Over the years we've had some quirky exchanges with Nintendo's PR department, but one of the best related to a light-hearted article about Yoshi. It turned out that an official Nintendo Character Guide from 1993 had said that Yoshi is "properly known as T. Yoshisaur Munchakoopas" and is a 'young dinosaur', which seemed about as definitive as anything would get around that silly but fun topic; as for what the T stands for, it's the 'greatest mystery of our times' according to votes in our poll from the time.
In any case, we're not sure whether we asked as a joke or Nintendo's team randomly decided to address the article, but we got an email on the matter. Without giving any evidence to counter what was an official Nintendo guide from the early '90s, we were simply told that Yoshi is not a dinosaur, "it's a Yoshi". In other words, the upright and strange-looking creature with a shell on its back couldn't be categorised as a dinosaur.
Fair enough.
Categorising things and putting them in a neat box is human nature, and we've seen a lot of it with the Nintendo Switch over the past 10 days. From broadsheet newspapers to blog posts and tweets, we've seen people debating whether the Switch is a portable of a home console, and where it fits in the broader gaming market. 'Both' or 'whatever you want it to be' don't seem to be satisfying answers for everyone.
Nintendo is partly responsible for this, as its promotional messaging has described it as a home gaming system, and it continues to push the perspective that Switch is primarily a console with the bonus of 'switching' to portable play when necessary. There are multiple reasons the company's doing this, with not all being the result of some kind of conceptual dogma.
With the Wii U pretty much finished, by Nintendo's own admission, it's trying to position the Switch as the replacement. That makes some sense, as well, with the dual release of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, the updated Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 as a sequel to one of the Wii U's biggest and most surprising hits. All of that plays into the perspective that Nintendo wants Wii U owners to upgrade to Switch, and that it is a console with the home in mind.
Of course, on top of this Nintendo is still keen to promote the 3DS and keep it in rude health, pulling out surprise recent announcements such as Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia and news that Fire Emblem Warriors will also come to the New 3DS. That, on top of announcements in the second half of last year and potentially more to come, shows that Nintendo is keen to keep the portable in active service. If there isn't a New 3DS price cut at some point to accompany a major title such as Pikmin on the system, we'd be surprised. Ultimately, Nintendo clearly doesn't want to be 'seen' to be replacing a system it insists is still a major player for 2017; it may well succeed, too, we'll see how sales of upcoming 3DS releases stack up.
When it comes to the home console or portable element with Switch, the arguments for either side largely boil down to simple points of view. Some look at the game library and Nintendo's messaging and say that, despite the 'console' essentially being a tablet, it's clearly a new spin on home console gaming. Others take that point about the console's form factor and, not unreasonably, say that it's really a spruced up and powerful portable that happens to have a dock to output to TV. Some ask why, rather than try to pitch a home console that's underpowered compared to some current and upcoming rival systems, Nintendo doesn't advertise the world's most capable handheld?
Those perspectives are valid, and Nintendo's self-sabotage in its messaging isn't helping matters. Quite why it feels the need to separate Switch and 3DS in the home / portable stakes is a tad baffling - the whole world knows the 3DS has been around for a while, and it's still performing reasonably. If a new system 'replaces' it even partially, what's the problem? Some people were still buying leftover and cheap DS units when the 3DS was already out, and the universe didn't detect a paradox and implode on itself.
Frankly, the Switch is a Switch. Like Yoshi, it has similarities to existing ideas and things, but it's also its own weird individual self - it's typical of the isolated bubble in which Nintendo exists, competing for an audience in a space on its own. The big N isn't going head to head with Sony and Microsoft in a conventional sense (and hasn't since it brought out the Wii), nor is it fighting smartphones and tablets directly; that's what's so scary and also exciting every time the company releases hardware, and why success is hard to predict.
When Nintendo merged its development divisions a few years ago, knocking down the self-imposed wall between portables and home consoles, it was clear that the distinction was no longer quite the right fit. The company may have recently pitched the Switch as the evolution of its home console strategy over 30-35 years, but the portable blueprints are also there. Back to the single screen of Game Boy and the Game Boy Advance, but with the touch screen and motion controls found in DS and 3DS. All blended with those home console ideas, making the Switch tough to categorise.
That's fine, though. In fact, it's going to be fascinating to see how it evolves. A number of the confirmed releases are certainly home console-style experiences, but as the 3DS gradually fades out will we see more portable-friendly titles? There'll be a Fire Emblem game in 2018, so we'll see whether it follows the Awakening / Fates template. Animal Crossing will surely come, too, a franchise that may have originated on home consoles but felt very much at home on the 3DS with Animal Crossing: New Leaf. We've seen the boundaries between portable and home console gaming styles blur, already, so that will surely only continue.
Of course, rumours and talk will persist that Nintendo will release another dedicated handheld to replace 3DS, but even if accurate will it be a conventional machine, or something more catered to a budget crowd? Nintendo's struggled so much to keep both Wii U and 3DS active with first-party games, would it willingly reintroduce that strain on its resources? Frankly, if a portable-only iteration of Switch (with the necessary brand tweak) was released in a couple of years that costs less (minus the dock, HDMI cable etc) but has a better battery, would that not do the job? The launch Switch, after all, has a battery seemingly as limited in life - when playing a demanding game like Breath of the Wild - as the original 3DS.
Maybe the Switch, quite simply, is both a handheld and a home console, as its hybrid format makes clear. Maybe it's neither in a 'traditional' sense. It's a Switch; comparisons should focus on whether it's fun to play and worth owning. Aside from that, comparing it to other devices that have different approaches and priorities is rather like comparing apples to oranges, or Yoshi to a Velociraptor.
Comments 229
The more I think about it the more I think it will go with me outdoors. I'm thinking 75% console and 25% handheld.
Nintendo has called it a home console. Therefore, I see it as a home console.
I am very happy with the Switch setup. In the future, every console should have the ability to be plugged in to your TV/monitor, and/or taken on the go.
It technically is a handheld that gets hooked up to your TV IMO. The dock is basically just an HDMI cable with a few other things thrown in. However, it can function as both a handheld and a console, depending on how a person prefers to play.
I'll use it mostly as a home, but there will surely be moments for the Switch to be undocked, maybe at bed before i go to sleep or when the TV will be occupied. By the way this console concept really excites me!!
http://i.imgur.com/c7NJRa2.gif
I love the Switch idea, but I do think they should have offered a version without the dock, for $50 less ... because that's what some consumers want... listen to the consumers, offer them choice ... instead seems they worry more about how its perceived (not wanting to been seen to exit the home console market?)
more choice .. maybe more sales, with people picking up a dock later ...
I don't see it as a home console or a portable, I see it as the hybrid it is. As the article states, it's easy to categorise something & put them into the small, cramped boxes of familiarity... but that doesn't always make it right.
After all, what is a home console other than a handheld without a battery & screen? What if you added a battery & screen (which happened with both the Gamecube & PSOne towards the end of their life), are they a portable or a home console?
The definition of either a home console or a portable doesn't lie in the battery, screen or lack thereof. The definition lies in it's intended purpose & the Switch is intended to be both. Perhaps the real answer depends on who buys it??
I'll be using it as a portable mostly. I'm looking forward to taking it out with me to play at the cinema in the lobby between films
Handsole. Conheld.
(Someone had to do it...)
@elhozzo It would confuse more than it would appease I fear.
It's a good handheld but a poor console. I have no interest in portability. But we're getting barely a stepup from Wii U.
I feel like Nintendo knows it is a portable, and wants to market that, but doesn't want to get in the way of 3DS sales.
@erv
Conhand, Heldsole.
I think it might be better to market it as a handheld that can be played on your TV. As a console, it doesn't stack up against the other two.
However, portability with 2.5 hours battery life is not a selling point for me. Mine will mostly be docked.
The thing is of its av home console than why is it better than the wii u ? I don't see any benefit yet. Pretty sure that the wii u can run splatoon2 or mario odyssy..
I just discussed something similar to this with a friend of mine. To me, the Switch is a home console and the 3DS is rather viable as portable device as long as Nintendo, and third party companies, keep in releasing games which can be focused on the budget and younger demographics.
So far the Switch has been targetting, based on the trailers, the adolescent and adult deographics. The it is realistic to assume that the 3DS will become the younger children gaming device. Just like the 2DS is now for the 3DS.
Besides, if you really think it over, the Switch is not as portable as the 3DS. So it is more likely for someone to pull out a 3DS out of their pucket, in their daily commute, to play and pass the time; than a Switch out of their backpack/purse/suitcase/etc. during their commutes.
It's very much a "plug-n-play" home console, though I agree that it is a mistake on their part to not further emphasise its handheld qualities rather than trying to artificially keep the "second pillar" 3DS afloat.
I still think it would be wise for Nintendo to immediately or eventually allow the Switch to run popular mobile OSs or at least apps from them (or perhaps just Nintendo-published mobile games), which would allow it to also compete with and dominate the mobile gaming markets, being a fully "all-in-one" gaming tablet.
The internet is more or less convinced that the Switch is a home console that has an added bonus of being portable if you wish to use it that way. For my purposes, it is going to be 100% portable only. Life is hectic and I have an incredibly short attention span, so home consoles are useless to me. Console gaming is a time commitment and a pain, and I can't deal with boot and load times. My 3DS, I play a level or two in a game, I shut it for a few minutes while I do something else, then open it back up and immediately jump back in. That works for me and I will continue that style of play on the Switch. The more I think about it, the less apt I am to even hook the dock up to the TV at all, given that I don't foresee myself using it. I sincerely hope that a smaller, portable only version releases in the future.
You can play games anywhere. It's neither a home console or a handheld.
Doesn't matter to me personally, but I think it's kind of important to sales. I think if the mass market see it as a console... then it might struggle to surpass the Wii U numbers. If people see it as a handheld, then it's got a chance of getting some of those 3DS people that didn't bother with a Wii U. The size of the thing might count against it being seen as the latter...
"The big N isn't going head to head with Sony and Microsoft in a conventional sense (and hasn't since it brought out the Wii), nor is it fighting smartphones and tablets directly; that's what's so scary and also exciting every time the company releases hardware, and why success is hard to predict."
And this right here is exactly why I do not believe Switch will ever be a mainstream success (something Nintendo desperately needs it to be after the Wii U disaster). Switch is neither of the two above referenced markets, and therefore has dug itself out a niche 'in-between' market instead.
Home console purchasers will find better value in PS4 and XB1s current offerings (and I suspect largely don't care much about the Switch's portable aspect). Portable gamers will probably be more inclined to purchase, however if all it ever gets are Home console style games on the go, who honestly has time for that day in and day out in their everyday lives away from home? Again, I argue not many and certainly not enough to be a mainstream success.
for me 99% as home console , when visiting others as a handle, bring a ac for power to free up the tv, its a bit too big for black friday camp overs not to say the battery life needs 4x for zelda
hoping a replacing battery is easy and not too expansive, hopefully someone will make one then maybe then it might do better as a handle. Would do fine for 1 way commutes, bring a ac to charge it at lunch or breaks if it takes longer than 1 hour and 30 mins. we don't know how long it takes to boot up at this point.
This is a portable with console graphics. I will use it like my 3DS. That doesn't mean I won't play it at home.
Home for me
@TheBigK
I don't think it'll ever be smaller. But I'm sure they'll at least sell it without the dock eventually.
The media needs to say it's a console, because then they can make stories about it being in competition with the PS4 and XB, which creates a narrative. As a handheld it doesn't really have a true arch enemy (even the iPad).
There's a desperate need to praise the winners and mock the losers, and gauge what people think is cool, and if you can't figure what race it's is running in, how can you dismiss or kiss the bottom of the Switch?
It's a TV capable, super powerful handheld for me.
It's a handheld that can be attached to the TV. It is not, in any way shape or form, a home console. Was the Vita* a home console because you could hook it up to your TV?
EDIT: PSP I mean. I thought the Vita did have TV out but I was mistaken.
According to that guy with the name it's a "SANDSWITCH" that supports what the other guy with the other name calls "SCAMIIBO" because apparently, cringeworthy nicknames become less so if you use them all the time like you're trying to copyright them or something?
@SLIGEACH_EIRE totally agree. If Nintendo had pitched this as a powerful handheld, but with the beauty of hooking it up to a TV, I think a lot of negativity (including mine) would not be necessary.
Instead, they openly promote it as a home console and will suffer with lack of third party support, because it's an underpowered home console.
