Video: Here's The Switch Touchscreen That Nintendo Apparently Doesn't Want You To Know About

Looks awesome and fluid. Love it.

On a side note, I wish the Switch version of Skylanders came with different figures. I would get the game again but I don't want to double dip in figures

Couldn't you use the AR pointer (or whatever it's called) in the bottom of the joycon to simulate touchscreen on the tv?

If touchscreen has advanced haptic feedback it would open the door for lots of touchy/feely experiences in games. Though I'm still having trouble seeing that implemented beyond just as a gimmick.

Unit looks lovely though, and seeing BotW run on it is kinda make me have second thoughts about cancelling my pre-order...

The touchscreen looks great & is something that would be used primarily in tablet mode, if Nintendo got any message from the Wii U, it was probably not that a Gamepad sold consoles.

However as @MrGawain has mentioned, the motion controller/pointer can simulate touch controls, much like the Wii did when playing the Wii version of Trauma Center... in fact you could do more as you able to simulate scissors with the buttons.

I don't see this as a major issue.. the Switch working as a Gamepad on the TV would simply open up MORE talk of the Switch being a buffed up Wii U, something that couldn't be further from the case.

I don't understand why Nintendo seem to be hiding the touchscreen

I feel like the don't want to market it as "yet another touchscreen" system, aka moving as far away from the Wii U as possible so they're focusing on literally every other aspect

They've been hiding certain facts to avoid comparisons with the Wii U and scaring people away. But let's face it, that's what it is, an evolution of what went before and so we have Wii U 1.5. Right down to the same stingy 32 GB of on board storage.

The touchscreen part tells me that Nintendo should be encouraging every mobile developer out there to port their games to the system asap, probably as cheap-*ss eShop downloads. It's just one more way to give all Switch owners a larger library of titles to play—and Switch needs more games.

And, let's be fair to mobile for a second, there are some genuinely awesome little mobile games out there that would be ideally suited to Switch: Titles such as Angry Birds, Cut the Rope, World of Goo, Tiny Wings, Threes, Lara Croft Go, Monument Valley, Peggle, Papers Please, Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft, etc.

Also, Nintendo needs to port as many DS and 3DS touch-centric games to the Switch asap too (the ones that make most sense and work best with finger touch). Shame Nintendo never saw fit to add stylus support to the system though, as that would have been ideal for BC with many of the classic DS and 3DS games.

There's so much opportunity and potential in the Switch—will Nintendo allow it to be realised?

I wonder if I got a phone call straightly from Switch console.
Oh, wait... Incoming call...
Beep... Beep.... Beep....
Hello ? Who is this ?
Don't interrupt my playing time !

They probably didn't mention the touchscreen because of its limited functionality... you can only use it while undocked.
It's possible that the IR camera in the right Joy-Con could double as a pointer, especially if there are IR LEDs in the top edge of the Switch's screen (essentially making it function like a sensor bar) as some of us suspect... but I expect they are trying to avoid making it seem too similar to the Wii/Wii U.

I figured. I'm guessing there are more features we won't know about until later as well. They might even have some secret features disabled until they feel its time to unlock it. (Like when they finally enabled amiibo functionality on Wii U.)

@DragonEleven There is pretty much no chance of being able to use the right Joy-Con's camera for Wii-like pointing functionality from what I've seen and read. I think the best you will be able to do is use the motion controls on the thing to mimic a rough air pointer like the kind found on Google Daydream VR controller for example.

Also, I personally would have designed the system so it could be played using the touchscreen in both portable mode and home console mode—basically, you wouldn't have had to stick it in a dock in home console mode—and then it would have been utterly perfect for digital backwards compatibility with all the amazing DS, 3DS, and Wii U games out there (aside from the lack of precision you get from a stylus of course, but I personally would have included that too).

You all know my general idea by now:

http://www.inceptional.com/2015/06/26/heres-the-gist-of-my-idea-for-nintendos-nx/

Hopefully Nintendo can somehow achieve as close as possible a proximation for controlling all those DS, 3DS and Wii U BC games, which it had better have on Switch's Virtual Console service, or it's an utterly huge missed opportunity.

Hmmm, wondering if Etrian Odyssey on Switch would be possible with just a split screen...

One size fits all nice, I woukd ask why nintendo aren't selling this more but then realised it's not time yet. I now feel I understand nintendo's marketing approach (best make this quick as There's some guys here with a jacket with a distinct lack of arm holes) this launch is aimed at selling to us staunch nintendites, with a small stock supply and meager launch lineup.

Then with us out of the way They're going to go all out with the marketing push, after all we're going to buy no matter what the specs and functionality so why bother, better to hold off till after the launch when stock is better that way when Mrs More goes out to get one for little Johnny she can actually get one, there is no point pushing a product now when supply is low and risk loosing sales to rival tablet. No as soon as this launch is out of the way thats when we'll know everything plus the good word of mouth from early adopters is something else they're banking on.

Paraphrasing but isn't "taking a piece from every [Nintendo] console and handheld" a bit self-explanatory? They're most likely not trying to confuse potential buyers of the Switch's main selling point: play however you want, even on the go.

The quote I paraphrased came directly from the presentation.

@impurekind What makes you think there's no chance?
The Wiimote's pointer used an IR camera in the Wiimote itself to track to two IR LEDs in the sensor bar.
There's no reason why the Joy-Con's IR camera could be used in the same way.
And we keep seeing the docked Switch console sat directly under the centre of a TV screen... just like the sensor bar, and with the top edge of the Switch protruding from the dock they could easily have included a couple of IR LEDs in the top of the screen.

big thing here is its a much higher quality screen than they've used before. Capacitive is where it's at.

@Anti-Matter what are you talking about

Unless they still haven't announced that the system will actually play iOS or android games then I don't see why they should mention it. Unfortunately it will just be an option for devs to use if they want.

The reason Nintendo didn't emphasize it is the same reason they insist on calling Switch a home console, and the reason they insist 3DS has a long life ahead of it; on the off chance Switch fails, they want to leave to option open to launch a new handheld system (which would likely heavily focus on touch controls).

That touchscreen looks amazing!! I am Day 1 for sure!!!

Yeah, I think it is wise. Because to an oblivious parent, if they hadn't focused on the Joy-con, it might look more like just an expensive tablet. I think the info delivery has been spot on.

It all does seem exeedingly slick.

I imagine they are also trying to distance it from Wii u

Remember, everyone thought Wii U was just an add-on Wii controller "with touch!" So perhaps they want to make sure it's not just seen as an upgraded Wii U. of course, so far fewer even know about the Wii u that it's probably a low risk.

37 days to go...

The touchscreen was revealed. In the presentation when they say what the Switch got from other consoles they said "Nintendo DS added a touchscreen".

"Nintendo risks missing a key point - the Switch is not only a home console, but can also serve as a viable replacement for your mobile phone or tablet device."
It won't even have Netflix (or other non-game apps) on launch and a browser has yet to be confirmed, if they tried to serve as viable replacement, they would just be laughed at.

@UK-Nintendo
Oh, I just wonder if Switch have function like smartphone, dialing phone numbers / receive calls. Oopsie.... I think it's so absurd. XD

Seems weird Ninty shying away from the touch screen.

Damien, may you get the prodding you so thoroughly deserve. 😆

I'll say my opinion again! If the Switch does sell really well, they'll use it to slowly fade out the 3DS...I'm still thinking that's why they're not talking about the touch screen on it. I know the 3DS is still doing well, but I'm pretty sure that if the switch does just as well, we'll see the 3DS fade out by the end of 2018 or before...at least nintendo will and just leave it open to indie developers and 3rd parties (which are rare on that system even).

@Anti-Matter I hope not for the phone calls...it was a mess when they added that on the PSP!

"but can also serve as a viable replacement for your mobile phone or tablet device."

Uh, thanks but no thanks, personally. I'm not ill at ease about battery life, but having to share it between resource-demanding games, multimedia playback, net surfing etc is one of the biggest reasons I don't consider smart devices to be dedicated and efficient gaming devices (I barely even consider PCs as ones, although battery life is obviously not an issue here except for laptops). I've never even listened to music on my PSP. A lot more convenient to have multiple tech on me, using them separately and simultaneously if needed.

But considering that the AndriOS generation can't seem to tell Switch from a tablet as it is, perhaps Nintendo just doesn't want to fuel their impressions needlessly. XD And even for others, touch screen is something taken for granted nowadays - it's not DS launch when touchscreens were still a rarity even in smartphones. IMHO advertising joycons and their perks (including portable local multiplayer on the same screen - now THAT'S a novelty as far as I'm informed, at least outside turn-based rivalry modes like in Peggle Dual Shot) would be more interesting.

That all said, Nintendo did technically imply the touchscreen when listing the legacy of past platforms it combined, so there's that.

I will never see the Switch as a home console first. They really need to stop with that marketing because I don't think it resonates with anyone. It might even alienate the Japanese audience, since they're probably (like me) all buying it for the "mega-powerful handheld" side of things.

On the contrary, Nintendo is confusing customers by marketing the NS as a home console, now that we've seen what it's strengths and weaknesses are. They should be marketing it as a versatile tablet with almost as much strength and greater OS and loading speed than current home consoles, which can also be given a boost when played at home. (So basically, beating Sony at their own portable console game.) They should also be showing off the touchscreen for those who can't/won't carry the JoyCons around, and just want it to function as close to a tablet as possible. (Also, those JoyCons make the NS an eye catcher for being stolen...)

Unfortunately, it seems Nintendo has not yet replaced the marketing people who screwed them over with the Wii U. If they don't change soon... Prepare to suffer greatly outside of Japan. Japan will sell gangbusters guaranteed, but if Nintendo is going this route, then they need to fit in smoothly with the mobile/tablet trend outside of Japan. Which means they should be showing off the touchscreen first and foremost for "light gaming," with the JoyCons being intended for motion controlled and "core gaming," but instead, they're trying to downplay the touchscreen... Absolutely foolish.

@GrayMoon You can't fight that with arguments about a binary subject like portable vs. home so it doesn't grab headlines or ignite comment sections. I 100% agree with you, though. That message is lost in the internet miasma.

In a previous thread about handheld vs. home console I brought up the play anywhere plugged-in or not wireless local multiplayer 2, 3, 4 player games 8 with just a couple Switch devices. A party video gaming device that has almost zero set up and can be propped up anywhere with no looking for a free TV. And yes, the traditional uses as well. This combination is unique.

Evidence here of people considering it with a simple video of someone just playing Breath of the Wild. I had a similar experience much earlier. It's impressive and because it's so portable many, many skeptics are going to be able to try one out in person.

Great potential this time, and I think a slow roll out through the year could actually be very healthy for that reason.

Anyway, I'll be at launch with bells on.

But the Switch is obviously a portable first, according to Facebook and a bunch of people here.

@DragonEleven Which was also the case with Wii U, so all things considered the IR lights seem more likely than not.

I think they are being quiet on the touchscreen so not to harm 3ds sales. No matter what they say if switch is successful the ds brand will die down next year. A bit like when they said ds wasn't replacing the GameBoy Advance.

However they will never sell switch without the dock as otherwise it wouldn't be the Switch.

@DragonEleven The trouble with the docked Switch functioning as a sensor bar is that it is pretty big and so I (like, I would guess, many other people) would not be able to sit it under/over the TV.

@chardir it's not that they are hiding it, but touchscreen isn't that big of a deal anymore. All tablets have it, even the crappest budget ones have touchscreen so I guess it's not the selling point it once was. People want games!

They don't talk about it because it'd show the Switch for what it is: a Wii U, except worse.

@dazzleshell I think the ds line will carry on after 3ds is finished. Without 3D and slightly better specs but at a more budget friendly price! Pocket gaming is still sooo cool!

@BionicDodo I don't think it's as big as you seem to think.
Estimates bring it to only around 12cm high even when docked... most TV screens are designed to sit around this high off a surface in order to allow space for things like sound bars, so unless you have your TV screen essentially resting on a surface without a stand, then there shouldn't be any problem.

But regardless, they don't seem to be using this feature in any of the current games shown, so it's unlikely that it will be needed straight away, and they may release a separate sensor bar if it is needed... and you can already get wireless or USB sensor bars for the Wii/Wii U that will likely work as well.

@DragonEleven I have a TV mounted on a wall and a projector which projects onto a wall just above a sofa. In neither situation would I be able to stand the Switch underneath unfortunately.

That touch screen is very effective..similar to today's ipads.

The touch screen was an expected feature. It would have been shocking if it did not have it on a mobile entertainment device with a 6" screen in 2017. OTOH it's also a problematic feature. The fact that the touch screen can not be used in any way when docked in home console mode undercuts the entire premise of the Switch, that it is the same no matter if you play it at home or on the go. Having a feature split by mode will confuse the market. Can you make a game that utilizes the touch screen? If you do, how will people play it at home? And is two different experiences based on mode at all consistent with Nintendo's claims about Switch in its marketing? Ultimately it may end up being used for UI navigation. OR identifying some games as "portable only" which is probably the last place Nintendo wants to go.

Perhaps they'll sell a Switch Home Digitizer for touch screen use for only $99.99.

As a dedicated handheld, the touch screen is perfect. It fits the "Vita Done Right!" motif a lot of us have been discussing here. But for its home console mode, it introduces many messaging problems and a possible lack of consistency in the library. They're doing well by ignoring it.

Also, a sensor bar is just silly. My dock is not going to be "in the center under the TV", that's not where I dock my portables. Plus the IR bar is 10 year old tech. The original Wiimote lacked the rotational gyros required to have a true air mouse. The Wiimote+, 3DS, N3DS, WiiU, and Switch all have the proper rotational gyros to act as an airmouse without the need for an IR emitter. Skyward Sword was basically the tech demo for this.

@BionicDodo Have you considered installing a shelf?

"but can also serve as a viable replacement for your mobile phone or tablet device."

I'm having deja vu to the "Gamepad is a tablet kilker" article.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/07/talking_point_should_nintendo_be_promoting_the_wii_u_gamepad_as_a_tablet_killer

I guess it's only a matter of time before we get a refresh @damo ?

As somebody already said, not w/o Netflix is isn't. It could get there in a few years, seems capable enough, but it needs the apps first.

@Nik-Davies Does Gamestop still take used Skylanders? I have the same problem but I'm not sure where to sell the extras.

@dazzleshell "However they will never sell switch without the dock as otherwise it wouldn't be the Switch."

They sold the 2DS to play 3DS games without 3D, taking away the biggest selling point of the 3DS, games in 3D.

They sold the Wii Mini without internet, AND they bundled it with Mario Kart Wii, an online game. And many people were using their Wiifor Netflix, so that was gone. And no Wiiware.

Can you name 1 Switch game that NEEDS the dock to play? I can't.

@DragonEleven Firstly, I am not going to convince the wife of that. Especially as there is a cabinet underneath but it would be too low to have a sensor bar on it. Secondly, I wouldn't trust a shelf I put up to hold the weight of a 3DS, let alone a Switch and dock! Thirdly, I generally prefer to hide these things way from the little hands that are keen to mangle all technology in my house!

Joking aside though, I doubt many people would want a console that required shelf building to use one of its features. If the dock has an input for a Wii/Wii U sensor bar then that helps, but Nintendo want to distance themselves from the Wii brand so I doubt that will happen. Maybe a USB one will be released...

If they are choosing to ignore the touch screen on promotional material because they want to simplify the message I think it's smart. Too many features to throw them all at once. If something we can count on is the impossibility of regular audience to understand new concepts. Especially online.

I'm guessing they will focus on the touch screen at a later stage. Maybe when a touch based game is announced.

I guess somewhere in there is the ability to run a Switch version of Mario Maker. Perhaps the best example of a Wii U game in it's use of the Gamepad. I think I'd prefer if a Switch version had you remove the console and use the screen to create and test play, and just play when docked. Rather than use the controller IR to build levels, which seems like it would feel too loose and imprecise. I guess the cat paws and Mario hands wouldn't be as useful, though.

At least I hope a Switch version is on the way, it would be a shame if such a unique experience for Mario fans was only on Nintendo's most underappreciated console and just put out to pasture with it. The 3DS version is fine, but missing too much to be the only one.

So a game like Mario Maker could be a possibility on Switch (where you can create courses when in handheld mode and play them on TV when docked).

@BionicDodo I doubt the vast majority of people will find themselves in such an atypical situation as you are in... you can't blame Nintendo for your own interior design choices.
If Nintendo were to include a separate sensor bar with the Switch, then that would raise the price for everyone, which wouldn't be fair for all of the people who wouldn't need it.

Nintendo does seem to be drip-feeding us information or simply omitting details and letting speculation fill in the gaps. I'm not really a fan of that. Once it launches can we expect a discussion or reflection piece on the damage/benefit of that approach?

Anyway, as many have said here, that screen looks great and I am not aware of any negative feedback on quality. Definitely a step up from the Wii U; navigating the eshop is such a pain on the gamepad.

It's really ridiculous how after the Wii U fiasco Nintendo are so scared of their own features that they just decided to not promote them anymore.
Instead of acknowledging that they failed in explaining the Wii U's features properly, they just decided to not explain the same features in the Switch.
It's like a person beeing traumatized by an accident and therefore deciding to never again enter a vehicle instead of slowly finding a way to cope with the trauma.
Acting out of fear is never a good sign...

@BiasedSonyFan
"How many video games just uses the touchscreen?"

I seriously doubt any would just use the touch screen alone like a tablet because the controllers will almost always give you a far better experience, it can even be combined with the touch screen.

I just hope ALL games can be played docked using the TV, without using the touchscreen. I am no fan of handhelds and my Switch will probably NEVER leave its dock.

@Nik-Davies Can't use just use the same figurines? I’m not well versed on the series, but aren't the figures "backwards compatible" per se? The DK and Bowser ones should at the very least work if you have those.

@TsukiDeity No. I mean I'll have two King-Pen and Golden Queen figures because they're the same as the PS4 starter pack which I've got.

@Hotfusion This opinion will immediately change once you realize you can play a console Zelda on the loo.

I doubt that. If they didn't want to i'm sure they wouldn't include the option. Sorry bout it i'm not buying

@DragonEleven Well, if you have to cling onto that fantasy then go ahead. I'm just calling it the way I see it and the way it is, and I can't be bothered detailing further why it is the way it is—it's too much effort to go into it all, especially when I can tell you're gonna take work to be convinced of something that is pretty clear to me—but it is. There's a small chance I could be wrong—I'm not God after all—but I'd put all my money on myself right now.

One thing I don't like about the Joy-Con Grip is the clear plastic. It looks cheap. Having not had my mitts on it I can't know if it feels cheap or looks strange in anyway to have clear plastic on solid. I just hope it doesn't notice too much in a home environment where there aren't lights making it more noticeable.

@Nik-Davies I'm really curious to see how Skylander figures scan into the game. The way they were shown in video suggests it will be like the 3DS in that you likely have an IR scanner that imports figure data to the game so you don't need to take figures with you on the go (which is great). But perhaps a standard portal connects to the dock for this purpose allowing new characters to be scanned only when docked. This would be great if true as you could then not need figures on the go, a first for a console version of the game. Plus the fact that this version uses the Nintendo figures Donkey Kong and Bowser is really cool.

I wasn't too interested in this game at first as it is around six months after the other console editions (which should be dropping in price on sales soon), but I will definitely have this game on my radar now.

Nintendo did mention it, but it was not focused on. As far as games' quality goes, it's up in the air per title, as devs may utilize touch in some form for portable play, while the title simultaneously has console style controls for "docked" play. Some devs may not be so hot(good/efficient) on making one, or the other play style comfortable, & efficient/functional. On the other hand, maybe not. Clever programming, decent(functional), & comfortable controls, make Switching(ba-dum-pesh) control playstyles somewhat a non-issue. Anyway, Nintendo may have learned from the DS/3DS, & especially WU how to do seamless change-on-the-fly of control styles.

Is that "Bramble Blast" I hear playing in the background of the video during the touchscreen segment?

I am a little surprised at Nintendo as well as I mentioned during when it was still called the NX that it would be a console/portable/mobile gaming console in one. I'm wondering if they are waiting until the mobile Fire Emblem and Animal Crossing come out (to accompany Pokemon Go and Super Mario Run) before they start advertising this feature? Casuals would eat this stuff up, but I digress.

@impurekind You haven't given any detail whatsoever to support your argument... you'd need to do that before you can detail it further.

@BiasedSonyFan That's the point, Nintendo's not talking about it. A lot of smaller and mobile style games could use just the touchscreen, as well as various system functions like the web browser, social media, and YouTube. Also, it wouldn't hurt to port over all of the Nintendo related mobile games... Super Mario Run, Pokémon Go, and the upcoming Fire Emblem mobile title could all work on NS with just the touchscreen, for example.

