Super Smash Bros. is one of Nintendo's most popular franchises, and has sold millions of copies over the decades. Its popularity has resulted in an active and vibrant competitive scene, but it's one that has so far struggled to gain parity with other titles in the realm of eSports, such as Fortnite and Overwatch. As we've covered more than once in the past on this very site, that's because Nintendo isn't supporting the Smash Bros. scene in the same way that other companies do with their titles.
Speaking after his success at the recent Smash Summit 9, Juan "HungryBox" DeBiedma – one of the world's leading Smash players – took the opportunity to call Nintendo out on its lack of support for the scene:
I know this is probably a shot in the dark, but I'm going to try anyway because there's a lot of people watching. I really do wish, if anyone from Nintendo corporate is watching this right now, if anyone is seeing the amount of excitement these sets can get, and everything that goes with it: just give Melee a chance. Even if it's just Ultimate, support the Ultimate scene, support the Smash scene in general.
You have people, day in and day out, streaming content, competing, going to tournaments, and we do all it all grass-roots. We have this Summit because they raised money, and that's great, but Nintendo, I need to say, I love you guys, but you are the only one not putting in resources into the scene. Look at Capcom; look at that celebration. Look at every other game, look at Fortnite.
This is the step that you're missing, and if you did that, the culture, the appreciation that you guys would receive would be, bar none, unlike anything you have received. So, hope you're listening, it's probably a shot in the dark, but please, support Smash Tournaments.
While Nintendo has held competitive events for Smash games in the past, they usually fall within the company's marketing plan for each title, and series head Masahiro Sakurai has previously said that he isn't keen on the ethos of eSports:
The philosophy behind them doesn’t go in line with Nintendo’s philosophy in that some of these players are playing for the prize money...it comes to a point where they’re playing the game for the money, and I feel that kind of direction doesn’t coincide with Nintendo’s view of what games should be.
Nintendo president Shuntaro Furukawa backs up this viewpoint, explaining the lack of financial support earlier this year:
Esports, in which players compete on stage for prize money as an audience watches, demonstrates one of the wonderful charms of video games. It’s not that we’re opposed to it. So that our games can be widely enjoyed by anyone regardless of experience, gender, or age, we want to be able to participate in a wide range of different events. Our strength, what differentiates us from other companies, is this different worldview, not an amount of prize money.
It's worth noting that Kyle "Bugha" Giersdorf, the winner of the 2019 Fortnite World Cup, bagged a staggering $3 million for his achievement, while the player who ranked 20th in that event still walked away with over $100,000. In comparison, DeBiedma won $29,315.30 at Smash Summit 5 in November 2017, which still stands as the record for the most money won in a single Super Smash Bros. Melee tournament.
It WOULD be nice if Nintendo supported the scene. They just really don't want to, I guess.
@HappyMaskedGuy Risky thing to say on a Nintendo-focussed website...
To be fair a lot of those titles that have a big eSport backing have a lot of issues as a result. Time and time again those titles have mechanics introduced aimed at more casual players which then creates issues and outrage in the eSport player base, and vice versa. Not surprised that some companies like Nintendo might want to keep a bit of distance and in turn give themselves the ability to release a game and updates that doesn’t necessarily need to tick every box or rule set that the eSport community is after.
I suspect it’s very challenging to consistently appeal to both audiences, especially when you begin to get financially invested as a sponsor for eSport events.
I mean, Ninty already does their own events for Smash. So really, doesn't this translate to "Please support it with prize money"?
I'm asking a genuine question, I don't understand how it would make a difference.
@DockEllisD It got your click and comment, so I guess it works!
@RedBlueCarrots I’m waiting on a CEASE AND DESIST for my life any day now.
It’s incredible how little they really care about their pro scene considering it kept Melee alive for almost 20 years. Ultimate’s only just taken over from Melee and it’s a perfect opportunity to put more into the scene but they just don’t want to.
HungryBox really rubbed me the wrong way when he was at the Smash tournament Nintendo hosted at an E3 some years ago ... 2015, maybe? He was trash talking Reggie (who admittedly really sucked) but I felt he just took it way too far and it really came off as overly aggressive, arrogant and tone deaf to the mood Nintendo was trying to set.
This again? Didn't some other guy basically say the same about a month back or something?
Nintendo should not have to support $3 million prize tournaments.
To generate more "buzz" (which is the whole point) they should offer exclusive items as prizes such as one-of-a-kind Smash Switch (not the crappy edition they released).
I personally think that's a good enough price for the champion of Smash.