@TeslaChippie but Nintendo is promoting it as a home console.
Are you telling me Nintendo dont know how to market their own product
/edited for spelling.
Nah for me it's a handheld and always has been since Eurogamer article months ago.
Will spend 90% of my time playing it as a handheld
Preordered mine so I've got it to take in holiday In April. Perfect for the plane journey and relaxing in the hotel room.
Loved the off TV play on the Wii U so can't wait.
Its a damn gaming device. Next question.
Just like black, white, brown, blue. I prefer the term human.
@Phin68 I wonder if you will be saying that in a year when the 3ds is dead and they call it a portable.
@gatorboi352 where do you suppose all those 3ds owners are going to go?
@TheBigK and @elhozzo there is always a chance for hardware revisions, which could change screen-size, maybe without a dock but much better battery life, this is based on 3ds, 2ds, 3ds xl, new 3d new 3ds xl, wii, wii mini, gameboy advanced, gameboy advanced sp, as far as nintendo does things, and i'll just bs about 4k dock for 4k tvs at 60 fps for another hardware revision, would need much better cpu, ram, and graghics cards, heat sinks, fans etc.
Dear Nintendo Lifers - I will soon be setting up a FACEBOOK PAGE that matches SWITCH OWNERS who just want a handheld portable console with those SWITCH owners who have more tvs in More rooms at home and can buy the unused DOCK form the handheld player! SIMPLES!
@elhozzo they may yet release a cheaper version of switch without a dock and better battery
@faint where do you suppose all those 3ds owners are going to go?
It's a shiny thing you play games on.
On the tellie, sat in bed or on the loo are mere details. It's a games system.
What a long long boring Article.The Switch is whatever the buyer wants.Can be Used as a Home console /portable.It's that Simple. You over complicate it.
..
it's both and neither. It's a perfect contradiction. It's whatever you want it to be. And if it fails, Nintendo will release a proper home console and say that exists alongside Switch, or another portable to live alongside the home console. I also think they'll release a mid-gen update akin to PS4 Pro i.e., they'll release a more powerful dock that offers better graphics or whatever...
It's a handheld to the point the dock, pad and HDMI should all be separate so they can sell the thing @ £200.
The toaster should be an optional add on just like my Apple TV is an optional purchase to my iPhone that lets me play games on my TV.
The Switch is a killer handheld that offers local multiplayer for train journeys out of the box.
The most crucial aspect of this console is its game library. It needs to embrace casual gamers with third parties and a ton of first-party support utilizing all of Nintendo's known (and neglected) franchises to appeal to the hardcore Nintendo fans. With a decorated game library in tow, consumers will welcome the console's portable functionality fervently.
1-2 Switch also needs to be the Switch's Wii Sports equivalent. If not, Nintendo has to do something to try to capture that same success.
I love the Switch for what it is (so far) and I can see myself taking it everywhere with me, yet still enjoying the bigger experience at home. It'll be great to (hopefully) watch Netflix or Youtube on my lunch break with. I don't get people who want a dockless version. If they made it with no dock then that'd completely undermine the concept of the system. Then it couldn't be called the Switch. It would just be the Nintendo Ditch. Its supposed to be all-in-one.
@gatorboi352
"And this right here is exactly why I do not believe Switch will ever be a mainstream success... Switch is neither of the two above referenced markets, and therefore has dug itself out a niche 'in-between' market instead."
So, you choose to see the Switch as a potential failure because it's carving its own market. What prevents you from viewing the Switch as "a bridge" between both markets therefore baring the potential to attract customers who usually just remain in one of those markets?
It's a console that you can continue to play when the lights go out. What more do you need?
Since Jan 12th Nintendo has said portable console
@audiobrainiac they are atleast thinking about getting those apps, should be easy to do with ac wifi, battery life is another story for longer time away from home.
Debates like this have led me to one conclusion: The Switch has split personality disorder.
I personally don't care how it's defined. It's still a game console (my definition includes handhelds); as long as it plays games, I'm fine with it.
@geordie That is exactly what i'm saying xD
The Switch should really be replacing both the Wii U and 3DS. It's both a home console and a handheld. I'm sick of amazing 3DS games being low res and always wanted the ability to play them on a big screen, like how Pokemon Stadium let you.
@mdfezasmbroxeno I hope we get them, but I would think one could just login via the built-in web browser. I'll probably have a second charger with me, cause I like to be prepared like that.
@MrPuzzlez
1 better battery life 3hours for zelda is a joke.
2 1st and 2nd party games (insert a game)
3 3rd party games (insert a game)
4 money for system
5 a place to stay when the lights go out, when food spoils over, when robbers take stuff when camera is not on
6 more storage space 32 gb is not cutting it. so 128 sdxc which more money
7 less expansive controllers. save money
8 payed online serviced which could use your smart phone as a way to play online (more money)
Isn't it whatever it's creator says it is? A hybrid.
For me personally it is a home console. That's simply because it will probably never leave its place next to my TV.
I see no reason to take it with me anywhere. I am no fan of handhelds.
My small "man bag" is already full of tech that I already find a pain to carry around. Phones, tablet, ereader, etc. No way I intend to add to the load.
It is ultimately what you want it to be.
It's both. Isn't that the point? Nintendo are saying it's a home console so it doesn't look like they're leaving the the console market and I will mostly use it as a handheld but others usage will be different. So it's both.
Yep. Like I said, Switch is a hybrid console, and no other interpretation does it complete justice. It's not a tablet, home console or handheld separately and entirely - but while this may evoke the "jack of all trades, master of none" impression, such sentiments haven't stopped IT and media tech from making hybrids before (in fact, many of us are very accustomed users of such hybrids, born from the merger of pocket PCs and GSM phones and eventually replacing the former). It's also in Switch's pitched nature to offer things no tablet, home console or handheld can effectively offer by themselves either.
I think asking if the Switch is a handheld or home console is rather like asking if a mule is a Donkey or a Horse. It's neither; it's a mule. When you take aspects of two different things and put them together you get something entirely new. That's what the Switch is supposed to be, that's what the Switch is, that is how it should be seen in my opinion.
It's sort like a 2017 version of the SNES super Gameboy lol
Considering the handful of times I've actually used my 3DS as a portable (i.e., out and not plugged in), I don't really care either way. I bought a 3DS for games, not for portability and the Switch will be the same if I decide to get one. Cool that it functions as both, though.
I think the Switch is what you want it to be. That's the good part of it. You have so many configurations to use it, you just have to choose the one that is right for you at the moment. I haven't owned a home console since the wii. Playing mostly on 3DS since then. But I'm quite excited to get back to home gaming especially with a console that I can also take with me on the go.
I can see Nintendo releasing a less expensive portable only version of Switch later on. I don't see the point on releasing a different portable device to replace 3DS unless Switch happens to undersell (Which I doubt). Then again, a portable virtual console machine similar to the NES Mini, will be smart.
@gatorboi352
You are using the same arguments all the time, like: "Home console style games on the go, nobody wants that. ?!?" etc.
I think you are very wrong about those assumptions.
Most Nintendo games on the 3DS is actually very close to "Home console style games". Like there isn't much difference between "Super Mario 3D Land" and "Super Mario 3D World".
The 3DS even got strait up ports of "Donkey Kong Country Returns", "Xenoblade Chronicles", "Street Fighter IV", "Super Smash Bros", "Ocarina of time", "Star Fox 64", "Monster Hunter Tri" and "Super Mario Maker".
Games like "Resident Evil: Revelations" and "Castlevania: Lords of Shadow – Mirror of Fate" where actually ported the other way from 3DS to home consoles. That worked quite well too.
Then we have games like "Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon", "Fire Emblem Awakening", "Zelda: a link between worlds" and "Monster Hunter Generations" that could easily have been home consoles games as well. And there are many more games like that.
The gab between portable and home console games is almost gone. At least for Nintendo games.
So why should Nintendo continue to support two platforms, when the content is almost identical? Why use resources to make two versions of Mario Kart, Smash or Mario Maker, when they are almost the same?
I am not sure, if you are a portable gamer or not? And If you ever tried the 3DS or Vita? But those consoles have plenty of "Home console games".
I am mostly a portable gamer, and I am really looking forward to use the Switch on the go. Especially playing those big "Home console" like games I have become used to on 3DS and Vita.
@audiobrainiac i'm not sure if we even get a web browser, i like being prepared for things too, ps got a 128 gb sdxc for expansion slot already,
@Frosty_09 2.5 hours is kind of low, a better battery would do wonders for portable side, for when not at home to recharge.
Right now, it needs to outdo the Wii U, so it's a home console that's also portable. If it works, in a year or two they'll make one with the bottoms shaved off of the joycons and the tablet part scaled down to the size of a phone and that'll be a handheld console that also has an HDMI out port. If there's still a market for dedicated handheld consoles by then.
I think "Console that can be taken on the go" probably sounds more impressive than, "Handheld that can become a console."
It seems like there's a perception that handhelds are weaker, so by default they should be cheaper (despite non-graphics related tech). And, of course, Nintendo would risk cannabalizing their 3DS momentum, so they're likely just running down the clock.
Still, like a few have been saying, there's nothing wrong with just saying it's both. If we really have to identify it as anything, let's just call it a hybrid system/console like the rumors were pointing to.
..seems to be a new common question..
..is it a home or a portable?...
..it's a.. tiny home console?..
I'm not sure what it is, but I know why Ninteod is calling it a "Home console", and neither the article nor the 75 comments before me mentioned it:
You can't sell a $299 "portable". Period. For $299 it has to be labeled a "home console".
Somebody told me the Japanese price of 29,500 Yen is US $262. So basically Nintendo is trying to sell it in Japan as handheld, but they left the dock in the box anyway to keep all Switch the same. But in the west it's a $300 "home console" b/c a $300 portable, even w/ TV out, just isn't going to fly. It may be a $300 portable w/ TV out, but you can't sell it to people telling them that.
It's hardware capabilities compared to the competition combined with how it's being marketed as usable as a portable makes it a handheld. If the Switch succeeds, expect Nintendo to phase out the 3DS to encourage more Switch sales. If the rumored Pokemon Stars is only on the Switch as is expected, that process has already begun.
But it's being marketed as "home console" to justify the AAA home console price they're applying to many of the Switch games.
@Turbo857 I've seen nothing up to this point to suggest that home console gaming on the go can be a mainstream success. I see the masses largely shrugging their shoulders at that selling point. Now, if it had all the games the other guys get and then some, Switch might have a chance. But it doesn't even have that.
Right now, Switch has about everything a core Nintendo fan wants out of the system, and that's about what the Wii U offered. No one outside of the Nintendo core cared about the uniqueness of dual screen gaming. Not enough to be a mainstream success.
It matters 100% from a marketing perspective, as that will set the tone of expectations and positioning.
Jesus, there's some prime buzzkills up in here tonight.
It's whatever I want it to be.
A Portable IS a Console just as much as
A Stationary is a console.
LEARN THE PROPER TERMS NINTYLIFE STAFF!
I though the whole point of the switch is that it is both... that's why its revolutionary... you can't compare it to anything because it's the first of its kind.
is a stupid question its a Handheld console like the 3DS is a handheld console or portable console.
It is a hybrid. Hence the name Switch. It is up to you how you use it.
Wish i could jump forward in time to release or even E3. Every Nintendo site is running the same story. And the split of fandom 3ds/wii u vs switch, then switch vs ps4/xbox arguments are getting boring already.... as they are same discussions on nearly every article.
It's more a home console than a handheld. The system isn't small and portable like the 3ds was. It's size is similar to a tablet but obviously you're going to need a bag to carry the thing.
Personally I think a PS Vita Tv style unit, a switch without a screen at a budget price, is much more likely
@rjejr
I agree with this. Lovely how the US is getting price gouged.
Why does everything have to be in $50 increments? A $269 or $279 launch price would incredibly competitive and boost perceived value. Nobody could female dog about price at that point.
@DarkKirby hope switch does good, i do think 3ds is starting to phase out, but not quite the new 3ds, personally i got about 25 games for 3ds thats aaa, wii u for new games like 6 aaa, more of a vc purchases and eshop indies this time around.
id be okay if i got atleast 13 AAA thats new stuff for me to buy personally thats hinted at and facted, fe warriors, fe main 2018, xenoblade 2, Shin Megami Tensei, Project Octopath Traveler, zelda breath of wild, rumors of metroid teaser next year, so i'm about 50% for titles, just for maybe 2 years, alot better than wii u.