@impurekind Don't forget more ambitious mobile efforts like Infinity Blade and Chaos Rings. The Tegra series can run UE4, so we should see titles like that on the NS.

Oh yeah, what happened to your old user name?

@DragonEleven The Wii Remote also used Bluetooth. I'm not sure if the NS uses the same protocol the Wii used... A point of contention here is that both the L and R JoyCon cost $40. That pricing would be unfair unless they have the same tech onboard, meaning either both or neither could replicate the Wii's pointer function. With all the other tech in there, it remains to be seen whether they can indeed replicate Wiimote pointer functions.

The focus seems to be more on HD Rumble and the gyroscope/accelorometer. Of the demos we saw for all the various games showcased during the Treehouse live stream, none of them showed off any pointer functions. They selected options using the JoyCon physical controls, and pointed at each others' JoyCons or the general direction of the NS console to play interactive motion controlled games like 1, 2, Switch and ARMS. So the JoyCons seem more likely to be capable of replicating Upad functions, rather than Wiimote pointer functions.

I wonder if there will be a special dock for an Art game in the future that allows you to use both screens.

@Nico07 I believe it's the same as amiibo in that in scans through the NFC reader hidden under the right joy-con's analog stick.
There is no base for this version I know that.

@impurekind why is there no way the right IR pointer, which is actually an IR camera like in WiiMote, won't work as a pointer? I'd imagine the IR camera and software is now advanced to pick up the IR heat signature from the TV and boom no need for a sensor bar like Wii and WiiU.

Still thinking about what nintendo said that they was scared other companies would steal the ideas.

@rjejr You've used the 3DS/2DS argument before, but in this case that doesn't fly: 3D isn't an essential part of playing these games, since it can already be switched off on the 3DS itself, whereas the dock and what it does IS an essential part of the Switch.

First off, there's some kind of trigger inside the dock that activates the "full force" mode of the Switch, making it look better and smoother on a big screen, and second, there's the added heat duct for the then activated fan inside the switch, and a couple of other video/audio connections.

These are NOT found on the Switch itself, so without the dock, you would need two extra contraptions: one that would activate that TV mode if you connect it to the Switch, and another one that has some kind of adapter to connect the other necessary cables to.

Best case scenario, they make that into one box. It would still need some kind of stand, though because the fan needs to have enough air so you can't lay it flat on its back or something. What that would actually amount to is a dock with the front part removed so you could see the screen.

And what would the use even be? Just to have a switched on second screen during gameplay? You won't be able to use that touch screen comfortably anyways unless you're sat a cable length away from the screen, because that is what it will be connected to...

So, "Can you name 1 Switch game that NEEDS the dock to play? I can't."

Yup, ALL of them. Well, at least if you want to play them on the TV, that is...

@Nik-Davies Amiibo and Skylanders are different in their NFC so tapping on the reader doesn't work. With the Bowser and DK amiibo you have to actually rotate the figure base to allow for either type of use. So there has to be a base. If one wasn't shown at the event it is because it is like the 3DS version and figure data is stored in game. Without a base there would be no way to scan figure data into the game especially older figures, and the way Skylander figures constantly have data written to them is inherently different than amiibo that are just tap and go.

@aaronsullivan #37 Great comment. Well thought out, couldn't agree more.

@PlywoodStick Don't agree with you there for once...

The Switch isn't a tablet and it shouldn't be marketed as one. That would actually be situation Wii U 2.0 and that is not going to help Nintendo.

Nintendo REALLY needs to stick to its guns here, and if they can push hard enough in their marketing campaign, and drive the message home, then they will be right and the Switch WILL be a home console that you can take with you on the go. If they say that it is a home console, then it IS a home console, regardless of what the general public thinks, since they didn't make the damn device in the first place.They're just lazily comparing stuff and naming it for what it looks like...

Keep repeating Nintendo's statements to yourself and start believing it: The Switch is a home console you can take with you on the go, the Switch is a home console you can take with you on the go... etc. etc.

It's almost like me repeatedly telling you NOT to think about pink elephants. Guess what happens in your brain?

In the words of Lightning McQueen: "KAPOWWW!!!"

See them beasties dancing around in your head...

Agreed on marketing the OS and loading speeds, though. And add "no mandatory installs, so plug and play" to that for an even more enticing message...

As for your comment on the marketing guys:
They actually did hire two new guys last year. One former marketing executive from EA and another one, marketing manager I believe, who used to work at Yahoo, so neither of them small fry.

I believe all current steps are intentional, deliberately incremental and taken with consideration to prevent mistakes and software drought. More news is coming in and more titles are announced almost every day, like LEGO World was today, and plenty more will come in the days leading up to the release and then on to the next E3.

So, maybe a bit too careful in some areas, but better safe than sorry, and there is a LOT of potential there, and I think that more of that will be revealed soon.

@PlywoodStick Nothing, I just went with this name as a more standard name across most of the forums and websites I visit for simplicity's sake. My old account is still there too.

@DragonEleven I don't, and I can't be bothered. Let's just see . . . and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I'm willing to bet money I'm not wrong though.

@impurekind You could have just changed your name in your original account; I did so too, and it worked just fine without having to set up a second account...

@ThanosReXXX I didn't realise I could do that, but I kinda like having my old account there just in case I want to go back to it one day.

@impurekind Hm, guess that's a valid enough reason. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. There's even rules tied to it. Check account settings, where it says:

Username:
This is your identity on the website, you can change this later, but only once every 90 days.

So people that make use of this option had better choose wisely, or else you're stuck with a dumb user name for almost 3 months...

@DanteSolablood Oh my... Trauma Center on Switch could be terrifying. Imagine if it used realistic graphics, two Joy-Cons (and motion controls to simulate the touch-screen) and HD Rumble. It could be sick... just sick.

@KoopaTheGamer Oh yes! Just imagine open heart surgeory and you could feel the heart beating more the closer you get with the forceps & scalpel!

@JaxonH that's not a big thing though. Not in 2017. Hell, Nintendo got mocked in 2012 for not using capacitive.

@ThanosReXXX We know it's not really a tablet. Nintendo knows it's not really a tablet. But how many people in the general public know that? (Especially the ones who aren't tech savvy.) We're talking about the kinds of people who thought the Wii U was an add-on controller for the Wii.

The way I see it, the NS is trying to skirt the line between being both a mobile device of sorts and... a console that many can't agree on about what exactly it is. Nintendo can say it's a home console that can be taken on the go all they want, but that makes it look weak compared to it's competitors. It misses the point of what makes the NS stand out (and even in some ways outperform) it's rivals. In addition, the whole "portable console with home console amenities" thing has almost completely died out, aside from Japan. The Vita proved that. So marketing it as a portable console rivaling a home console in several ways might work on a few core gamers and Nintendo fans, but it won't light up the general public at this point.

The reasoning for marketing it as a tablet to the general public is that they often don't know any better. Considering the raw specs output and visual appearances as seen in a store, as far as general public perception is concerned, the NS barely matches up to the PS4, and it's more expensive. However, even at the somewhat inflated US$300 price point, it's still a lot cheaper than new tablets with a similar degree of gaming performance. The overall proposition is different, but it's very easy for nontechnical people to make the connection from the NS to the idea of a relatively cheap yet higher end tablet, if it is marketed as such.

Nintendo seems to once again be banking on word of mouth, having early adopters show off the NS as they take it around. That works sometimes, in the cases of phenomena, but it isn't a guarantee of long term success. I'm glad that they remembered the core gamers this time around, as the game reveals are proving, but that's not enough anymore. They made their bed with the DeNA capital alliance, now they have to sleep in it.

Market it as a fully fledged, modern, and versatile mobile device with nearly the power of a home console, and not just a portable console that sort of feels like it has home console games, not just a home console that can be taken on the go, and I bet that both the general public and core gamers will understand what it's supposed to be.

@PlywoodStick We already know that the right JoyCon has tech that the left one doesn't because it has the IR camera... that's a confirmed fact. It's possible that the left JoyCon has something else that the right doesn't, but nothing has been mentioned, so it does look unfair at the moment.
The IR camera is all that would be needed in the JoyCon to create the pointer functionality, as that is what Wiimotes use... the only other thing that would be needed would be the IR LEDs, which could easily be hidden in the top edge of the screen.

@PlywoodStick
Idk, I mean it may make it look weak to people who obsess over graphics, but to the average Joe I don't think they're going to be looking at the tessellation and lighting effects. I think the average Joe just sees it's got games and they look pretty modern, and that's about the extent of which they size it up. If you had gameplay of Zelda running on a demo kiosk, and someone had no idea what it was, in the store clerk told them this was the new Zelda for PS4 or Xbox, I seriously doubt the average Joe would question it.

It's the gamers who follow this stuff that will know it falls a little shy, but they will also know that it's a small concession made to gain portability.

While I do think the "portable console with home console amenities" is dead ATM, I don't think it was ever really alive to begin with. Don't think it was ever truly given a fair shake. Vita was a full generation to a generation and a half behind its console counterpart. It looked good and was very impressive at the time, but the graphics just weren't good enough to be considered console graphics. Just really good handheld graphics. It was also lacking buttons (no ZL and ZR, no clickable analogs) which resulted in actions being mapped to the touch screen and rear touchpad, which was beyond awkward and a gamebreaker for many. Add to that the fact it came with proprietary memory cards that were $100 for 32gb at launch, which was the most you could get without importing (they released 64gb in Japan, something average Joes aren't going to be receptive to).

It also had no way of seamlessly transitioning to the TV, which really is what defined it as a handheld. It also had no detachable controllers, which meant your only option was playing it as a handheld. The Vita TV came a day late and a dollar short, and the problems listed above such as lack of buttons resulted in some games being compatible, some not, some partially compatible... it was all just a confusing mess.

So I don't really feel that home console on the go has ever really been given a real shot. Not really. And certainly not home console on the go that also works as a home console, and is capable enough to actually pass as a current gen console.

With that said, I think the best angle here is "most powerful handheld ever created" with the added benefit of being strong enough to be a home console on your TV as well. Then again what do I know, I'm just an anonymous gamer on the Internet.

The last time Nintendo put a touch screen on a rectangular device people were comparing it to the iPad. "So, it's an iPad for the Wii?" That's right folks, think pre-E3 2012 Wii U. Will it be a good idea to showcase a feature that pretty much every device out there has? No, no it wouldn't, everyone knows what a capacitive touch screen is, no need to advertise it.

@DragonEleven Ah, here we are:

http://wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-5ghz-wifi-bluetooth/

There's a link to the FCC document proving that the NS will have Bluetooth and 5 GHz MIMO wireless band capability. The Wiimote doesn't just use IR, it also uses Bluetooth to connect to the Wii/Wii U console. (Or even to a PC through programs like WiiBrew with a Bluetooth transceiver.)

However, we still don't know if they will use the same connection standard. If they did, then a Wiimote could theoretically be synchronized to an NS console. But I don't think there's any such confirmation of that... In any case, the point stands that Nintendo still hasn't shown off Wiimote-like pointer functionality before release, while they have the chance.

The L JoyCon seems to have screenshot capturing and the Share function on it, while the R JoyCon has an IR port and an NFC reader. (However, both should have Bluetooth connectivity.) That's a rather poor matchup for pricing. In fact, it's a ripoff, and it's very consumer unfriendly. What if stores run out of R JoyCons, due to it's superior tech functionality, and only have L JoyCons remaining? What are customers to do then, and how will the non-savvy know the difference? It's a confusing disaster waiting to happen.

@PlywoodStick "In addition, the whole "portable console with home console amenities" thing"

And THAT's where it (and you) goes wrong: it's not a portable console with home console amenities, it's a HOME console with PORTABLE amenities.

Sony's efforts don't count. They couldn't make a competing handheld even if Nintendo helped them out. Great hardware, but stupid, proprietary and expensive peripherals/memory and no real discerning experience from the console counterpart. Although to be fair, that is also what the Switch is now going to offer, so scratch that one...

Now sing with me:
"The Switch is a home console you can take with you on the go, the Switch is a home console you can take with you on the go..." ad infinitum...

Nintendo: "we will brainwash you yet"...

And making the blind, clueless populace believe that they are right is actually one of the dumbest, if not THE dumbest things a marketing campaign can do, and that is strictly my professional opinion, personal sentiments set aside for a while.

Making them paint their own picture of what's what is only good if it is guided in the right direction by the ones advertising the goods, otherwise it can go in all directions and 9 out of 10 times, not in the right one.

Aside from the lack of decent marketing, allowing people (or whatever the heck it was that they did) to think that the Wii U was a tablet, or indeed a peripheral for the Wii also didn't do them a whole hell of a lot of good...

I keep advising any and all comers to go to YouTube and check out some gameplay videos of current gen games on the Tegra K1 tablet, and that is the predecessor of the Tegra X1, the custom version of which is of course in the Switch, so that will yield even better results.

I've seen that K1 tablet run the latest installments of Unreal Engine, Doom, Tomb Raider, Call of Duty, and games like Overwatch and multiple modern platformers and racers. And all without a hitch or frame drop. The only niggle is that it runs them in a slightly lower fidelity, as in 900p instead of 1080p.

Now, we already know that the Switch can do native 1080p when docked, and taking into account that any and all current gen multi-platform games need to run on the base models of the other consoles, meaning that they will never surpass that 1080p except for the PS4 Pro and Scorpio versions, means that the Switch versions will still be able to stay pretty damn close to those base model console versions...

So, I'd leave the marketing as it is, meaning the whole "it's a home console" thing, because that's really more valid and sufficient than most people seem to think, because they are close enough and even though they compete in the same market, Nintendo is once again different enough to stay in its own blue ocean and this time around, they might very well be pretty successful with it again, considering it's not only a pretty decent home console, but also the world's most powerful handheld EVER created. (hope you don't mind me borrowing that line, @JaxonH) Well, at least until now...

Maybe we ought to compare LEGO World versions once they come out on all consoles including the Switch and we'll be able to see where we'll stand then in the "console race"...

@PlywoodStick As for your Wiimote/pointer functionality discussion: I believe Reggie has already said that the Switch is definitely NOT compatible with older controllers.

And the whole "right Joy-Con can act as a pointer to replace touch screen functions on the big screen" was already rumored on NLife some time ago:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/10/report_focuses_on_nintendo_switch_touchscreen_and_ir_pointer_on_joy-con_controller

@JaxonH I think what you're conveying is going to work wonders in Japan, but not so much elsewhere. That's the crux of the matter: the idea of a "home console on the go" doesn't historically have as much appeal outside of Japan. The last console to seriously try it was the Sega Genesis, through the Sega Nomad, and only around 1 million of those were ever sold. It's just never been a hot item, most people either want a powerful home machine or a versatile portable machine, not some weird hybrid. Meanwhile, current VR devices just seem like an overpriced novelty, destined to the same fate as the past three decades' worth of efforts in the field.

Mobile devices and PC related gear are what's experiencing growth, while home and portable consoles have been in sharp decline for a few years now. Indeed, at this rate, the day will come when the console moniker as we know it becomes history. I think Iwata realized this, too... The NS is not what could be classically referred to as a "console," at least not technologically. Tech specs wise, looking at what's inside the NS, I can only call it a mobile device with console-like amenities. (As if the DeNA capital alliance didn't also push the idea further...)

For better or for worse, Nintendo made their bed. Now they have to sleep in it.

@ThanosReXXX The powerful portable console idea was just a possible route, I intended to convey that wasn't what the NS is. I think it's worth pointing out that the Tegra X1/custom is a mobile SoC, and that's the driver for the NS. It's not using x86 like the others are, it's using ARM. Techwise, it's more accurate to say it's a mobile device than to say it's a home console. I think the general public would also be more receptive to that idea than to it essentially being referred to as a portable Nintendo PS4. I'm sorry, but looking at the tech behind the NS, I just can't refer to it as anything other than a mobile device. 😭 (But it has some familiar Nintendo amenities to accompany it! 😁)

Even if we can't agree on what exactly the NS is, I think we can agree that it is an awesome piece of kit, and it's going to have a major role in determining the future of gaming as we know it. 😎

Has Nintendo announced a web browser will be available? If not I seriously doubt there will be one, a browser will almost certainly become an obvious and easily exploited security vulnerability.

@PlywoodStick
I get what you're saying, and you're not wrong, but it's important to note that all those devices sucked or had something else holding them back. Which is why I say it's never really been given a real shot, only half*** attempts and quarter*** attempts. It's hard to gauge interest in something when the only systems that remotely tried had serious shortcomings. And none of them were practical solutions.

Did people not want Genesis games on the go? Or were people simply not aware of its existence? I was a Genesis owner and obsessed with Sonic, yet couldnt keep track of all these new machines like SEGACD, 32X, Saturn, Nomad and whispers of a Neptune. Sega released so many consoles back to back even the fans didn't know which way was up, or what device was going to be supported and what wasn't. And coming off the back of the Game Gear which had abysmal battery life running on AA's.

And Vita I think I went into detail before. There's always been something else holding these efforts back. Did people really not want Vita? Or did they just not want $100 32gb proprietary memory cards and mapped touch controls? So one could logically conclude there's not a market, but they'd be allowing interference from unrelated noise to cloud the results.

Not to say you are necessarily wrong, but we just don't have good data to say either way at this point. Nomad was in a different time and Sega was having trouble selling any of its consoles thanks to releasing so many. Vita was just a powerful handheld, and as a handheld it failed (for obvious reasons). There's also definitely never been a hybrid effort. Only one or the other, but never both (certainly not seamless).

So we'll see. Question is, if Switch does succeed, does that mean people just liked the system as a console, just liked it as a handheld, or both? Maybe it doesn't really matter.

Nintendo is drip feeding us the information. Can't wait for the next meal 😀

@PlywoodStick Sorry for misunderstanding what you intended, my bad.

As for the second part, I think that will come with getting your hands on it for most people. The whole "tablet slash mobile device" thing has got to go. Mobile sounds like a phone/smart device and so does a tablet. In portable mode, it is of course a handheld, and that is a class all of its own, not related to mobile, although you yourself are mobile when you use it...

The thing is, in my mind, I'm a step further than most. The trying to force one's own idea onto the product of someone else is WAY beyond me, so if Nintendo tells me what it is, then I simply accept that and with that comes a world of good, because now I can see it as the hybrid it is intended to be: a decent home console that can compete with the base models of the other two, and the most powerful handheld ever created all in one.

That hybrid aspect is important, and therefore it should not be seen as just one or the other, and that is what Nintendo needs to advertise, and that is what people need to understand, there just aren't any other flavors just because people want to force their own label on it.

As for you personally, I think you are highly underestimating that tech, which (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is apparently a large part of how you see the Switch.

I would advise you once again to go and check out those Tegra K1 tablet videos I mentioned earlier and see how they hold up against other hardware. Or go and find Nvidia Shield videos, it REALLY isn't as weak as you think it is.

I promise you that 9 out of 10 people won't even be able to see the difference in third party games if the Switch version would be running at 900p instead of 1080p, and that is part of the beauty of both the hardware and Unreal Engine 4.

The options it has for scaling and programming trickery can even make a mobile phone version of a console game still look good, and the Tegra chipset can do so much more than that, so maybe worry a bit less and just let it wash over you and you will see that there is far more potential there than you may be seeing or thinking of at the moment.

And it is indeed an awesome piece of kit...

@JaxonH once again, you also make some really good points.

@ThanosReXXX
Well, regardless of what they try to label it as or market it as, makes no difference to me.

All I care about is how it will benefit yours truly. I sure hope they add GameCube VC, and Fire Emblem Path of Radiance. And if they can do GC they can probably do Wii also. Add Radiant Dawn, and with the new Fire Emblem releasing we'd have all 3 consoles entries on one device, and portably.

That is my dream. I think they will too cause FE is hot property now

@ThanosReXXX "essential"

I have to disagree w/ all of that. If you can tell me that you don't need 3D b/c you can turn it off, well then I can tell you that you don't need TV out b/c you can still play the Switch w/o the TV, it's the same scenario. 3DS doens't need 3D, Switch doesn't need Tv. And I'm pretty sure it can charge w/o the Dock, I'm pretty sure they've said that it can be charged w/o it, think I've read stories about that on here, charging using a cable, so if you don't need the dock for charging, and all games can be played on the touchscreen, then you don't need the dock. It isn't essential for any games, in fact it's a detriment to any game that makes use of the touch screen.

Saying the Switch needs the dock b/c it can't play games on TV w/o it means the 3DS never existed b/c you can't play games on the TV w/ that system at all.