And if they are not a scalper, is a great price to receive directly from Nintendo something uniquely made for you.
Why should they? You're the ones giving Nintendo free advertising for their franchises. They don't /have/ to do squat for your personal tournaments that you call the "pro scene."
@DockEllisD HungryBox uttered these comments over the weekend. We don't own time machines, dude.
"The philosophy behind them doesn’t go in line with Nintendo’s philosophy in that some of these players are playing for the prize money...it comes to a point where they’re playing the game for the money, and I feel that kind of direction doesn’t coincide with Nintendo’s view of what games should be."
Methinks Masahiro Sakurai misunderstands the concept of eSports due to ignorance (i.e. not knowing enough about it to judge). If the competitors enjoy playing the game, and the spectators enjoy watching them - and let's be honest some of these events can be hugely entertaining even just live streaming - then they are still getting FUN and ENTERTAINMENT VALUE out of the game(s).
I was hoping if Ninty did change their tune and support them even just a little more, there would be more likelihood of Mario Kart tournaments, something I'd actually compete in because I suck at the SSB titles, great though they are. But Ninty dance to their own esoteric jazzy Mario-themed tunes, and they're very catchy so they won't be changing them any time soon.
Pretty sure I heard this one before. Regardless haven't other prominent members of the Smash Community revealed that Nintendo actually do a lot to support tournaments but from behind the scenes. This includes ensuring it all works from the legal standpoint, providing setups, monitors, etc.
To say that Nintendo don't do enough is unfair and whilst I think living in a reality where one can make a living playing games is a nice one, I feel like Nintendo are the ones being more realistic here by sticking to their own philosophy.
Nah things are fine where they are. Let the pro scene be its own thing. Capcom embraced competitive gaming too much & now Street Fighter games seem pointless to buy unless you plan on making it to EVO someday.
Even though there obviously are higher up financial reasons for this lack of enthusiasm from Nintendo towards e-sport, I entirely agree with Sakurai's statement: let games be games.
Gaming used to be so much more pleasant because this bs esport/influencer craze fueled by big publishers... The Polygon news feed is a sad abstract of what this leads to.
Or another way to put it another millennial regrets his mastery for yet another useless dedication of time.
Me and this guy disagree. The only thing I think Smash Ultimate needs is a bonus mode where you can unlock the full version of Breath of the Wild 2 for playing as Link three times. Until then, I'll have to be content with a massive, well-made game stuffed with top-quality content. Nintendo, how dare you abuse me in this way!!!!
The game is built for esports, if they want to play it as such go ahead but Nintendo have said many times that's not what the game is about
Why corporatize what is currently a grassroots community-led sport? Corporations lead to ossification and stagnation because they have to consult ten focus groups before doing anything. Imagine if Nintendo started supporting the scene and then they started laying down rules and conditions for that support that the pro players didn't like. "You want official Nintendo prize money? Well then you have to play all stages, all items, smash meters, stage hazards, etc." That would be the death knell of pro Smash. As long as it stays community-led, it can evolve as needed to keep being interesting and relevant.
I’m pleased nintendo don’t use resources on esports. I hope they keep that up. Make games for gamers at home. Don’t pander to these self important streams and esports players.... I’m quite happy they concentrate on making the games
If Nintendo does do it then good for you. But if not then all is good, still.
The franchise was never meant to be an eSport and forcing something into something never yields good results, IMO.
You're basically calling out a company just for the sake of fueling a career they never forced you into in the first place in a scene they never started; using their own product, no less. Unless Nintendo wants something out of this then they have no obligation to do so.
Nintendo supports the scene their own way. Based from how they tackled it in the last few years, which I give them props. They do acknowledge it. Not just how you want it. Which for me is totally fine. I mean, I always had fun watching independent tourney's and official events. I really don't see the problem with the status quo now.
You ultimately play a game because you love playing it. Not [just] because you can get money out of it. Which I think how largely Nintendo thinks of their games. If you're really passionate about the game then you won't let "no support from the game maker" hinder any of that, right?
@Jaalsky Protip; If you're going to insult someone, your insult is better received when spelled correctly.
I think a big problem is Nintendo have never really seen Smash as this big "pro" series or want it to be, Melee was an accident and for better or worse Brawl was a deliberate step in moving a way from that and being more "casual". I think Nintendo just humour the "pro" scene right now because they have no choice but ultimately i get the feeling they would rather Smash remained the game they wanted and intended for it to be.
Find another job if you’re not being paid enough, like the billions of other people that live on this planet. Just because you can playa video game well doesn’t mean Nintendo owes you anything.