To the topic, I think it's a handheld at heart. Home consoles are generally intended to be used in the home with a TV. Home consoles also don't have screens built into them. It's the most powerful handheld ever. That's not a bad thing, but it's true.
This is like calling Optimus Prime a truck or a robot. Or like calling an inkling a squid or a kid.
@BLP_Software Humans? I think that blue one could use a little help.
Of course it's a console. I think the question should be "Is it a Handheld CONSOLE or a Home CONSOLE?".
Anyway, it's both.
@Iggy-Koopa
@SharkAttackU guessing stores a really lazy, have trouble with numbers, stores like to slash consoles at $50 a time easy, its too hard for them to just go from 279. to 229.99 maybe its harder to read people's spending habits.
reactions 249.99 well its not 200 but its nicer than 300
reactions 299.99 man its not 250 glad its not 350
reactions 3:49.99 i'll get it on sale for 300 maybe
reactions 199:99 day one buy
reactions 99:99 sign me up i'll take 5 for 1 myself, 1 for bro, 2 for my niece and nephew,( 1 for my boss. (big raise ))
reactions for .99 everyone can get one. no brainer
"I said if I'm thinking of being my games,
It don't matter if it's Handheld or Console.
It's Handheld, It's Console
It's though for me to say it
It's Handheld, It's Console, Woo !"
(Black or White - Michael Jackson)
I didn't know if i slot my PSVita into a toaster and connect it to the TV its classed as a console, amazing. Sony should "Switch" its ads, the PSVita is a hybrid console, just make a square bit of plastic with a HMDI cable and slap $90 on it and magic its a Home Console.
It clear people don't know the difference between the two, a Console is a device thats sits under your TV. With each generation seeing improved hardware, a Handheld is a portable device that can only be so powerful because of the nature of it. Hence the reason the Switch graphics is unimpressive if called a Home Console, a barely graphical set up from the Wii U. But as a Handheld its a different story graphics wise, i think after the Wii U Nintendo is done with Home Console's.
I envision playing this propped up in someone else's home quite a bit: using the screen for two-player games without tying up a TV. Since I know someone else who is getting one I'm guessing we'll have impromptu 4-player local multiplayer games and it won't matter where we are gathered together or what TV setup they have, we'll be able to have a blast. (Bomberman, Mario Kart, 1-2-Switch)
What is that a "handheld" system? A "home" console? No, it's a Nintendo Switch. It strikes me as much more than the sum of its parts. Not everyone will see it that way even after they play it, but you know, we all have different tastes in gaming.
I also imagine plugging this in or using an external battery while away from home — the connection is a standard and I have several batteries I already use for phones/tablets/3DS. I'd rather not pay in weight or price for a battery with a longer life honestly.
You know what though? We'll be spending most of our time playing Zelda on a big screen to see all that scenery and drama. Yes, it will be fun to do side quests and such on the go, stealing time as an additional function, that's a bonus. I'm glad we get to share the big moments as a family.
@rjejr and I are in total agreement with the article's suggestion about a more portable version of the Switch popping up in 1.5 to 2 years (less if 3DS tanks). Plenty of places to save money by making it less versatile, smaller, less power-hungry screen. Bring it down to $199, and it can replace 3DS XL with a shared library that is already started.
It's both a handheld and a console. Unfortunately, trying to make it multiple things has made it more expensive, which will put off the more casual market.
I think it's both, and I am excited for that. I am sure Nintendo will create iterative versions like they did with 3ds to improve it over the years. I could definitely see the switch with a long life.
It's a handheld, a home console, and a tabletop console. However, for 3rd party AAA games the fact that it is a handheld will be its biggest marketing tool. That is kind of how they are marketing it, but they need to get Assassins Creed, COD etc on the system.
By the looks of the library, it's both a handheld and a home console. Since it's a crossover, there will be the strengths and weaknesses of both devices. Of course, it is also what the market decides it is, and it's up to Nintendo to try and position it the way it wants. While Zelda is definitely console-style, games like XC 2 blur the lines, and Project Octopath Traveler screams "handheld." It is literally everything at this point.
@Megas Is this sarcasm or something? Twilight Zone? What is this post about?
@Ps4all i'm pretty sure we will get new versions at some point, based on older hardware xp, probable not with the wii u this time from Nintendo , no real proof, just instinct. i'll say this the largely depends on units sold and games gear toward that makes money. kids might want a smaller one, adults more power as a example.
names guesses could be coughs
who wants a New switch instead of switch? plays all switch and new switch games (similar to new3ds)
who wants a Portable switch?
who wants a home console switch?
who wants switch xl?
who wants mini switch?
who wants switch sandwich? (joke)
unless Nintendo tries something different with naming schemes.
switch is a hybrid
I think I will probably never play this outside of my living room. The reason is psychological... The type of games I will play on the Switch once i get one are games I cannot enjoy outside. Tried to play Ocarina 3D on a morning train ride and it was a horrible experience playing this surrounded by strangers. Couldn't concentrate or feel immersed.
Had no problems playing Gameboy games anywhere as child. Strange...
It's BOTH. Is there some reason for stupid questions like this?
I'm probably going to use it 50/50 when it comes to on the TV and as a portable. I like to play on the big screen typically, but there are plenty of times where I just want to lie down in bed and play a portable. Plus being able to bring it on the go for when I travel is amazing.
@roboshort If third parties can downscale the visuals on their games to get PS4 and XBOX One third party titles on the Switch... that would be a game changer.
It's whatever the customer sees it as. In my case, both.
@HefHughner
Don't worry. You can take Switch outside without worrying about strangers. Ignore them if they started looking at you. Be confident.
If I have Switch, I will take it outside oftenly, play my Switch on the go while i'm walking inside Mall or public place (Of course I still have to set my awareness). And if I have a chance, I can ask someone to play Switch together.
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with headlines like this? The Wii U had a big problem because people didn't know whether it was a home console or handheld. Articles like this just confuse the dumb consumers.
@Megas Never mind. Didn't see your first post. It's just some divisive schtick based on hyperbole you've got going. Though you were serious (or in serious need of help).
Right now, Nintendo is labeling the Switch as a "home gaming system with portability" that succeeds the Wii U for three reasons:
1) The Switch is $300. Handhelds don't usually cost that much. The 2DS is literally 27% the price of a Switch right now.
2) The 3DS is still selling fairly well, with a handful of games in the pipeline. In case the Switch bombs, Nintendo is going to need something to fall back on.
3) Most Switch games that have been announced so far are sequels/ports of Wii U games. Sequels/ports of 3DS games, like Pokemon Stars and FE 2018, have either not been announced or have not been shown off yet.
If the Switch is successful, I am certain that Nintendo will begin to phase out the 3DS, introduce a Switch configuration that doesn't come packaged with a dock or grip for $200, and promote that particular bundle as a handheld/tabletop hybrid that succeeds the 3DS. Nintendo will distinguish between the Switch and Switch "Portable" in their marketing much like how the New 3DS XL and 2DS are distinguished, despite the two still being part of the 3DS family.
The truth is, the lines between handheld and console gaming has been blurring for much of this generation. Street Fighter 4 3D, Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D, StarFox 64 3D, DKC Returns 3D, Zelda Majora's Mask 3D, Xenoblade Chronicles (N3DS only), Dragon Quest VII & VIII, Hyrule Warriors Legends, Mario Maker, and Yoshi's Woolly World are all home console games that have been ported/remade on the 3DS.
The only thing preventing 3DS games from being considered "console quality" is the low 240p resolution of those games. Other than that, the vast majority of big 3DS games, sequels or ports/remakes alike, have the same or similar scope and scale of console games.
Well, it is truly both, and anyone who insists it is either one or the other is either pushing an agenda or not being real with themselves. But at its core, it's a portable device with a screen, therefore, at its core it's a handheld, but one that is strong enough to simultaneously function as a console and comes equipped with the necessary accessories to do just that.
That said, I view it more as the most powerful and capable and amazing handheld ever created, so powerful and capable in fact that it actually runs console games despite being a portable device. Handhelds are usually restricted to smaller games due to their portable form factor, but Switch manages to bridge the gap between being portable and still providing home console power and a home console experience.
The fact it docks and plays games on the TV is a testament to just how powerful it is as a handheld. You wouldn't sell a 3DS that docks because it just can't offer a legit console experience. Vita tried, but the Vita was already having troubles and the lack of buttons on the handheld translated into mapping touchscreen shortcuts, which backfired on the Vita TV with controller support and compatible games. Not to mention, it just wasn't powerful enough. It was respectable for sure, and impressive for the time, but Switch it was not.
In the end though, it's both, and that's the magic of it. People can argue about which angle to market it, but I say don't go with either side, stick with both. It is both, so market it as such. You are getting a home console, yes. You also are getting the most powerful handheld ever created, one that actually runs console games from this generation. One that actually runs Unreal Engine 4. It's both, not one or the other. And people aren't stupid like many make them out to be. If you clearly explain it is both people will understand that they are getting both for their money.
I don't know. When you compare the features of the Switch as a handheld and then the features as a console, well, it seems more like a handheld as its the handheld features which intrigue the most (free local multiplayer). Also, the specs make it look like a handheld (mobile chipset). If the Switch wasn't portable and just a home console with those specs, I'd seriously question Nintendo's judgement.
If I end up getting one, I will probably end up playing about 90% handheld, while sitting in my own house, just like my Wii U. This makes me hesitate to buy one, but I definitely like the thought of being able to play Zelda, Skyrim, etc. while laying in my bed.
Nintendo is marketing the Switch as a home console instead of a handheld so they can sell us games at $60 instead of $40.
@SuperWeird
Well, given its running console games they'd be foolish not to.
I'm pretty sure that at least 75% of my Switch use will be at home. Therefore, I view it as a console that can be taken on the go when needed. However, it seems more appropriate for Nintendo to market Switch as a portable that can be docked at home when necessary.
I just feel that Nintendo might be shooting themselves in the foot, if they get rid of the DS line of systems. I know that the switch is also a handheld, but the idea of a console/handheld hybrid system is still a bit of a gamble for Nintendo, especially since it doesn't have the exact portability nor familiarity of what the DS had.
Plus if the switch does fail (Not necessarily saying it will, it's just a "what if" scenario.) then Nintendo doesn't have anything to really fall back on.
I gotta be honest here. The Switch doesn't really look all that portable, with the DS or heck the Gameboy, you could fit it in your pocket and carry it around with you no problem. But with the Switch you need a case, because it is much to bulky.
The key selling point for me was this will be the Nintendo console and that is what they need to do, they cant support both a home system and a handheld the last generation showed that. Hopefully they stick to this being there handheld as well but if they decide they need a handheld as well then they need to make it so that games can still be played on the switch.
That's cool of Nintendo encouraging Wii U owners to upgrade and all. But they need to start speaking up on how people who still own the U if they can seamlessly transfer every vc purchase to the Switch and maintaining the same Nintendo i.d. And to keep it fair, Nintendo shouldn't add any silly charges for doing so. If they do, then that would be ripoff city...
It's a console either way... the question should be whether it's a home console or a handheld console.
Just call it what it is... a hybrid console... it's neither one nor the other, it's a bit of both.
The term had been circulating a lot a few months ago, but for some reason everyone suddenly started identifying it as one or the other again... I don't understand why that happened though.
I only read the last paragraph and I sense I have all the important information.
I think it does matter.
When you put ALL MARKETING aside and just view the Switch as a piece of technology, the Switch is a portable device with average power that has the ability to connect to the TV.
The issue with marketing as a console, even part console, is expectations. Those who thinks graphics are a minor issue is a minority. If someone owns a PS4 ,XBONE, or PC and sees that the Wii U's multiplats are visually last gen compared to what they have, it's all up to the exclusives to sell them on the console.
Nintendo did a great job in the Switch's reveal of showing off the 'power on the go' selling point of the console, however in the recent presentation they presented it more as a home console.
A handheld more powerful than a Wii U or Vita that you can connect to the TV is pretty cool. Unfortunately, the masses are more convinced that it's an underpowered console you can take on the go. That's not good.
Is the Nintendo Switch a Handheld or Console? Does it Matter?
It's both and it doesn't matter, you can play games on a big TV and then you can play on a much smaller screen on the 'go'. It's good and I am looking forward to March 3.
