From now until the start of the new year we're going to be republishing some of what we feel are our best features of 2015. Hopefully this will offer the chance for newer readers to catch up on content they might have missed and allow long-time fans to reacquaint themselves with features they enjoyed the first time around. Today's feature is Alan Lopez's excellent exposé on the trials and tribulations of professional Smash Bros. players.
"How much money do you make a year?"
ZeRo: "I'd say right now, I'm on the 40k range a year."
"If you stripped away all your YouTube and Sponsorship earnings, how much do you think you make just from tournaments?"
ZeRo: "I'd say I make 15 thousand dollars a year. And I pretty much win everything I go to."
There is a meme as old as time that still sometimes circulates the internet. A picture of a professionally lit stadium decked out with giant projector screens and thousands of screaming fans sits atop a caption that reads "StarCraft Tournament". The picture directly juxtaposed to its left features a slumped over man wearing a non-flattering Luigi costume and adjacent a single person. Their purple Gamecube is visible atop a fold out table, and their caption reads: "Smash Bros. Tournament".
What does this image really mean? How exactly is Smash Bros. not on the same level as other competitively played video games, or "eSports", as they are often referred to?
To begin to tear down that misconception that Smash is figuratively a poor man's sport, understand that while Smash Bros. as a fighting video game is certainly designed for the everyday player, Super Smash Bros. as an eSport is a game that lends itself well to intense competition.
"It…seems innately watchable as a spectator sport." said pro modder and Smash player Kyle "Thinkaman" Brockman to Nintendo Life.
If there exists a checklist for what makes a game a candidate for high-level play, Nintendo's all-star fighter covers quite a many of its bases: All titles, no matter how debated, bring in consistent results by its players. Matches are kinetic and colourful. All Smash games are thoroughly customizable throughout vast oceans of detailed menus. A deep permutation of matchups creates intriguing gameplay all throughout the series' four titles, and mastering them can take years of intense dedication to their craft.
And most importantly to its vitality, Smash Bros. is a video game whose hardcore fans have collectively hammered together a hefty resume that includes over a decade of impassioned, grassroots competitions.
And yet compared to almost every other major game title with sustained success, it absolutely lives up to that offered up turn-of-phrase: Smash is literally a poor man's sport.
"…there's minimal support from larger organizing bodies, leaving both Melee and Smash 4 as half-baked wannabe eSports. When you look at the numbers, there's no way around it."
And there are lots of numbers to look at, beginning with this one: Why is "Zer0", very arguably the best overall player in a multi-million dollar, franchised phenomenon, making exactly the same amount of money as anyone else would make with a minimum wage job?
Well, it depends on who you ask.
Playing for Keeps
eSports as a concept is at a cultural crossroads.
As with all new domains, mass resistance is the mark of a grand entrance. For a primer on the debate over eSports, search the internet for what constitutes a "sport". Study closely the qualifier of "athleticism" and the slippery slope it induces. Check out the history of chess's sporting classification. And If the mind wanders to the question of whether or not gamers should be expecting money for playing a video game, recall the similar debates that have occurred (and continue to do so) regarding professional sports during the last century, as well as the collegiate sports of today.
Its classification is moot here. Video games today make up a chunk of the entertainment industry that is expanding at hyper speeds. If you wanted to bristle back detractors, know this: the average NFL team worth was rated at $1.4 billion in 2014, while the 20 biggest soccer teams averaged $1.16 billion in net worth in 2014.
Makers of Candy Crush King Interactive were worth $7 billion in 2014. And that's during the downward slope of its popularity.
Whatever you want to call it, competitive gaming is a major part of an emerging pastime that is only getting bigger: the global market for video games, in major part to mobile integration, is shaping up to eclipse over $100 billion by 2017, and the competitive side of that pie rakes in millions of dollars annually thanks to pro organizations like ESL and Team Liquid whose sole existence is for capitalizing on the ways people consume pro gaming, and who they consume.
Super Smash Bros., by almost all measures, ranks dead last in every financial category related to high level gameplay for long running titles.
"esportsearnings.com" is a highly cited online database that keeps numbers on how much money is being awarded in the realm of eSports. These earnings are not indicative of incentives or - in some cases - salaries, but purely prize money as reported through online sources. One can sort graphs by individual game, player and number of major tournaments, among others. The Super Smash Bros. series is certainly listed among the giants, but the numbers are not flattering.
According to the database, major tournaments have collectively paid out $432,964.12 in Super Smash Bros. Melee's entire history. As a reference point, in the top 100 single game earnings category, all 100 instances have at least pulled in close to half of that 400k - to individual players.
Of all competitively played games, Super Smash Bros. Melee currently sits near the middle of the pack in overall earnings, but that is with the aid of an astounding 173 major tournaments conducted. Every other title (with two or three major exceptions) currently lists only between 1-3 dozen major tournaments to their names. And no other Smash Bros. title outside Melee has made the list.
And if you search for highest paid individual players? The first Smash Bros. related player comes in at #332: Mew2King. His $78,130.21 from major tournaments doesn't look too shabby, until you consider he has been playing the game competitively for about a decade's time. Not to mention that his earnings include flirting with being the best in the world across all different Smash Bros. titles.
In a Yacht sized party of overwhelming sums of money, nobody is getting paid in a big way to play Smash Bros.
Two Sides of the Same Coin
And yet, Smash Bros., thanks in large part to Melee's endurance and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U's high popularity, continues to pull in extremely strong attendance numbers in the major spaces that it's allowed to flourish.