I absolutely hate the smash community.
before I clicked the article I decided I would tap out the second Melee was mentioned, 2nd sentence, later than I feared earlier than I hoped.
I used to care, okay care is too strong of a word, I paid attention to this sort of thing but it usually boils down to "but I want money for melee" you just don't get that sort of thing with the other eSports, you don't see people complaining Activision doesn't sponsor Modern Warfare 2 tournaments in 2020.
Do we have to call it esports? When I think of sports I think of someone doing something physical. Not a bunch of people sitting in front of tv's.
@DockEllisD So we're only allowed to cover a topic once?
This is something I am conflicted about. Yes Nintendo could help fund the esport scene for their games. (Splatoon/Smash).
However it will never be with an lot of money. Most esport titles bring in cash by cosmetic or other stuff that help fund that companies esport pot that they invest into it. Nintendo gives most of it dlc away cheap or free. Now the question is do ee want them to fund esports and likely add cosmetic items gor money or keep doing things as they do now with dlc.
Esport is stupid. It's only a marketing tool made to manipulate customers. Real sports are timeless but videogames are just a market with trends. It's normal than Melee is dying the game is super old it's a miracle the competitive community lasted this long. Not even Street Fighter 2 lasted this long. Nintendo is very right here, esport is very manipulative identitary marketing. Not sane for the market.
I never quite understood the whole 'We're giving you free publicity' standpoint. I mean, sure but you're probably getting donations, maybe patreon money too. You probably poo-poo Nintendo every now and then too so really it's not 'free publicity'.
Anyway, Nintendo Life are great and always provide top quality content. They are my go-to site for Nintendo news. I'm so glad they are partnered with Gamer Network who provide some of the best gaming media sites on the internet
(and THAT is how you do free publicity! Nintendo Life, by this logic you owe me a fiver )
I couldn't agree more with Hungrybox.
You have all these other esports alongside smash bros giving decent earnings and then you look at Evo Japan with the prize being a single pro controller for winning a tournament....
Nintendo honestly has a point here, by playing for money it's no longer about having fun but about earning as much money as possible. These Smash Bros competitions are like athletics competitions, the people who participate do so because they really enjoy it and because they happen to be really good at it, the best of the best can earn a bit of prize money but a participant usually pays more to go there than they can win by ranking high. Compare that to Fortnite competitions, which are like football competitions, the people who participate do so mostly because they can earn an enormous amount of money with it, whether they truly enjoy it is another matter. Pro football players clearly enjoy playing football so much that they'll play for a couple of years and then never come near a football again because they've earned more money than everyone in the city they grew up in combined. There are actual schools in places like South Korea where people go to become really good at games like Fortnite, this is not because they necessarily think Fortnite is a really good game but because they want to earn big money. This completely devalues the game's inherent worth.
@RedBlueCarrots Typical of the user. 😅
I'm thinking the same too. And I don't want to make it sound like I'm against it, I'm not, even if I don't get it and don't care about it. If people like it and enjoy it, that's cool. I just think the word "esport" is weird because I don't see the "sport" in it. While I can see a legitimate competition in this, I don't see any "sport".
And on the matter of Nintendo sponsoring these events... Well, Nintendo probably don't see anything they can get in return from this, aside from trouble. I mean, do these people have the arrogance of thinking THEY are the ones who made this franchise popular?
And like someone else said previously, to start supporting them is a one-way ticket that you'll never get out of easily. Imagine if they start funding these tournements, and then back off two or three years later. You'll see some backlash against Nintendo like you wouldn't believe. Also, as someone else said, new Street Fighter iterations seems irrelevant to buy now because they feel like almost entirely pointless if you don't plan on doing rounds of competition publicly. Almost like Capcom steered the series from an enjoyable fighting game to something mostly geared for organized competitions. Which is ok if that's your thing. But I prefer going back to play old SF games these days.
For once, I think Nintendo is doing the smart thing. They want their games to be seen as something everyone can enjoy. Not a game made especially for these competitions. If people want to continue using this game in their events, fine, but it's THEIR decision. Why would Nintendo owe anything to them?
I remember back when Wii Sports was all the rage, there was often a kind of Wii Sports tournament whenever there was some event related to video games. People didn't participate in those to get as much money as they could, they participated because it was fun seeing who was best at waggling the Wiimote to demolish their opponents.