Great article Thomas! I feel the same way as you, and feel Nintendo isn't marketing the Switch to its full potential or as attractive to potential buyers as possible. Currently they are marketing Switch as the most versatile home gaming console and a home console you can also play on the go. Which is fine ... except calling it solely a home console draws comparisons to the PS4 and Xbox One, both of which are more powerful and cheaper than the Switch. Yes, calling it a home console you can take on the go is attractive to some people, but I feel that most potential buyers will shrug and say that the convenience of playing on the go is not worth sacrificing power, graphics, and more third-party games, not to mention the extra cost to playing on the go in addition to aforementioned sacrifices. And the average Joe will see a $250 PS4 or Xbox One with a game, compared to a $300 Switch with no games included, and probably pick up the PS4 or Xbone cause his/her friends have one.
I'm not saying the Switch is a poor machine; it seems to be an amazing console. And in this case I'm not arguing about the price (though I do think the cost should be lower for both the console and accessories to really drive adoption). In this case, what I'm saying is that if Nintendo could market the Switch as "the most powerful handheld ever made, and the most versatile home console ever made, all in one device, for only $299," that could be far more appealing, and also tell people that this isn't just a GameCube/Wii/Wii U (or simply a Nintendo home console) that can be played anywhere on the go, but a GameCube/Wii/Wii U PLUS a Game Boy/DS/3DS (or simply a Nintendo handheld system) all in one device for just $299. That I feel could really attract the average person into buying a Switch. The average Joe would then think, "I remember buying a DS for $150 and then a Wii for $250 for the kids. Now we can get both a DS and a Wii for $300, WITH two controllers! Perfect for the family!"
I know Nintendo isn't doing what I said in the previous paragraph because they're afraid of cannibalizing 3DS sales, but they need to wake up and realize that if they're too concerned with protecting the 3DS, they're going to hinder the Switch right from day one. They should still make games for the 3DS and sell the 3DS, but they should also talk about the Switch as their most powerful handheld ever and, yes, the successor to the 3DS. 3DS will have a market regardless due to its cheaper entry point and mature library, so losing a couple extra sales of the 3DS in return for making the Switch more attractive to potential buyers is much better, IMHO.
It's a home console because it's priced like a home console and too expensive to compete in the pure portable market, it's replacing the Wii U, and Nintendo's 3DS is still selling. That's their official line because that's where it fits in their product line. We are free to call it whatever we like, however.
It's not complicated it's a very portable home console it's not replacement for the 3DS which Nintendo have made very very clear and speaking of 3DS which is still at this point the best selling current gaming device 60 plus million selling units and in the current market that is remarkable in itself, the 3D effect is very popular and a court battle under Nintendo's belt I don't see Nintendo dropping the use of their 3D screens in the future as well I don't understand how it can be said Nintendo struggled to bring content to 3DS and Wii U the Wii U yes certainly they did the 3DS no way there are a countless number of titles on and coming at a steady pace for 3DS . The other elephant in the room the Switch being underpowered all I think is people please for real come on its in no way underpowered it has beautiful graphics capabilities which to me is pretty obvious are people not seeing the games I've seen so far and this is graphics out of the gate the Switch has not even official hit the streets yet, I mean I just really don't see a big jump for graphics from anyone the PS4 pro is just silly fanboy antics at best yet who can fault Sony they know this as well people have a need to say mines bigger LoL. All and All the Switch is what Wii U should have been sleek, sexy NOT a bubble looking childs toy .
@Megas haha, maybe. But its not just about the strangers. Playing a game like Zelda is very special. Somehow its important to me to feel comfortable to really immerse myself into the game. The only games i would play outside would be something like Tetris.
I will be using it undocked when I'm not in my game room. I like to watch hockey or football while I play rpg's. When in my game room I have enough TV's in there I could play docked and watch tv. Ether way I'm pumped for the switch. I does not bother me one bit that the xbone and ps4 are slightly more powerful. I use my xbox oneS for third party and Nintendo for the rest and I'm happy.
In Next Week's Episode:
The Internet debates whether a 'house boat' is in fact a house, or a boat...
Until then, good night.
As someone who hardly ever plays on the go, to me it matters. I would have preferred a simple and more affordable home console with only the pro controller. So no display and joy-con controllers. This closes the door to the more unique types of games, but let's be honest, they're novelties at best. Everyone wants the bigger titles and the indies.
I don't feel its necessary to pick one or the other. A hybrid is a legitimate thing.
That said, with a gun to my head I would pick handheld. All of its limiting factors are dictated by its handheld aspects rather then by its home console aspects.
Most of you are probably too young to remember before laptops there were some computers called transportables that looked about like a sewing machine.....Switch modern transportable.
Look its a portable with a home element. They just dont want to market that way to kill off 3DS too soon. I fully expected a nomdock version in Japan by years end. 2017 good year for 3DS 2018 its the little bro system and then maybe a Switch Light thats slimmer better battery life and cheaper cause no dock support and a Switch pro thats 1080p/4K docked and supports Nintendo's VR.
Switch is a very scaleable platform that could offer s lot of iiterations.....Want a cool idea.....a dual switch doc that teams the cpus/gpus to offer more power and ram....
I only bought a 3DS to play it's exclusives(of which there is a lot). Very rarely do I actually use it as a portable. If I'm someones drive for an appointment or have to wait in an office for an appointment myself. The power goes out. I'm on the crapper.
About 90 % of the time I would rather be playing games on my tv. I hope the switch is the beginning of the end of separate Nintendo consoles. Just one console that I can hook up to my tv or take with me if I have a reason.
It's a Homeheld!
But seriously, it's both, but the dock adds almost nothing to it. And it can technically be run at full clockspeed while on the go; the limitation is just a rule set by Nintendo.
@Romeo-75 I don't know, man. Nintendo said the same thing about the NX not replacing the Wii U. And we all know how that turned out. Let's just hope they keep the 3ds going a little bit longer, since it's one of Nintendo's best selling hardware at the moment, besides the Nintendo Switch pre-orders.
@elhozzo Nintendo doesn't listen to its customers. :/
It's a console. Doesn't fit in your pocket, so not a portable.
@Kanbei @3MonthBeef you can play Zelda in Bed, on WiiU, the system it was designed from the ground up on. No need to pay the $300 switch tax to play the upcoming Zelda title.
@Tyranexx It needs games to play. And right now it has two WiiU ports (Zelda and MK8) a Splatoon sequel, and a new Mario game late in the year. 3rd party? It's not getting Andromeda, although they have been talking to EA since the beginning. IDK...
@XCWarrior
The Switch isn't pocketable. It is most definitely portable.
There is a big difference between "portable" and "pocketable."
Is the Switch a portable or a home console? Is a tablet a laptop or a smartphone? Is a smartphone a phone or a PDA? They're all none of those things, they're new product categories.
@westman98 A cumbersome portable at that. Even if it does have a stand in the back.
I think Nintendo saw the sales disparity between the 3DS XL, New 3DS XL, and 2DS (the relatively large 3DS models) compared to the sales of the 3DS and New 3DS (the small and pocketable 3DS models) and determined that selling a large handheld was what the market wanted.
It's a handheld that can hook up to your tv with an hdmi output on the dock that it comes with. It's made with a mobile chipset and the core of the Switch is in the tablet-portion. The "home console," aspect, as mentioned before, is just a dock with a fan for overclocking (which could be done on the Switch itself if you rooted it or something, for stability purposes its underclocked by default) and an hdmi out. It's not doing any additional work. In addition, 2 of the 3 uses for the Switch according to Nintendo are portable options. It's really clear the device is a handheld but they are marketing it as a home console with portable options because they cannot compete in home marketplace anymore head to head so they've created a niche for themselves.
It's no more a home console than a laptop hooked up to a TV is a desktop, it's all just buzzwords Nintendo is throwing around to create a market. Personally, I'd rather they just market the Switch as, "The Most Powerful Handheld ever," but obviously that would cannibalize 3ds sales but hey, it's more appealing than "underpowered home console that won't be getting any major multiplatform titles once again."
From a tech perspective, it's a handheld. From a design/marketing standpoint, it's a handheld. The only "home console," aspect is a tv hook up. Nintendo can keep calling something that quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, walks like a duck and has the same genetic composition as a duck a swan but it's a duck.
@3MonthBeef Great plan! Hope that works out well for ya. :]
The simple answer to that is that it's both. It's supposed to be both. That's the whole idea. Still, I'd love a dedicated portable in the form of a new supercharged 3DS.
@DanteSolablood
This so much this. Beauty in the eye of the beholder. The switch is whatbee it's bought for. Some will buy it for a home console. Some will but it as a portable.
My guess is it will be a hybrid to the majority of the people that purchase, percentages of home/portable use to be determined per person. It's the console that allows for options.
@LegendOfPokemon
I understand form the business side, but to my layman mind, consolidating the resources of the 3ds with the switch makes for a killer app. There will be people that would still buy a 3ds if the switch was announced as its successor.
Throw in a price cut, and you have a seeet system with a redonkulous catalog of games for all interests. And I would bet that Switch sales would increase as those that primarily game on a portable make the leap to the next gen.
Eh it's a debate but in the end I think you kind of have to look now how much how we perceive it as much as giving credit towards those who develop for it including Nintendo internal handling.
It seems to me despite the console you can carry message, it appears on the inside it's more of a Neo-Geo X handling of things...it's a portable that you dock to your TV for a visual performance gain. They merged their troubled console R&D/game development group into one with the handheld which wasn't suffering. Handheld had these developers that shunned the console. Handheld had the easier kits, easier development, more open arms to third parties which they hugged fairly well with 3DS and more so as you go back. The designs of much here doesn't scream to me, must use on TV or else so far too. Games we see vary as well and so do the prices along side doing around the $30-40 and up mark.
If we're expected to consider it a portable, what kind of StreetPass features does it have? I know tons of people really like that about the 3DS, not to mention the 3D visuals. Especially with how impressive the new models' super-stable 3D is, and considering how there's really no competition for that technology, I think some people won't be interested in completely giving up such a unique visual experience, and will still be bringing their 3DSs with them.
I realize their idea is to replace both Wii U and 3DS, but why should people settle for a portable system that isn't as convenient or even capable of all the things a 3DS can do? I'm just hoping they realize that it isn't a replacement, and continue to support both. I think with the huge number of people that own 3DSs now, who won't be able to get a Switch for whatever reason (or even be interested) is more than enough reason to keep making games for it as long as they continue to sell.
@westman98 I guess, but it's still a bit more clunky then it's predecessor.
Well, it's an electronic device with a screen attached to it, it's not too heavy and big like typical laptops, so I'd say it's a handheld. Otherwise I can call my tablets a home console just because I can connect them to the tv via hdmi. Nintendo is just calling it a home console because they can, but it's definitely a handheld.
@mdfezasmbroxeno web browser is basic stuff though. Surely they'd see fit to give us that. The 3DS has one and I can't see them taking that big a step backward. I'll eat my hat if not.
@Retr_acro how many tablets can run Zelda Botw? A 14GB game? . It may merge 3 markets. Home: handheld: mobile. There is talk of "apps" afterall.
@Megas Dude, I don't know if you were being serious, but that was gold.
To answer you question..... Toga party.
@wiggleronacid Yeah, it would be a big boost to the Switch. The question, though, I think is not whether they can port them to the Switch but whether Nintendo convince them to. My guess is they want to negotiate favorable terms with Nintendo... like advertisement, cash considerations, etc. It looks like Nintendo may be willing to do that with the Switch, but they are perhaps being a little conservative.
What we have to keep in mind is, that Nintendo needs to keep the 3DS for a while longer.
Think about it: How does Nintendo make money? It is only with games!
If they wouldn't continue with the 3DS, they could pretty much only make money with Switch games. Successful or not, a console can not make enough profit for the whole company in its first year.
A perfectly ridiculous article title.
It's a powerful handheld with a TV dock.
"T. Yoshisaur Munchakoopas"
"Munch" in a name always leads to trouble.
As a handheld lover, to me the Switch will always be... both, actually. I do enjoy playing games on TV from time to time. But I don't want to be tied to that TV while in my house, let alone tied to the house itself. No no no, Switch as a handheld is where it's at.
Also, I always travel with two USB chargers. I guess that one choice turned out to be prophetic in the end.
I think the flexibility of this system is what excites me most. I can enjoy my games on the main tv in the living room or if the wife wants to watch some dull costume drama I can remove it from its dock and play on the sofa. I can take it off into another room and play table top and even get my son involved in a quick blast of Mario kart. Take it with me on holidays or business trips. I'll probably get a second dock to put into the kids room so they can take it and play on their tv. Due to its flexibility classifying as a home console or portable console seems reductive. It's a games console that allows you to play your way.