EVO is known as many as one of the première tournament series across multiple fighting titles, and in 2014 Melee's paid entrants were just shy of 1000 individual players. That huge total was good for third highest (albeit a virtual second place tie with Marvel Vs. Capcom 3), distant only behind Ultra Street Fighter 4, and almost twice as much as the next closest game.
This all following the events of EVO 2013, in which fans raised over $100,000 for breast cancer research in order to claim the circuit's final game slot, an opportunity it has since run away with to the tune of majorly successful EVO tenures since. These events were not in isolation; popular gaming event "Apex" was host to an impressive 200 smashers in 2009, rapidly growing year by year to the over 1000 entrants it featured in 2015.
So if the interest is consistently there, what's the hold up?
"Fighting games have always had a tough time finding sponsorship deals, which is a main source of revenue for tournaments and players. PC games are sponsored by tech companies that can sell computer hardware and peripherals, but console games don't have that," said Frank Lantz to Nintendo Life.
Frank Lantz is the director of the New York University Game Center. He recently spoke at NYC's Games for Change 2015 event about eSports, a topic for which he sees as richly complex in both design, and in this case, social ramifications.
"(W)ithin fighting games, Smash is a smaller, less organized scene, because of the lack of publisher support for competitive play and the grassroots nature of the community."
"Some players make money, but many don't…It's not a career path I would recommend to many, but for some people it ends up being lucrative and rewarding."
It is a not-so-secret truth that the majority of those who DO make money playing video games are doing so not solely from tournament winnings, but from online video streaming on services such as Twitch and YouTube. Among the more cynical, game expertise is seen solely as a means to internet revenue, not championships or trophies. Those who play StarCraft and League of Legends exemplify this trend through their thousands of subscribers and donors who fawn over top players' streaming channels. But with a game that is so short on big sponsorships, as illustrated to Nintendo Life by ZeRo, internet streaming is literally the only way to translate Smash skills into even an above poverty line income.
As Zer0 explained, "I go to a minimum of four tournaments a month, often 10+, locals, or anything I can find. I have to do everything to (keep up)."
Turning Smash Into Cash
While the likes of games like Counter-Strike and DOTA2 - with their combined outputs of over $34 million dollars of prize money to date - may be an unreachable standard, could Super Smash Bros. still obtain the success of its console cohorts like Call of Duty and Halo?
The problem does not lie within the game itself; Smash is an impeccably, if not historically designed title. All four titles, including Super Smash Bros. 64 and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, have featured an impressive amount of fan dedication in unearthing the most specific of their gameplay combinations. Super Smash Bros. Melee in particular is so nuanced in its mechanics that top players have gone as far as to warn against long term playing due to hand related health hazards. This is unfortunately an issue Super Smash Bros. creator himself, Masahiro Sakurai, has developed in recent years.
While there is currently no research to back up this claim, it is certainly within reasonable debate to include Super Smash Bros. Melee as perhaps the most demanding and intricate video game played at the professional level. And that is quite a statement to consider.
So if the problem lies not within the potential of the game itself, what could be done to better celebrate the game's impressive mastering?
The roadblocks mostly all come back to its creators.
In 2013, Nintendo nearly derailed Super Smash Bros. underdog inclusion at EVO 2013 by demanding that they shut down the entire event, presumably after it had learned of its existence. Bad press forced it to reconsider, and the event went on to be the success that is now remembered.
The following year, Nintendo announced the E3 "Super Smash Bros. Invitational", an event held in Los Angeles where a sample of top players faced off in Nintendo's then brand new title, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U.
To be clear, all of the participants publicly lauded Nintendo for holding the big event. There were kudos in both social media and within the press for Nintendo's about-face on publicized tournaments. And the event itself was fairly well attended and cleverly pushed out through Nintendo's media channels.
But this grand gesture was just that: a gesture. The ruleset was specifically adjusted to show off Nintendo's brand new game, hardly the players' skill sets. Virtually all tournament standards were set aside to more perfectly highlight the peaks of Nintendo's new blockbuster. The tournament played out as a giant commercial.
This is Nintendo in a nutshell. Like many other enduring corporations, it works towards a bottom line most of all. Profits for others are, at best, less money for its own coffers, and at worst people profiting off of its own work.
Nintendo president Reggie Fils-Aime said in a 2014 interview, "We don't think streaming 30 minutes of gameplay by itself is a lot of fun." In the face of the entire game playing populace's contradiction to this statement, this could better be read as Nintendo not being able to monetize Twitch streaming. Nintendo is taking its streaming ball and going home. It is also likely its current console, the Wii U, is not powerful enough to satisfactorily let Nintendo in on the action, which was not anticipated during its development.
In the same vein, early in 2015, Nintendo updated its YouTube policies to include such Draconian measures as only allowing pre-selected Nintendo titles to be monetised, as well as mandating the deletion of previous videos on a channel that don't show authorised Nintendo content.
All three major revenue sources for gaming professionals: Twitch, YouTube, and to a large extent professional circuits, are either off the table or highly inconvenienced for pro Smash players.
Nintendo could take the lead of, for example, game maker Blizzard by producing its own version of the highly successful "BlizzCon", even while maintaining its stance of cutting out the revenue of internet streaming. BlizzCon is a yearly, ticketed event held in America where Blizzard fans come together to compete via highly tuned rulesets already vetted by the pros. In addition to the tournaments, attendees are treated to talks by industry figures, contests, advertisements and demos for new games and expansions, and all the merchandizing and press that comes alongside any huge event.
And yet, this compromise would still ultimately go against the overall philosophies of Nintendo and its game makers - that competition is best kept to a minimum.