@nintendoknife You make a few good points, but to say it completely devalues the game's inherent worth is a bit of a stretch. I won't disagree that many people play certain games due to the massive prize pools, rather than for the enjoyment of the game. However, they have massive prize pools in the first place because people love the game. So yes, perhaps that one competitor secretly hates the game - but hundreds of thousands of people watching them play love it. Since having kids, I'm forever a casual gamer - but I would still love to see Nintendo support the competitive scene much more.
@HappyMaskedGuy Sending it now. Look for it in your mailbox
If excitement for the game doesn't hold up when there's no money to win, I have a hard time believing it was excitement for the game to begin with. But at least the guy doesn't sound like a demanding crybaby, like the other one.
The pro scene is full of self important crybaby’s who think Nintendo and other companies owe them something.
@HobbitGamer whats with grammar Nazis and cat lovers?
Pro tip people make mistakes grow up. Mistake 👌
@DockEllisD People still talk about it so this site reports on the fact that people are still talking about it. I don't see the problem here.
They made the freaking game.
Nintendo has always been quite clear on this topic. Not sure what this guy is really expecting. They are not going to pay him ever for being good at their game.....
It surprises me that people still do not understand the Nintendo culture. They support gameplay as an entertainment, educational and confidence boosting form of product. Within the confines of tournaments they feel that winning is the achievement not the pursuit of a financial prize. Sure they need to make a profit but they are still at heart a toy company.
The person complaining needs to man up and go where his desires lay. He should not try to force others to support his needs. Nintendo never offered you fame and riches, only entertainment and fun.
I’d tell him: move on fat ass!
@roadrunner343 Perhaps there should be games like FIFA but instead of watching two teams of footballers play a match of football, you watch teams of video gamers play a video game.
I remember that some time ago, there was some buzz around the internet about why Nintendo does not offer prize money.
It was said that if Nintendo offers money as prizes for tournaments, people under the age of 18 wouldn´t be allowed to participate in those tournaments since in Japan, these events would be considered gambling and Nintendo does not want to prevent minors to enjoy these events.
@nintendoknife It doesn't really matter if you or I think it's nonsensical to watch esports or not, the statement was that it devalues the game - when clearly, there's tons of people that enjoy watching esports. But, let me know when I can watch the real life equivalent of Smash Bros or Starcaft 2 =)
@zekepliskin nah Sakurai gets it. He played Street Fighter and King of Fighters in the arcade. He just does not see Smash that way as it's his baby and his right, but he does add elements in to allow it to be played competitively which is far more than he did during Melee and Brawl. Melee's competitive mechanics were oversights, bugs and a rushed development.
But, Nintendo wants to stay out of drama that eSports can cause. Or if an endorsed fighter says something on social media they don't want to be seen as liable or endorsing those comments if they don't.take action. I mean look at the mess Blizzard was in for Hearthstone and Hong Kong not that long ago. I don't think Nintendo wants any part of that. They also, so endorse competitive scene with shoutouts and promotions... They just rather avoid being overly hands on with it.
"Pay me for playing your game"
I don't think Nintendo owes anyone. They don't make games to bring them to eSports. They have always been focused on the consumer and in-home aspects of their products.
Strange how Nintendo supports the esport Splatoon Scene competitively mostly on Japan, therefore this statements dont make any sort of sense, but hey its 2020 where is da Netflix APP?
Seeing there have been Smash Tournaments for 20 years or so and people have been happy to compete without a prize fund for that time, you have to ask- why would Nintendo start now?
@Smigit so splatoon does not exist?
The only resources that Nintendo should be offering these people is deodorant and perhaps the option to speak to a psychologist.
@roadrunner343 I don't think it's nonsensical to enjoy watching people be really good at something, whether it's throwing a discus really far in real life or 360 noscoping their opponents in a shooter, I just dislike when the focus for the participants is no longer on the game but on the prize money. The value of watching people play a game is not the same as the value of playing the game, though. Most people enjoy eating hotdogs, but the enjoyment people get out of watching a hotdog eating competition probably doesn't stem from them liking hotdogs.
@LUIGITORNADO: How about no. I have a job but that doesn’t mean every other person needs to be just like me. I’d rather these pro smash players continue to practice and get better so when I watch the tournament it’s as glorious and epic because it’s built on tens of thousands of hours of practice! Don’t tell them to get a job! By doing so you are killing my entertainment and the ability to see my favorite game played at the top level. How come people don’t realize this?
