whole studio and hundreds of staff because some workers didnt meet the clearly defined parameters for getting a credit in the game?
they got paid and they didnt meet the criteria, i'm sorry how is this something we boycot an entire company over.
Lets just try to hurt the companies employees livelihoods by boycotting someone not meeting the agreed criteria for working with that company!
@kobashi100 treatment of staff could be bad, i dont know, but to be honest, that has no relevance to someone not meeting the criteria for getting in the credits.
Nintendo do not usually asociate with companies that may damage their standing so i would need to see good evidence to suggest they are bad, rather than a couple of statements from disgruntled employees. Because by that measure the company i work for is the worst ever (because we have fired lazy, useless idiots) and they were unhappy about it and tried to bad mouth them. I'm not a company man, i work for the weekend but evidence of wrong doing has to be something tangible. (which it may be, but hopefully you understand what im saying)
still, great game!
@Yorumi see you still can't take your own advice and mind your own business. Really getting a picture of the person you are.
Talking about unions as following authoritarians while you are against democracy in the workplace. OKAAAAAY. You would get a gold medal in mental gymnastics to explain away your nonsense.
Again please take your own advice. Stay out of others business. Don't comment on anyone else's opinions.
@E_maniac I didn’t buy the game because I tried it and didn’t like it. Not supporting their questionable practices is a bonus.
I wouldn't want to be in the credits, cause Dread sucks!!!! Plays nothing like past Metroid games! Samus Returns sucked, and I knew this would suck too. Wish mercurysteam had an earthquake, and their building fell apart, preventing them from making any more garbage games!
Hate the melee counter!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hate you can't use the dpad to move.
Environment is bland!
No exploration, it's all linear and boring!
Stupid emmi robots everywhere.
Tons of cut scenes, and stupid Adam again.
Nintendo fanboys are the worst of all time!
Paid reviews everywhere giving the game a 10. Absolutely disgusting!!!!!
They also ruined Castlevania. This company just doesn't know how to make a REAL Metroidvania. Indie dev's do it a lot better!
I can go on and on, but whatever.
@ATaco If you think it is wrong. I don’t really care if they list every person that worked on something in the credits of the game, film, show, etc. As long as they don’t deny the person worked on something, I’m good. That’s where it matters. No one gets an applicant and pulls up a game to find the credits. This is just pointless drama people in the real world of hiring don’t actually care about.
I also think there is something to be said about a list of - let’s say animators - for Metroid being listed where 30 of them put in years of work, 50-60 hour weeks, blood sweat and tears, and the person who worked there for 1 week being listed with them.
Yeah, nope. Put it on your resume, not making in game credits.
@BloodNinja well thats cool, but if the "questionable business practices" of the company are not naming a temp on the final product when they had a contract stating the terms of employment and what constitutes what, is just ridiculous. Anyone moaning about such things in the media are fools. if they didnt like the terms, dont take the job. end of.
@E_maniac Oh, ok. I get the moaning, but is it ok to just point it out as a sign of something that can improve, either way? Just wondering.
@BloodNinja nothing wrong with pointing it out as something to look at, but there are ways of doing it, this has gotten all out of hand people going mad for something they either dont understand or has nothing to do with them.
I dont know if mercury steam are a good bad or indifferent company to work for, but that isn't the point. In regard to this point they have done absolutely nothing wrong and compared to other companies in the industry may actually be a better one!
I get their disappointment but am I alone in the fact I never read the names in the end credits?
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