Thus, Nintendo's marketing instead hones in on mall tours, fun but gimmicky events, and promotions like Best Buy demos and Comic-Con booths. These things are not sponsored to promote a community surrounding competition, but instead, are sponsored by Nintendo itself to promote a community around its latest game.
Nintendo does not release detailed game patch notes, rarely answers to fans pleas for nuanced gameplay changes, and opposes fan-made mods.
And it wouldn't want it any other way.
Frank Lantz continues - "on the one hand Nintendo's active antagonism towards competitive Smash has, ironically, been the galvanizing force for the Smash community bonding together and forging their own culture, so in some ways it's a huge positive. On the other hand, a game like this can't survive forever with no institutional support, so it might end up being the thing that kills it."
One last consideration for what keeps Smash at bay falls onto the Smash players themselves; Smash professionals are often a community in perpetual rift between those who specialize within a particular game in the series over others, and their interactions have been chronically poor throughout their history. The systemic actions of Nintendo's iron-clad monetization tactics are out of their hands, but any denouncing attitudes they take to their own kind only lends to the disorganization that has plagued the overall community's legitimacy. There have also, like in other competitive scenes, been thoroughly disappointing instances and accusations of sexism.
Final Destination
Professional Smash players often carry small paper lists with them as they travel tournament to tournament. Listed are the names of people who have asked for "money matches" through internet forums or social media ahead of time. Most money matches typically range between $1-10 for the victor. If the amount reaches $20, expect a crowd.
For most Smash players, despite hours of practice that stretch into weeks, months, and often years of dedication, these small tactics help cover the cost of simply attending tournaments. The vast majority of them don't play to make a living, even if they dreamed of doing so. Their passion for the game is evident by the hours lost in conversation, intense focus, and squelched laughter.
They know their game is special.
Almost all professional smashers interviewed for this article dodged the interview questions of how much they've made playing the game. But when provoked, those same players could not say enough about the fun they've had in the process of becoming fierce competitors in a relentless community. With few sponsorship opportunities, feint guidance and patchwork communication, they still manage time and time again to fight on with only barely self-sustaining monetary support as their tool.
It's a shame Nintendo doesn't find this fascinating minority equally worth fighting for.
Comments 136
Seriously? The same could be said about most career gamers regardless of the game so how is Super Smash Bros. "especially a poor choice"?! >_<
@Neko_Rukiafan Did you even read it or do you follow Smash at all? Because you obviously haven't done either. Smash Bros is one of the most underpaid competitive esports, with little funding coming from a bunch of places, but not really any major funding from anywhere. Its because the community is quite literally run by fans, even most of the major tournaments are. There is no 'rich' person helping sponsor, most sponsors are online stores like PlayAsia or other Smash teams. A tournament pot would be large for Smash if it hit $500. That'd draw a fairly large crowd. Since the tournaments are all smaller with no larger ones, the best players have to go to small ones, so they win everything, leaving no real room for mediocre players to win and profit, making it all a bad choice to go pro in unless you can win.
I think anyone who plays vidya games 'professionally' has made a poor life choice. Period.
@HollywoodHogan I dont see why, if you're good at it then its the dream. Doing the job you love.
Sure you're retired by 30 but then you've earned a fair amount and had a great time then you can get yourself into higher learning or a job with whats left of your winnings and you're kids will think you're a legend to boot.
Zero: " I pretty much win wherever I go"
Ya he wins by using exploits in the game Like using Diddy Kong. I wonder how his games been since the patch.
@HollywoodHogan So, everyone should have a 9 to 5 mundane desk job? pfff
@Nintendo6400 Diddy Kong is a game exploit?... Lol...
Interesting article, I didn't know some gamers could make so much from professional gaming. Quite enlightening.
I'd say another big factor that Nintendo doesn't financially support Smash tournaments is that Smash is not like a PC game, being on console (and without excessive DLC) means that Nintendo tends to only make a one time sale/money from the game. Sure, they gain some money from popularity/advertising from the tourney as it peaks other players' interest to buy the game. But for Melee (where the gamecube, controllers, and game) is no longer readily produced, any financial backing is Nintendo giving away free money (minus, again, some advertising promotion).
On a game like League of Legends, you will have some people pay large amounts of money to unlock characters or new skins, oftentimes (for the ones who do pay) more than the cost of a single Smash bros game. With that and future DLC, there is always money to be made, so the producers can and have more reason to financially support/promote PC game tournies.
I prefer that Smash is basically unlocked from the start (though, it's also nice that they have been expanding the game via new characters [minus the DLC cost is not something I'm used to, feels high per character], custom stage/character transfer, etc).
Per sports players salaries in general (esport or otherwise), I tend to think they get overpaid. I can't figure out why someone would ever need, say, over $100k a year, when you should easily be able to make do with less. Sure, that excess money (from entertainment streaming, tickets) should not necessarily just go to the Sports League/Association instead, but in the ideal world it'd be nice to see that money go/be_donated to world problems instead (i.e. limited income for a single person, and excess should go to supporting the community, rather than a single person / few people). It's not that entertainment is bad (in moderation), but really, I think we tend to exalt / overemphasize the importance of it, when bigger issues are present and could be improved/changed were the wealth collected from these things distributed differently.
@TheGreatBrawler
Wrong choice of words. He likes using over powers characters like diddy.
@Nintendo6400 - You do realize that Diddy has gotten severely nerfed in the most recent update, right?
@EmmatheBest
I know he did. Read my first post at the top.