@nintendoknife I think that's a bit of an unfair comparison - people watching hotdog eating contests probably are not typically hotdog aficionados, their interest likely lies in the capabilities of the human body. It's highly unlikely that there are very many people that hate football, soccer, basketball, etc... and yet love watching the sport. So I do think the two are typically closely related. I understand your point, and would prefer if the participants actually care about the game, but in the end, it's the community as a whole that matters to me.
You have people, day in and day out, streaming content, competing, going to tournaments, and we do all it all grass-roots. We have this Summit because they raised money, and that's great, but Nintendo, I need to say, I love you guys, but you are the only one not putting in resources into the scene. Look at Capcom; look at that celebration. Look at every other game, look at Fortnite.
Dude Nintendo is too busy making the next Switch, Metroid Prime 4, planning a Nintendo Direct, planning to open a theme park, planning to give us more new and retro games, planning to give us more contents with their NSO, planning to make new IPs, planning to give us more fighters for Smash Ultimate, etc. They don't have time to come and watch little children whining and crying about who's better at what and who's not. Just be glad they made these happen for you guys and move on. While you're at home ranting and streaming games for free money, Nintendo is busy making the next big game/console.
Isn’t it a bit incongruous for Nintendo to say their games aren’t about the money while seeking maximum profits? Who are they kidding with lines like that? The corporation is a cold entity driven by accumulation. If there was enough profit in prize money, Nintendo would be there. Just like the horrible gambling in their mobile apps. Very disingenuous.
Nothing against e-Sports but I support Nintendo's in this stance.
Send these clowns all copies of a serious fighting game, not an intentionally-silly party game, and then at long last stop paying any attention to them.
It's fascinating to me sometimes how little an interest in esports has trickled down to the audience that likes the games being played. That's not a judgement on anyone who doesn't enjoy esports, you don't have to, but it is fascinating that on a Nintendo fansite, the user response to esports articles on Nintendo games is almost exclusively negative. That seems weird. Something is being lost in advertising, I suspect? I wonder if it's the esports tag at some point? Because if I just said "watch the best players of Smash Ultimate compete," I don't think that would have the same negative idea with it? But clearly people who like Smash Bros. think negatively of competitive Smash, even of relatively likable and respected players in the scene like Hungrybox, MKLeo, and Esam.
The reality is this, and I'm not saying this is good or bad in itself: because Smash Bros. prize pots are basically non-existent, money comes from two places: being sponsored by corporations and from content creation on Twitch and YouTube. Corporations often see players' value as being based on content creation too because that's where the money is. That's not bad per se, but it creates an economic motivation to play enough to be recognized as a good player, then use that reputation to build YouTube and Twitch channels to have a steady income.
Larger prize pots would help top players like MKLeo and Samsora and Mars get income from doing well at major tourneys. That leaves top players more time to attend smaller tourneys where they get practice and more importantly, everyone else gets practice against them. Currently, nobody is competing for the money because there's barely any. If there were larger prize pots, it would basically really effect the 20-30 players who already consistently place top 8 at majors. So the main effect is allowing those players to put more time into practicing and competing. That has positive and negative effects on the scene: it means the top have another advantage, but also gives the advantage to top 100 players of playing top 20 players more often. I'm torn myself: I'd rather see more effort to let people who want to watch good competitive Smash support tourneys and players like with Summit.
Nintendo stops caring about their customers after they bought the game...
Again, I'm not necessarily pro-Nintendo prize pools, but the idea that Nintendo is too busy making games and consoles to support competitive esports doesn't make any sense. That's what marketing departments are for. Setting a marketing team on supporting competitive Nintendo esports doesn't take any developers away from console or game development any more than making an advertisement or setting up a mall tour does. Those staff wouldn't be working on developing BotW 2 if they weren't working on a marketing project because they're trained in marketing, not programming.
The question Nintendo would have to ask is whether they'll make enough from people buying Nintendo games and products specifically because Nintendo sponsored competitive games like Smash and Splatoon to outweigh the cost of the marketing employees required to maintain that sponsorship and support. As well as whether those marketing resources would make more if allocated elsewhere: would they make more planning a tour of Best Buys or something for Animal Crossing New Horizons with those employees then planning and staffing a Nintendo sponsored Smash Bros tourney. Would they make a profit - if so, those employees are paying for themselves and they could theoretically take that profit and pay for more marketing projects for other games or for more development staff - and would they make more of a profit elsewhere?
I'd suspect that competitive Smash Bros if marketed well could convince some people who don't have a Switch to get a Switch to play Smash Bros, but probably wouldn't bring many people who have Switches but not Smash Ultimate to buy Smash Ultimate. I'd be skeptical of the advantage for Nintendo unless someplace like ESPN picked up Smash tourneys consistently simply because I suspect most of the fanbase for competitive Smash Ultimate already owns Smash Ultimate and a Switch.