I don't think Nintendo are doing a very good job of convincing me to upgrade to Switch. I don't want a Zelda game that I can get cheaper on Wii U, and a so called sequel that looks barely different to the original, I.e Splatoon 1.5.
Then there's several games just being re-released; MK8, Minecraft, Minecraft Story Mode, Lego City. Plus ancient rehashes SF2 and Bomberman.
Paid for online with comms via mobile phone app, expensive games and peripherals. So far announced, limited 3rd party support.
None of this convinces me to 'upgrade'.
It's whatever people want it to be, that's the unique beauty of it. For me , as it's quite large I will probably not take it out too much but I will play it undocked in bed, on the crapper, while NetFlix is on et cetera as much as I play it docked.
I don't feel the marketing has been muddled, the message has always been clear from the start.
The Switch is a home console that has the option of being taken on the go.
Also yes these first few WiiU ported games are only minor upgrades over their WiiU counterparts with improved resolutions FPS etc so may not entice WiiU owners. I'm hopeful that once the games designed specifically for Switch arrive like Mario Odessey we'll see the extra graphical grunt. Odessey does look pretty impressive already and we still have a best part of a year. First generation games are never as impressive as the games to follow (SNES SMW you could argue is an exception)
Its both to me. I only really play my handheld at work or in hotels on fieldwork. I have once or twice taken my Wii U to hotels to play when there's no pub to go to. But when I'm home the handheld gets ignored as I prefer a big screen experience. This caters to both of my gaming habits quite nicely and exactly what I would want in a console.
For me, its a home console that i can use as a handheld
In a perfect world the Switch would be as strong as its competitors, with a battery that lasts 20-30 hours. That would be awesome! And it would be even more awesome if time would stand still a few years for Microsoft and Sony, so that they would not go on with even more hardware power. Wouldn't it be great if they would decide "Yeah, Switch power is enough, we don't need better graphics that that in our next console". Than everyone would get equal multiplattform games.
Well, I'm just dreaming a bit...
Reality is that Switch will get watered down ports which come too late and cost too much. While it's nice to play the same games at home and on the go, it has still just Wii U graphics or maybe slightly better.
Is that enough to have fun? Sure! Will we get great first party games? Absolutely!
But most people don't think so and I think the Switch will struggle just like Wii U did.
People still discussing, The Switch is what Nintendo says it is, A Home console you can take on the Go. Simple as that. And is it already been confirmed that the Switch cant handle 3rd party games? Because i still cant find the exact specs anywhere besides speculations for people to talk like this on a FREAKING NINTENDO site!
Also very suprising that a lot of commenters here are falling for these doom scenarios mostly made buy Nintendo haters. Just listen to Player Essens on youtube. He is very optimistic but also critizises what is needed to be critizised. That how you should look at a new unreleased console instead of judging based on a past console.
It is so obviously a handheld that has the option to plug into the telle. It takes small little cartridges like all handhelds do.
I think the Wii u was Nintendo's last home console. Nintendo's strength is the handheld market so that is what they will focus on.
from a consumer prospective, I do not see the reason to establish whether it more of a console or a handheld, it will be more of one or the other in different ways for different people. Myself, for example, I reckon that im mainly going to be using it as a home console, however I have to take a dreary bus ride every morning, and will thus fullfill the role of a handheld in that instance. There is no point trying to set iron bars on such a flexible system.
It doesn't really matter it's the best of both worlds next to Nintendo games my next love is tower defense games now with multi touch screen we may get to see some great titles going to the Switch via developers from the Android /apple markets its a win win. (,keeping fingers crossed in hope)
As I see it...no matter what people think, many people would be afraid of getting made fun of to take it out in public and begin playing it...as well as older people do not enjoy doing that. In doctor offices, I'd take out my 3DS at times, but other than that, I'd never feel like taking out something that a big tablet with joy con controls on the side...imagine what people would be saying! Other than that, when I eventually purchase one, it'll be sitting as a console, with very little chance that I'll take it out and use it as a portable...it's too big to fit in my pocket and I wouldn't want to mess up the screen...even with a screen protector, it'll still get dirty, and having that dirt go into the game slot or vents is a bad idea to me, especially for an expensive machine (By the way, before people comment to me about this, I do not own a cell phone and don't want one, I don't own an I Pad, only a laptop...and I don't own a 3DS or VITA anymore either). I can see kids using it, but that comes down to parents stuffing it in purses or backpacks...something fathers won't do either, at least I wouldn't do for my kids. Other than that, it'll be a console hybrid, that's it!
The question if it matters is as naive as it gets to be quite frank.
Remember the WiiU and what the confusion about its name did to it ?
Its status is, if you ask me, of key importance. Market it as home console, and people write it off for its lack of power. If you market it als handheld device, its the most powerful of its kind, offering the first ever native multiplayer on a single handheld and it can be used on a TV via an elaborate TV-Out.
The perception of the system itself vastly differs depending on how its marketed. Marketing it as a home console first underplays its core strengths by miles.
Here's my take...Nintendo could tell me the sky is purple, it doesn't mean I believe them. The switch is a handheld that has the benefit of being output and upscaled to the TV and the fact it's a platform that hosts Nintendo software I'm perfectly fine with that. I can understand why they wouldn't address it as such for several reasons:
1. The 3DS is still running strong, in their eyes they'd rather not suffocate its sales and bury it by calling it a successor.
2. Calling it a home console allows you to charge "console" prices for the software.
3. They want to bury all instances of the Wii U as possible.
4. Console's are more appealing to the west.
5. Defining it as a console, you can charge out the gate "console prices" for the hardware.
But come on at the end of the day this is a machine that has all of its guts in the tablet, it can live its life without ever being plugged into the TV if you so wish, that there defines its role. Besides if it acted more as a tablet there would be CPU/GPU in the dock where it would function as a higher powered and also key point..stationary console. Now maybe they opt to do that in the future but then it would be a true hybrid in its nature.
I wouldn't mind Nintendo marketing it to other way around handheld first without stationary benefits and distance themselves even further from the other companies and stacking up against condole horsepower etc and also to alert the handheld seekers out there this will be the latest piece of tech of tech for them...But as listed above I can acknowledge some potential reasons why they may not want to go that route.
At the end of the day though I'll be supporting this and looking forward to the innovative titles and fresh software because I really do enjoy Nintendo and the games + experiences that come along with it. For me it's a perfect additional console to house for my entertainment needs.
@XCWarrior The Switch without the Joy-Cons can easily fit in a pocket. Nintendo needs to design a clamshell peripheral that you slide the Switch on to, with the controls/external battery on the bottom shell, then you'd have a pocketable Switch.
Personally the switch is a Hybrid. I'm excited that Nintendo will potentially develop games for just one console.
Thus, more games available to play.
@Jaded_Drybones Very true. Unfortunately my Wii U lives in the basement. After seeing the full reveal though, I probably will be getting it on Wii U.
It's clearly a handheld that just plugs in your TV, if the dock actually did something like have an ethernet port or a hard drive or maybe some way of adding processing power then it'd be different. If anything the console loses features by being docked, I mean what if a game is made where the touch screen is used extensively? It's inaccessible whilst docked.
Clearly the Nintendo Switch is not a dinosaur.
I think they should keep 3DS going as long as they can. Especially if they can make more use of the New 3DS extra power that it has. There are tons more games I would get for it if I had the time and money
If it HAS to be one it is a handheld. My laptop has an HDMI socket that allows me to connect it to my TV and I can also use a dock for this feature. That doesn't make it a desktop PC.
All of that said, both are just labels to allow us to restrict our ideas and creativity. Nintendo get many things wrong but one thing they should always be applauded for is trying to create without such restrictive labels to allow them to try new things rather than to always fit their ideas into the restrictive framework of the commonly accepted norm.
It's a (very powerful) handheld that plugs into your TV. Nintendo were always better with their handhelds, they got out of the console game for good with this new hardware, it uses cartridges, it's got more features that allow it to be played on the go, it's a mobile.
If the earlier rumours about the dock and accessories adding more processing power we're true, then I'd say it was a console then, but it's not, it's a mobile device and a pretty expensive one at that.
3rd Party developers are going to bring 'custom experiences' to the Switch, it's never going to contain a fully fledged GTA or a Naughty Dog title, okay, it's got the power to do so but the 3rd Party developers have moved on, their sights are set and they will utilise the processing power of a PS4 and XBox (Pro and Scorpio too) so the Switch is a different proposition of a platform entirely.
I'd still buy it as a 'home console' but I'll be forever thinking it's technically less powerful than Sony and Microsoft offerings, but I also appreciate it's more a hybrid with different playing styles possible, so we're not comparing apples with apples.
I think it depends on what game you're playing at what time. Because it's got the ability to switch between both functions as per the hardware, it's probably best played in specific ways to get the most out of it.
Hear me out: When it comes to the big hitters like Breath of the Wild, it'd undoubtedly be best on the big screen. That's not to say it can't be played portably - it has that function. But we all know we'll be more than happy to sit in front of our HD flat screens for the full experience.
Whereas let's say something like Disgaea 5, (yes, I know it was originally on the PS4 but again, hear me out) nothing happens on screen until you commit to an action or button press. No need to pause or press the home button to inturrupt play. And honestly, the best Disgaea experiences I've ever had were on my PSP back when I was still in school. Took it to classes with me and everything. The battery life on it probably wouldn't be as demanding as it would with Breath of the Wild, which means having it with you on the go makes it a much more personal experience. Best played portably, I'd say.
See where I'm going with this?
It's a hybrid.
Any other questions?
I don't think it matters.
People can buy it for whichever aspects they like.
I think Nintendo's main reason for saying that the Switch is a home console is the pricing of the games. Fans of portable game systems have become accustomed to the idea that games on portables are cheaper than games on home consoles. One of the reasons that Sony stopped producing big budget games for the Vita was that they found portable game fans are not willing to pay high prices for games and thus they could not make HD games profitable on the Vita. Nintendo does not want the Switch to get stuck in that same perception issue. They want people to see that Switch games cost the same as Wii U games did and be OK with that because they are both home consoles rather than being ticked that Switch games are 33% more expensive than 3DS games (if they are both perceived as portables).
Was the first iphone a phone, a internet device, an ipod or a camera? All of that, that's the point.
It's neither cause it's both. Simple as that, nothing will change my opinion.
I'm buying it as a portable because I don't like being stuck at the TV.
Edit: Also, being able to connect it to the TV is a plus because, if I want to, I can share the experience with others.
Portable console?...
80% handheld, 20% console.
Because of Nintendo Switch I can give home console a try.
Im more like the handheld person.
They promote it as a console that you can also play on the go. But its a very low-tech console at that!
@mdfezasmbroxeno In that case, a Switch is WAAAAAY more than $300!
@yuwarite So you agree with me. They need to design a new system that is different to be portable.
I agree it should use Switch's OS, and it needs to be a clamshell, but that's a different system. We will hopefully get it in holiday 2018 when Switch sales are stagnant.
@westman98 NO there isn't. if I can't fit it in my pocket, it's not a portable system.
I look forward to all the videos in the first few weeks on youtube where people took their non-portable Switches out for fun, dropped them, and shattered the screen.
There will be MANY MANY videos in March. And my guess is, Nintendo will have in the warranty clause of, "You dropped it, you voided it" so they don't have to fix them for free.
Stop. You're all right!
Nintendo's messaging seriously manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again and again. There's always an extraordinarily clear message just waiting in the wings, and they instead ignore it, grab a shovel, and dig up the most pointless marketing signals they can possibly locate.
"It's a handheld" - well, obviously. It's a gaming console with its own screen running on a battery with it's own attached controllers all as a single device. That it's a handheld first and foremost can not be more clear just by looking at it.
"It's a home console" this is where their messaging becomes a soggy mush. No, it is not a home console if it is a handheld. What it IS however is a handheld so overpowered that it can play the games that formerly were reserved for consoles, and you can play it docked to your TV with a regular controller, identically to a console.
So what obvious point is their marketing missing as it slaps them in the face? WWHLD (What Would Howard Lincoln Do?) For that matter what would Sony or Microsoft do when trying to push the message that their new machine is the future of the industry, and they're far and away the leaders, already in the future while everyone else is stuck in the past?
The message should be simple: The home console is dead. Switch to the future.