One of the main problems with the Smash competitive scene getting bigger is the community not moving on. You don't see counter strike or lol players playing old versions of their games. Most of the community moves to the newest game. That doesn't happen with the Smash community.
@Nintendo_Ninja Hmm... probably because Melee and Smash 4 are so radically different than each other to the point you can't really even compare them? And who cares. Let them play what they want to play. Melee is still being played for a reason.
Still beats working for 20 hours at t' mill for tuppence a week
Here's an idea, just play for fun lololol
@Nintendo6400 Dude, he's still the best worldwide Sm4sh player regardless...
@Pandaman I think the title is really throwing people off, I don't think you are indeed meaning to insult Smash players' career choice? But you are trying to urge Nintendo to make it a better career choice, yes?
@Nintendo6400 You're acting like Zero is a scrub have you seen him play? Even without Diddy that man is amazing in Smash Bro's.
@Neko_Rukiafan Someone didn't read the article.
Also, I'm a COMPETITIVE smash player myself, while also a Youtuber. I'm hoping to be able to fully combine the two in the near future so that I can earn more money and recognition from both. While I will be a PROFESSIONAL Computer and Electronic Systems engineer once I graduate from uni.
@Nintendo6400 Zero is by far the best Sm4sh player at the moment period, he could win with most of the top tier characters against any player if he wanted to.
Nintendo does not release detailed game patch notes, rarely answers to fans pleas for nuanced gameplay changes, and opposes fan-made mods.
Then why was Smash 4 designed to be more like Melee in mind while fixing many of Brawls problems and if they really opposed fan made mods they would have had Project M shut down long ago
. In regards to Youtube the most likely reason Smash is not on the list likely has to do with all the licensing headaches involving the third party characters and music
amazing article, kudos to @Pandaman
I can't say I follow the competitive scene too closely but Zer0 comes off to me as being a self-centered jerk. Just about every quote I've read from him gives off that vibe.
@TheRedCap30 It's entertainment, footballers get FAR FAR FAR!!! more money from just playing a game, pop stars just sing a song, presenters just ask questions etc etc if people want to watch you, you get paid. Entertainment is a VERY large pie, and Youtubers get the smallest slice...
@CapeSmash Because Melee is a VASTLY different game than Smash 4. Reason it is still played is that Melee is pretty much the best Smash game for competitive play, regardless of your opinion on it. The fans recognize Melee as being a superior competitive game and stick to it. Just because Smash 4 is a newer game does not mean people are forced to switch to the newer title. That is simply not how it works. You want Smash 4 to be big, smash 4 fans have to work for it to be big, the same way Melee fans did for Melee. Melee fans, if they think Smash 4 is defensive, has little to no approach options and Advanced Techniques, they are not forced to follow this game when Melee satisfies these perfectly.
@TheRedCap30 Welcome to the real world, where soccer player also make millions by kicking a ball across a field. Also, you're a fool if you think every let's player is millionaire. Accept that it's a new job and MOVE. ON.
Really great article, this is why I always come back to Nintendolife.
Did people even read the article? Because I'm seeing some disappointing comments...
I think I'd rather be paid minimum wage to play games than Work at McDonald's
40K USD is a lot, damn, even 15K is a lot
I agree with Reggie in that I do not find it fun to watch streaming gameplay, but I won't argue with those who do regularly watch it. At most I watch gameplay videos as a second-best option to get a feel for how a video game will look and play and see if its worth a buy, especially since demos are hard to come by and there's no refunds for a digital purchase. (If Google Play offers a 2 hour window for refunds for paid apps, I wish we could get the same option from Nintendo, Mircosoft, and Sony.)
I do agree with the article in that Nintendo sees competitions as a marketing ploy above all else. That's certainly what the 2015 World Championship feels like, and curse them for making me feel okay with that because even though I was 5 years old in 1990, reading about it in Nintendo Power blew my young mind and made it feel like the most epic thing imaginable. Thanks to nostalgia, I'm feeling the same hype for the 2015 World Championships, though you're lucky to get a "meh" from me when I hear about other, more proper video game tournaments.
@TwilightAngel
I'm sure zero is good, I just don't like how he asked for Diddy to get banned and then Mained Him. Inever seen zero use anyone but Diddy outside of tournements.
Good point. Zero is the best Smash 4 player in the world for those that don't know. Smash 4 is doing very well for itself, and Melee is still growing even 15+ years later. Some of these comments though... -_-
@Nintendo6400 You've never seen him use anyone but Diddy outside of tournaments? Check out his YouTube or Twitch channel. He uses everyone.
@Nintendo6400 ZeRo can beat anyone with just about any character. He has only ever dropped one set. He also doesn't just play Diddy. He is probably the best Captain Falcon and Shulk player. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqlocvevRsw
And for fun here's his Little Mac beating FG noobs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP22z56k7MY
Also, not to nitpick about the article, but his name is ZeRo not Zer0.
I'm fine with people playing games for money, no problem here. I just couldn't do it, I like gaming and it is my passtime, not my job. I made another passion of mine a career, I'm not one to assume that all passions should be made into profit.
I like sex, doesn't mean I want to become a pornstar.
40k isn't a whole lot for being the best Smash player in the world. Most of us make more than that at our normal jobs, and we're not nearly the best in the world at what we do.
Of course, just because other sports contenders make exorbitant sums doesn't mean I agree with it. I think there is such a thing as getting paid too much for sports, and likewise, not getting paid enough. I agree he should be getting paid more considering his status.
The problem with professional players is twofold. On one hand, console games rarely ever reach a strong enough following to become a profitable eSports category, and on the other hand, Nintendo themselves are against it.