I can see the appeal of Melee as nostalgia of something, and occasional small tournaments would be nice....but OFFICIAL Melee tournaments in 2020 when we have Ultimate is pretty...dumb. I can see the comparisons to MVC2 being made and I agree, but they shouldnt have as much fame or effort as ultimate put into the tournaments
Im not a fan of esports at all in general. Didnt someone throw a crab at this fellow during a smash bros torny once. Like yeah i can see why nintendo dont want in on that toxic scene with their fighting party game. I love smssh but it wasnt designed for what they want it to be and Nintendo doesnt need to support them if it doesnt want to. It really just comes off as i want this thing i choose to gave me more cash prize money.
Translates to. I want more money from Nintendo.
@HeyItsFlapjack wait you're being sarcastic right...? Please tell me you actually weren't offended by the banter between Hbox and Reggie....
Do you think Reggie was not into it??? Reggie literally said, "next time I'll come up here and kick your ass!". It was all for fun and Reggie was having a blast. Hbox knows Reggie better than any other Nintendo fan. They even sat together at The Game Awards banquet one year and had a ball
@Yorumi and it's not helped by how sites like this basically only ever post controversial esports news because it brings in negative comments and engagement, which drives a reputation that esports is only negative, which drives more negative engagement the next time a negative esports article is posted.
There's rarely articles like say, "Monthly Nintendo Esports Roundup: There were these tourneys this month in these 1st and 3rd Party Nintendo games, here are the highlights, and these players won!" I would read those articles and it would be something to post on slow newsdays, but I suspect NL doesn't get as much engagement with that kind of content as with negative Esports headlines. That's a difficulty with ad driven media across the board: negative content gets more money, so there's financial motivation to create negative content.
While I disagree with most of the comments here because Nintendo Life readers don't really know much about competitive Smash in general, let alone Melee, I have to agree with one point:
Hbox really shouldn't be asking Nintendo for pot bonuses. They just won't do it; they've stated that several times. Maybe they can help in other ways, but pouring money into a pot bonus for the best players isn't something they're interested in.
Personally, I think Hbox should be asking Nintendo to port Melee to the Switch or something like that. Making Melee more accessible would potentially bring in more players at tournaments. More players at tournaments increases the pot anyways. Currently, Melee is extremely hard to get into. You typically need a CRT, a copy of the game (an expensive game for being so old), and an old Nintendo system and controller. Even if you're going the emulation route, setting all that up is a pain for most people not in the know. While Nintendo is reluctant to pouring money into the scene, I don't see why they would have any issue with porting Melee to the Switch and making money off the people who buy it.
@Dodger: Your saying everything I want to say but you’re doing it even better. Thank you!
@Snivy: Also very true and well put. I do think however putting a little money (Nintendo has plenty) into the tournament pots could drum up even more interest than there is and ultimately grow the Smash fan base even more than it is.
@Riderkicker I don't know why people have this idea in their mind that if the competitive scene of a game is embraced and succeeds, then people can no longer enjoy it as a casual game. Just look at the Mortal Kombat games; yes they have a competitive scene, but they also have a huge casual playerbase. Nintendo embracing competitive Smash wouldn't mean that items will be removed from the next game, don't worry lol
@ShadowSniper7 I'm definitely not opposed to pot bonuses, I'm just saying that Nintendo is probably more willing to support the competitive scene in other ways at this point in time
@Snivy102 I got the idea from watching a youtube video of a 6 month old baby beat the Street Fighter V story mode because the devs were too focused on making things competitive instead of enjoyable for us single-playing casuals. No way that kid could have done that with Alpha 3.
@nintendoknife ya but the people that win those tournaments don't spend thousands of hours of their lives perfecting the "waggle of the wiimote" and learning the intricacies and strategy that Wii Sports could potentially offer lol
@Riderkicker so you're assuming the same will happen with Smash? Can you give an example of what might happen to Smash that will make it less enjoyable for casual players, due to Nintendo embracing the competitive side of things? I'll have you know that Melee is actually a fun casual game. I know it's hard to believe because it's known for its competitive scene, but Melee wasn't the best selling game on the GameCube because of its competitive capabilities
@retro_player_22 Capcom while not a big as Nintendo is still a large third-party with a wide array of other franchises that are in active development at any given time, Namco Bandai is also the same way.