It's not even slightly difficult to frame the argument that the idea of a power guzzling, heat spewing VCR-like disc reading box plugged into your TV looks like a vestige of the 1980's in a world surrounded by 6" tall .24" thick slates that have more power than a big beige box did when the Wii came out. Sony's box has more in common with the NES Classic Mini than the Switch. Who still uses those obsolete consoles, isn't it time they got with the mobile millennium? (throwing as many marketing-esque buzz words I can possibly think of at this.)
It's not very difficult to present that. Mobile tech is modern, set top boxes are obsolete. Mobile tech has caught up so much that you don't need a console anymore, the very concept is archaic, the newest handheld can do everything your console can do, all in a handheld device that can go anywhere. There's no need to separate handhelds from consoles in the modern world, the handhelds are consoles.
And it's an easy sell because it's all true. But Nintendo is so used to having to spin things to sound reasonable that when reality is actually in their favor, they impulsively spin it to the point that it no longer seems in their favor. We get "uhm, uhm, it's a home console...but you can take it with you...but it's really basically a Playstation....even though it's actually a lot cooler and more modern....because...uhh...PLEASE DON'T ABANDON 3DS!!"
I love 3DS, I love the autostereoscopic 3D. I'll miss it dearly. And I'm glad that 3DS isn't going away overnight (and I still have a huge backlog on it including DQ7, DQ8, and Sun/Moon.) But is it so hard to tell the market the "4DS" is now in town? Is it somehow bad to promote a newer, better, more expensive model? Heck, run 2 promos. One aimed at the console gamer telling them it's time to trade in the Sony VCR for modern tech, and another telling 3DS owners that HD has arrived on a Nintendo handheld with more power than ever before. Simple marketing...they might try it some time.
We've gone from "Now You're Playing With Power" and "Get N or Get Out" to "derrr, it's kinda like this console thing that you can pick up and play, like, somewhere else and stuff, I guess. And it can, like, do what the Wii did, and stuff, like, too?"
Edit: The funny thing was the original reveal trailer started to generate this sort of messaging. And then they Switched! to their typical equivocating style of marketing.
@XCWarrior
Ever heard of an iPad?? An iPad Mini? A laptop?? A Nintendo 2DS??
None of them are pocketable. All of them are portable.
Again, pocketable != portable.
@westman98 I own a laptop and an android tablet.
I can put them in my bag to transport. But they are inconvenient to just pull out at any point. Plus you have to hope there's a wifi hot spot unless you have a simcard for them.
Sounds like you're going to take your Switch with you. And you will get annoyed that you can't put it in your pocket. And if you are in line for something, you're going to start pulling your phone out after awhile, not your Switch, to kill the time, cause its portable.
@Henmii It's not a particularly low tech console. At it's absolute worst it's, in terms of power, a WiiU+ in a 6x4x.5" slate that runs entirely on a battery. There is nothing low tech about miniaturization. Even if we assume minimal customization on the SoC and assume it's a stock X1, that's still very very modern tech shared with the Shield and high end tablets.
@XCWarrior I do think it's likely a Switch Mini, Switch Go, or whatever will exist after they truly lose the 3DS, and would basically be a pocket size clamshell version of the Switch that can't be docked. It just makes sense to sell hardware to utilize the library to the very portable market. Especially considering the voracity of the Japanese mobile market and Nintendo's focus on delivering for them. Maybe not clamshell though. That's too visibly old school (though IMO it's the ideal design). Maybe a Gorilla Glass mini slate. or slide-out design.
@NEStalgia "Nintendo's messaging seriously manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again and again."
This part of your statement was dead on true.
Then you start rambling, just like Nintendo does (as you point out), and lost your message. Isn't it Ironic, don'tcha ya think?
As for your reply to me, I sure hope we get the Switch Mini/Go/Useful version sooner rather than later. LIke you said, Japan is a mobile market, and Switch is not a good mobile device when the battery life is 2-6 hours.
@XCWarrior
None of what you said proves that the Switch (or laptops or tablets or 2DSs) isn't a portable device.
Would I like the Switch to be smaller so that it could fit in my pocket?? Yes. Do I hopw that there is a slimmer Switch redesign in the future to phase out and suceed the 3DS?? Yes. But that doesn't mean the current Switch isn't a portable device.
@XCWarrior LOL, fair enough, though at least my rambling made accurate messaging examples of where Switch's position lies, while Nintendo's certainly did not
I think the Switch Mini is inevitable. The 3 factors they have to wait for to do it are:
-3DS's useful sales life to end. It's a tidy profit engine for now.
-The tech in the switch to get cheaper and possibly smaller with a smaller TDP envelope (essential for smaller, lighter batteries.)
-The "concept" of the Switch as a powerful console/handheld hybrid to totally settle in with the public before they confuse matters with a handheld.
The battery life on Switch is a big concern. At minimum they should be selling an "official" (overpriced) battery grip accessory. 3 hours for BotW is pretty low. 3-4 was the original 3DS battery life I think and was always too low. Though in Japan charging stations are everywhere so it's no big deal. That's how they can chew their phone battery down with endless bouts of P&D without risking missing calls.
@Jaded_Drybones: I don't deny that it could use more games, and to be honest I'm not getting the system at launch. However, I definitely will be playing Super Mario Odyssey, Skyrim, and Breath when I do get the Switch.
I should have been more specific: I don't care how a system is defined, so long as there are quality games for it that I enjoy.
@NEStalgia Yeah, having owned a OG 3DS, that thing was a disaster looking back. And since then that battery blew up so if I want to let my son play the OG 3DS I'll have ot buy a new one. That's why I can't consider Switch portable. Because the OG 3DS barely qualified b/c you basically had to have an outlet near you at all time after the first 50 charges.
@westman98 We are not going to agree on this. So let's call it a day.
While I totally get that argument of the Switch being its own thing and not falling into one of the existing categoriers, I still regard the Switch as a handheld with HDMI-out, simply because on a technical level, it is exactly that.
At this point this isn't even meant as criticism, just as a description of the facts (i.e. where the hardware lies, what kind of hardware is used etc).
I also doubt that there will be a 'portable only' version of the Switch. Not only because the Switch is already portable only (if you just never use the dock, which is an accessory, not part of the device), but also because the dock and hdmi-cable probably cost next to nothing in production. They contain almost no technology whatsoever.
I also don't think it's a good idea for Nintendo to keep the 3DS around much longer. Having two portable devices (or if you instist, let's call it 'two portable-enabled devices') at the same time will only cannibalize Switch sales.
If Nintendo want the Switch to be a success, they should end the 3DS's lifecycle in 2017, otherwise it will compete with the Switch and hurt its sales. Because lets face it, while it's not an option for me, the 3DS still has a lot going for it compared to the Switch: lower price, exclusive 3D-feature, huge game library etc.
I would definitely buy a Switch without the dock.I already play mostly on the gamepad,using the tv only for games were both screens are mandatory.
Just a thought:
How many people typed out their long and earnest arguments that "the Switch is a home console and therefore not a portable" (or vice-versa) on an iPhone or similar device?
And how many managed to finish and send their comments without holding their device aloft and yelling to the heavens, "If this is a phone, how can it be an MP3 player!? And if this is an MP3 player, how can it be camera!? And if this is a camera, how can it be a compass!? And if this is a compass, how come I can order pizza on it!?"
People seem to have accepted that a smartphone is a smartphone - with its myriad of functions - without too much resistance. But for some reason, a games console that can be played both on and off the TV needs to be PINNED THE HECK DOWN to avoid widespread existential crises.
The answer to the question,
"If it is a home console, how can it be a portable?"
is,
"By undocking it"
And similarly for the converse.
Of course, when it comes to what sort of games we'll get - those traditionally found on those or portable or home devices - there's a debate worth having, but beyond that the discussion is largely white noise.
@Manjushri Not creator: marketing hacks. That's why it's a talking point. Why is Nintendo marketing labeling "console that transforms into a portable" when anyone with eyes can see it's a handheld that can be used as a console. Focus group testing probably decided to separate themselves from Fire TV, Apple TV, Ouya, Vita TV, etc by saying "see it's a console that goes with you!" but it's a kind of weird marketing strategy by pretending it's something other than it does because they're promoting it's weaknesses as a console rather than its strengths as a portable. Heck, at worst they could say "a portable console" so as not to label it a "handheld" but isolate it from the word "Home" console where competing against tethered boxes that draw more power and throw more heat is where it compares the weakest.
@shani OTOH if we look at Nintendo as a handheld only company and pretend they aren't console, and that Switch is the new handheld not a new console, then why wouldn't they sell the old platform next to the new platform? Sony sold PS3 next to PS4, PS2 next to PS3; MS sold X360 next to X1 (they dropped original XBox though at X360 time because of other issues.) If anything it would be Nintendo engaging in console standard industry practice to sell the old model as a budget entry machine next to the premium product.
@XCWarrior Yeah. My Cosmo Black ones would deplete the batteries non-stop. Later era batteries even on the stock size 3DS I think got better....I got a Purple one later on and the battery was more reasonable, almost tied with 3DS XL. But only N3DSXL got it right (finally). Going back to that with Switch feels bad. Then again, my Vita bleeds batteries rapidly. Part of me hopes that Switch will have a replaceable battery even though we've heard nothing and rumors said no. One of the closeups in a presser showed a panel that seemed to be a consumer serviceable back plate for the battery. We'll see.
@NEStalgia That's what I meant; they can continue to sell the 3DS in 2017, but ultimately, they will have to stop it after this year has passed.
Sure, PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii were still sold when their successor's were released, but they slowly reduced sales and eventually stopped them. Or do you still see new PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii consoles being sold anywhere in electronics stores?
And the difference is: PS4 and XB1 were never in any danger of becoming a huge failure (although XB1 sales have been disappointing in Europe), but one could argue that with the Wii being sold next to the Wii U, many customers didn't understand that the Wii U is not a peripheral or accessory but the successor of the Wii. So while the Wii U didn't do well, the Wii still sold many units.
And since the Switch is not a guaranteed hit, I think it would be very hurtful for it if the 3DS would continue to be offered next to it. It seems to only confuse uninformed customers.
So for the sake of the Switch, I think 3DS sales should be terminated by the end of the year (give or take a few months).
Apart from that, I don't have any reason to oppose a continued sale of the 3DS. I just think that the last years have shown that many people - and I mean the mass market, not people who actually go on sites like NL and read up on these things - are just confused if the naming of the products is not simple and clear enough.
Those people need simplicity, they are capable of understanding PS -> PS2 -> PS3 -> PS4 and to some degree, Xbox -> Xbox 360 -> Xbox One.
But N64 -> Gamecube -> Wii -> Wii U -> Switch and Gameboy Advance -> DS -> 3DS -> Switch is just too complicated for them to grasp, apparently. Or it would require them to google it and apparently that's too much to ask.
Meanwhile, they don't have to google what the PS4 is, because they already know just by looking at the name.
But if they see the Switch and 3DS next to each other, they won't know which is the new one and which is the old one...
@SharkAttackU "Why does everything have to be in $50 increments? A $269 or $279 launch price "
Funny, I just wrote the same thing in a comment to someone else. $249 was unrealistic, Switch is a better device than $199 New 3DS XL or $299 Wii U. It just is better tech all around, that's a fact. So why would Nintendo offer Switch for only $249? But $299 puts it in PS4 Slim and X1S territory w/ their 500GB HDDs and blu ray players, so people complain. So why not $269 or $279? Split the difference. People might be so astonished by a price not divisible by $50 they praise it just for that. Probably more people would say "Well at least it isn't $300" than "Well it should be only $250". And the more Switch they sell, the more overpriced games and accessories they sell. And paid online subscriptions. $269 or $279, either one. A little good will.
@subpopz "This comment section is hilariously stupid. People are literally fighting and arguing over semantics and opinions of what a portable device is within their own lifestyles. There will never be a consensus on this"
They know what they're doing posting articles like these, they know it rattles people and they know some people are very touchy about the Switch right now.
It will be interesting to see how the perception regarding the Switch changes once Pokémon Stars is announced for the Switch.