But I don't really care. As long as they have fun, money really shouldn't be a factor. That said, I don't like it when competitive games get corrupted by money prizes - it makes the competition go fierce for all the wrong reasons.
Being in an e-sports career is a tough call, although I can understand these people, they should have had backup plans in their lives to their career choices. Putting everything at stake with not fall back is absolutely an atrocious life choice and only filled with undeserved romanticism.
Going after what you love is good, but being smart about it is better.
Lol these comments tho
Keep up the comments everyone!
I know it's linked in the article, but I wanted to highlight one of my favorite pieces of media this year: For those of you who want to go deeper into the eSport debate, I highly suggest watching Frank Lantz's excellent talk on eSports that just went live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAzVHj-7kcI
I honestly didn't think people actually did Smash for a living. The article is a good eye-opener for that reason alone.
@JaxonH He is not the best Smash player in the world, best at Smash 4 and probably Brawl (but that's debatable) I'd say m2k is the best overall smasher looking at results.
@Nintendo6400 He still wins every tournament he goes to. He still mains Diddy Kong. He still dominates with everyone. He is STILL the best Smash 4 player in the world.
@Jazzer94
Eh, whatever. Best, second-best, third-best... It makes no difference. Point is the guy is clearly one of the best.
@AyeHaley
Not everyone, but most of us. I am an artist and know that there will be frequent financial dry spells. It's just the way of things. Playing video games or being an artist provide no necessities, neither product wise nor in services. That will always be a hindrance to steady income.
What needs to be judged is what the person themselves gets out of the endeavor. Once there is a family and the responsibilities that accompany it, self-fulfillment often has to go out the window for a time. Again, it's just the way of things.
I still find it stupid that they call these "esports" when they aren't a sport. ZeRo is a 125lb beanpole, he is hardly what one would call an "athlete"
Competition, sure. But the whole term "esport" is just stupid and wrong.
It's not only due to Nintendo's lack of acknowledgement and support until very recently that Smash is at the bottom on the list, but also the fact that competitive Smash players constantly argue over everything (mostly when it comes to playing any other Smash game beyond Melee) like children so ultimately nobody from the outside takes them seriously.
@SupremeAllah mentally seen, esports is as challenging (or even more) as normal sports. Physically seen are you probably right because there is no physical movement in this sport.
Golf or something like this doesn't seem like one either though.
@WingedSnagret Has absolutely nothing to do with that. Melee fans stick to Melee. It's the game they like, so people like you should just accept this fact and move on. Had Brawl and Smash 4 used the things that made Melee great competitively, Melee would most likely be dead. But Sakurai pretty much made the new games out of spite against the competitive scene, and naturally, the competitive Melee scene responded back by not supporting these games. Smash 4 fans have to work to make competitive Smash 4 successful. No one is or should be forced to play Smash 4 just because it's new if Melee had all the components they search for in a Smash game. It is only reasonable that they stick with Melee. Not to mention Melee grows bigger and bigger every year. Debates like this happen ALL the time in competive games. like CS 1.6 and CS GO.
@Nintendo6400 I mean, he won MVG Sandstorm using Diddy, and that tournament took place the weekend after diddy got nerfed, so.........
@Retro_on_theGo Okay...? Not exactly helpful feedback, there.
40k is a pretty good salary in the U.S. (depending in which state you live, of course...)
1. If Melee brings in little money, then Smash4 brings in no money. Melee is a better competitive game and will always have more attendants than Smash4. Zero is a Smash4 pro, not a Melee pro. That's why he doesn't earn too much. On the other hand, Melee players like Mango and Armada earn a lot more. Mango earns enough just off his stream haha.
2. Nintendo will never fully support Melee as it would not benefit the company in any way. They want to promote Smash4. Until Nintendo makes Melee HD, the Melee competitive scene will never see any big institutional support.
3. Don't count out smash just yet Nintendolife. In recent years, the scene (Melee) has really taken off. Almost all top players are now sponsored by large esport teams including Cloud9, Liquid, and TSM to name a few. Every big tournament crashes the previous entry record and tallies in tons of stream viewership with Apex 2015 at a 110,000 high. Melee has been kicking for 14 years and its only getting bigger. If that's not enough of an indactor, I don't know what is.
@TeeJay zero is literally the sweetest person ever
@Nintendo6400 Your ignorance has caused Zero to respond to your comment on Twitter. You should feel honored.
https://twitter.com/ZeRoSSB/status/599833541325651969
@SphericalCrusher
He did? Aw jeez I didn't mean to be hurtful I just tried to have an opinion on the matter. I'd like to apologize for my inappropriate comments. Sorry NL, sorry Zero... I guess I let the competitive side of smash get to me.
In retrospect, I guess I was pretty ignorant on the matter. My bad. :T
Hear, hear! It's a great shame that Nintendo can't see the forest for the trees. Constantly chasing an elusive & fickle blue ocean rather than catering to the vocal fans who would more than willingly keep throwing money at them for years to come if Nintendo would just play nice. Oh well.
I'm new to this site but I just wanted to comment on the quality of this article. It's really really good! I wish more game journalism was this pro-active! I had no idea e-sports was burgeoning to this degree or how much Smash players struggle. Thanks for making such a great article Mr Lopez
Smash was never intended for professional competition. It was made for friends playing together in the living room having fun.