They both support their fighting games with sponsored tournaments and even leagues and tours for Street Fighter V, Tekken 7, Soul Calibur VI, and Dragon Ball Fighter Z.
Saying Nintendo can't put a bit of money into a pot and support pro Smash Players is silly. How is supporting Smash in tournaments going to hurt the rest of their business. Do you think they are going to shut down Retro Studios just to sponsor some Smash Tournaments?
All Smash Players want is the same level of support Namco Bandai, Capcom, Tecmo Koei, and Warner Brothers(or Netherealm Studios) give to their fighting games.
If they can do it, why can't Nintendo?
Hell, let's take Warner Brothers, which is part of a much larger company than Nintendo, and has their hands in a lot more cookie jars then Nintendo does. They support their fighting games with tours and sponsored tournaments.
That's all Smash Bros players are asking for.
@nessisonett Oooh I did wonder how my copy of Melee hadn't evaporated into mist! Thanks! 🤣
Smash Bros. may work as a competitive game, but it isn't meant to be taken this seriously. That isn't what Nintendo made the series for. I respect the decision to more or less leave it to the players to organize things for themselves if they want to play it that way.
It's like making delicious pizzas, then finding out there is a competitive pizza tossing scene that uses your pizzas because they are incredibly aerodynamic, and people spend thousands of hours practicing this for some reason and stake their livelihood on it, and now they are mad at you for not organizing and giving prize money to the winners of the pizza tossing contests.
What exactly does Nintendo have to gain from putting money into the Smash Bros. scene? It's already the best selling fighting game of all time.
@Caryslan "How is supporting Smash in tournaments going to hurt the rest of their business"
How is supporting Smash Tournaments going to benefit their business? The game it selling like mad without them needing to run any tournament sponsorship.
I'm on the side of Nintendo with this. Watching someone play for money isn't my scene and I can fully understand why they don't want to hand out money to these people.
This just reads to me like the esports version of a streamer/influencer expecting hand outs and more money just because they use the product. I'd be interested in seeing the response if Nintendo did support Smash tournaments in any way besides cash/pot bonuses; like simply hosting it, paying for the venue or whatever with no money at all going to prizes. I'd bet the response wouldn't be that good.
Honestly Nintendo should just leave it as is. Smash is selling fine on its own, and the community really doesn't even need Nintendo to keep up what it's got going on.
I understand the interest but I don't think players really understand just how much they are asking. It's one thing to hold a grassroots tournament in one city or region even, it's another thing to set up and run a global league for a game. Even just setting up in English and Japanese, and snubbing everyone else, would require an enormous amount of work. Dozens, maybe even hundreds of people, a huge cash influx... There's probably completely different legalities to set up with lawyers, and liability issues...
I'm not saying Nintendo couldn't do it, but that I kinda understand their reluctance. Smash is already a huge money maker on its own, it probably seems to Nintendo that the cost of setting up that official esports scene would not proportionately increase their profits. If anything, the financial drain might actually cost more than it could earn.
Considering the Esports scene is in its infancy and still rife with toxic behavior, con men and other deplorables letting it stay grass roots is just fine, Nintendo doesn't have to sponsor anything they dont want to do.
@Heavyarms55 There really is no financial incentive for Nintendo to do it. That and eSports is still a very young scene and I just don't think Nintendo wants to go hands on. Because if Nintendo were to run tournaments and put up prize money they'd want far more control (which they should because at that point its their money and resources going into it) and that can stiffen the creativity and growth of the scene. I think the way they are handling it is fine for now and if/when they need to they'll take the reigns. No need to rush because we have no guarantees that the eSports model where the makers are supporting it has long term viability. We do know that the natural scene is through 3rd party sponsors.
Like look at real life sports like hockey, basketball and American football. These pro organizations like the NHL, NBA, NFL, and CFL did not start due to big money being infused into it from the infancy. They slowly grew into self-sustainability then into being owned by billionaires and mega-corporations. And when leagues just started due to big money wanting a slice of the pie, WHA, or AAF or the XFL (2001) they died due to not being sustainable and were hemorrhaging money because they got too big too fast and there was not a big enough home-grown market to support them. We don't know if eSports can do that, and if they are not sustainable on their own or turn a profit on their own than why should Nintendo put up their own money and resources over a venture that will lose them money.
The kicker is that the grass-roots scenes have made it this far despite Nintendo's lack of major support.
Yeah, it would be nice to get that sweet pot bonus and donated equipment that all the other games are getting. But opening the doors towards that can be a monkey's paw. Especially if you try to coerce a company that may not have the same philosophies/passion that those running the scenes do.