@PlywoodStick Here, saved you the trouble of having to search for yourself:
NVIDIA Tegra K1 Mobile Gaming
NVIDIA SHIELD launch at GDC 2015: Great Games
Shield Tablet Tegra K1 Android Gameplay Frame-Rate Tests
Doom 3 BFG Edition Gameplay - Shield Tablet [Tegra K1]
Fallout 4 - Gameplay on NVIDIA SHIELD Tablet
Unreal Engine 4 'Rivalry' Tegra K1 Demo
Epic Games Josh Adams Previews Nvidia Tegra K1
6 Must-Play Console Caliber Games on SHIELD Android TV
NVIDIA SHIELD TV - GeForce Now - Tomb Raider - Streaming 1080p 60fps

As you can see, I've also added some of the X1, and as we know, the Switch has a custom X1, which could offer even more potential or at the very least the same. Also, some games use GeForce Now, so that shows how decent the streaming capabilities are.

And for comparison's sake, here's how the old Nvidia Shield TV holds up against the PS4, the console expected to be so easy to port games from to the Switch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myv1gK0fDHk
Definitely has its pros and cons, but all in all, a pretty decent device.

If anything, even if you're still not convinced, how about we just wait and see until we know more instead of slapping "tablet" and "not really a home console" all over it?

@JaxonH Some interesting ideas, but I wonder if the Switch will be able to handle multiple remote signals or if that is just meant to be a "laser pointer" for player one so the touch screen functions can be translated to the Joy-Cons when it's docked.

@ThanosReXXX Well, that spiel of mine was all just my perception on marketing the NS to the general public outside of Japan. I think all of us here know it's a hybrid, and even without having held it, know it's a damn good one for 2017. From what I've heard, even the disenchanted PC gamers seem willing to have a go at it, if Nintendo can arrange it's infrastructure properly. And that's no mean feat, since they're all up in arms over Star Citizen lately.

As for benchmarking the Tegra, the UE4 Elemental showcase of Tegra X1 in it's early stages gives a fairly good idea of what to expect as a bare minimum benchmark from the NS. It didn't quite match the PS4 in that benchmark, but that dates back to early 2015. The technology has matured by 2 years since then, so there will be further improvement from that. An update is in order.

The Tegra K1 is a fair frame of reference that has more maturity than what's in the NS. However, since it's a whole generation behind what the NS will have, that data serves as more of a bare minimum practical benchmark that gives us an idea of what to expect out of things like battery life for NS. (Which will likely range from 3-6 hours, depending on settings.) The NVIDIA Shield with the K1 may actually undershoot the mark, and give a somewhat lesser impression than the NS tech will actually be capable of. The NS has way better performance capability and modern tech features than the Shield. Even little (but important) things like the SD card slot is already ahead of it's time.

The Tegra X1/custom in the NS can handle 1080p 60 FPS undocked from a technical perspective, I'll be interested to learn why the device is down clocked and brought to 720p undocked. There's 2160p output potential in the tech specs, so I'm pretty sure some modders are going to eventually try overclocking the NS while docked. I wouldn't expect games to be able to use that, though, only non-gaming media. So 4K display output with things like Netflix is within the specs parameters.

@JaxonH True, the tech hasn't been up to snuff until now to really create a true hybrid console. I just used those examples like the Nomad for what little historical frame of reference we do have. (We have Bernie Stolar and other Sega of America executives to thank for all the stupid decisions in the mid 90's. The Saturn's hardware and software actually sold more than the N64's in Japan...)

Granted, I have a Nomad myself, and I really liked being able to walk around and play Genesis carts... It came with an easy to use lock-on rechargeable NiMH battery pack (which lasted for around 3-5 hours depending on the settings), in addition to a battery pack shell for using AA's. (Works like a charm with modern NiMH AA's!) A controller could be plugged in for (close quarters) 2 player games, at home or on the go. It could even be played through a TV, with a regular A/V cable, much like the PSP/Vita. It was quite an impressive piece of kit for the time- it showed Sega learned from their mistakes with the Game Gear. But at nearly the cost of a Saturn, it was too expensive a proposition for most, and the initial ~1 million unit production was not continued.

Though they occured over 20 years ago, those are lessons which Nintendo should make use of. Most people were not innately inclined to pay for a portable version of a console they were used to back then. The same holds true today, since NS performance comparisons with the PS4 is inevitable. We know it's more than a portable version of 4 year old console, but Nintendo has to explain and sell that to get most people onboard.

@rjejr Well, I obviously can't tell you what to think, nor would I want to, but my point stands, it is rock solid and you're wrong, no offense.

First off: the 3D in the 3DS truly isn't essential. The 2DS is the prime example of that. Same games, but with the 3D tech removed. And it works brilliantly and the games are none the worse for it.

Now in the case of the Switch it is not a simple "well, if I can charge it by cable, then I can also attach it to the TV".

No, that just isn't the way it would and could go. Like I said, the dock contains some proprietary connector or tech, BESIDES the USB-C connector, that "tells" the Switch to go into full power mode. It's not just the USB-C connector that does that.

If that were true, then you could use the now officially announced charging cables for TV display as well, and it has been EXPLICITLY stated that these cables are ONLY for charging your Switch, for example while you play with it out of the dock, so you won't have to fear that 2,5 hour battery life minute when you're sitting on your couch doing some off-TV gaming...

So, you need some extra contraption to replicate the functions of the dock, and AGAIN, even though all of that was already in my previous comment, you would also need to have the Switch in some kind of stand, since the connectors are on the bottom, so the integrated kickstand won't do.

But not only to be able to reach the connectors, it also needs to stand upright to be able to provide for enough cooling, since without the dock, you'd lose that integrated ventilation system, that is tailor-made to the Switch. I'm pretty sure that there's a little more to the dock, even though it, in and of itself, it doesn't contain any hardware to upgrade the system's power, there's still some auxiliary and necessary tech inside.

I just can't imagine it costing that much and not being a necessary part of the console, so maybe they'll be able to miniaturize it eventually (or probably) but the functions of the dock need to be replicated in some way, shape or form.

And that is why the Switch can't do TV display without a dock or a dock replacement. That is also why a 3D-less 3DS is not a good comparison of that, because that was never meant for the TV and it doesn't need the 3D to fulfill all its functions.

@PlywoodStick
I think also, something to note, is it was strictly a portable version of something many already owned. Maybe if it launched concurrently with Genesis many would have opted for it instead. Or if it launched _instead _ of the Genesis, and had a Switch-like dock, I wonder if Genesis would have done even better.

Thus far no one has been able to create a compelling product, but I think Nintendo may have finally cracked that nut. Even strictly as a handheld, Switch seems like a much more appealing device than 3DS ever was. The fact it's seamless into console mode just adds to it. It'll be interesting to see how it does. Even if they have to end up marketing it as a handheld with seamless console tossed in as a bone for the 10-15 million Nintendo fans left who still want to play their games on the TV.

My goodness though, you actually own a Nomad? That's freaking awesome. Super collectible piece now

@PlywoodStick I know those demos and those benchmarks are old, but that is EXACTLY why I pointed them out to you and everyone that wants to at the very least take the trouble to look at them and soak in the info.

That's why I also said in that very same comment, that if you already see what could be done with the older Tegra hardware, then it should be quite obvious that WAY more can be done with the newer, customized hardware that is only in the Switch, and besides the custom chipset, it also benefits from having its own API, NVN, which is also tailor-made to get the most out of the hardware.

Combine that with the other API they will use, Vulkan, which is ALSO designed to get better 3D gaming results out of modest hardware, and you might understand why I claimed that the differences between third party ports really isn't going to be that big.

I'm not going to say that it is always going to be marginal (the aforementioned 900p vs 1080p) because with the more ambitious games it will probably also impact the AI, number of characters on screen and some other more graphical bells and whistles, but all in all I think it will do more than fine, and that is why I'm not too worried about the Switch's (or Nintendo's) future.

I have to wonder about the SD card slot comment, though: how is that ahead of its time? It's already been in Nintendo handhelds since the DSi, and Sony's handhelds also had their memory cards, albeit proprietary, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you there.

The last part of your comment I can completely agree with (always good to end on a high note ) and I also think that the Switch won't be able to do 4K, or maybe with streaming video, and maybe somewhere along the way, we'll get a dock 2.0 that actually DOES contain that extra video power, or maybe we'll still see those infamous SCD's popping up at some point, who knows...

@ThanosReXXX ""well, if I can charge it by cable, then I can also attach it to the TV"."

I never ever said "attach it to the TV", I said charge it w/o the dock, big difference. If you needed the dock to charge it, then you need the dock, but if it can be charged w/ a USB-C cable plugged into a wall outlet or extra battery pack then you don't need the dock for charging.

And just like the 2DS exists b/c you don't need 3D, a dockless Switch can exist b/c you don't need the dock, just play games on the Switch.

They are selling the Switch dock by itself for $90 yes? (Well $90 US, not sure about the rest of the world.) So, then sell the Switch by itself for $229, then if people want TV out they can buy the dock later, it's an accessory that's required for TV out, but not to play games on the portable Switch.

The biggest con, con not scam, Nintneod has going on is the idea that the Switch is a portable w/ TV out. It isn't. They keep saying it's a home console, but everyody keeps arguing for them it's a portbale w/o TV out, when it isn't. Nntnedo is smart to say it's a home console, b/c it's $299 and a replacment for the Wii U, and not say it's a portbale w/ TV out, b/c it isn't. But they have everybody else saying that for them. It's great, they don't have to say a word while everybody spreads what is basically a promotional lie for them. The Switch is no more a portable w/ TV out than the Gameboy Player played Gameboy games on the Tv. It didn't, it was an accessory for the Gamecube. And the Dock is an accessory for the Switch, which is a portable, but it doesn't do TV out b/c you need the dock to get TV out. A dock which they are selling separtly as an accessory, but they are also putting it in the Switch box, where it doesn't need to be. The fact that they are selling the dock separlty is proof in and of itself it's an accessory, meaning it isn't necessary.

"And that is why the Switch can't do TV display without a dock"

But why should it? You don't need a TV display when you have a 720p touchscreen. You only need the dock to convince people that your tablet is a home console. And they need to convince peopel i's a home console b/c Wii U failed. But it isn't a home console, and it isn't a handheld w/ TV out, it's a tablet that requires a separate dock accessory for TV out, and separate $80 Joycon controllers to make the tablet into a handheld.

I'll give you this one, selling the tablet w/o the Joycon would be a really bad idea. But if they did sell the tablet bundled w/ the Pro would the system still work? It would, but not for every game, they need the Joycon for 1 2 Switch. So even though the tablet works by itself, if really needs the Joycon to be a Switch. But it doesn't need a TV to be the Switch. Every game works on the tablet screen. There is no reason at all to hook it up to a TV. The dock is an unnecessary accessory to play games on the tablet. You need the Joycon for some games, and a Pro will do w/ others, but you don't need a dock to play games, and playing games is what it's all about.

I fyou want to say it needs a dock to be called a Switch b/c that's what a Switch is, then fine, but then they can sell it w/o the dock and call it a SwitchBoy or SwitchMini or SwitchLite or Switch2DS, and it would still play all of the same games, ieven i fyou think it wouldn't be a Switch. A 2DS isn't a 3DS, but it still plays all of the same games, just not all of the sme games that a New 3DS plays. But that's a discussion for another time.

Don't let Nintnedo tell you what a Switch is or what a Switch needs, look at it and decide for yourself. It's a gaming tablet, that has separate controllers for non-touch games, and a separate dock for TV out. The Switch is a tablet, everything else is secondary. It's my Tesseract from months back, Nintneod just put it all in 1 box and gave it one name, but that doesn't mean it needs to be in the box.

@rjejr I'm going to keep this a bit shorter than usual, because I'm all out of big slabs of text...

But joking aside, fair points and sorry for misunderstanding you, I honestly got from all your walls of text that you wanted a dockless Switch to do all the stuff that it also does now, so both be a portable and a home console. My bad again, seems to be my modus operandi today, seeing as it is happening across multiple threads...

But having said that, there are indeed going to be people that will want this hybrid setup straight out of the box, being able to select handheld or TV play at a moment's notice. I don't think it's smart to separate that.

If someone is satisfied to just play on the go or on the small screen, then I can imagine him or her wondering what to do with that relatively useless dock, but other than that...

But that last bit of text... I HATE to think of it as a tablet, and I don't think Nintendo does either. Tablet-like I can live with, but unfortunately, the uninformed populace will probably call it a gaming tablet or something similarly short-sighted, because they have an intrinsic need to be able to put something in a box and label it. But it is, and should be a hybrid.

And Nintendo has every right to call it what they want, since they put the thing on the market. It can be a home console to some, a handheld to others, or a hybrid, but I'll probably croak before I'll ever call it a tablet. Tablets are inferior gaming devices with iffy touch controls that DON'T bring a smile to my face, and Nintendo does have the capacity to do that to me, and in spades, I might add.

It's the Nintendo difference, and this time around, they better make that damn clear. Gotta educate the sheeple...

300€ to milk a cow? no thanks :/

@ThanosReXXX "and maybe somewhere along the way, we'll get a dock 2.0 that actually DOES contain that extra video power, " That's probably not likely. I'm not sure if the USB-C port is USB 3.0, "3.1" or "3.1 rev 2" (What has Apple done to the USB Consortium ), but I'd guess it's 3.0 or 3.1 which is really 3.0. Even if it's 3.1 however, eGPU support still doesn't work on that. It would need to be either Intel Thunderbolt 3 ($$$$$ not likely), or some proprietary nVidia eGPU implementation (that's possible I suppose, but I honestly doubt it, that would be a pricey option.)

I'm inclined to agree with you and disagree with @rjejr regarding the dock. I can agree with rjejr about the benefits of selling the Switch in a cheaper dockless bundle, and I think that will happen, and I think it will happen in Japan first. But FIRST they need to flood the market with the combo to get the idea cemented in the idiotic public minds as to what Switch is all about before letting you go a la carte on it. The quick dock to TV undock to go is a solid message about what makes it's versatility so good. I liken it to Apple (again, not an Apple fan myself) who doesn't just dump tech options on the market and leave you to figure it out. They created a system where they tell you exactly what features you're going to have to learn to love, and exactly how you're supposed to be using them. Apple ruled a whole industry with that model because consumers, as a group, are not very bright, especially in the tech sector. Apple spoke to them by showing them what they're supposed to like and how they want to use their tech. Nintendo's doing the same, on a cheaper scale. Lets face it, would Switch really retail for much less if it didn't include the $8 pass-through dock?

And even for the mobile-only crowd. My 3DS came with a charging cradle. My 3DSXL made me buy the cradle - I imported it from Japan before they were sold here for the N3DSXL. It's a charging cradle for your Switch that lets you store it vertically...that's STILL a win in my book. I paid $25 for one of those for 3DS.

@NEStalgia Think of that more powerful dock as one with an extra graphics card inside, and it creating some custom SLI configuration with the Switch itself, and that could of course be custom-built into it. And external graphics cards actually do exist, so it's not really all that weird to see that as a possibility.

And then there's still the whole SCD thing: the only patent fully cleared and paid for, and still no news on that, so they must surely still have some plan for that somewhere down the line...

@PlywoodStick @JaxonH @rjejr @ThanosReXXX Just came on here to post that you are all wrong.

No, I kid. Been out of it a bit this week classes started up and my preparation was lame because I had a debilitating code (that's cold in coldese).

Anyhow, thanks @ThanosReXXX for the invite into those comments with the person with hands on experience. I read stuff but a couple days late to comment

Glad to see @rjejr in the back-and-forth and that he hasn't abandoned Nintendo yet.

@PlywoodStick 1-2-Switch is staying on my preorder list. I'm just saying.

@JaxonH I'm really starting to get curious where your income comes from because I'm pretty sure your gaming lifestyle leaves no room for work or school. No judgements, just curiosity.

Anyway, all of you and your thoughtful discussion, and a few others on here make some of those potshot comments about Nintendo and the Switch seem so — well, I'll just say it — pathetic. And don't get me wrong, "negative" comments and those critical of Nintendo are important, it's the simple, ill-considered and unconsidered comments that sometimes grate.

On some of the topics here about tablet vs. home console vs. portable, I think we mostly all view it in a complex way, as we should, and the part that is "unsolved" is how best to market it.

My view, so far, is that it's important for Nintendo to make sure the Switch gets noticed initially without being dismissed. I don't disagree with positioning it as a home console first and foremost in the US because it sells the narrative of taking that with you as an important advantage over the current competition. Nintendo also positioned it, during the presentation, as a culmination of all the best parts of previous consoles, which I bet we'll hear more of over the year. And that over-the-year approach is going to be where it can really gain momentum.

This thing is its own traveling salesperson. Gamers are going to know that Switch owner and want to try it out and my observation is that the most positive vibes coming out of all the marketing is from people who had hands-on time with the machine. That bodes well for the future of this device.

Some Nintendo Life commenter brought up this term: "event-portable" and I kind of like it. The Switch is fantastic for events and gatherings. Better than any portables, better than any home consoles.

I wager it will be a moderate success overall and that will begin by the end of this year, but I also think it has the potential to catch on fire and get some mass media hype levels going over the next two years. Way too many unknown factors to have any level of certainty in my mind, though.

@aaronsullivan
Well it definitely leaves room for work (the massive funding source of all my gaming endeavors), and school is during work hours getting paid to be there (no homework) so no extra time spent there.

Keep in mind I shop with GCU (20% off) and roughly 6% back using BestBuy CC and 2% for double reward points X Elite Plus member modifier. And I take advantage of deals like the recent "$25 Off $100 Purchase with VISA Checkout", where I cancelled all my preorders and grouped them into $100 purchases, saving me roughly $250 from that offer alone.

It's still a lot of money, yes... probably averages to be 2 games per week. This week was Tales of Berseria, Gravity Rush 2, Dragon Quest VIII (and Watch Dogs 2, was waiting for price to drop). But next week nothing is coming I'm aware of, so it all averages out. In the end though, 2 games a week after discounts is like $70, which isn't really that bad if you think about it. Maybe $150 a paycheck on games. Probably more doable than a lot of people realize.

The big expenses only come when new hardware drops. PS4 Pro was $400, and then PSVR was another $500, and now Switch (which between buying 2 systems and full Santas bag of accessories is probably $1300, plus 18 Switch games preordered including 2 Zelda special editions which is another $700). Thankfully it's tax return time, and $2000 back should be exactly enough.

@rjejr
The fact that they are selling the dock separlty is proof in and of itself it's an accessory, meaning it isn't necessary

Controllers are sold separately and considered an accessory, but they're still a very necessary part of any console.

I do agree that at it's heart it doesn't need the TV play to be sold- it is a self-sufficient unit by itself just like the 3DS or any other handheld. You are right about that. But that doesn't mean it's not important. The purpose of the dock is not just so they can "say" it's a console, The purpose of the dock is to allow the tens of millions of people who prefer to play their games on the TV to do just that. Even people who traditionally enjoy playing on handhelds, most of them are probably not against playing their games on a gorgeous TV screen sitting back in the recliner. And people who traditionally favor consoles are certainly going to want to play that way. Traditional TV play as a console is crucial to the Switch. It's crucial for gaining back a piece of the console market. Which is the market they've been losing ground in for the last 20 years (barring the Wii).

The west prefers their games on the TV and the Switch is considerably powerful given it's portable form factor. Powerful enough to actually be a normal Nintendo home console if it didn't have a screen. And that shouldn't be trivialized. You could look at it either way- as a handheld that has an accessory to dock to the TV, or as a console unit with a screen attached, which detached from a dock to be taken portably. But arguing over that is pointless and will be fruitless.

The bottom line is, if you want to play a Nintendo console, Switch is your home console. If you want to play a Nintendo handheld, Switch is your handheld. If you want to play both, Switch is your hybrid. In the end, it's everything. Even going so far to prop up on a kickstand with detachable controllers to provide console quality play on the go as a handheld.

I think labels do a great disservice to what the Switch actually is. You're right and that nobody should allow Nintendo to dictate to us what it is because we can clearly see for ourselves what it is. But don't overlook the fact that it is truly everything. It is whatever you want it to be or everything you want it to be

@ThanosReXXX Well of course you are never going to call it a tablet, you spent 3 months saying you were never going to call it a dock, but here we are.

Even Nintendo isn't fool enough to call it tablet, nothing to be gained by that unless they want another Virtual Boy on it's hands, but when you look at what the Switch is, well it looks a lot more like this 7" tablet I'm typing on than the PS4 Slim I just finished playing on. Does Apple even call their iPad a tablet, or is it just an iPad? I know they said iPhone is a smartphone, that's how they introduced it, a smartphone, an iPod, and Internet browsing device.

So yeah, Nintendo can call it a home console, and they can call it a Switch, and they can bundle a lot of accessories in the box and say they are all one part of the whole. And Trump had more people at his inauguration than Obama, and he won the popular vote if you takeep out the millions of fraudulent votes that were only for Hillary, not for him. Welcome to 1984, we're all truth is fake news, and all lies are alternative facts.