@Nintendo6400 As a competitive Smash player myself, I will say that I'm against anyone telling anyone else how to play the game. This article brings several things to light - for instance, a few of the guys I play with are jobless and are making their sole income from tournaments... which is good for them right now, but it's not very much. I love Smash as a whole; as a fun game to play with friends with items, the game modes, and the competitive side of it. I've been trying to help Smash 4 grow as much as possible with streaming, hosting tournaments, working with my team Smash Studios, and more... but at the end of the day - consistency is key. Melee has been around for a long time and is still growing... I don't think Smash 4 will ever surpass that but I think it will run along beside it for a very long time. Heck, EVO registrations are dead even, both breaking 1K for Smash 4 and Melee. Smash love!!!
As much as I enjoyed Melee and all the games in the series, I think it would do that group good to move on with the series. My opinion anyway. That, and get away from Project M. I don't see that ever happening though. They aren't going to make Smash feel like Melee again, and while I'm fine with that, the super competitive crowd doesn't seem to be.
@SphericalCrusher If you don't mind me asking, what's your smasher handle?
To OneBag Travel.... Not everyone can afford to play for fun like you!
Super Smash Brothers is a great game. I would love to play it all day. http://5starblog.com/super-mario-nintendo-jeff-ryan-scribd/
@TheLilK98 SphericalCrusher or just Crusher. I'm not a Pro. Just a dedicated player.
@the1janitor You're probably right, I think I was thinking of m2k. Like I said, I don't follow the competitive community very closely...
@SethNintendo Agreed. Interactive media is individually reliant not mass reliant like movies.
Video Games are meant to be played not watched. I don't watch Let's Play videos by this principle alone because not only does it spoil the game for anyone, it also dumbs down a demographic. It's nice to have user based content, but Let's Play are something I would ignore on my list to watch on YouTube or other streaming sites like Twitch. I watched an SC tournament and it bored me to death, the same goes for the MOBA tournaments like DOTA 2 and LOL and even fighting games like MvC3 etc.
But that's not a knock on e-sports players though as I just find watching someone play video games, even if something big like Starcraft II or something quick like DOTA 2 are difficult for me to pay attention to.
These comments are literally beyond terrible...
@Nintendo6400 At least you're big enough to admit that. That takes a lot!
@New_Age_Retro_Hippie
Sorry, had to reply because StarCraft is one of my things and the post here is pretty ignorant. Brood Wars is still played for some tournaments, but PROFESSIONAL leagues have entirely switched to StarCraft II. There is no Brood Wars pro scene anymore in Korea, so yes, it did overtake it. They stuck with Brood Wars for a while, but that was almost entirely because of broadcasting and publishing rights.
@MikeW .....I make $40k a year and I work at a restaurant.... I would hope that some of the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD would make quite a bit more than that......
For those thinking "games are meant to be played, not watched", maybe late in the early 1900's people thought "well, sports are meant to be played, not watched", and the rest is history.
As much as I love Sakurai as a developer, I think he made an unfortunate mistake in Brawl. I'm not saying he really wanted to upset the community. He probably didn't even know it was that big of a deal, but things are getting interesting because of the internet. The Melee commmunity is insanely huge and it increases every year, its people are so dedicated.
I understand Sakurai's reasoning for the casual players, they (he and NIntendo) always had the same intention. The game being on a console, for example, those are meaningful thoughts. What doesn't proceed is their explanations. Like, "people on the internet are mean". So what? They will be mean anyway, even online matches in Smash 4 have this: people write their names as "you suck" or "lag bro" if they want to make you feel bad.
If Brawl and Smash 4 had the exact same proposition as Melee, with mechanics slightly changed for better, the games would be selling more, the community would be greater, would have more support and Nintendo could officially afford it. The Melee community wouldn't have anything to go to criticize the other games, and you know why? Because they would be playing the new iterations. Yeah, maybe this kind of happens with every franchise, but I don't believe most have so many differences in gameplay competitively as Smash.
Just to make it clear: I don't think Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo should get any blame. Things happened, and that's it. It's just that we could have had more if some points worked differently. And then now we have all the Project M thing. Haha!
The thing about the Reggie comment is it really belies his misunderstanding of what's happening on Youtube. Yes, I agree that simply watching gameplay without anything added is generally not interesting to me, and that was his statement. But few if any of the popular channels involve just gameplay with nothing added. And the article is right to point out the turnaround on this issue, and some of the tension, created by the new Youtube partner program. With all that said, I think the post a ways up is on to something about Smash players just being uniquely stubborn, or nostalgic, or lazy, in their refusal to move on. I do think Nintendo would be more accommodating to Smash tourneys if it felt there was the possibility to bring them (N) revenue. And they (N) did put their money where there mouth is with the promotion around Smash 4.
NintendoLife, this is the kind of article that makes me enjoy this site so much. If you had asked if I even cared to read an article about professional gamers, I would have said no. But this article tackles the issue in such a comprehensive way I couldn't stop reading. Nice job!
@SethNintendo Basically, your logic is like "I find this boring so it should not exist" Get over it, we live in a different era and you must adapt to it. You may not find it entertaining but other people like me DO find it interesting. Your opinion regarding this has little value. If it bothers you, act like it doesn't freaking exist instead of stepping on the toes of those who do find enjoyment out of it.
@SethNintendo most let's players I watch usually have a good commentary going on. I don't actually know of any succesful let's players that don't talk at all.
@HollywoodHogan @TheRedCap30 How is that any different than sports in general? I don't see how Football (both kinds) is any more productive? Or chess? I don't see any one dispute people making money through those.
@Nintendo6400 Check his aftershock plays. He's used Shulk quite a few times.