Maybe it could be everything beyond your wildest dreams... Or it could be a corporate takeover of everything you worked so hard to build up. I support anyone who has the guts to advocate for what they believe in, but be careful what you wish for.
@nessisonett smash would have stayed alive without the pro scene. The pro scene is nothing more than people wanting to monitize themselves.
'get a job' comes to mind
Nintendo doesn't care about gaming. They only care about $$$.
Used to be different. They won't see a dime from me though.
Nintendo is in the business of making video games for profit, NOT paying obsessive compulsive nerds.
@Mambitos I wasn’t aware Nintendo supported Splatoon particularly different to Smash when it comes to eSport or that it was a particularly big title in that scene?
@F-ZeroX lol because you think esport isn't about making $$$ by ruining the life of the contestant who loose competitions?
Said this before and will continue to say it. It is not Nintendo’s responsibility to prop up your business model through sponsorship. If you believe in your product charge admission, pay-per-view fees, or tourney registration fees. Find other sponsors. If you cannot do those things, then perhaps you aren’t as valuable to the world as you think.
Likewise just because company A chooses to participate and sees value in something, doesn’t automatically make the value proposition worthwhile. Capcom‘a model depends on tournaments to advertise the Newest of their 60+ revisions to their fighting games (which make up a significant portion of profits). Nintendo’s model doesn’t really need any additional publicity to sell their games.
Skimmed the comments so I'm probably missing a few thoughts, but I agree with the opinion that Nintendo has no obligation to financially support the competitive Smash Bros community. They have no obligation to support any any eSport, for that matter.
@Smigit I AM not sure about prize pools , but organization wise I am sure its on Nintendo's side even the host are the same from the concerts.
Melee player, so doesn't count
@glaemay No because Nintendo is about easy cash grabs, not investments, ever since the Wii. They've taken it so far now, execs should be trialed as criminals: https://knowtechie.com/nintendo-mobile-game-monetization-sucks-way-more-than-you-realized/
If you think the other guy "ruins your life" if you lose a game, then competitive play is not for you. But again Nintendo is absent where other companies are. Funny how people in here will just mindlessly defend anything Nintendo does and come up with excuses.
@F-ZeroX Ok go give your money to Apple and Samsung I'm sure they'll use that money to fund great content lol
You couldn't find a dumber picture of Mango?
@glaemay Uhhh...? They're unethical and I don't want any of their products. Wtf does that have to do with Nintendo though.
Nintendo has supported Smash Tournaments by hosting their own. Nintendo World Championships, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Invitational, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate World Championship 3v3 just to name a few. HungryBox even competed against Reggie in the Nintendo World Championships. Yeah, so shut up HungryBox.
Haha! So in summary: A guy who won a Smash tournament wants the prize money to be a lot more! Hahaha! Who'da thought it huh! lmao
@jco83 Keep laughing while Nintendo is made irrelevant in the space. They want to pluck the fruits but they don't want to invest.
@F-ZeroX You were talking about mobile gaming. These companies take most of the profits from mobile gaming. Nintendo is 100% right to scam the audience of this market. They should even scam them more.
@F-ZeroX They don't share the ethos of making it focused on prize money
@glaemay That is so wrong. If you rob people you get punished in a fair justice system. And they're targeting kids. Disgusting.
@jco83 Alright, but esports and streaming have taken off big and Nintendo's attitude has been backwards, as they have been with online functionality and modern console features. So different from 90's Nintendo which felt like it was leading the way.
Edit: Dunno if you've seen the Smash Bros documentary series. At one point they got Melee voted back into Evo and Nintendo tried to block it. So you can play their games but not too long, 'cause you need to move on and buy the next thing and the next thing. That just rubs me the wrong way.
Nintendo doesn't have to put a dime into Smash esports at all. You do that to get more players to buy and play your game. Smash's success is already there even without Nintendo giving cash, so why should they? Hey, no one's forcing Smash pros to play the game. They can always learn Fortnite or DotA 2 if they're in it for cash. The sheer number of players playing Smash means that top pros can move on to more financially-rewarding games and there would still be other people who'll replace them easy.
@F-ZeroX that rubs me the wrong way also 😠
@dumdum Maybe some players just love the game, but lament the fact it's hard to make a career out of. More people would flock to it too, since reward creates incentive.
Smash's establishment as an esport is remarkable in/and of itself, since it was all grassroots-based anyway, and happened despite Nintendo, not because of.
“When the winds of change blow, some build walls and others build windmills.”
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