Work is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
2+2=5

I kept telling people that franchises like Art Academy and games like Super Mario Maker will not be possible on Nintendo Switch. The way the console is designed places the touchscreen capability on a backburner, and can be totally ignored, unlike the Wii U which is heavily depended on its GamePad's asymmetrical touchscreen capabilities to thrive with the experiences it was offering.

@ThanosReXXX What you describe would be eGPU, which while that's certainly a real tech, It's pretty questionable if Switch supports it. It would need Thunderbolt 3, which is a fairly pricey implementation and involves Intel royalties....which Nintendo would avoid like the plague as they always do with licenced tech. So far, even in the laptop world only the super-premium and enterprise-oriented laptops tend to include it. It's probably a safe bet there's no TB3, and it could be like my Lenovo that has it, but doesn't support eGPU.) Alternately there DOES exist the possibility of a proprietary nVidia variant of exteranal GPUs the way Alienware does it. But, what are the odds of Nintendo spending a good chunk of money on developing a super high speed bus over USB-C for an accessory they may or may not make? I'd never rule it out because it is technologically possible, but just with a knowledge of Nintendo and the required bus, it just doesn't seem likely at this point. And a later-sold Switch Boost would be kind of 32x-ish....that's a bad thing

@JaxonH Dock being important doesn't make it necessary though. It would have been hard to sell the 3DS w/of the 3D, b/c then it's just a DS2, but they did it anyway with the 2DS.

A lot of people said - OK maybe just Mahe - that they should sell the Wii U without the Gamepad. I'm not sure Nintendo Land or Lego City Undercover work well without it. Of course now that LCU is on PS4 I guess they figured that part out. Same for ZombiU. And Splatoon. But I don't think Nintendo Land can have a Switch port. So Wii U needed the Gamepad. But nobody has shown me a game yet that needs the dock. Joycons yes, no 1 2 Switch w/o the Joycons, which is why even though Switch is a tablet, you need the Joycons for 1 2 Switch, and I think ARMS as well for the full effect, even though it works with a Pro. So I think the Switch as a $100 tablet in a box is a non-starter. But what do we need, not want or like or appreciate, what do we need the dock for? I haven't seen the need, other than to say, "look, it's a home console". Now, I am willing to go the other way and say the dock is so important people will need 2 or 3 of them. But when they say need what they really mean is "I want to play my Switch on as many TV as possible so I need more docks." But they only need 1, they can just move it around. People confuse want and need all the time. People only need 1 to play on as many tvs as they want, but they only need 1 dock to so. And people need a dock to play on tv, but they don't need to play on tv, they only want to.

When we see a game that requires the dock, won't play without it at all, then it's a requirement. Until then it's a requirement to do tv out on your Switch, just like Gameboy Player was a requirement to do Gameboy games on your TV visit a Gamecube. But you didn't need a Gameboy Player to play them, just a Gameboy. And you don't need a dock, just a Switch.

You know, I hope they do come out with a game that requires the dock soon just so I can stop having this conversation.

@aaronsullivan Hey, it's none of my business what you do with your JoyCons... That's between you and... whoever/whatever you pray to/converse with/host tea parties for.

@rjejr
It's not about "requiring it". It's about being a console, and without it it's an incomplete console.

@JaxonH "incomplete console"

No, it's still a console, it's a portable handheld tablet. It just wouldn't have the accessory to do TV out.

I get it, Nintneod wants to call Switch a home console, and they can't call it that w/o the dock. They need the dock in the box to call it a home console. And they can call it whatever they want and market it however they want, but it's still a tablet. A pet rock is still just a rock. Though the actual phrase "Pet Rock" is trademarked, so don't use it.

Interesting short read to see how marketing and fads work. Not saying Switch will be a fad, but marketing is at work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Rock

@rjejr
No, they don't want to call it a home console, they want it to be a home console. If they wanted it to be a handheld they'd have made it without the dock. But they didn't want to make a handheld, they wanted to make a console that is portable like one.

A pet rock is just a rock. And a gaming device that plays console games on your TV out the box is still a console, whether they slapped a screen on it or not

@rjejr
And forget the marketing. Use common sense here.

They made a console in compact form with a screen so that it can be taken and played on the go. This presents a hurdle. People don't want to unplug and plug in a console every time they take it somewhere. Solution? Make a dock, which makes it easy to plug in and out.

It is a console.You're just hell-bent on insisting it's not, so it's all you see. Like selective hearing. If they slapped a screen on the GameCube so it could also be played anywhere, would that make it stop being a console? If they made it thinner and more compact for ease of carrying, would that make it stop being a console? If they included a device which makes plugging it in and out alot easier, would that make it stop being a console?

Then why would Switch suddenly not be a console?

You've got to stop trying to apply labels, and categorize everything neatly into tiny, compartmentalized boxes. Without the dock it would be a handheld. But it's not being sold without the dock so that's a moot argument. It's not about calling it anything, it's about what it is.

@JaxonH They should put this on the back of the box under the words "home console".

@rjejr
Tell me then. You're making a console that can be taken anywhere. What do you do?

Unless you would like to argue a portable home console is an impossibility? Right. So tell me, what does a portable home console look like. If this isn't it, then do enlighten the rest of us as to what it does look like so we can know the difference.

You're making a home console that can be taken anywhere. How do you do it then?

It's kind of ignorant to say they're lying when the GameCube did the same thing. And Nintendo has a history of trying ideas before the technology catches up. Like GBA connectivity for dual screen console play. Unless you'd like to argue Wii U didn't really have dual screens. They just "called it that"

@JaxonH "You've got to stop trying to apply labels, and categorize everything neatly into tiny, compartmentalized boxes."

"It is a console."

Um, your the one insisting it's a "console", not me. Your the one stuck on "console", I'm fine saying it's a tablet, or a portable when it's paired w/ Joycon, or a home console when it's in the dock. You're the one stuck on "console", I'm a lot more flexible than you are. I'm even more flexible than Nintnedo, b/c it's not a hybrid, a hybrid implies 2 things merged together. (Go read any definition of hybrid, it always says 2.) I think it's more than 2. Switch is a tablet at it's core, it seems to run just fine w/ touchscreen controls, everything it needs to run games is inside of it's tablet body, somebody just needs to program in touchscreen controls. Then when you add the joycons its 'a portable handheld gaming device. 2 sticks, pseudu D-pad, 4 buttons. Takes game cards - tablets are pretty much download only so that's an improvement for pruchasing games. Take the Joycons off, it's a monitor for 1 or 2 player gaming on the go. Put it in the dock, it's a home console.

So I'm saying Switch is all of these things, your the one who keeps saying it's a console. Switch is more than that. Its' more than a hyrbirs. Its' at least 3 devices in 1, maybe more. So to label is a home console is actually wrong.

So I'm saying it can be anything, your saying it's a console, but somehow I'm the inflexible one. Go figure.

@rjejr
But it is a console. That's fact. It's also a handheld. That's fact. It's a hybrid. Fact. I'm not restrciting it into one tiny little label.

See, I was with you when you said it was a handheld. When you said it's only a handheld, that's when you lost me.

@JaxonH "People don't want to unplug and plug in a console every time they take it somewhere. Solution? Make a dock, which makes it easy to plug in and out."

The real solution. HDMI out. Either w/ a cable or a wireless dongle. Or a USB-C to HDMI adaptor, tiny enough to fit anywhere.

Maybe you only get 720p and Stereo out, not 1080p and 5.1, b/c you can't overclock when it isn't getting the extra outlet power, but isn't that something you'd be willing to put up w/ in a hotel room for a few hours? No dock just a simple cable?

You can't take Switch "the console" w/ you everywhere. What's the difference between unplugging a console and unplugging the dock? None. Zip. Zero. That's why I say it is NOT a "portable w/ TV out", b/c you can't take it anywhere for TV out unless you take the dock w/ you. And if you are going to unplug the dock power and HDMI, well then just unplug your PS4 or X1 or Wii U. The dock doesn't make it easier to take with you than any other console. HDMI out would.

Or a wireless dongle for streaming to TV. Something that slides into the back of the switch like 1 of those USB bluetooth devices that PC mice use.

Bluetooth wouldnt' be powerful enough, but you can do HDMI over wireless. PS4 streams remotely over wireless to PSTV.

Any of those would make it a "portable w/ TV out" if they attached to the back of the Switch, and then you could even call it a "portbale console" if you wanted. Now you would still need power after 2 or 3 hours, but you would need that whether you did TV out or not. So while it's important, you could still do TV out at a friends house or hotel for a few ours w/ just 1 HDMI cable or dongle.

Dock wasn't the easiest way to do a portable w/ TV out, it was the worst way to do a portable w/ TV out. It might be the best way to do "enhanced graphics on a TV", but they aren't really promoting it that way, are they? In fact the dock makes it not a portable w/ TV out, it makes Switch a portable that requires an accessory for TV out that enhances the graphics.

Gotta run pick up my kid from school, midterms, family first, but I'll get back to you later.

@rjejr
What?

Nobody cares about taking a console somewhere to plug in a tv, they care about playing the games when there's not a TV.

You can take any console and plug into another TV. That's not the point here. The point here is to have a console that is capable of providing you with a way to play it anywhere, via the portable form factor and built in screen and ease of plugging back into your TV when you get home.

Why is this so hard for you to see?

@rjejr
And how can you say it's "the worst way".

Really? You'd rather reach behind your entertainment stand, unplug the AC adapter, uplug the HDMI, take all that with you, and plug it all back in again when you get home? That's better than just grabbing the system and pulling up and walking out the door? In what crazy world?

And you can still do that as with any console. The whole point here is also playing it without a TV. Play at home like a normal console, but also play anywhere like a handheld. Thus- hybrid console was born.

This isn't rocket science here

@JaxonH "No, they don't want to call it a home console, they want it to be a home console."

I'm back. And I must say this is the most zen conversation I've ever had regarding videogames. You ever see CaddyShack?

@rjejr
Just wait till you get your hands on those Joycons.

I hear they meld right into your palms. Guy was saying he was playing Arms, and forgot he even hand controllers in his hands at all.

It's all about the zen experience with Switch

@rjejr
And just think, if they release a VR peripheral, you can be one with your game world too

@JaxonH "When you said it's only a handheld,"

I don't think I ever said it's only a handheld, I think I said it's only a tablet. OK, same thing I guess, no point demeaning our philosophical debate with semantics.

Were you part of the conversation last summer w/ me and the other guys when I started calling it the Tesseract "platform-in-a-box" after the dock rumors broke?

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/talking_point_considering_the_angles_of_a_portable_and_dynamic_nintendo_nx

Wow, that's so funny. We are having the same conversation now that we were back then, only not with each other. You were all gung ho for the dock, saying cables suck, and I was all, make 2 SKUs, 1 w/ the dock and 1 w/o the dock. I even said sell "2-packs of Wiimotes and Nunchucks." I know those 2 pack Joycons aren't Wiimotes and Nunchucks but I'm going with "close enough" on that one.

Oh, you'll hate this post I made #138 -

The "tablet" is the console. In order to play with it on the road, you attach the controls, which are optional b/c it will also work as a smaller touchscreen tablet b/c most kids these days are raised on touchscreen tablets and dont' know what real buttons do. But yes, most gamers will keep them attached when playing on the go. But when you play at home the tablet needs to be placed into a wired dock which is wired into your tv. There is no 2nd screen play like the Wii U, the tablet is inserted into the dock next to your TV so the HDMI wire from the dock can plug into your tv. You need to take the controller portions off of the tablet to use them to control the game on your tv.
That's the rumour anyway. I'd like to think the base station dock will come w/ a Pro controller so we can keep the attachments on the tablet and not have to take them off.

_________________________________

I guess you win on that one though, I called the "tablet" a console. Guess you don't have to hate it after all.

Post #156 to long to put here but relevant part:

"But now, well the NX could actually be a tablet, w/ add ons, and a dock. Basically Nvidia Shield w/ Nintendo written on it. So that wasn't really my tablet idea, my tablet was a controller, not a console."

OK, enough reflection. Moving on.

@JaxonH OK, that previous article was the 2nd 1 that day, only 200 comments, her'es the original w/ over 400 comments. I was #34

"Yeah, it's my Tesseract, isn't it. Or a tablet if it has a screen w/ detachable controllers on the side. And an underpowered one at that. I'm calling it the Nintendo Tesseract anyway. "

Now if only I could find my original Tesseract comment. The rumour mill was running us all ragged last summer.

I like my post #93, I called Nintneod insane for making a $100 base that didn't play games, only up res the graphics. Missed it by $10.

"Base station will be sold seperately, and it will have horsepower built in. Handheld only needs to do 520p and stereo, tv needs 720p and 5.1 surround. Would Nintendo be insane enough to make a $100 base that didn't play games, just upres the $200 tablet onto a TV and allow for TV multiplayer? Who would buy it?"

Guess I was right about the "Who would buy it?" if not even you will spend $90 on a dock.

Ah, finally. No, not my original Tesseract comment, but I think I know why I see it the way I do - tablet w/ accessories - and you see it the way you do - home console. Want to guess who's fault it is? It's all Nintendo's fault. They are the ones who originally started calling NX a "platform", I just keep refering to it that way. And they are the ones who now call it a "home console" and you keep calling it that. We are both basing our beliefs on what Nintneod said, just what they said at different times. Problem solved.

"I've been comparing NX to Shield for about a week now, thinking it was basically the shield "platform" w/ Nintendo written on all the pieces, base, controller, tablet. I've been hung up on Ninteod saying "platform" in their financial report."

Guess we should move on now huh, we're both just old dogs set in our ways, I've seen this from the beginning as a tablet w/ accessories and you've seen it from the beginning as a home console w/ a dock and nothing is going to change that now after all these months.

You skipped that entire thread by the way. And I realize now after reading those comments why I keep seeing it as a tablet. One of y earliest reactions to the news - if the only bundle it, then I need to buy 3 docks but we only have 1 good tv. So I am wasting money on those extra docks, which Ninteod is selling for $90 each. So we may buy 1 Switch as a home console, but the kids won't each get their own as a 3DS replacement until they can get the portable version w/o the dock. My 12 year old son has no TV, what's he going to do w/ a dock and an HDMI cable?

When 3DS goes away and they start selling some Switch variant to kids as a portable, they'll need to loose the dock. It's the only thing that makes sense. SwitchBoy for $199.

@JaxonH Eureka!! I found it. Didn't think I was going to stop did you?

OK, keep in mind this post is from 3 days before NL started covering the leaks, 3 days before the above threads. I think I did pretty good. And it explains why I'm so set in my ways, especially the last sentence.

""At least part of the NX platform includes a console on par with XB1/PS4?"
Well I've always thought that. OK, not always, last year I thought they would simply put out NX as a retro game machine, and everybody just laughed at me, but we did get that, only separate, so now NX can be something more.
I do still think it can be a cheap box though. X1 has been $280 since E3. X1 has a 500GB HDD and a blu ray disc drive player. Take out those 2, make it cartridge based and 64GB storage w/ a slot for more, that's a $199 or $249 box that looks like a toy.
So "on par" as far as game playing power, OK, but it won't look or seem "on par" w/o a HDD or blu ray drive.
And then there's the Vita. Vita is a really nice piece of kit, as the Brits like to say. New 3DS isn't too shabby. Don't you think it's possible to make a $199 handheld in 2016 that would play Sonic 2017? Or Zelda BotW? Old 3DS can play Hyrule Warriors and New 3DS XC, why can't NX Away play a limited scope Zelda or Sonic game?
Now I do think NX will have a Home component w/ power on par w/ the X1, maybe not PS4 so much but close enough like X1 is, but that power could still come from a handheld w/ TV out, or some Tesseract thing that docks into a TV stand or Circle PAd Pro controller. Or a tablet. So I agree w/ you about the power, just not sure about the use of the word "console", might be too limiting."

That's the Tesseract from the Captain America movie. I view the Switch as the inner cube section of the Tesseract surrounded by all of the outer cube parts. The tablet powers everything. If you want to call the "tablet" a "console", fine, you deserve that much after reading all of this.

Click on the vid, it's very cool.
http://brianclegg.blogspot.com/2011/07/behold-tesseract.html

@rjejr
Well I'd rather call it a hybrid, since it covers all bases of what it is and does.

It's like one of those amphibious boats. Is it a boat or a land vehicle? It's both. Saying it's one or the other does a disservice to the truth.

But ya, I'm sure price will come down to $250 this Christmas or next. And at that price, you could get each of your kids one regardless. If you really don't want the dock, list it on eBay for $50 and it's like you paid $200, plus someone else gets a dock half price.

@rjejr I think you're getting too hung up on the $90 price tag of the base. It's not a $90 base. It's a free base included with a $300 console system. But if you want a SECOND one, they'll gouge you $90 for now. They're not upping the price of the actual console for that base, the real manufacture cost of that base including HDMI licensing would be under $5. Most of the cost associated with the docking would be part of the Switch itself (the cooling and heat management and software to recognize it and switch modes accordingly. ) Meaning for am REAL cost perspective, if they didn't include the dock in the box, they could knock $4-5 off the price, and that's it. It's a free dock, and the console itself contains most of the expense associated with the ability to dock it (meaning you'd have to pay for it anyway.) In all reality it would still be $299, or MAYBE $290 without it. You can't look at the package as "oh they made me buy the $90 dock." They're just gouging on spare docks because it's something that only a very tiny percentage of (worldwide) customers will buy and those that want it will buy it. I imagine outside the US the don't ever even need to make another set of boxes for stand alone docks, they've already made enough.

Also, it's really not a tablet. It's in a chassis that is tablet form-factor, but the device itself is far more handheld than tablet. A "tablet" doesn't refer to the form factor, it refers to having a fleshed out semi-open OS with a digital store for software, and applications for it to serve as a music player, video player, streaming player, email client, web browser, and overall productivity tool. A "tablet" is defined more by the use case and software support than by the hardware form factor. The Switch does not perform any of those tasks (or few of them) and remains a device to play video games on. A.K.A. a console (or handheld console) A 2DS and Vita are as much a tablet as Switch. Especially Vita with it's 5" touch screen.

It uses hardware designed for tablets, but then again, so does PS4.

@JaxonH "If you really don't want the dock, list it on eBay for $50 and it's like you paid $200, plus someone else gets a dock half price."

But then why put it in the box if the Switch is going to work w/o it? Why should I have to pay for it at all? B/c Ninnteod wants to market their handheld portable tablet as a home console?

OK, forget all of that, we can probably discuss - is it a console, is a tablet, is it a platform, is it a hybrid - forever w/o getting any where. But you still haven't answered the original question:

What game NEEDS the dock to play on Switch? I say Nintneod Land needed the Wii U for the Mario tag game and ghost mini-games. 1 2 Switch NEEDS the Joycon, I just don't see any way of getting around that even w/ 2 Pro controllers I don't think it would work. But what Switch game requires TV out? Name just 1. Prove to me Switch REQUIRES the dock.

Did you know Nintneod has sold some of their consoles in parts of the world w/o a charger? People buy a 3DS and have to buy a charger on their own, Nintendo doesn't even consider a way to power your 3DS important enough to include in some boxes. But a dock has to be in the box? That's contradictory and doesn't make sense.

@rjejr
Uhh... we've been over this.

You sound like those people saying "well I don't use Internet, so why am I paying for a wireless card in the unit" or "we'll I don't use the mousepad, so why am I paying for it"

Goodness, not every consumer product is going to have exactly the things you want and nothing else. There is already a handheld Nintendo is selling. This is their console to replace Wii u. Don't want a console? Then don't buy it. Buy a 3DS.

However if you DO want it and only intend to use half its functionality, sell the half you don't want!

@NEStalgia "A "tablet" doesn't refer to the form factor,"

Print out this pic, white out the game cart and all the words, show it to 9 people, I don't like ties, ask them what it is. Let me know how many say "tablet". I'm guessing most. How many say "Screen" or "tv"? How many say "console"? Let me know how it goes.
Edit: OK, I suppose the pci might help.

If you want to argue a tablet isn't a phycial device, it's th eOS inside of it that makes it a tablet, lets do the opposite fo rwhat makes a "Gaming console" in 2017.

Large HDD for storage
dic drive
streamng multimedia apps

Switch isn't going to have any of those at launch, so if you want to argue it isn't a tablet b/c of the OS, I can argue it isn't a "Gaming console" b/c of the lack of hardware and software.

Switch is still a tablet. It isn't an "Android tablet", it isn't a "Fire tablet", is isn't an "iPad", but it's still a tablet. lenty of cheap $25 knock-off dumn tablets in Kmart that have lousy apps. HEck Windows "Tablets" don't even have some of the apps that Android and Apple tablets do. But they are still tablets.