@rjejr
It's a launch price. You start at the highest you can ever possibly charge for the machine because you can never increase the price, ever. People assume that just because Nintendo never dropped the WiiU's price they don't ever reduce price based on results or start with a pricing strategy that anticipates a price drop (despite that Sony does this predictably every cycle as a strategy, and Nintendo did it with the 3DS as a result of below expected results.) WiiU was a special case born of hubris. It's not that Nintendo's model involves selling at launch price forever. It's that they waaaaaay overestimated WiiU demand, manufactured tons of them in the first wave at full price on the tech and already paid for them all. They couldn't drop the price because they were selling inventory they already paid for at a price higher than what they're charging you for it. Dropping the price would be paying their customers to store their hardware. So WiiU never had a price cut. That doesn't mean that Switch's strategy doesn't anticipate a price drop at a specific point in its life cycle or when sales slow below an expected threshold. Maybe not $199....but $269, $279....why not? A March 3 release means it'll be over 8 months old at Black Friday, they can probably announce a price drop then while dropping Odyssey (if sales are slow, after all, price drop + Mario saved 3DS) or not drop the price if sales are strong.
@shani PS3, X360 are (mostly) not on sale anymore, but that's over 3 years later. They were still out there until at least a year ago. What you say, though, is probably the reason they're branding it so hard as a console, so they can avoid having to end the 3DS and prevent confusion (though it's a lot harder to think "Nintendo Switch" is related to "Nintendo New 3DS XL" than it was to think a "WiiU" is related to a "Wii". That goes back to: They stuck with the same branding, the same name, the same design language, and support for the same accessories, along side the older model, knowing the market was not the most core base of the industry, which invited confusion." At least with Switch, there's little to associate with 3DS beyond that they are both Nintendo branded. I don't disagree with you overall, and it's a fact they're going to sunset 3DS overall, and segment it as entry/budget. I don't think we'll see new 1st party games after 2017, though I think they'll continue to market the low budget 3DS hardware/platform somewhat in 2018 without selling new games.
It's funny, I wrote the above before even reading to the end where you mention the confusion on the shelf! But yeah, I mean look at a Wii box and then look at a WiiU box. Other than a "U" what looks different? Especially on a console known for being bundled with a lavish array of accessories, who wouldn't guess it's a tablet bundle of the Wii if you don't know? The branding was a colossal failure. Look at a Switch box and a 3DS box though. You'd have to be amazingly inattentive to confuse the two even if you don't know what you're buying. Plus WiiU was shown with Wiimotes everywhere....if it's the same controller, it's the same system, right? Switch/3DS have their own "built in" controllers (from a packaging perspective.) I don't think the confusion will repeat there.
Then again I said in aother post, on launch day after preordering online, I walked into my local GameStop just for fun of soaking in the launch day air. No window signs for Switch (indoor signage though.) Everyone in there was there to order a Switch (good sign, it's a backwater Gamestop, not the big mall locations that aren't that far away, and they said they had very few slots left to preorder. A well dressed middle age man walks in and asks "I'd like to preorder one of those new Wiis". Nintendo = Wii in many minds apparently still, so it could be a bit of an issue. Though 1, 2, Switch may have contributed to that perception.
@audiobrainiac for web browser it has not been shown off, or conformed for launch day so it would be possibility not to have one at start, there could be a chance that system update to include it on day one.
@subpopz They're getting played like a Stradivarius.
@Frosty_09 i was talking about the Wii U.
@impurekind tell Nintendo that
@NEStalgia I don't disagree with you overall either and what you wrote about the different branding of the 3DS and Switch makes a lot of sense, hopefully that prevents any confusion.
I just hope a price-cut 3DS won't lure too many customers away from the Switch (despite my big disappointment with the Switch, somehow I don't want it to actually fail), because in the end, I think pricing is always the most important aspect for the uninformed buyer. Unless you already know what the devices offer and what you want, of course.
Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with keeping the 3DS as a budget alternative, since it does look like a budget device in comparison to the switch (housing, display size, display resolution, button/stick size). They could in fact market it that way. My only real concern was that it might cannibalize Switch sales.
At least they got the branding right - although your Gamestop anecdote immediately makes me think otherwise. As you already pointed out, some people might actually think Wii = Nintendo. In retrospect, the Wii's success has been a blessing and a curse for Nintendo.
Nintendo's idea of keeping the Wii brand wasn't so bad in principal, they thought 'hey, we built up a brand that is successful and recognizable, let's use that'. After all, the others are doing the same thing. But maybe Nintendo should've gone with Wii -> Wii 2 -> Wii 3 to make it perfectly clear (+ a lot more advertisement).
Maybe that way even the packaging and the controllers wouldn't have caused confusion. I mean, even the controllers of all the Playstations and Xboxes look pretty similar on the surface, still no one confuses the PS4 with the PS3 etc. I might be wrong, but I think it comes down to marketing/advertisement. Or maybe just the name, who knows.
@NEStalgia,
I call it lowtech because it should have been ps4/xboxone powerlevel, or more!
@XCWarrior No, not a new system, a peripheral that's basically a clamshell shell, that you attach the Switch on to. With the bottom half for external battery and buttons/sticks.
First off I am slightly underwhelmed by the "performance specs" price mark, and that I cannot get it bundled with a 128/256gb sd card (N could have made life a little cheaper sourcing in bulk) but hey!
What I think is effectively we have yet another half way house from Nintendo, a console that sits somewhere in between generations in terms of power etc...
What annoys me is that Nintendo do not get credit for the innovation in their design, and I do not mean the gimmicks, I mean, the Switch is basically a dinky little device which is more powerful than the Wii U, 360 or PS3, how amazing is that, imagine PS3 games in the palm of you hand, anywhere any time!!!! not only that it can run current gen titles, so it may not be as underpowered as some are alleging.
This for me is something which Nintendo never get the credit for, I have all the major consoles from the last 3 and current gens, the Nintendo consoles are much smaller, quieter and run more cool, they hardly ever have the hardware issues that Microsoft and Sony consoles have.... rings of death, lights of doom etc...
And the Wii U still rocks, I am still playing a massive PS3 back catalogue, and TBH the improvement gained on XBONE and PS4 titles are hardly earth-shattering in terms of graphics and/or gameplay over the last gen, it is like going from 1080 to 4k, meh.... like my eyes give a crap after 5 minutes
The Switch snap I see as a hybrid system seeing as you can play it at home and on-the-go. This is going to be awesome, I bet!
My pre order just confirmed that switch comes bundled with 1-2 switch and zelda breath of the wild!
@Tyranexx For the most part I agree. I will definitely be playing Zelda for WiiU though.It was designed for WiiU, regardless Nintendo's attempt to butcher the controls for profit. (Switch)
@NEStalgia "just because Nintendo never dropped the WiiU's price"
Don't forget the 3DS XL, its been $199 since launch as well, 4 1/2 years ago. They did upgrade it to "New", but that has now been $199 since launch as well. And when you just stick the word "New" in front of a title, well to most people that's going to look like the same device at the same price, not a new device. "New and Improved" is a time honored marketing ploy.
And th e3Ds had that one price drop 4 months after launch, $249 to $169, bu tnone announced since, again just "New". So it isn't just the Wii U they've kept high, it' sth eWii U, 3DS and 3DS XL. They have lowered the 2DS several times - $129, $99, $79 - so they are familiar w/ the concept, they just choose not to employ it.
But I don't think you can say for sure they will drop the price of the Switch by the holidays any more than I can say for sure they won't, we have to wait and see. But I still don't think they will, they'll just bundle in a game. I would think they'd drop the dock and sell it cheaper in Japan, but it's already cheap enough w/ the dock there compared to the west, $299 vs $262, and Spaltoon 2 will sell the console this summer at that price. 29,800 Yen, Nintendo really wanted to keep it under 30,000 there regardless of currency exchange rates.
@shani Branding I think is so huge this time. It's a dead horse by now (hopefully not Epona), but the WiiU name....every fan in the west knew that was trouble. Kimishima, who was running NoA at the time, knew it was trouble. But NCL was blissfully unaware of the trouble. It occurred to me around the time of SF:0 that it was a Japan thing and Nintendo being in their Japan bubble. In Kanji, adding a character - ANY character, connotates a progression. While in the west we look for a numeric increase to show it's a sequel, in Japanese, the addition of the character symbolizes a progression and transformation of the original. So for someone thinking about it with a Japanese language mindset without a somewhat "native" understanding of Western thinking (that Kimishima has, having lived in the US for many years even before he was at Nintendo) the name "WiiU" clearly denoted a succession because a new character was added. Nintendo's fault for not understanding their markets, but that of course is their normal behavior.
The other problem was Wii was a Gilette razors & blades sales model. It had an endless parade of "you need this" accessories. Fit Board, Wii Wheel, tennis rackets, the changeover to the new + controller. So adding a new tablet controller as the new "must have accessory" just made sense to the casual observer that's not studying console releases. It was a Wii product, with the new accessory, it says Wii, it still has the gray/white (but now also with teal) coloring, all the same marketing messaging. Must be a new addon you need for the newer games. Since the not so savvy consumer was the target base for Wii, it was certain to be seen that way. IMO NOT selling the base unit in white would have segmented it as well.
So starting with an all new name, all new coloring, all new packaging, all new visual design, MOST consumers shouldn't easily confuse it with Wii or 3DS. Some will. They intentionally kept the Nintendo name away from Wii as much as they could. That will help. Yeah, there are going to be a a market segment like that guy who thinks of it as a new "Wii", and the Joycon presentation for 1,2,Switch will fuel that. On the other hand, the guy was in a GameStop pre-ordering a system the day after the all-Japanese announcement presentation on a January Thursday at midnight that only nerd-culture was watching. So it's safe to assume he's either a Nintendo uber fan, but still thinks of the brand as Wii, or is buying for someone else, namely his kids and is an uninformed bystander to someone else that is a Nintendo uber fan That confusion WILL be a problem for Nintendo going forward, but it might become one of those "kids vs parents" confusions more than a general market confusion.
I think Nintendo's thinking, and it's probably good thinking is: Price cut on 3DS, budget entry model, makes it appealing to people who are all about cheap and don't go all out on consoles. I.E. 3DS has been out for, what, 6 years at launch with a massive library in 4 shapes and sizes. Who, at this point, that wants a 3DS hasn't already bought one or more 3DSs? The answer would be people who can't afford/justify it. If those people didn't pay $250 or so on a 3DS in the past several years, there's no way they're buying a Switch at $300 in the next few. The console is old and fading out and has a huge library, but will have little to no new content or status appeal while Switch inherits all that. So it gets the people who stay a gen behind for cost reasons to 3DS, and the bleeding edge crowd to Switch. Makes sense. That same group might buy Switch when it's $175 after the PSwitch comes out (WiiU, PSwitch...Mario 3...couldn't resist.... )
But, yeah, the fear it could cannibalize Switch is valid to a degree. But timing is important. Everybody that was willing to pay full price for a console has already had a 3DS for years, and the ones that haven't aren't likely Switch customers. While 3DS cannibalized WiiU because they foolishly released the two consoles back to back. It became "which new Nintendo should I buy?" rather than "should I buy the new Nintendo?"
I think with the WiiU naming, the other aspect, even Wii2 (Wii Too?) would really have not performed better. It was a mismatch of mareting and a seeming clueless cash grab without evaluating that from Nintendo. We all know the primary Wii audience. It was people into fitness fads, kids, soccer moms, geriatrics, the occasional home entertainer. It was not gamers. And we all know that audience capsized as early as 2010 and moved onto other things. Nintendo knew that at that point too. So they intentionally aimed the WiiU as a return to being a gamer's console. The launch with COD, Mass Effect, Batman (since when did Batman become 'mature'??), Assassin's Creed, ZombiU....Rayman, MH, and Lego City not far behind. tons of M rated games, not much on the party front short of Nintendo Land. Cool, Nintendo returns focus to gamers after the Wii. But then they continue the Wii brand, and even make the base console in Wii white. After it was established that the Nintendo brand is for gamers and the Wii brand is for mass market entertainment, who sells a console targeted at gamers and brand it with your mass market brand? In so doing they managed to also destroy nearly all the brand value the Wii brand held.
A good comparison would be to consider a company like Unilever. Among the hundreds of brands they own, they include Vaseline petroleum jelly products, and Hellmans mayonnaise and Popsicle brand frozen confections. Imagine if they decided to sell frozen confections under the Vaseline brand. Not many would want to eat a nice cold Vaselinepop, and people would think twice about rubbing some Popsicle on their house keys or coating their paper cut with some Hellmans.
This was the "WiiU" as a gaming console. And Wii as a brand after the failed gaming console became a symbol of unpopularity.