I've never really been too much into sports or esports from a big-bucks perspective. I like playing, I like watching, I don't really like rich people getting involved...because then we get stuff like the 1921 World Series, Tom Brady and his balls, and Daigo the Beast. Money corrupts the basic fun of things and leaves people dead after a 49ers game. I'm more of a play competively, but have a day job kind of person. Games are for fun (sports and e-sports)...when games become work we expect top-dollar for...then you've totally lost me O_O
If the demand is there the money is there. League of Legends has one of the highest unique player counts out of any game out there. 75mil+. It makes sense that so many people would watch the pros. Not to mention those spectators make up a mere fraction of the total user-base and still rake in cash. Smash 4 has like what, 8 million lifetime sales? And Melee like 7? The reason these people aren't being paid much is because the market is niche.
Really nice article. Kudos guys!
I wish Nintendo made a Melee mode for SSB4 since they don't like my favourite Smash Bros game, Project-M. As 1on1 game, I much prefer the faster games (Melee, Project-M) with longer hitstun to make combos possible.
@Chaoz Yeah, no kidding...
@SphericalCrusher I see, keep at it!
If it doesn't actively make Nintendo money, or actively leave Nintendo in total control, then Nintendo doesn't want to do it. It's that simple.
And when Nintendo chooses to do things for total control and money--like their awful YouTube policies--they tend to damage both and turn people away from them.
@TheRedCap30 @HollywoodHogan I can't believe there are people who would (try to) counter argue these points. Someone who plays video games and does nothing else should not be earning any money at all, and certainly not more than someone who busts their @$$ off trying to provide or survive through actual work.
@Nintendo6400 He's still winning tournaments. Still undefeated lol
It's not gonna have institutional support if people insist on continuing to play Melee competitively. Nintendo even made gamecube controller adapters to pander to these holdouts, and they still say Melee is the best of the series. Move on guys, as long as Nintendo continues to make nothing on Melee, they won't support Smash Bros tournaments.
Why was this article bumped?
@TheRedCap30 I'm pretty sure Shiek is his main though.(and always has been. Diddy is just another character he uses I think)
@rsanchez1 Melee isn't considered the best because of the GCN controller, to think so is pure ignorance.
boo hoo. get a job.
I thought I had seen this article already... and I wasn't wrong.
This whole website is deja vu. I think they're deleting articles and reposting them to make us seem crazy when we're like AGAIN?! And everyone has to do that snotty "they didn't post this yet" fight even though someone else reported on everything this site does 20 weeks ago
There's at least one fool on Earth who's read this article or the deja vu article thinking "this is the best choice for my life" or "I'm gonna do that you can't tell me I'll fail"
I always thought this "playing competitively" was a poor life choice. But that opinion is commonly frowned and spat upon on here.
@Prof_Clayton
Does this mean that Nintendo should step in and sponsor the tourney scene like capcom did? would that help?
@TheRedCap30 And this reason is somehow suppose to justify Nintendo's actions?
@errantrazor They got one
@RetroRider Of course your opinion should be spat upon. Winning Dota 2 major pretty much sets you for life by playing a game you love. How's that a poor life choice? And most importantly, who are you to say it is?
@EngieBengie No. They have a hobby they want to be paid for.
I have hobbies that I want to be paid for too. I want to play videogames, make iTunes playlists, listen to Howard Stern, and read comic books
Let's leave this argument here before things get ugly -Lz
@errantrazor go make patreon or kickstarter - you won't be the first or the last to do that for this purpose excatly. There are many stupid people out there who will gladly give another one some money for doing what YOU love.
Anyway, say what you want about Melee, how good or bad it is, but you really must be an idiot to expect making money off a game that is on console that pretty much bombed and the game sold like crazy only because there was nothing for the cube when it released - after all, it was only month away from launch of the console. Captain Hindsight played cruel joke on them by not making his presence known to them.
Starcraft didn't last for 14 years and lol/dota 2 are big because these are accesible and everyone can play them.
Never got to invested in to smash. Its a fun party game.
Seeing a stadium full of people watching a RTS/MOBA tournament might be one of the saddest sites I have ever laid eyes on.
Though the Smash scene is equally sad. It probably has the potential to be huge, but Smash fans are cancerous little shits that can't move on from a decade old obsolete game on the Gamecube.
just playing alone,never playing becoming championship like this.... "playing own rules" and yeah sad news though
Since it's Christmas and coming off negative would be un-Christmas, I'm going to politely disagree with the article, say kindly that complaining about not making enough money in your career choice is nobody's fault but your own, and move on. Happy Holidays.
@errantrazor "want" Do you realize Let's Plays were a thing before youtube monetization? Of course not.
@Torterror *Figthing game.
@MrRight There's nothing sad here, well, besides you. Judging people for what they like to watch or play, you're almost like a granny with this sort of attitude. But yeah, people pay to watch a Dota 2 tournament. What gives? They enjoy it, they pay for it and that's what they want to do which brings me to the question: Who are you to judge?
Also, Melee fans aren't forced to move on to an inferior game if they don't want to. To me, Melee is a vastly superior game than Brawl and Smash 4 combined due to its great mechanics and this opinion is shared by most who keep playing Melee for all these years. Melee doesn't grow much more due to its age and its scarcity not due to its "cancerous littles shits" like you say. The only person I see fitting that nice little name you gave is you because you can't handle or even fathom that people don't like the newer Smash games. Hell, Smash 4 may be the most disappointing and unfun game I played in a while. What are you going to do about that?
Why are old articles being brought up to the front?
@Gridatttack Only because people KEEP asking me this...even though its the first thing written on the page...