Switch isn't a tablet? It's a rectangle w/ a touchscreen and an OS, you really can't get any more "tablet" than that if you tried. If it didn't have the touchscreen - and I wasn't really sure if it would or not, my comments to that affect are all over NL - then I was prepared to not call it a "tablet" but a "gaming display" or "gaming monitor". Sony never called it's 24" display a TV b/c it didn't have a tuner. But the touchscreen makes it a tablet. Unless it has cell service, then it's a phone. Tablets and phones are like rectangles and squares. Though I suppose a digital TV tuner might make it a TV and not tablet. I dont think Gamepad was a tbalet, b/c it din't have anything inside of it that opereated w/o the Wii U. Well maybe the TV IR, but that makes it a remote control, not a tablet.

But you dont need iOS or Android to be atablet, if that's your arguement. You do need an OS, and SWitch will have that. Barnes and Noble Nook had a tablet that had a really bad digital store before they worked it out and got Google Play, but it was still a tablet.

Vita and 2DS are NOT tablets, pyhscial buttons. Nvidia Shield Tablet is a tablet:

Nvidia Shield or Shield Portable is not b/c it has physical controls.

Nvidia figured out what a tablet was and what a portable was years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_Portable

@rjejr
Without the dock, it's not a functioning console. Without the dock, you cannot play your hybrid console out of the box. Without the dock it's just a handheld. And they're already selling a handheld.

3DS should have a charger inside. But not having one doesn't change it from being used as a handheld. Not having a dock does change Switch from being used as a hybrid console.

And btw, it's not a tablet. It has buttons to control it, just like 3DS or Vita does. Tablets are exclusively touch. And consoles don't have to have large HDD's. Clearly, since Nintendo has never made a console with a large HDD.

Just give up on this crusade to label the console. Call it what it is: a hybrid. A console to replace Wii U that is fully functional as a handheld unit, with a tablet form factor

@rjejr The picture above is out of context though. You're showing it without it's attached controllers, nor with being in a dock. It's a useless device as shown - tabletop mode without the controllers present. Show those 9 people a picture of the Switch either docked, or with controllers mounted and ask them what it is? Now find me a tablet that could be confused with it as the same type of device?

Now if we use your picture and 9 people say "a tablet", let them try to use it and find out they only thing they can use it for is playing retail video games. That it can't play music, stream video, write emails, or anything else but play video games. Those people would quickly realize "Oh, I can't check Facebook? Oh it's a video game player then?" The thing is the Switch would make a terrible tablet. It's not thin. It' can't be thin enough to be a tablet with an active cooling solution (because it's a gaming device). It's not a large enough screen to be a tablet. And to do what it's designed to do the way it's designed to do it it can't be either of those things. To make it a useful tablet it would need a larger screen, it would need to be thinner. that would mean it would need to be heavier (larger battery) but also couldn't fit an active cooling solution (would have to be less powerful.) To make it a tablet would be to cripple it as a handheld console (not easily hand holdable while playing) and as a home console (not as powerful as docked, no cooling solution.) It would then be a tablet and not a hybrid console. And with the features needed as a gaming device, it therefore can't be effective as a tablet (not a big enough touch screen, much too bulky a body. Joysticks sticking out the top, triggers sticking out the rear.) What a terrible tablet that would be!

Like I said it's built into a tablet FORM FACTOR. Visually with the machine powered off, without it's controller portions or docks connected, of course it looks like a tablet. It's a portable device with a screen. You'd have to get creative to make it something other than a rectangle. Again, if you remove the buttons and sticks, the vita looks like a tablet too. You can't remove modular features until the product looks like another product and declare it to be the same type of device if the other product dosn't have those modular features. No tablet has rails to mount controllers to either side of the screen for handheld use, and the Switch does not have an app store, or productivity (or even media consumption) tools. They're not the same device. And no tablet has an active cooling solution with big vents at the top. (Well maybe the nVidia one, but then that was sort of a prototype they pitched to Nintendo.)

I think there's way too much cherry picking of features to try to prove the point that it's a "tablet". If I understand your perspective, you seem to be of the opinion that if the Joycons were welded to the frame, it would suddenly be a handheld, but since they can be detached, it's a tablet. But that ignores the fact that they're integral and required to use it. Just because they're modularly attached and wireless doesn't make them less integral than if they were welded to the frame. That just confuses the visual with the functional. If it didn't have a touch screen you'd not say it's a tablet, but if it has a touch screen that no software can actually require use of and acts as a tertiary input, at best, and only in one of its two modes, it's now a tablet.

Visually it looks like a tablet, but only if you strip out the required but undockable physical input devices.. Functionally it does nothing a tablet is actually used for, and can be used in no way other than what a gaming device is used for.

"It's a rectangle w/ a touchscreen and an OS"
I think Apple tried that exact argument in patent court that nobody else could make smartphones or tablets that were a rectangle with a touch screen because that was their patent. Didn't work for them either.

A tablet isn't a shape. It's a device class by use type. Nobody buys a tablet that does only one task, or that can't be driven primarily by its touch screen. Sure you can plug in a keyboard and mouse, but that's an option while the touch screen is the primary input. The Switch depends on it's "keyboard" (controllers) as the primary input. Touch works as an optional accessory in SOME configurations, but can not be relied upon as useful for the majority of software. Can you imagine selling a tablet that every time you start the browser or email client says "sorry, please connect keyboard and mouse?" Nobody would accept that as a tablet no matter if it looked like one. And Switch doesn't even look like one. Half of the machine is missing in the picture. Even in "tabletop mode" the "detached" side panels are still required for use. Maybe they could have hardwired them like the red Famicom just to drive the point it's not a tablet?

It's a device with an optional touch screen feature that's available some of the time, but requires use of it's attached but removable video game controllers all of the time and can do basically nothing but play video games.

Picture aside, I can't imagine finding 9 people that would call that a tablet

Edit: Forgot to add this, but your own pictures kind of agree with me at the end. Look at nVidia's tablet. It's a very large, thin device. It's pretty heavy. Then look at nVidia's Shield. It has integrated video game controls, a smaller screen, and is easily hand holdable. You're right. nVidia figured out the difference! Switch, when you include the whole unit in the picture, looks more like the bottom picture than the top. Besides, you're the one that thinks the JoyCons are really $80 and the Dock is really $90 in the package. That's so wrong of you to show only $130 worth of the $300 machine as though it's all of it

@rjejr Well, not to nitpick, but I never called the Switch, or back then the NX a dock, because it isn't. The Switch is what goes INTO the dock...

But I've long since corrected myself on that one, and eaten humble pie as well, so no need to dig that stuff up any more.

"Work is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
2+2=5"

Yep, but only on your side of the pond. I'm one of the few Americans that actually lives in a country that is NOT run by an idiot with a dead squirrel on his head who wants to wage war on Mexico because of a wall, who wants to make the world polluted again and thinks that women shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion if they choose to do so for whatever valid reason...

Amsterdam truly feels like a little slice of heaven right now...

Oh, and as far as your other discussion partner @JaxonH goes: no offense, but I'm with him. He is checking all the boxes and making a heck of a lot of sense, maybe you should re-read what he is trying to convey to you.

Not saying you should doubt everything that comes out of your own head or mouth, but there's more than just black and white points of view. There's a lot of shades of grey in between...

I also saw you dredging up the direct cable link again, which only works if you want to use it exclusively as a handheld, but there will be millions upon millions of people who will not want to do that, so they need that contraption that I told you about two times before: the one that replaces the dock and replicates its functions to let the Switch run full speed. A simple USB-C to HDMI adapter simply won't do, unless you're indeed willing to settle for lower resolutions on the TV as well.

And it has another drawback: the frame rate will be lower as well, all because that dongle/adapter will not enable the full power of the device. Now who in his right mind would want that? I know I sure don't...

And as for discussion number 3, with @NEStalgia: I'll only add to that the point that if it would really be a tablet, then why can't you use it without the Joy-Cons? All we have seen so far of that is some touch screen abilities in menu selection, but that won't be enough to control games. You NEED the Joy-Cons for that, so that is why I said earlier that I'm willing to go as far as agreeing that it's tablet-like, but it is definitely not a true tablet.

And I already expressed my feelings about letting the consumer decide what it is; not good. If a company markets something, then they'd better make damn sure that they can get the message of what it actually is, across to the general audience, and opposing points of view ain't gonna help that any further along...

@NEStalgia No, not necessarily eGPU, that could be done by an external dock, but what I am saying (only theorizing, mind you) is that a dock 2.0 could be more like a hot swap-SLI device, so insert the Switch and you have double the graphical power, and without it, just the base model, almost (but not quite) like the PS4 Pro.

Only in Nintendo style...

I'm just trying to speculate on how they are going to future-proof it and whether or not that infamous SCD is going to be any part of that or not.

On a side note: I know more than enough about IT-related stuff, so no need to educate me, no offense.

I've been in IT-related sales & marketing for over 20 years now and I've worked for the companies like HP, Microsoft and Google, so I've been around...

@ThanosReXXX No offense taken. I actually assumed you were at least informed based on your comments, but one never knows...plus others might read and be inclined to reply that would have no clue what the conversation is really about

Anyway, even for an SLI type implementation, you'd still need the external bus to be operating at PCI-E speeds...and really 8x minimum. Looking at the switch, knowing Nintendo's own stated considerations in hardware design going back decades, do you honestly think they would include an ultra-high-speed bus into a USB-C connector, when an off-the-shelf USB 3.0 controller costs pennies? I'd never rule out the potential since it's a technical possibility, but if I were to bet on it, I'd go 2000:1 against. Nintendo goes for the most cost effective route except for risks they're taking on the next big thing. Heck I really doubt that bus is 3.1 rev2 let alone TB3/SLI speeds.

Now one thing they could do is release a "dock" that is in fact an upgraded console (full console built into a dock with a fan), that behaves as a "dock" because the storage and gamecards still to into the Switch you dock into it. Meaning it dock mode it just uses the internal Switch 2.0, and undocked uses the original as a handheld. Not unlike PS4/PSPro, and Scorpio/X1. But would Nintendo risk segmenting the games so that some don't run on the handheld anymore? That's the kind of policy they're trying to get away from.

The concepts are so promising, but looking at the Switch, I'm just not seeing much potential that the support for an SLI-type system is built in. I'd love to be proven wrong, of course.

@ThanosReXXX Though they new, updated specs page mentions the dock's USB ports ship as USB 2.0 but will be upgraded to 3.0 in a future update. Note 3.1, not 3.1rev2. Granted that's the dock's ports but if the Switch isn't even shipping with proper drivers for the replicator to even run at 3.0, ehh...no, there's really minimal chance of any SLI type solution through the external USB.

It does make me sad to see that like WiiU we're back to "USB ports are 2.0 but we'll patch it later", "SD cards can't actually be used until you patch online day 1" (HUUH?! How do we still not have the OS complete by ship date again!?) Granted PS4 had features that weren't available at launch, or for 2 years (suspend) but not the hardware support. It's also sounding like it won't support BT headphones (though that's far from certain, it says BT4.1 only in docked mode under communications...not sure if they mean BT networking or BT in general.) That's a big faux pas considering Apple's forcing BT only for headphones on the industry, and even my old Vita suported BT headphones. That's something that might just be a communication error from them though, addressing networking specifically.

@rjejr I've got it. I was looking at that picture of half a console again, and it occurred to me what was in the back of my mind. I wasn't seeing a tablet. It looks like a Garmin GPS! It's about the same size, shape, thickness.....that's what it looks like. Though I'm pretty sure nobody will call this thing a GPS, it's not a tablet form factor, it's a GPS form factor. It's just that GPS's and tablets look very much alike. Also, blue shells aren't shown on the GPS.

@ThanosReXXX "unless you're indeed willing to settle for lower resolutions on the TV as well."

I'd buy a $50 cable today to get 3DS out to tv at that resolution and frame rate just to get those games on a TV. Have you had a chance to buy any VC games on Wii U? Some of those older games look just fine. You'd never know Advance Wars was an old handheld game.

And we're talking about 2 different things I think. Of course in my house hooked up to my 52" TV I want it in the dock. But traveling, well I'll settle for TV at 720p and stereo by putting a tiny cable in my pocket than having to pack up the dock or only playing on the 6.2" screen. Switch is supposed to be portable. And its 'supposed to play on TVs. But it only plays on TVs w/ the dock, and the dock isn't portable. I haven't seen a single case w/ space for the dock. That small Dell USB-C to HDMI cable would fit anywhere, and most people would have a HDMI cable to use for a bit. Probably even a hotel if you asked at the front desk.

"then they'd better make damn sure that they can get the message of what it actually is"

Well they are doing a horrible job at that. It isn't a home console, though it can be, it isn't a tablet, though it can be, it isn't a portable, though it can be. It's a device w/ multiple capabilities, but they are really only marketing it as a "home console", which is limiting and wrong. And I do think right now an argument can be made that the dock does "enhance graphics" b/c it supplies power and therefore lets the GPU and CPU run at higher speeds. So while it's easy for them to say - the dock doesn't do anything - I think that's misinformation as well.

Here's a question I can't find the answer to - does the fan work in portable mode or only when in the dock? If it only works in the dock, why not put it in the dock and have it blow directly over some wholes in the back of the Switch tablet wher eit needs to be? Then they coudl have at least marketed the dock as being necessary to keep the console form over heating when producing TV level graphics.

"then why can't you use it without the Joy-Cons?"

The only reason this article exists is to show the touch tablet being used w/o the Joycons as a touch tablet device, so I'm not sure why you are making that blatantly false comment here of all places. At the 6:33 mark not only do they start showing SKylanders touch controls but for exactly 1 second you can see another tablet in the top right corner which looks like it has a game on it's screen and is being used as a touch device as there are no Joycon on it. I feel 100% certain there will be games like FE Heroes and Pokemon Shuffle on the Switch. Tablet games.

@JaxonH "Without the dock it's just a handheld. "

Wrong. Without the dock it can be a tablet. Did you even watch the video at the top of the page? You and Thanos both seemed to miss the point of this entire article and thread. It can be a handheld/portable game console. I'm ok w/ using those words interchangeably though I'm sure there's some difference I'm missing. It can be a monitor. 2 player w/ the Joycons or in tabletop mode it's really working more as a monitor.

I thikn perhaps you, and many other people, are too focused on Switch meaning and being both a portable and home console. A hybrid. But that isn't what Switch means. How many times have you seen this pic and heard that "Click" sound? Switch is about "Switching "the Joycon on and off, changing from home console mode to tablet mode to portable mode to tablettop mode. And 3 of those modes - portbale, tablet, tabletop - don't use the dock at all. So Switch has 4 modes, dock is usefull for 1, home console, so it would still very much still be a Switch w/o the dock, you would still be switching the joycon on and off going from tablet mode to tabletop to portable. That's the "switch" in Switch. Not a 2 system hybrid, only home and handheld, but 4 different modes switching the joycon on and off. That's the Switch, and the dock is only used in 25% of that. It would still be the Switch w/o the dock.

Sorry, don't think it's possible to make the click noise on here, but I'm sure you know what it sounds like.

@JaxonH "Tablets are exclusively touch."

Tell that to the Wikipad.

Gaming TABLET review. Mobile gaming TABLET.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHeakyIeENE

You don't get to decide that a tablet is "exclusively" touch. Your word. Nintendo calls Switch a "home console", the Wikipad company calls their Wikipad a "tablet". You can't say 1 is right and 1 is wrong.

Wikipad Tablet Gaming.

http://www.wikipad.com/gaming/

And they aren't the only ones.

AMDs Project Discovery TABLET

https://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/amds-project-discovery-tablet/

But wait, there's more.

JXD Singularity S192 Is A Tegra K1-Powered Gaming Tablet

http://www.androidheadlines.com/2015/10/jxd-singularity-s192-tegra-k1-powered-gaming-tablet.html

3 tablets with physical button controls for gaming. No reason Switch can't be right there next to them as a tablet. Or gaming tablet. But a gaming tablet is still a tablet.

Here's a guy w/ a review of 2 more gaming tablets. Personally, I think he's nut calling a 3DS clone a tablet, but the other bigger one would likely pass as a tablet for most people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwgKazoE-jk

World keeps moving forward, gotta keep up, tablets have controls now, that's just the way it is.

@rjejr
From dictionary.com

tablet
flat slab of stone, clay, or wood, used especially for an inscription.

You know that's where tablets got their name right? Because they imitated having a tablet to write on. So if the devices purpose isn't to imitate a tablet to write on, you can't really call it tablet

Furthermore

game console
noun
1. Also called game(s) console, gaming console, video-game console. a computer system specially made for playing video games by connecting it to a television or other display for video and sound.

Now look, you wanna classify Switch as a tablet, knock yourself out. But doing so while denying it is a home console is ludicrous.

@rjejr "Here's a question I can't find the answer to - does the fan work in portable mode or only when in the dock? If it only works in the dock, why not put it in the dock and have it blow directly over some wholes in the back of the Switch tablet wher eit needs to be? Then they coudl have at least marketed the dock as being necessary to keep the console form over heating when producing TV level graphics."

I've heard the fan only works docked, though even if true there's nothing to say that later on a game that needs it can't spin it up low. But that would be a battery eater. The placing of it, though, if it were in the dock it would need ducting to blow through, and you lose airflow velocity to torsion with every slight dimple in the plastic/metal. The internal fan lets them mount it vertically directly over the SoC's heatsink to maximize cool air intake through the radiator fins.

"Tablet games": Yeah the shaky cam video shows a game being played as a tablet game, for a game that almost certainly also features joycon controls. I'd be a little surprised if Nintendo would license games that can not be played in TV mode and break their core strategy. They won't block a game allowing a game to be played with touch in handheld mode, but most games won't be supporting that, and the games that do support it will almost certainly be required to offer Joycon control as well so it works on TV mode.

Tablet: Those pictures are all pictures of gaming devices that nobody buying a "tablet" would ever take seriously. The company can call them a "tablet" to make it trendy and marketable, and more importantly, to not call it a handheld gaming system and have to compete with Nintendo on THAT front all they want, and Nintendo can call Swithc a "home console" to make it appeal to the west all they want, but they're all labeling things for marketing purposes. More importantly those are running normal tablet OSes meaning undocked they have all the features of a normal tablet. The Switch does not. OTOH they only play mobile games while Switch plays retail games. They're just very different products. What they all have in common, tablets, gaming tablets, and Garmin GPS's is that all of them look like Switch in some of it's configurations, but the switch performs the same functions as virtually none of them.

That said, details aside I don't disagree with the bulk of your description and categorization of Switch. But I do think that you, and the original article here are placing an emphasis on the touch screen optional mode as a bigger feature mode than will likely be allowed to exist. Again, curated walled garden = Nintendo and Apple. They don't let developers just do whatever they want like an Android system, they have guidelines and specific approvals. Touchscreen-only games are very very unlikely to be approved, at least off the eShop, and possibly there as well.

@NEStalgia "The internal fan lets them mount it vertically directly over the SoC's heatsink to maximize cool air intake through the radiator fins."

OK, that makes sense, it's not a system fan, it's a heatsink fan w/ Thermaltake and all of that. Got it, thanks.

"and the games that do support it will almost certainly be required to offer Joycon control as well so it works on TV mode."

I don't know about that. How many 3DS games REQUIRED 3D? How many Wii U games REQUIRED the Gamepad? 3 years from now when 3DS is truly last gen I think there will almost certainly be "touch" games like Pokemon Shuffle and SMR. Heck, if SMR isn't on it by Christmas I'll be surprised. I've played a lot of games on my 4 7" tablets over the years, so before you say - Switch is too big for 1 handed Mario - it should be fine, you can always use 2 hands, 1 to hold it, 1 to touch the screen.

"The company can call them a "tablet""

Well you've already lost that argument. Almost the entire basis of all my conversations over the past 3 days have been my saying Switch is a tablet, but everybody telling me I'm wrong b/c it's a Home console. And do you know why it's a Home console"? B/c Nintneod, the company that made it, said so. So if Nintnedo can declare their tablet to be a home console and we have to accept it b/c Nintneod says so and it's their tablet, well then you have to accept that these other gaming devices are tablets b/c the companies that make them said you. You DO NOT get to have it both ways.

I'm beginning to think you are just throwing stuff out there.

"those are running normal tablet OSes"

What does that even mean? If it's a tablet, and it runs an OS, then it's a tablet OS. Apple and Android do not equal "normal", they equal Apple and Android based tablets. Amazon Fire is a very popular walled garden that doe snot have either Google Play or iTunes.

"The Switch does not."

Does not what, have a tablet OS?Or an ANdoird or Apple OS? What kind of OS does it have then? If you can take only the tablet w/ you, no controllers, turn it on, go into the eShop, look around, buy some games, that's an OS working w/ touch on a tablet. What if it gets Super Mario Run? How many games does it need to be a "Tablet"? How many games does Microsoft tablets need, b/c they don't run Android or Apple OS either but plenty of people have a Microsoft Surface tablet. Or just a tablet w/ Windows 10.