@Henmii I figured you meant that, but that's this odd point of confusion people often make when confusing those concepts. More powerful (or higher performance) hardware is not really more high tech. The Switch is considerably higher tech than the PS4. It's mobile tech, the ability to shrink size, heat generation, power requirements, responsiveness, weight, etc. etc. that is where the bleeding edge of tech lies and the great strides are being made. Throwing "powerful" full-size hardware without much concern to power consumption or heat dissipation is actually pretty low tech. It's just not advancing much and has mostly plateaued. Every few years they throw some better performance out there but overall, the price/size/weight/performance/power/heat in the large chip market has really hit stagnation and commodity pricing. Mobile tech is advancing continuously, and getting ever smaller and drawing less power. When the WiiU launched the Switch was barely physicaly possible, but nowhere close to being able to be usefully priced as anything but a premium toy for the wealthy. 4 Years later it's almost commodity priced. PS4 is just another low-end PC in a (kinda?) pretty box.
I'm not knocking PS4 in a Nintendo fanboy sense. I have my PS4, I love my PS4, though I don't seem to use it nearly as much as my 3DS/WiiU combo. But it is what it is, a fairly low end PC in a pretty small box that spins loud, throws a lot of heat, guzzles electricity fairly liberally and uses bulky, heavy, off the shelf hardware. It's no technical marvel, just a utilitarian device. PS4 Pro is no different, just updated to the current stagnated state of the same general tier of hardware.
Switch on the other hand packs everything and the kitchen sink, with relatively state of the art mobile graphics (even if it's a stock X1, a 2 year old chip, there aren't really that many X1s out there either, and we already know it's heavily custom so it's not really a stock X1.) plus gyros, plus removable controllers (that's two transmitters, two rumble packs, etc.) a 6" HD screen, Li-ION battery, speakers, etc. all in this tiny little slate.
In the 1990's during Intel's MHz war "more power" was synonymous with higher tech. These days "smaller and lighter than ever, fully portable, and with power not too far from the full size power guzzlers" is where the frontier of tech lies. It's all about miniaturization. (and generally, the smaller the more expensive.)
Note that if you walk into, say, Best Buy, you won't see many PC towers at all anymore. You see endless rows of laptops. Because despite the performance penalty, mobile tech is now so close to wired tech that the relative performance difference is, to most consumers, not worth sacrificing the convenience.
Switch appears to be more powerful than WiiU, and slightly less power than a PS4/XBO. While being a tiny little thing that runs on a battery. That's pretty high tech!
@rjejr 3DS has been selling quite well after the initial price drop. You don't cut the price on a product that's selling well, you cut price on a product that won't sell until it becomes a steady seller. The whole point of "it needs a price cut" is "at the current price, its sales are too low to sustain the business and the product will fail" as happened to WIiU and launch 3DS. The call was to cut the price to spur consumer interest where they had priced it out of their market. Once it started selling, of course they weren't going to drop the price. People seem to be confusing "cut the price so it gains a market" with "cut the price because it's too pricey for me and I want ot to be fair and generous and I believe in rainbow unicorns." If Switch sells very well at $299 it will be $299 forever and ever (and they'll launch their next console at $349 to see if it sticks.) If it falters and sputters at $299 then we can hope they planned into the pricing a scheduled price cut once the initial sales drop. The 2DS was pretty much built as a Pokemon Player. They kept dropping the price point to drive the 2DS down to closer and closer to toy commodity levels main to sell more Pokemon (and it worked.) But that was 2DS doing what 2DS was meant to do.
But no, no one would say for sure (not even Kimishima in the board room) whether there WILL be a price drop at the holidays. That will depend on sales. Either sales are good and there's no price drop, or sales are not good, and they are either prepared to drop the price as a built in strategy, or they did not plan for that (or mfr costs won't allow for it again) and they can't. But like you say, game bundles sell systems. BotW would be a top tier bundle. Pick up the Switch and Mario, get Zelda....boom, a Christmas list topper everywhere. Of course they'll bundle 1, 2, Switch instead. Who knows, Milk might be a hit They could also do a promo, buy a Switch and 2 games, get 1 game free or such.
Interesting about the Japan pricing. That actually DOES make me think they've planned the possibility of a price cut here if it doesn't sell. Here they're selling to the console crowd, there they're selling to the 3DS crowd. Different price expectations. Might be why they keep stupidly saying "home console" in the marketing materials here. Could also be because the west just doesn't think highly of handhelds (though 3DS sales suggest otherwise.)
@NEStalgia "Might be why they keep stupidly saying "home console" "
Oh, I just wrote a long comment about Ntinedo calling it a "home console", I'll get you the link.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/01/video_heres_the_switch_touchscreen_that_nintendo_apparently_doesnt_want_you_to_know_about
Post #118 It's so long I'm not going to cut and paste the whole thing, but here's the important paragragh.
The biggest con, con not scam, Nintneod has going on is the idea that the Switch is a portable w/ TV out. It isn't. They keep saying it's a home console, but everyody keeps arguing for them it's a portbale w/o TV out, when it isn't. Nntnedo is smart to say it's a home console, b/c it's $299 and a replacment for the Wii U, and not say it's a portbale w/ TV out, b/c it isn't. But they have everybody else saying that for them. It's great, they don't have to say a word while everybody spreads what is basically a promotional lie for them. The Switch is no more a portable w/ TV out than the Gameboy Player played Gameboy games on the Tv. It didn't, it was an accessory for the Gamecube. And the Dock is an accessory for the Switch, which is a portable, but it doesn't do TV out b/c you need the dock to get TV out. A dock which they are selling separtly as an accessory, but they are also putting it in the Switch box, where it doesn't need to be. The fact that they are selling the dock separlty is proof in and of itself it's an accessory, meaning it isn't necessary.
@rjejr I'll reply to this one (using responses to the longer post in the other thread) since the topic is actually more related to this article.
In a lot of ways I agree with what you're saying, though I think there's so much in the semantics we can all get caught up on. What's a tablet? Well it's a thin slate with a screen and embedded computer. Ok it's a tablet. What's a handheld? It's the above with built in controller buttons. Even my Game Boy is a 'tablet" albeit a huge, heavy one without a color touch screen spanning the entire body. So what's a home console? A hardwired computer for playing games on the TV.
So if we look at the switch, which is it? It's a thin slate with a screen and embedded computer with build in controls (that can be detached as separate radio controls) and a dock in the box for charging and display out.
I still say the item that it's least like is a home console. They're marketing it that way for image reasons (WiiU), maybe pricing reasons (market expectations), maybe not to cannibalize 3DS. Or maybe because they're running clueless like always.
I think your argument is primarily that it's just a handheld full stop. Welll actually you're saying tablet, but the only real difference between a tablet and handheld is the size and built in controls. It's smaller than most tablets, somewhere between tablet and phablet, and has built in (but removable) controls, so it's more of a handheld using modern miniaturized computer tech commonly found in tablets.) If we can agree that it's really a handheld based on those criteria, not a tablet (also no Google Play or Apple App Store or Windows Store which are kind of tablet criterion too) then I think we can really zero in. It's a handheld, without a built in TV out, therefore it's just a handheld (an absurdly powerful handheld.)
HOWEVER, where it might be worth disagreeing is the current SKUs. The physical Switch base unit may indeed be a handheld. And it's absolutely probably they'll later sell a SKU as a handheld only. But at the moment "Switch" means the 2 SKUs that come with a dock and gray or r/b joycons. While it's not located on the battery powered part, the TV out is an intrinsic part of the "Switch console" in the box for all available SKUs. I've not been part of the group saying "it's a handheld with tv out", I'm the one that posted the big text wall about how it's really about the home console being obsolete now that the handhelds have almost the same power. I.E. it's not a 'hybrid" so much as an idea that handhelds can now replace the archaic consoles. But the fundamental start we're both making is "yes, it's a handheld". Debating the semantics of "with TV out" confuses the matter. If the part you hold in your hand has no TV out, yet you can't actually buy it without the TV out part, and more importantly, it operates physically differently on the dock (fan kicks in.)
Maybe the best way to summarize our two views is: You view the dock as a forced pack in to a handheld that lets them cynically pretend it's a console by making the optional TV out a stock feature.
I see the dock as a statement that the home console is obsolete, at least from Nintendo's view, the handheld does the same job, and with a little hunk of plastic can do exactly what your console does, with all the same convenience and even smaller footprint while not giving up it's handheld creds.
Granted its a $90 hunk of plastic, but I really doubt that price will hold. I doubt they made very many more docks than console bodies, so they have precious few spares to sell off to the small group that wants a second dock for another room, so they do it at high premium. And that's a product purely for western markets with large houses. Who in Japan has 2 TVs in different rooms?
It's interesting that so many people can view it so differently. At it's core the notion is, "how can we create a console with one game library, that can work for Japanese mobile fans and Western console fans." This is the most obvious result. And it's a good one. But so many think it's "a weak console with a pointless battery", other's think it's a "handheld that you can use as a console" while others think it's too big as a handheld, and you think it's just a handheld and the TV out is just marketing with the pack-in.
In a way you're right. No reason they couldn't have sold the machine by itself, the dock as an accessory, etc. Japan would have loved that! But in the west, how many people would think "who would buy a new Nintendo handheld? That's for kids!" Bundling the dock lets them message it to a that big group that seems "consoles are for adults" that they couldn't if they let the messaging, in any way, be "it's a new Game Boy" I don't think "it's a home console" is the right messaging either, but I'm starting to see some of where they could think, sideways, that's the way to do it. Maybe avoiding terms like "handheld, tablet, home console" all together for "portable console" or "mobile gaming station" or something corny like that would have been more clear and less polarizing. Invent a new category than tailor existing ones to different market segments.
@NEStalgia Wow, I didn't know that a progression is marked like that in Kanji (I'm just starting to learn/figure out Japanese)! If you put it like that, it becomes obvious why they named it Wii U (and why that never worked in the west).
Your argument about the Wii's wide range of accessories also makes sense, and right from the start I was against the Wii U being sold in white (and with only 8GB btw), that wasn't a good idea either.
Actually, when I read your Gamestop anecdote, I immediately thought that he must've been a parent buying it for his kids. Of course I could be wrong, but based on him being middle-aged and calling it a 'Wii', it just made sense.
Your other point about the 3DS is also quite convincing. I can only think of two reasons why anyone who wants a 3DS doesn't have one already:
a) they couldn't afford/justify it (like me, I hesited for years, then bought one and sold it again because I just rarely used it) or
b) they don't know the 3DS exists.
I'm serious about that; the 3DS might be more successful than the Wii U, but it's still a niche device (at least here). If you ask random people about all the consoles and handhelds, some may know the 3DS, but that brand is far from being widely recognized like the Playstation or Xbox brand, for example. And that's just because it's not that omnipresent (advertisement); because apart from Nintendo fans, nobody talks about it.
I've been a critic of Nintendo's marketing for years, because of insufficient efforts but also because of some questionable decisions like the naming. Just to be clear, I didn't mean that the name "Wii 2" would've eradicated all those shortcomings, it just would've been clearer to western audiences. Still, without heavy changes in their marketing strategy, it would've failed.
And while you're right about the primary Wii audience, I resent the notion that it was purely a casual console (not that you explicitly said that, but many do say that up until today). It still had a lot of great games for core gamers. But there were just sooo many casual games (which could still be a lot of fun, even for a core gamer). During that time, I was living in a student dorm and playing Wii Sports etc in my room was quite a popular activity - up to the point where it got boring for me and I just let the others play Wii Gold, for example. So of course it's absolutely true that the Wii drew interest from a lot of casuals.
But all those intensive core games that demand more time and dedication I played either alone or with friends who were core gamers themselves. And those games were great!
I just find it sad that in retrospect, nobody seems to remember them anymore - the only thing that will stay in our collective memory, in gaming history, is that the Wii introduced motion controls and drew in a lot of casual gamers. Both notions are true, but they don't paint the whole picture in my opinion.
And you're absolutely right, the Wii U was (almost) a complete reverse, not only because of the games but also because using two screens is just more demanding and better suited to core gamers. It's benefits aren't immediately clear to casual or otherwise non-tech-savvy gamers either.
I was tempted to suggest that maybe they should've marketed Wii and Wii U next to each other, one aimed at core and one at casual gamers (of course with different names). But that probably wouldn't have worked either.
We might be off-topic, but this is a very interesting exchange of opinions! And btw, your P-Switch wordplay is hilarious.
It's both. Form factor for this is a huge selling point for me, and Nintendo got it right on this one.
Nintendo all ready made a new handheld it’s called the Switch Lite so I think the 3DS is on its way out with in the next year or so.
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