~From now until the start of the new year we're going to be republishing some of what we feel are our best features of 2015. Hopefully this will offer the chance for newer readers to catch up on content they might have missed and allow long-time fans to reacquaint themselves with features they enjoyed the first time around.~
@Gridatttack
Can you read? Like at all.
@Pandaman I see, thanks for pointing that out. Didn't noticed as I usually don't bother reading stuff I read before, so I wasn't expecting that notice there.
@JRPGHurtsWallet oh look, a random new user trying to look smart.
That would require us to live in a world where Nintendo isn't so annoyingly anal about their properties and trying to protect them from the very thing keeping them alive. Dear Lord, Nintendo, just learn already.
@Pandaman No the first thing written is NintendoLife...or nintendolife rather, but I assume you mean the first thing in the article, which is. "A game like this can't survive forever with no institutional support."
@Utena-mobile: $7.25 an hour 40 hours per week 52 weeks a year...$15,080...so do you make less than minimum wage or do you not work full time? Actually that's none of my business but I'm confused if you have a job and don't make at least $15,000 a year.
The vast, vast, vast majority of Smash players do not care about the competitive scene. Nintendo has no obligation to pay people that are good at their games. Why would a good Smash player have any precedent over a Mario Kart, Codename S.T.E.A.M, or Pikmin competitor? Because it's Smash?
@DekuOnion Because it's Smash.
@EngieBengie Are you done with your tantrum?
The only competitive 'sport' worth mocking is competitive eating. If it's competitive (anything) that we have to do anyway just to survive, it ain't a sport.
@MrRight Tantrum? Is disproving people and making arguments considered tantrum nowadays? This coming from the person who can't for the life of them accept that Melee fans have an opinion.
@sleepinglion
If it's super spicy, I'll watch it.
@DekuOnion Because Smash is a fighting game which is competitive, add to that a big skill ceiling and that's why it is as big as it is. Mario Kart has no competitive viability due to randomness being so deeply rooted to the game's core and randomness has absolutely no place in a competitive environment. Pikmin is largely a single-player experience, not a multiplayer one. Codename STEAM, same reason or maybe the game just isn't as good.
@EngieBengie Go ahead, get it all out of your system.
@MrRight
>Verbally defames Melee fans for having their opinion
>Acts like I'm the mad one
@Nintendo6400
Probably not as good as they were
As moronic it is that anyone (Smash or not) actually gets paid to play outside of game testers, let alone millions of dollars, it is even more moronic that people pay to watch.
I don't care if it's YouTube, some Warcraft garbage or Evo, 'pro' gaming is terrible. If I offended you, great. It proves you're passionate about something.
But this isn't remotely the worst thing. Anyone paid to play sports is overpaid.
But a real pro athlete sacrifices their social life, their family, their relationship, their anonymity, their privacy and their social status for those contracts.
And because they're unionized, you can't actually just ask for less money. That's not how unions operate. It kind of defeats the purpose. In fact, many of these companies make billions. The profit sharing (a regular in many industries) alone is enough to warrant millions.
ESports literally does nothing for anyone. And anyone who finds them remotely interesting is socially and psychologically redundant.
I don't care what the excuse is: getting paid 40k a year to game for a living is still too much. A million dollars for one tournament? These numbers aren't just excessive, they're irresponsible. When has gaming done anything positive or made any positive change?
If anything, video games are the most elitist, bigoted, racist, sexist, closed minded, narrow and shallow form of entertainment. Not only do they not deserve self-grandizing awards shows, but they also don't deserve mainstream media and attention. Then again, when trash like the Kardashians, the British royalty and cute kittens dominate the airwaves, is anyone really surprised video games are gathering headlines and press?
In an era where real news is glossed over for candy and tripe, it should be no real shock that the most useless of all media is strutting around like it's technological pandering is or ever has been relevant.
@SahashraLA So, what you're saying is... you're not a fan?
It's not a secret that the most successful competitive games have the support of the game publishers behind them, and Nintendo, with their concern for their family friendly image, piracy (they consider streaming and uploading videos piracy more so than other game companies), having an iron fisted control of all their IPs, and being very frugal (not supporting the competitive scene with money), have not really supported the Smash scene as much as many other fighting game publishers have, and in the past, have actively tried to stamp it out.
Playing videogames and getting paid sounds like any lil kids dream come true. Hey if your good enough to make some dough, more power to ya! I'm sure alot of them only do it on the side anyway.
$40,000? To play video games?
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Yeah, you have a tough life. It's frustrating hearing people whine about not getting paid enough to play games. I support esports, but like with regular sports I think it's dumb to overpay people.
I love Smash, but wouldn't waste my time watching a tier-whoring-a-thon people would call a tournament. "But people choose lots of characterzzz!!!1" More than half of the Top 16 for Evo 2015 Melee fighters were Fox...lots of characters...yep.
@EngieBengie Hahahaha, whatever you say. Have a nice trip back to /v/, lad.
This article really should win some sort of award for journalism. The quality of writing and depth is far above anything I've ever read in any other video game website or magazine. It confirmed just how useless ign has become and they were never very good in the first place. I had already stopped visiting them in favor joystiq until it was mercilessly killed and am happy with the exclusive focus on games here. Please dont ever start watering the site down with movie and entertainment news. I will leave.
@MrRight What's /v/ to begin with? You haven't come up with a rebuttal to what I said and you're shitting on people for having an opinion, I come in defending these people and I'm supposedly the angry one. Between you and me, we know who's seething with rage and you know it's not me, I'm not the one calling people names for having an opinion.
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