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/NuVision-TM800W610L-Signature-Edition-Tablet/productID.5078216000

Well at least we agreed at the end, always good to go out on a high note. I'm still just calling Switch a device. I think that's the same conclusion MS has come to w/ it's tablet devices. Surface is a family like the 3DS family.

https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/home?WT.mc_id=pointitsem+Google+Adwords+Microsoft+-+EN&s_kwcid=AL!4249!3!170050509339!b!!g!!ms%20store&invsrc=search&ef_id=VBBwiAAAAVchOubR:20170128185254:s

@NEStalgia All valid points across your two latest replies, which is why I explicitly said I was only speculating...

But who knows? Maybe they invent (or maybe there already is) some kind of converter that they can integrate into dock 2.0 that would make some things like SLI possible or at the very least more feasible.

Needless to say, but I'll do it any way just in case: this was again only theorizing. Let's just wrap this one up and send it to the "old articles that aren't relevant anymore until we get more information" department...

@rjejr Fair points and agreed on the marketing not truly shining yet. I actually thought they made a good start, but then they fumbled and seemed to have dropped the ball once again, latest idiotic move being the so-called "specs reveal", which actually has no specs to speak off... Oh, well...

But as for that marketing: I really think they should highlight the hybrid nature and also label it as such, because it plays EXACTLY to the strengths of the device. Just like you said: it can be a home console and it can be a handheld, and what not, and all these things combined really fit the label hybrid.

The examples you gave Jaxon are valid on one hand, but on the other they are not, because their functionality is intrinsically different, and here's why:

These so called gaming tablets do NOT have native button controls. I won't hold it against you if you think they do, but besides the few obvious ones that slide into a cradle with controls, already showing that it's just an add-on, probably bluetooth or some USB connection, the one with integrated consoles is STILL an Android tablet without native button controls.

All games on all these systems can be customized with a button mapper, that translates the touch screen controls to the button layout of each specific device, but that isn't a standard thing.

There are some default settings, but these only work with the simpler games, so nine out of ten times, you would still have to do your own button mapping.

From all that I've read, the Switch isn't running on Android but on Linux, or a custom fork of it. Since Android also derives from Linux, it has some similarities, but also enough differences to make them two entirely different entities.

And of course it's highly customized, so we will just call it NinOS, for lack of a better word, in any case: it's different, one of a kind and has NATIVE button controls as well as a touch screen for basic operations, as shown in that video that was posted here a few days ago.

Anyways, I don't want to stretch out this argument any longer than we already did, and I also don't want to keep nagging about it. Suffice to say that I just cannot, in good conscience, call it a tablet, but I'll meet you halfway and agree with you that even though Nintendo says it, it's not a home console. Hope you didn't fall off your chair reading that. Hate to be responsible for injuring a senior citizen...

But having come to that conclusion is also the reason why I ended up with it being a hybrid, because it's simply the best fitting solution.

But I saw in the other article that both me and the others have thoroughly worn you out over this, so I'll stop here. We will either have to agree to disagree or just not talk about it anymore to safe us both the trouble. And sorry for wearing you out, if that is truly how you feel, because that was never my intention.

You were just so vehemently putting your heels in the ground and sticking to your points, that it made me and/or the others probably just as adamant to make you see our point as well, and that's when you get what we got here: a tough and lengthy debate.

But I like to consider myself as one of the good guys, so if my debating skills (or according to some: lack thereof) are causing other people misery, especially the ones I actually like talking to, then it's time for me to stop doing that, so this will be my final comment on the whole tablet debate.

I just hope you aren't going to fan the flames again somewhere in the near future or we'll probably do this dance again...

True enough!

The only last note is, that's one of those features that really needed to be built in at the initial design of the console, so if they're planning it, they already know it and included the required bus.

Then again, remember that accessory port and tripod mount thing on the back of the gamepad that we never even saw a RUMOR about what it was intended to be used for? So Nintendo's not alien to building in hardware for future accessories.....so, you could be more right than I'm inclined to think

Oh, and @rjejr already fanned the flames in another thread. That's just kind of his thing

@rjejr P.S.

As for the whole dock n' fan thing: I see NEStalgia has already shone a light on that, but plenty of leakers, including the blue haired dragon Laura Kate Dale has already said that the dock activates the fan and the dock has heat ducts, so I suppose that in portable mode, it only has passive cooling, hence also the lower resolution and clock speed, and when inserted in the dock, the CPU goes full speed, the fan is activated and it can produce better resolutions and frame rates.

And seeing as the "specs" reveal article once again states that 1080p/60fps is ONLY available in docked mode, that passive vs active cooling is the only thing that would make sense. Otherwise there would be no reason at all for it to not also have the same specs when in portable mode.

But that fan running full on in portable mode would also seriously affect battery life, as NEStalgia also already pointed out.

@NEStalgia I suppose that reply is for me, but you forgot to tag me...

@ThanosReXXX Whoops, right you are!

The one other thing that could affect 1080p/60Hz in portable mode is if docked mode allows a larger current draw than the battery allows and bypasses the battery, keeping it on a secondary charging circuit. So it could support higher specs when docked due to the availability of the cooling solution, or due to the availability of higher current draw, or a combination of both.

@rjejr btw, I haven't forgotten your other post, I'll reply to that when I have more time

@rjejr FINALLY getting to reply to this one, sorry!

I think others have compared the need for joycons to the 3D on 3DS (or maybe it was you), but that's not a real comparison. We're comparing an optional display setting that doesn't affect actual gameplay to a hardware input method that dramatically affects gameplay. The inevitable port of DKC:TF will not be playable on a touch screen. The 3DS port of DKC:R played just fine without 3D. There's an impulse to compare "main gimmick against main gimmick" even if it's not related. Switch, to be Switch - to be a home console and a handheld (and a tablet if you'd like) simply requires the hard inputs for the vast majority of it's software, and that's pretty unlikely to change. Maybe they will permit some download-only software that can be mobile touch only, that seems questionable as a decision, but it's possible. I don't think you'll ever see a single retail gamecard that requires that. So even if the option exists for some limited software, it's not fair to consider touch a valid input across the system when at best it will apply to a small subset of software. It's more like an optional accessory included in the box and some games can require it (maybe a download-only Art Academy or such.) It has more in common with the N3DS - it's not different than the regular 3DS most of the time, except for the handful of software that uses its extra features.

Tablet: Hey, don't confuse me with all the people saying it's a home console because Nintendo says it is! I'm in your camp on that one, I cringe every time Nintendo uses the word "home console", it's not. It can function as one but that's not what it is primarily. So I get the right to use this argument

"If it's a tablet and runs an OS it's a tablet OS." That's circular. If it's not a tablet, then it's OS is not a tablet OS. Alternatly whatever the PS4's OS is is just a PC OS, not a console OS. And the XB1 is running the Win10 kernel so therefore the XBox One is a Personal Computer, right?

"Home many games does it need to be a tablet": If I can run nethack on my calculator and my phone, can I call my calculator a phone because if I limit myself to only the pieces of software they have in common, then they're the same device? You can't say Switch is a tablet because if you limit it to only the handful of software that could also run on a tablet it's the same thing. The entire point of the former is because it's not limited to that software, because it's different than the hardware that is. We're down to "If I remove half the hardware to only the most basic component it can function with with only a limited portion of it's software, then it's just like that other hardware!" The argument just gets silly. It support almost none of the functions for which anybody buys a tablet, and it supports in an optimum way a single feature that is generally duct taped together as an experience on a tablet.

As an extension it's not as if hybrid 2-in-1 devices are an unprescidented product class that we have to struggle to decide which one it really is. I'm typing this right now on a convertible ultrabook. I'm TYPING this. Using physical inputs. That are permanently attached in a sealed hinge design. However, if I flip it over 180 derees, the keyboard is hidden, and the form factor of the device becomes a 14" tablet with nothing but a rectangle and a touch screen. Is this device a tablet? By your criterion, yes. But it's not, it's a laptop. But a laptop doesn't have a touch screen and a fully hidden keyboard. Therefore, it's a hybrid device...a 2-in-1...a convertible...a SWITCHing device. Nintendo's not the first to hybridize two different product types into a single multi-use changable one. They're just the first to do it with a dedicated gaming device (and I'd argue the only one with any know-how in portable dedicated gaming that could actually pull it off.)

But yes, we're otherwise in agreement. You don't think it's a "home console", I don't think it's a "home console". I just think it's a tablet even less as much than it is a home console. If you never undock it it really is a home console no matter how it does it. Whereas it's pretty much never actually a tablet. It's absolute lowest common denominator is to call it a large handheld.

@NEStalgia Working myself backward, got to Sunday.

I think your laptop w/ touch is a laptop w/ a touchscreen, that's how I see them advertised all the time. If the keyboard is permanently connected then it's a laptop, some have touchcreens, some don't. If the keyboard disconnects like the Surface then it's a tablet. The joycon come off the Switch, leaving a tablet behind. A functioning tablet, even if it doesn't function w/ the apps or the OS you'd prefer in a tablet. (PSTV is the most worthless piece of junk ever invented, but it's still a set-top-box.) If the Joycon were attached full time like a Gameboy, Vita or 3DS I'd never call it a tablet. Vita has a touchscreen and a back touchscreen but it isn't a tablet. Switch will almost never be used as a tablet, touch only games will be limited, and if Nintneod is stupid enough to leave off Netflix et al well then it will never be anybody's tablet replacement, but there are a gazillion cheap knock off tablets in Kmart that nobody is ever going to buy or use or replace their good tablets w/, but those worthless pieces of junk are still tablets.

The Switch device is at a hardware level a functioning tablet b/c it has everything necessary to function as a tablet - touchscreen, hardware, OS - that is designed to performs better as either a portable or a home console. "Switch" in quotations is a "home console" in quotations b/c Nintendo says it requires everything in that box to make it a "Switch". W/o a dock it isn't a "Switch" and w/o the Joycon it isn't a "Switch". (I think MS sees Surface the same way, not sure they sell Surface w/o the keyboard, though I could be wrong. Or maybe "Pro" requires the keyboard to be a Pro?)

Anyway Switch is a device for me from now on. It's core is a tablet, accessories make it a portable or a home console. Nintneod says the tablet isn't "Switch", Switch requires all of the peices put togther - like only the 5 combined are Voltron, nobody ever calls the 5 little robots Voltron. That's where it ends for me, Switch and "Switch".

"Switch" in the middle, 5 Switch pieces everywhere else.

@rjejr LOL, that picture! I wonder if I still have my old Voltron stuff somewhere in a hidden closet. Probably worth money if I do. Looking at this stuff now makes me wonder "how did I not see this as weird" at the time

Not just a laptop with a touchscreen, but it swivels over (the hinges are 360) so it can actually be held/used fully as a tablet. But it's a laptop. (ok the tablet is so absurdly heavy on a 14" model that it's hard to use that way....but the 12" ones are much lighter.)

I think the "tablet" issue is your definition of tablet isn't really in sync with what the market would loosely define as a tablet, nor what the industry would. It's overly precise and limited specifically to the hardware details rather than the use case. By your fairly flexible definition of tablet, I suppose you're right when you say it's a tablet. But I don't think that's what most OTHER people mean when they say tablet. A "tablet" refers less to the hardware form factor and more to the use case as a general purpose computing slate. When people are tablet shopping they're not shopping for "something that can be a rectangle with a glass touch screen and no physical inputs permanently attached", they're shopping for "something to use as a tablet" I.E. "something to surf the net, write shopping lists, finish reports, send emails, take and browse photos, and stream video/audio." A Switch is not that.

I think one thing that breaks the real comparison is the too-specific limitation that the "controllers being detachable" make it a tablet. The other way to look at it is : But unlike a tablet, the controllers are attachable and molded for the body rails. I don't think saying the "designed and shaped as part of the overall system, but can be detached using the custom built rail design and release latch" controllers makes it a tablet any more than "But I duct taped an X360 to my Surface!" makes it a handheld gaming console just because the controller is attachable. Maybe MS will make a surface with rails they can attach separately sold controllers to (but I'm sure Nintendo's patent makes that difficult for a while), and even if they do, it's still a $1200 console.

Heh, I hope they do better than the Surface brand in their consistency. Surface is a true tablet running mobile hardware, and originally came with Win8 RT (the not-actual-windows for ARM that only ran Metro apps, but just marketed as Windows 8.) Then the Surface Pro is actually an X86 ultrabook inside a tablet form factor with an optional keyboard sleeve. Then Surface Book is actually a convertible laptop (and absurdly overpriced, especially considering it has a keyboard THAT bad.) Surface Book does have the "SCD" concept though with a discrete graphics card in the keyboard base dock (optional.) Surface isn't a family beyond "every Microsoft made mobile device with a battery shall be called "Surface"! If only Nintendo could get away with their pricing. Surface Book starting at ONLY $2400! $800 for the normal tablet (and that's the SALE price!)

And people are still railing at $300 for a Switch.

@NEStalgia "But I don't think that's what most OTHER people mean when they say tablet."

Well, if we want to get down to the nitty gritty, nobody says "tablet", everybody just calls them iPads. Not just the hipsters either, everybody, even the guys announcing NFL games call Surface tablets iPads.

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-nfl-surface-tablets-ipads-2015-9

So if you want to argue Switch isn't an iPad, well I can't argue there, no iTunes.

LOL, you know, I just hang out in different circles. I've never heard anyone call a tablet an iPad unless they're Apple hipsters or it really is an iPad. And that's someone that's already heard someone call a Switch a Wii. Then again, I don't spend my time in East Village Well and most Surface users don't actually know the Surface is a tablet or is related to an iPad. The power of marketing and telling people what they should think of something that they otherwise have no idea what it is.

That's hilarious about the NFL announcers. Then again, those guys are little more than blow dried media hacks (that are probably Apple users off camera where MS paid for the gear). I'm amazed they don't call touchdowns "homeruns"

@ThanosReXXX "the so-called "specs reveal", which actually has no specs to speak off"

Was thinking of you going looking over that. I think I've since decided - this is a week old thread, still over 300 emails I'm working my way thru - that the specs almost really don't matter, b/c there really isn't anything to compare it to. Had Sony done a Vita dock rather than PSTV then we'd have a comparison, or New 3DS had TV out, but Switch is the only tribrid, so what can we compare specs to?

Of cours especs will matter when devs start porting stuff, but that's up to them to make it work more than us to worry about it. And I think there's enough hardwork in ther for this gen. 3 years form now PS5 will be a new ballgame, but that's at least 3 years from now, SWitch will sink or swim before then.

I like NinOS. Unless those lunatics make an acual 4DS w/ it's own OS, bc/ we can't have 2 NinOS, NinOS only works if all the devices run it. (I know nobody does that, it's just weird groupthink - Google has Android and ChromeOS, Apple has iOS and MacOS but whatever). I don't see a 4DS though, has to be a Switch portable offshoot.

@NEStalgia You didn't to reply to me on this one yesterday, but I'm assuming its for me anyway. And maybe it's just a NY thing, but a tablet is an iPad. My parents call their generic tablet an iPad and they ain't no hipsters.

Not in my house, we're all tech geeks and I wouldn't stand for it. I had an iPod Touch for a year then traded it in for a tablet. Apple is so good at marketing they've sold a 4" tablet for years but it's always been an iPod, never a tablet.

http://www.apple.com/ipod-touch/

That's the opposite angle of your "tablet" argument I never brought up. iPod Touch has all of your "tablet" requirements - form factor, OS, touchscreen - but it has never been a tablet. Why is that, besides Apple says so?

Here's the iPad Mini page, looks almost the same, Apple never calls that a "tablet" either.

http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini-4/

Forgot about the Pro. If iPod Touch is too small to be a tablet Pro must be to big. And it has a stylus and a keyboard as accessories.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

Apple acts like they invented the tablet, then when everybody else made one they stopped having a tablet, just iPads and iPods.

@ThanosReXXX "But that fan running full on in portable mode would also seriously affect battery life"

Think they could drop the fan in a SwitchBoy if they drop the TV out claim? Maybe drop USB-C entirely in favor of Mini/Nano for charging to cut back on the hacking? Nvivida work some tech magic to keep it from running hot and overheating, yet still play all Switch games? 2 years from now surely they'd be on a smaller die size to help w/ that, wouldn't need a SwitchBoy before then.

@JaxonH I missed your post w/ the Dictionary definitions, which would have come in handy in my discussion w/ Thanos on whether "Console" means home console or includes portables. According to this part I think it only means "Home".

"by connecting it to a television or other display for video and sound."

Unless people want to argue the "built in display" is being "Connected to" to rest of the console.

Anyway I'll take that back up w/ him later, not you, we got enough of our own tablet issues.

"So if the devices purpose isn't to imitate a tablet to write on, you can't really call it tablet"

I almost never write n my tablet, most people I think use them for watching Netflix and YT videos and playing Candy Crush and those "Clan" games. Does that mean we need to start calling all tablets "displays" or "gaming consoles" b/c nobody ever uses them for writing, just for viewing video or playing games? If people really want to write stuff they get a keyboard, not a touchscreen. Probably 5% of all tablet usage is for writing, the rest for viewing and gaming.

You are write (unintnionally funny pun, it was to funny to correct) about the tablet word though, it's about the shape, the slab. Things are called tablets b/c they are shaped like this.

Show that pic to 99 people, ask them what it is, 50 or more will say "Tablet". The other 49 will say Link or Zelda but I'm in a rush and couldn't find a good pic of the Switch w/o it.

@rjejr Still working your way through those emails? Man, I'm certainly not jealous, but kudos for still continuing with that. Does make me wonder how you let it get that far. If I remember correctly, this isn't the first time you had this mail-backlog problem, although not in such numbers...

As for NinOS: I think that is part of Iwata-san's legacy, the whole wanting to have one general platform in multiple form factors, and one architecture and/or OS would certainly be the key to that, but if they're really going to do that, remains to be seen, of course.

It's like I always say: we're still talking about Nintendo here, and they have a knack for doing things their own way, regardless of what the general audience thinks, so there's that...

Oh, and that PS5? That's never gonna come. Only other iterations of the PS4, so after the Pro, we'll get the PS4 Pro II, and chances are, that any true successor is going to be an online service with only the tiniest of boxes connected to your TV, but no true console. Sony's own actions and words already speak volumes towards that option becoming a reality.

Same even goes for Microsoft. Not too long ago, Microsoft even wanted to pull the plug on the Xbox department, so it's kind of a small wonder, especially after their abysmal launch and subsequent tough recovery, that they were still allowed to go on.

And as also said many, many times before: neither of these two have console making as a core-business, so them continuing with new consoles is actually less likely than Nintendo, regardless of the current standings. (just to be clear: not that you said that, but it's an addition to the whole PS5 thing)

And the Switch WILL swim, mark my words. Total lifetime sales will be well above what some people on here are expecting. Then again: I don't take them seriously anyways, since they know f*** all of sales...

@rjejr And the specs only matter to a point, especially since they are using modern engines now, so the disparity in graphics will be minimal, and the difference on the smaller screen will be even more unnoticeable. People who are saying that they can "clearly" see the difference on such a small screen are either lying, crazy or don't have any idea what the hell they are talking about.

I've been watching and reading a lot of developer interviews about the Switch, and the almost unanimous decision is that it is a great piece of kit, developing for it is a dream, there are next to no problems porting over from PS4, there are no limitations other than the slightly lesser graphical fidelity and some have some slight struggles to come up with some way to implement the HD Rumble in some innovative or fitting way.

And the most negative comments I've seen are either talking about not being sure if the Nintendo audience is interested in their game or developers/publishers talking about a wait and see until it starts to sell like hot cakes and then we'll bring our game, but if that's all, then I can't really be bothered to worry all that much.

@rjejr "Think they could drop the fan in a SwitchBoy if they drop the TV out claim? Maybe drop USB-C entirely in favor of Mini/Nano for charging to cut back on the hacking? Nvivida work some tech magic to keep it from running hot and overheating, yet still play all Switch games?"

I honestly don't think so. Of course there's always technological advances, but in all these years that smaller hardware devices have been fitted with fans, their size hasn't shrunk all that dramatically, and that is both due to the moving parts needed, and the yield they must have to be useful. A "flatter" fan won't be able to produce as much cooling and having no fan at all won't be an option, unless we cut out the whole ""let's the Switch run at full speed" thing, so then you'd theoretically be able to run all Switch games, but only in lower resolutions AND lower frame rates.

"2 years from now surely they'd be on a smaller die size to help w/ that, wouldn't need a SwitchBoy before then."

The form factor of the Switch itself is already WAY too small to either let it run full force without cooling or to come up with another solution to make it future proof, because that is what it would need to be, so I'm not expecting there be a mini either.

Unless you'd consider a Switch without Joy-Cons to be a Mini...
But then we'd have the problem of not being compatible with a lot of games, or we would have to have a Switch with a smaller screen, or whatever.

And the same form factor but dockless, even though that might be the most logical of all these options (well, on paper) would also hardly serve any purpose. It would actually defeat one of the Switch biggest purposes, so I'm strongly inclined to rule that out too.

P.S.

Sorry to burden you with yet another three emails...
I'll try to make multiple answers into one big wall of text again from now on...

@ThanosReXXX My email backlog is about 200 from my self ban after Yooka-Laylee and 200 b/c I was sick for a week and couldn't deal and keeping busy over Christmas break.

I used to think a couple of years ago PS4 was the last Sony console then they go all PSNow, controller and a dongle in a box like PSTV, but after what will probably be 100 million PS4, how do they not make a PS5? But more importantly than that, VR will take off (I think you've been telling me that, or similar tech anyway) and they need PS5 to power the PSVR2. PSVR is incredible, but the screen is too low res and nobody knows how to make a proper game on it yet. But by PS5 they will. No PS6 though, it will all be smart TVs by then, w/ built in cameras and Big Brother watching.

Nobody knows why MS is still in the gaming business, not even them. I guess b/c they got out of the smartphone business and took a $10B loss on that so they're waiting a bit. Scorpio is their end.

I'm not guessing Switch's destiny, still too many variables. Every time I say 3DS is over it gets a new game. Feb 28th they'll announce all New 3DS will be $99 and all New 3DS XL will be $149. (In the US $99 Wii Mini bundled w/ MKWii showed up on store shelves just about the same time as $349 Wii U.) Either that or they'll ignore 3DS at E3. But 3DS is a factor, so is their willingness to market. And 3rd party support. And the pace of games on Switch. But if they dont' compeltely screw it up like Wii U, yeah it should do fine. Better than fine. Monster Hunter and Pokemon games, where are they? Too many variables.

Honestly and realistically how many NES Mini do you think Nintneod could have sold by now? They sold 1.5mil b/c that's all they made. I'd bet 5 mil easy, maybe 8mil. They simply didn't make enough. How many Switch do they make? I can't figure them out.

@ThanosReXXX "especially since they are using modern engines now, so the disparity in graphics will be minimal"

Agreed. WiiU couldn't get ports b/c of the type of hardware under the hood, not the actual raw power. Nvidia will see to it middleware or whatever is available to get "close enough" to X1.

"see the difference on such a small screen"

Agree and disagree. Nobody is seeing anything on a 6.2" screen, but Nintneod is still selling this as a home console. Comparisons between PS4 and Switch versions won't be between an HD TV and a 6.2" screen, but from systems hooked up to the same TV. And I wouldn't even bother reading anything otherwise, almost all TVs have more than 1 HDMI port, if you are going to make comparisons, do it right. And that could be were Switch runs into trouble. The Skylandrs Imaginators footage I've watched on Sitch seems fine, we own it on PS4. The DQ pics looked like the Vita version though.

PS4 on the top has smooth curved windows, Switch windows don't even try.

@rjejr On that last bit we definitely agree. I'm STILL waiting for the damn NES Mini to come back in stock because I wasn't able to get one over here, and I'll be damned before I give those scalpers any dime of my hard-earned money...

But I think that, contrary to the NES Mini, they can ramp up production numbers pretty quickly if needed: the X1 chipset has already had an entire production chain since 2015, and the one in the Switch having custom innards/settings won't necessarily mean having to change anything in that chain, so seeing as the new Shield is also once again using the X1, that means that they can simply add the additional numbers to make to the existing production/supply chain.

The NES Mini has custom innards that are maybe not as readily available and of which Nintendo probably wasn't sure that it was going to sell that good. I even recall one Nintendo rep (or was it Kimishima?) stating as much. Or there could be other reasons.

Either way, I'm no happy camper because of whatever that reason is, so I actually don't care, as long as they start making some new ones and I can actually get my hands on one of them, because that is something that I'm already wondering: is it going to be a limited run AGAIN, or are they going to make more this time?

Clear on the email thing. I was also staying out of your way a bit concerning the whole Yooka-Laylee thing, especially after you still being mad even after they confirmed the Switch version, which I always said they would, and just as I was going to send you a "see? it's coming after all" message, I saw your new rant on it and I decided to just not bother...

PS4 Pro is Sony's PS5. I honestly see no new console coming. As I said: they even hinted at that themselves, and the market is getting tougher each year, so their current success is not really any yard stick to measure their next step by at all.

Maybe they ARE going to one-up Microsoft's Scorpio with a PS4 Pro mark II, but for at least the next 4 or even 5 years to come, there will be no true successor to the PS4. They've invested too much in the Pro to simply toss it aside in 2 or 3 years.

What I would see happen WAY sooner, is a much, much improved VR solution, because I indeed believe and stand by my comments on that tech. And the hardware used for that is getting cheaper almost every year, so in two years, you could make a VR headset of more than twice the power, for the same money as they make the PSVR now, and although more powerful, it wouldn't have to be incompatible with current systems, so you'd just buy a new PSVR with your PS4 Pro.

Tiny correction on Microsoft, although also my bad, since I didn't add that to my previous wall of text:

The Xbox division, as it was called, is now no longer an integrated part of Microsoft. Obviously they still have a say in matters, but they used to be a division inside the main location, and now they are a little external company, completely autonomous in design, R&D and manufacturing, so they operate a bit differently since the second edition of the Xbox 360.

They also make their own money now, not having to rely completely on Microsoft anymore, but they do still have to prove themselves to their parent company, and they are doing that as we speak, since they are doing considerably better than 1,5 years ago, although they obviously aren't going to catch up to Sony anymore. But they're doing well enough to bring out a couple more devices, so I highly doubt the Scorpio will be the end. If anything, the Scorpio could be their new beginning, provided they tick all the boxes that they missed with the One...

And as a matter of fact, if Sony doesn't counter the Scorpio with something of their own (and the PS4 Pro has already shown it's not up to that task) then it will be them that exit the console business first. There's your entry for a PS5, but I still don't see that happening, and certainly not in the same time frame as the Scorpio, because like I mentioned before, the PS4 Pro needs to run its natural course, and that isn't going to be just 2 years.

Or they must also go sideways, like Nintendo has. Except lateral thinking has never been and probably never will be Sony's strength...

@ThanosReXXX "a Switch without Joy-Cons to be a Mini..."

A Switch w/o Joycons is a tablet. A Switch w/ built on controls is a SwitchBoy.

I haven't seen a game yet that can't be played w/ a Switch Mini as in tabletop mode you can use either additionally purchased Joycon or a Pro controller. Same for the dock, not a single game requires it to be played.

I will say I never expect them to sell Switch as a tablet, there's nothing to be gained w/ that, only lost, but w/o the dock or the Grip seems like a no brainer in Japan if only to sell it cheaper, 24,500 Yen rather than 29,800. Maybe 19,800 holiday 2018 after 3DS goes away. Anybody who wants a dock can always buy it later, same for the Grip, their choice, normal for $15 or Charger for $30.

@rjejr As for that resolution difference on the small screen: I was talking ONLY about 720p/1080p comparisons on small screens and people claiming to clearly see that, not talking about difference between small screen and TV, because of course that is going to be more pronounced, since you're displaying a system that's less powerful on a big screen.

But it isn't going to be as big of a difference in games where developers try. Dragon Quest Heroes seems to be a bad example, but the X1 is definitely capable of much more than that, so it's not the Switch "not even trying", it's the developers, probably having upscaled the 3DS version to HD, from the looks of it.

And yes, that's possible. Just look up "Citra emulator" on Google or YouTube and see how good 3DS games can actually look once upscaled. And this comparison you posted, looks just like that.

So, like you also already kind of proved with the Skylanders example, it's up to the developers to make something of it, and the engine compatibility makes it entirely possible.

However, it will (once again) be Nintendo themselves getting the most out of the hardware, putting other games thoroughly to shame for not making the effort, or not enough effort.

I believe you've already seen me post those comparison videos in several articles, and even side by side with PS4 and PC versions, that Nvidia demo on X1 didn't look dramatically lesser than the other two. Differences were definitely there, but just nothing to write home or truly complain about, so there's no reason for any developer to be negligent about that, because the hardware and the power is there to get close enough to "the big guys".

And those videos were about the standard version of the X1, and the Switch contains a custom one, so I definitely expect it to be able to do more.

And seeing as you're also something of a tech nut (if recent comments are to believed, your entire household is ), you might be interested in this 4 page in-depth article about the original chipset and learn what it is ACTUALLY capable off, and then translate that to 2017 and the custom version of that chipset in the Switch:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-tegra-x1&num=1

@rjejr Partially agreed on your comment #186, but ONLY if we drop TV display ENTIRELY, and then we come back around once again to lower resolution and frame rate, or (in case of NOT having that TV option removed) overheating problems for a dockless Switch being displayed on the TV, and the optional gimmick/cable/doohickey needed for that.

@ThanosReXXX "even after they confirmed the Switch version, which I always said they would"

I'm still waiting for a disc to go w/ this box art.

@rjejr "Is a tablet", "is a Switchboy"

You sure are throwing them alternative facts around...
Switchboy would only be called such, if the screen would be rotated to portrait mode with the controls once again on either side. A Nintendo "something" Boy has ALWAYS been in portrait mode, so I would actually be curious how that would pan out.

But it isn't going to. No mini, no Boy, no smaller, more powerful Switch. The screen is already of a size that is in the middling area, so to make that even smaller would be a loss and probably won't be popular with most people who would by then already be familiar with the original Switch.

As for that box art, I was ONLY talking about Yooka-Laylee. I know that's not your favorite topic, but no amount of moving the goal posts is going to change that fact.

And actually, I already corrected myself on the probable faith of that game some time ago, but you apparently missed that comment...

@ThanosReXXX SWitchBoy would be promoted that there is no TV out just like 2DS advertises no 3D on 3DS games. Just like Wii Mini advertised no internet. Well actually I don't recall them ever announcing that, just bundling it w/ Mario Kart Wii and it's online racing.

SwitchBoy is for kids to replace their 2DS. It's not meant to be put on the TV where the PS4 and normal Switch are, its just a cheap non-TV out handheld for kids.

"A Nintendo "something" Boy has ALWAYS been in portrait mode,"

I think 9 out of 10 people would say this Gameboy is landscape mode, not portrait.

@rjejr Please take care to note that I SPECIFICALLY said a Nintendo "something" Boy, NOT a Nintendo "something" Boy "something"...

Aw, what the hell: you got me there, Lord Grey locks...
Well played... (tips hat)

@rjejr By the way: I still got one of those original GBA's, the transparent purple one, still in mint condition, since I hardly ever used it anymore after having bought a GBA SP...

@ThanosReXXX I owned a white GBA for about 3 months before I quit my job and traded it in. I picked this color scheme though b/c I thought it looked the most Switch like.

And since you've been such a good sport, what is it 3AM over there? Go to bed man!, I'm going to start calling my imaginary future handheld only gaming console the SwitchBoyAdvance. SBA for short, I ain't typing all that again.

@rjejr Nàh, it's about 6 hours later than your whereabouts, so it's now exactly 2:45am. And it's weekend, so no need for me to hit the sack just yet...

I'm staying well away of Thomas's latest article, though. As a fellow IT guy, I can understand his frustration at people abusing a (for insiders) known and clearly defined term for their own benefit (or probably lack of more fitting words) because they don't know the actual meaning of the word, and I'm not about to jump into a useless string of arguments with all the dumb people persisting that it IS a soft launch...

@rjejr You should give that article that I linked to in comment #187 a read whenever you've got a few minutes left, it's really quite enlightening and reassuring towards the Switch's future.

Provided of course that Nintendo also does its job advertising and selling the damn thing...

@rjejr Wow, even the most completely non-technical people I know just say "tablet" - you know some strange folks Or maybe it's an NY thing after all....Apple pretty much owns that city after all! At least near the hipster observation points.

iPod....technically Jobs said it best....it's a weird product to define but it's an "iPhone without the phone" - hard to call it a tablet since in form factor, design, layout, etc, it's actually a phone...it just has no SIM or cell radio. Back in the day they pretty much were identical with the prior model phone...not sure if they still are or not. They seem to have almost abandoned the touch. So, odd product though it is, I'm more comfortable with that original definition....it really is a phone without the phone. (Meanwhile lots of tablets have cell radios, but can't dial.)

It's hard pinpointing crossover devices. Or hybrids, as it were. iPod Touch is more of a tablet than Switch will ever be, that's for sure. But it's truly mostly a phone inside (tablets are more powerful usually.) Though when iPad first came out it was mocked as a giant iPhone (queue memes of 80's brick phones.) And it kind of is.

I think rather than industry definition consumer definition really has to take hold, and that seems to involve form factor + functionality. iPod Touch and tablet are same functionality but different form factor. Switch is same form factor (in some modes) but radically unrelated functionality. I suppose with flexible definitions there's never really an answer to be had, if we're not referencing what consumers see these things as and what they think when they walk into a Best Buy and go for the tablets or games sections.

@ThanosReXXX "Provided of course that Nintendo also does its job advertising and selling the damn thing..."

Yeah, see, thats were my negativity comes into play.

Switch is garbage, nobody is going to buy it for $300.

Or.

Switch is a great bargain at $300, 5 million people are going to want Zelda at launch, Nintneod is selling 2 million in March and 1 million per month in April, May, June by which point people just buy a PS4 and Horizon Zero Dawn. (Well everyone but you.)

Or.

Great 90 second commercial showing hipsters having fun w/ the Switch. Only hipsters won't buy it b/c they all have iPads, the gamers who want it aren't in the vid.

Odds are always against everything going well in life, but Nitneod makes it so easy to bet against them. Not root, bet, I'm not a hater, just observational.

@NEStalgia ""iPhone without the phone""

I guess we can wait to see if people start referring to Switch as "a tablet w/o an app store". I think that's the most likely put down. Maybe "a tablet w/ Wiimotes" if things are going well.

And yeah, I think Apple and NY are intertwined, it is called "the Big Apple" after all.

@rjejr Hah! I don't think anyone will buy these as a tablet. Maybe where you are, where spiral notebooks are called iPads But not anywhere else!

Tablet with wiimotes....that might take off, though! It's kind of what it is in a way. And since no other tablet can have proper Wiimotes, I might give you a pass on that one!

@rjejr "Garbage or bargain"

Switch is neither. You'll definitely NEVER hear me say that it's a bargain, but I honestly DO believe that it's worth it's price point, for multiple reasons, the majority of them involving the different possibilities of play that none of the other two offer, and like it or not or believe it or not, Nintendo's own IP's still have some decent pulling power of their own regardless of what populists or haters say.

PS4 and Xbox One are nice, but are ultimately just samey boxes, doing the same stuff they already did 2 generations ago, except with much nicer graphics and with more apps every following generation.

To me, that gets stale very soon. I'll probably still buy an Xbox One somewhere this year, because I've been collecting all these games for it through my Xbox Live subscription on my Xbox 360, and most of my friends also own one, and they've been on my case for a while now to come join them, so there's that.

No Sony device will ever cross this doorstep, unless it's bashed, broken or burning. They've screwed me over 3 times, and in the time-honored rules of the game, three strikes is out, in their case for good. No hate, I'm beyond that, but I'm just through with them.

And that latest Switch commercial wasn't with hipsters: half of them had no hipster beard or clothes to speak of...

It's millennials they were focusing on, although I personally think that this is both good and bad. Good, because it makes the picture clear that it's cool to still have such a device at a certain age, and bad because it possibly excludes a whole lot of other groups that may very well be interested in the Switch as well.

P.S.
Quick question for you as one of the resident toys to life experts here: would you, in all honesty, still recommend the Disney Infinity 3.0 Star Wars starter pack for the Wii U to me, considering that Disney dropped support altogether? I've got an option to buy one for €28/$30,20 and there's also the DI 2.0 Marvel Super Heroes starter kit for the same price, and the Disney Infinity 2.0 Toy Box Combo Pack for €18/$19,41.

Are any of these still worth getting in your opinion or not?

@rjejr P.P.S. Horizon - Zero Dawn, the wannabe and/or poor man's Zelda. Never going to win from the actual thing, although Sony's rep did think it would be a great alternative for people that are looking for that kind of game on the PS4.

I honestly don't see any big similarities nor is it anywhere near of being in the same league history or scope-wise...

It's just an open world game with people thrown back to the late stone age fighting mechanical dinosaurs. Yep, totally a good replacement for Zelda.

I would be having split sides from laughing if I didn't think it was so absurd to even think they could compare the two. It's just sad and pathetic...

@ThanosReXXX Good news, after several hours I'm down to 117 email. All from NL. I think half of them are from you.

I'm too tired to find it right now, but there's a vid from H:ZD w/ the girl riding a bull thing fighting a Corrupter that looks like the original trailer of Link on Epona fighting the Guardian. Anybody watching those 2 short scenes back-to-back would think Zelda is a cartoon version of H:ZD.

Not sure which will be better, but the similarities are there plain as day for anybody to see.

@rjejr Only cosmetic and superficial similarities, my friend. No substantial ones and no story that even remotely compares to speak of. I'd say that most people comparing the two and agreeing they are more or less the same, are ill-informed on what the Legend of Zelda is about. If we're going to go that route, then I can find tons of similarities in a dozen other games as well, even though they too aren't really the same...

You're not going to convince me otherwise, so I'd say let's move on to the next topic that actually does interest me...

@ThanosReXXX "and like it or not or believe it or not, Nintendo's own IP's still have some decent pulling power of their own regardless of what populists or haters say"

Then why did $299 Wii U with Nintneod IP MK8, SSB, Pikmin 3, Yoshi Wooly World, and SM3DW only sell 13 million. That doesn't sound like "decent pulling power" "of their own" to me. It sounds like great Nintneod IP were on a console hardly anybody bought b/c it didn't have other games people wanted on it.

"To me, that gets stale very soon."

Well to you it gets stale, but PS4 has already sold over 50 million in 3 years, Wii U and it's great IP sold 13 million. You'll never get a Sony console, I'll never get an MS console, you and I are far from the typical male gamer 15 - 35. Well you're a lot closer than I am but how many people besides you bought a Wii U in the past 2 months?

Hipsters, millennials, LGBTQH, they're all the same to me. Where's the actual dirty smelly fat gamer guys playing games?

Disney Infinity has always been tricky for me. We got the first game as a free download on Wii U - might still be there if you look for it. Got the 2nd game w/ my 2nd PS3. Bought DI 3 piecemeal I think, as a $20 download on PS3 and then a few packs here and there. I played Toy Story and Lone Ranger w/ my kid, Star Wars "Last Hope" (different name in game) and some of Pirates of the Caribbean w/ my wife. And did all 3 of the hub worlds which are pretty lame. I think we own almost every Marvel set and the boys played a few but they were never any fun. Bought the "Battlegrounds" or something 4 player but couldn't really get into that either.

So as you can probably tell can't recommend it. There was always something just off w/ all of it. Not as good as a real videogame, not as fun as a Lego game. We have most of the Lego games, kids like those. Lego City Undercover was really good for $20 and about 20 hours. BTW that's not just me being negative, Skylanders is better than it should be, except racing that just sucked, Lego games are fun, but as much as I wanted DI and kept buying all the sets - I still want the Dory set and Nemo just b/c - the games never won me over. Kids game Spiderman Friend or Foe on PS2 and PC is better. Even Spiderman Web of Shadows on Wii, which I hated, was better. Sorry.

@rjejr No need to be sorry, since I asked your honest opinion on it. I have seen several videos of the Star Wars DI pack and it looked good and the gameplay seemed interesting to me, but watching videos is always different than actually playing in my experience, and even though those prices are okay, I still think that a miss-buy would be a waste of money that could go towards another Wii U title.

So, your recommendation would be LEGO City Undercover instead, then?

"LGBTQH"

What do the Q and H stand for?

@NEStalgia "Tablet with wiimotes"

I am really curious to see how Nintneod markets the Switch once Zelda is past its prime. As far as I can tell nothing is backwards compatible from the Wii days, so people will need extra controllers for multiplayer. Hopefully they have better games than 1 2 Switch lined up at E3 to convince everyone all of this not cheap stuff is worth it.

If I'm not blown away at E3 I could be done w/ them.

@rjejr It's rare Nintendo every blows anyone away at a single event. They prefer the long term buildup when after a few years you look back and realize the library got so massive when you weren't looking you can't possible catch up with it. Happened to me with the DS which I ignored initially. I'm expecting a GOOD E3...a solid, if predictable, bump in the announced lineup. I don't expect mind-blowing. They don't need it, they're still getting word out on what, hopefully to them, is a fast selling console, building the market, and getting it through the holidays. I expect a few good announcmentes between Nintendo and 3rd parties, good momentum to carry it through the holidays, and a "we'll announce more later in 2018." Reggie and Kimishima have both told us the goal is to string people along bit by bit rather than dump it all at once like the WiiU, so it should be easy to know what to expect and when to expect it.

Also, if you missed it, Retro was asked what they're working on. They tweeted back a picture of prime rib. That might give us a hint of what E3 will be about

The multiplayer and controllers really depends on where they go. Personally despite the expensive accessories, I don't see them putting too much effort into "multiplayer tablet mode games that require pairs of controllers." because that's kind of impractical play mode that will end up ignored. I see them putting a lot of effort into games that can be played in tablet (I'm just saying tablet mode 'cause its you! ) mode with the included split joycons. It just fits the impromptu "hey lets play a game in public and advertise for Nintendo!" thing they want to do. But that only works with control-limited games (and specifically games that don't need to go heavy on the split-screen camera work on a 6" display.)

I see them going heavy on full-on lan play, requiring two Switches, too. Triforce Heroes, Federation Force were very obvious R&D projects and consumer behavior research projects. I thought that obvious over a year ago and knew it related to NX.

Granted, 1-2-Switch is an experiment too. I'm puzzled by the Switch messaging to a degree. They're spending 50% of their marketing time on 1-2-Switch alone. They're clearly selling the idea that 1-2-Switch IS what the Switch is about. Yet it's the ONLY game of it's kind out of a whole array of core gamer games and casual-core-gamer games. So by product lineup they've lined it up for the gaming crowd, and Nintendo crowd. But marketing they're lining it up to the Wii crowd...hoping that blows up big, and then maybe end up pushing Switch as a party console again. Yet with only one game like that...that fad won't sail too far. I could be reading too much into that. The thinking could be the gaming crowd gets its news on the internet while the Wii crowd still watches tell-e-vions.

But long term I think you'll see a handful of games like Arms that benefit from dual full controls in portable/tabletop mode. But not many. I think you'll see a good array of tabletop/couch coop games that will use the separate small controllers. Only games like Splatoon can't really do that well, but keep in mind, graphically intense games like Splatoon tend not to have split-screen anyway, rendering two cameras is very hardware intensive and games like Halo that try rendering split screen end up looking awful. Ironically as a result of the controls you might see more asymmetrical multiplayer that the WiiU was supposed to have. But I think the rule will be "simpler" games will work on the two single Joycons, more complex games will require both players to have a Switch (and maybe a copy of the game) (same as the newer 3DS multiplayer games, and good old lan PC games of yore before consoles forced online matchmaking for everything...and a lot cheaper than 2 PCs and 10mbit networking at home in the late 90's when a home network was not a normal thing to have....a lot quieter too.) As a rule, any game that NEEDS both sticks for multi tend to mean they need camera controls. And any game that needs camera controls isn't a good fit for split screen 6" play, and isn't a good fit for less than powerhouse hardware when doing split screen.

I can hear the grumbling from here about the parent angle "at $300 my kids aren't each getting a Switch", which is true. But think a few years down the line, the price is dropped, Pokemon is out, and every kid that had a 3DS has a Switch. And for short term think of all us gamers that will all have Switches.

@NEStalgia " tablet (I'm just saying tablet mode 'cause its you! ) mode with the included split joycons"

That's not "tablet" mode, that's "tabletop". Though in the back seat of the car it's "sticking out on a bar" mode, but lets just stick to "tabletop" shall we. "Tablet" mode is in you hand using your fingers to touch the screen. Nobody plays any tablet games w/ their iPad propped up on a table.

As of right now we don't know about any "tablet" games, which is probably a really good thing from a marketing perspective, but they'll be announced before E3 - not at E3 that would be a disaster - and be out for the holiday. Maybe nothing knew, just ports of their current mobile games. No GPS that I'm aware of so no Pokemon Go, but this one just came out, Pokemon Duel. Which would be great for amiibo in tablet mode, only Ninteod put the NFC reader in the Joycon, not the device body, which probably rules out amiibo support for touchscreen games.

http://www.pokemon.com/us/app/pokemon-duel/

@rjejr I'm thinking a lot of the folks that are prone to agree with on on the tablet thing are including in their thinking the availability of peripheral controllers (BT based X360 clone controllers, naturally) so "tabletop" mode is the tablet mode they're most likely thinking about.

True "tablet mode" games...I'm just not sure. It depends what Nintendo allows devs to do. I'm pretty sure what they do NOT want is for Switch to be a dumping ground for mobile games...that shatters their entire market segmentation and forces them into direct competition with Apple and Google which is just about the last thing ANY company (other than Amazon) has any interest in. So I think they'll be restrictive in that regard. Though I'm not sure exactly how yet.

Their own mobile games...50/50. I can see them wanting their full library on their console. On the other hand the always online aspects on phones wouldn't work on Switch, and they seem to be leaning heavily on that. And while I'm sure Switch's store will be relatively microtransaction friendly to appeal to EA and friends, I somehow doubt the Switch will be friendly towards two-tap gacha systems. I think the interface will be too disruptive to that smooth spending process. SMR would work wonderfully as a Switch tablet game and fill a 2D mario hole. FE:H would probably be very bad, and Miitomo even worse. And FE:H could cannibalize FE2018 as well.

I think there could be overlap, but I think they will be highly selective with what they duplicate there, and they'll put lots of roadblocks up for mobile devs dumping stuff here. World of Goo is a mobile game that suits a console, but I don't think they want Gameloft dumping their clones in their store either (yes, I know Gameloft is a spinoff of Ubi.)

Tricky proposition though. Embrace the "every device" aspect, or filter content to provide an alternative.

@NEStalgia I can't imagine it would be open, but I think Ninteod has too many touchscreen games not to port some. If they weren't planning on using it, why make it touch? I'm sure a 6.2" 720p screen w/o touch would be cheaper than with touch.

Of course I'm still trying to wrap my head around no Netflix. Portable or handheld the thing has WiFi built in, has to have Netflix. Netflix doesn't make it a "Tablet", Netflix makes its an electronic device, everything has Netflix these days.

Their best timing for touchscreen games would be w/ a lower priced model aimed at kids. Kids are raised on touchscreens, I'm nto sure they know how to use physical controls, they have touch 2 months after birth.

@ThanosReXXX I think the Q is for questioning, though I've seen Rueters say it's "queer" but I'm pretty sure I'm right and they're wrong. The H is for Hetero, it's not supposed to be there, I just add it b/c I don't like being left out. I mean really if you are going to have every other letter in the alphabet, why not have an H? Isn't the world divisive enough, do we really need to divide it more? I'm all about inclusiveness, not exclusiveness.

@rjejr Questioning? One's orientation in the relationship department? Never heard of that one before. And it being queer indeed seems unlikely, since the G is already the letter for the polite version of that word, so that would be double...

P.S.
Not every device NEEDS Netflix. It's highly overrated anyways...

@rjejr Nintendo doesn't really have that many touch screen games. Most on DS/3DS don't really NEED them, and half were just there to take advantage of the newness of touch screen gaming. So we're still really looking at ports of mobile games mostly.

While I'm not sure it's a good thing that kids are being trained to poke at things with their fingers rather than use things that require coordination skills as a habit, it's sadly true. OTOH, Nintendo now has a growing presence in mobile on the devices these kids are using, and they've made no shortage of statements saying that the purpose is to introduce the brands to get people to buy the consoles. It's not a stretch for them to say "touch screens are simple games for mobile devices, and that's ok, but now you've upgraded to the real thing!" Never underestimate the marketing power of telling people they have the inferior thing and money buys them the REAL one

I'm still equally split as to how touch will go. I really can't see them doing much with the touch screen, at least not for the first few years, as that undermines everything they're positioning and advertising the Switch to be. The central pillar is that no matter how you use it, it's the same experience. Touch breaks that seamlessness and thus the central messaging of the product.

As for why they put it there....why did they put a peripheral connector on the Gamepad? Just in case they want to use it later. Also, about price, it's actually not a given that non-touch is cheaper. That used to be true, but on a 6.2" display, most of those are going to be made for GPS type devices, in-dash displays, security/HVAC control panels, etc. So if they're using an off the shelf display, they would have to search very hard NOT to find one with a digitizer....and that might cost more as a custom part. And if you've got the digitizer, might as well support it in case you ever do think of a use for it.

Mostly I see it being supported as optional controls to simplify portable mode. I can ALSO see it being used for menu control for tabletop mode where two people have the controllers, so "tap to reset" kind of deals....gives another input for operating the system without the players fighting over the controls for it. It has some possible uses beyond touch games.

I don't think I'd make a prediction yet on how they'll deal with mobile crossover to Switch. Just as many reasons to believe they might do it as to believe they might avoid it at any cost. It's equally possible they haven't yet decided what they'll do and will wait to see some real world results on that. If they're really replacing 3DS and the "dedicated handheld" with the all in one, it might pay to keep mobile as the true "handheld gaming" platform with unique games fit for mobile short play as the DS/3DS once was. 3DS really crossed past the DS gameplay type and just became a mini console on its own with full size games. Honestly, as anti-mobile gaming as I am, I could actually get behind that strategy. Switch fits MOST situations, so the mobile games might suit me well for true "play for 4 minutes" situations.

@ThanosReXXX "Not every device NEEDS Netflix. It's highly overrated anyways..."

Well not every device I suppose, only every device w/ a screen and internet access of some kind. Does iWatch have Netflix? Maybe I should amend that to say screens over 2".

"Q" apparently has been around 4 years since Jan 2013. And they replaced my H w/ an A but I am assuredly not asexual so they can keep their A and I'll keep my H.

@NEStalgia Having played Fire Emblem Hereos for about 10 minutes today I think Ntinedo SHOULD have it on Switch near day one. It's a potential money maker, and I think it's a pretty good touchscreen aka mobile aka free-to-start aka "Gatcha" game.

It's limited enough that people will still want the real thing, but god enough were people might say - well I can spend $300 on a Switch and not play FEH and SMR or get a Switch, a whole lot of other games, yet still play games I like. I'd go as far as say SMR should be $5 on Switch since people are already giving Nintendo $300 for the Switch. They already told people "no Netflix", no need to also tell them - oh, those games you like on iOS and Android, sorry you can't play those Nintendo games on your $300 Nintendo hardware.

Nintendo games SHOULD be available on Nintendo hardware.

@rjejr And there's another letter as well: apparently, there's also the M for Multisexual, if you're not fixed in your orientation, but just fall for or are interested in persons, rather than a certain type of gender. I recently learned of that myself through some late night show I watched, and it kind of baffled me.

Maybe guys like you and me are just too old and set in our ways to still be able to completely go along with all of that, I don't know...

As for Netflix, smartypants...
Obviously I specifically meant to say not every device with a screen or any type of online connectivity needs Netflix. My bad for expecting you to get that on the first try...

And it IS overrated. Used it for about a month, and cancelled it again. On a regular basis too much variety in quality (as in "bad" quality streams), idiotic rules concerning how long and when you can watch series or programs, and not nearly large enough variety to truly be able to replace regular TV or simple downloading or streaming by other means, which I use to grab the handful of series that they have that actually ARE interesting.

Other than that, I haven't missed it for a single second since I cancelled my subscription.

@rjejr Hmm, interesting thoughts. I'm still unsure myself. I actually DO like your suggestion of SMR for a heavy discount on Nintendo hardware.....I think that's a model that can go very far, like Amazon Prime for Nintendo. Buy the hardware, get access to the games cheaper! I like it...that could work.

However, I'm not quite sure if a catcha or pay to win focused game should make it to dedicated hardware. That's a model that is made for mobile, and mobile is made for it. One of the key reasons to buy the hardware is to get out of that for heavy players. I really have deep reservations about merging gatcha onto consoles...the short term win for Nintendo would be to acclimate gatchas into ALL games! The long term loss would be that the marketing power of a console will really be diminished when it's just like mobile games. It's a premium machine at a premium price for a premium experience.

What I COULD get behind is if they put FE:H on there but replaced the gatcha with something else...an in-game system to earn the orbs or something. Then the game seems shallow.

Ultimately, a game like that is designed around the gatcha, and also largely designed around Japan. Even if the gatcha is "optional" it's clear it's the central hook for long term play. Flat rate mobile games are good for consoles at a discount. BUT that also highlights how simple they are. Gatcha f2p games on consoles....still not sold. It's a slippery slope, done wrong it could pave the way to end the rationale for consoles.

@ThanosReXXX OK let's try that again. (I have half a post in the ether somewhere.)

Having Netflix is required b/c not having it on PSTV almost single handily killed that piece of junk, it's all anybody talked about. Now Switch is in a much better position, the tribrid of gaming, so maybe nobody will care about Netflix, but 3DS and Wii U both have it. I think not having NF et al, maybe I should always add in et al, no Internet or YouTube or any of that, is going to hurt. Not at launch, those 2 million will sell, but April and May after the launch hype dies down.

Is multisexual really necessary, shouldn't bi cover it all? I've seen pansexual, which I think is similar but I like it better. Sounds more like an orgy, less like a LAN party.

@rjejr I honestly have no idea what sexual orientation should cover anything, I'm just old-fashioned me. I remember the first time I saw the original abbreviation of all the orientations, that it reminded me of a lettuce, tomato and bacon sandwich...

And people can have their Netflix, and their Twitter, and their Facebook, and their Snapchat and whatever else on their console or their handheld, I couldn't care less for any of it.

And there's plenty of more people that I know that feel the same, and they're not all of the same age as me, otherwise one could think that it's an age thing.

The app will more than likely be on there, maybe not in the beginning, but like you said, even the 3DS has it, so there's no reason to not expect it on the Switch as well.

P.S.
First time I ever seen you call something Playstation related a piece of junk...

@ThanosReXXX "P.S. First time I ever seen you call something Playstation related a piece of junk..."

It might be the first piece of junk I can think of. PSPgo was really just ahead of it's time and had incredibly bad timing w/ the PSN being down for 2 months after it launched, making it a paperweight. PS 3D Display was incredibly overpriced at $500 for a 24" HD TV but it had some nice features. Wonderbook is a nice kids toy that they tried to market to adults. Move was ok, the Nav was too useless to be junk.

But PSTV - a Vita player for TV that didn't half of the Vita games b/c of lack of touchscreen, required overpriced Vita memory, streamed PS4 but only in 720p and really only works well over Ethernet, couldn't use Vita as a controller or streaming device which would have let you play ALL Vita games on the TV, and din't have most streaming apps even though it had TV in it's name. So it was a $100 set top box that didn't do TV combined w/ a Vita that din't play Vita games. It just makes no sense at all. It's a car frame and a steering wheel, no engine, no tires, no body. It was probably intended to be something really good but they stopped at the skeleton, no skin, muscle or meat. And I bought one so I get to say all that. But the worst part, the one thing it does do ok is stream from the PS4 to another TV, so if somebody is using the PS4 main tv you can play in another room. But, and this but killed it for me, even though you can stream from the PS4 you have to pick an account. So I can play b/c the PSTV is associated w/ my PSN account, but my kids can't use it, it's locked to 1 account, so it isn't a PS4 streaming device, it's a "1 account" streaming device. Very very limited piece of junk.

"lettuce, tomato and bacon sandwich" Not sure my brain is that quick, but it did take me a few years to memorize the correct order of LGBT. That's as far as I'm ever getting though, besides my unofficial H, once you get past 4 letters you're entering "everybody BUT the straights" territory, and that's getting too exclusive, less inclusive, for me. I'm ok w/ parades for a group - gay parade, Puerto Rican Day Parade, Columbus Day parade, St. Patty's Day parade, African American Day parade, but I don't want to see "all ethnic groups except for whitey" parade.

@NEStalgia "It's a slippery slope"

Nintendo has been sliding down that slope for years now, pretty sure they are already at the bottom w/ the rest of the industry.

3DS has Pokemon Rumble World where you need to buy diamonds to gt the higher level balloons. Not a touchscreen game but the gatcha is strong w/ that 1.
Pokemon Shuffle is on both 3DS and mobile and there is a gatcha element there as well.
Nintneod said no DLC was planned for SSB, now has over $100 worth of DLC.
amiibo lock parts of games behind $15 physical DLC
MK8 and Pikmin 3 had DLC, MK8 coudl almost even be called a "season pass" but they didn't call it that.
Just Nintendo being on mobile after Iwata said it would destroy the company. Hr belittled "free-to-play" as "free-to-start", he coined that term mockingly.

So, I'm really not sure there is anything that's "beneath" Nintendo anymore, they're in the bottom of the slime pool w/ the rest of them, the days of their moral highground are long past. I think "paid online" was their last difference from the others.

So since they are wallowing in the mud w/ the pids, might as well make use of the touchscreen and maybe make some more money while they are at it. But well after launch and the system is established as a gaming console, not before, don't want to tarnish the image. Even if Switch has SMR and FEH at launch I say minimize it, no TV ads, just put them on the eShop all quiet like, word will spread soon enough.

True enough, though in many ways you have to look at the situations and their other meanings versus race to the bottom pricing with Nintendo. Nintendo makes customers pay their R&D. WiiU, I still believe to be an R&D prototype for Switch. Triforce Heroes and Federation Force? R&D prototypes for Switch multiplayer. Pokemon Shuffle? R&D prototype for Nintendo's entry into mobile. Could they continue the gatcha on that on Switch? Yeah. But I think it was well disguised market research first and foremost. And to be fair, is TPC/GF, not Nintendo. Same with SSB, which is technically HAL, not Nintendo though ti's a tight partnership.

The DLC thing...yeah...they've been all over the place with that. When Directs started featuring DLC that was a low point. Though that was on the horribly failing WiiU. 3DS wasn't so subjected to it.

Iwata about mobile, when I think of the timing, notice that mobile and NX were announced together, and both were in his brief window of working between initial illness and death while he was visibly not very well. I think he personally hated mobile as much as he sounded, and resisted internal pressure for mobile. But knowing his condition, he felt the need to set things on a sustainable path just in case. In addition, "NX" at the time, being a known quantity, the idea of mobile filling the pocketable role of handheld for their software side certainly isn't coincidental.

I'm not quite ready to throw them in the pig pen yet. There are questionable practices, but each seems limited, and forward looking. We'll see how they behave on Switch to see if that was reactionary or predictionary.

Money aside, they do need to think about market segmentation. Money or not, it's not always wise to blend your distinct markets.

@rjejr Ah, yes... Sony and their proprietary memory gizmos... Never understood that and probably never will. It's obviously a profit thing for them, so THAT I can understand, but not why they would want to force that upon their user base.

And even though they're not my favorite company in the world, always useful to learn a little more about them (Sun Tzu: "Know your enemy"), so thanks for that consumer review...

As for the whole LGBT thing (we definitely went WAY off-topic with that one): I agree with you on that sentiment. Got confronted with some of it here too. As you know my current whereabouts, you may have also heard about a little something called "Gay Pride", the purpose of which I do get to some extent, but not the "pride" part.

Sexual orientation is something most of us are born with, it's no achievement or prize, so I myself as well am not "proud" to be a straight guy, I just am, and I'm fine with it. Also with being male, white, and half Dutch, half American. And I don't feel the need to walk around in a parade to show that to people...

@ThanosReXXX Do they have "proud to be American" parades over there? Maybe in 4 years, or sooner if we're lucky, when we get a new President you can start having those. I wouldn't right now though, less pride, more hide.

@rjejr No, they do have a lot of f*** Trump protests over here, so currently, I'm all Dutch in these here parts, until the dust of carpet-head's 4 year demolition derby has settled...

Head on over to the two currently hottest threads to come and have some fun with me, aaronsullivan and JaxonH. And be prepared for another wall of text in that second one from yours truly...

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/arm_confirms_that_the_nintendo_switchs_chipset_is_very_close_to_tegra_x1_spec
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/tatsumi_kimishima_outlines_his_nintendo_targets_laying_the_groundwork_for_a_successor

@ThanosReXXX You fell for the bogus hit getting chipset thread? I checked earlier last night and there were 97 comments and you weren't 1 of them, probably sleeping I suppose, so I figured you were just blowing it off.

Never even bothered w/ that other thread, but I'm sure it's fun if Jax is involved, guy has a troll bullseye on him.

And if anybody asks me, I'll tell them your Dutch. May the odds be ever in your favor.

I watched Hunger Games w/ my wife 4 years ago. It was pretty bad. Watched it last weekend w/ my kids, I was like "Wo" now this is prophetic. That woman is KellyAnne Conway. Or maybe she wants to be that woman, hard to say w/ that nutjob.

@rjejr Not so much fell for it as trying to drop some ACTUAL information in that thread instead of all the usual negative humdrum that is once again taking over, but it certainly wasn't appreciated, especially not by this JohnGrey guy, attacking me, Jax, DanteSolablood and anyone else who dares to be positive...

I also saw the first two Hunger Games movies, last year or something. Still have part one of the third movie on my media box. I actually thought they weren't that bad at all. Or at least entertaining enough to have completely watched them both...