Topic: Ubisoft ‘Big Supporters’ of Wii U

I had that same problem when I was against achievements on the Wii U.

lol. I could see if we were talking about a highly acclaimed Nintendo game here, but we're talking about Zombie U.

def of masterpiece: a supreme intellectual or artistic achievement

Expecting the majority of people to feel Zombie U encompasses that definition is.. different. There will be a handful of games that are regarded as true masterpieces amongst the majority for their time (Half Life 2, Ocarina of Time, etc.). Zombie U is not amongst those titles. lol.

The closest we've had recently would probably be The Last of Us, and objectively comparing the production value, story, voice acting, and other measurable factors is nonsensical. Since we're so bent up on people that played the game, compare the user reviews between those two games.

Saying they would objectively hurt the system is a lot different than merely saying you don't like achievement systems.

Try again.

I don't get it... aren't the "vast majority" of reviews, both User and Critic based for that game, positive?

I honestly am confused why you keep turning to the like of aggregate sites when every opinion of the game matters; yet you argue that someone's opinion does not make a difference because pf the face of these sites' results.

Like I have already explained, there is a difference between a game being good, and a game being a masterpiece.

Claiming every game is a masterpiece devalues the term and makes it meaningless. If people would like to do that, they can knock themselves out, just don't expect the majority (or for this game nearly everyone) to follow suit.

Yeah, I agree. But didn't @rallydefault also agree with you that he was just being Hyperbolic?

No, he was being sarcastic. lol. That's why he put quotes around the exact wording I used.

As long as we can all accept that a masterpiece does not have to be universally enjoyed or even liked.

@AlexSays
Well, he wasn't the one to ever call it a Masterpiece, that was @dumdum.
He was only ever calling it an amazing game... I think you two may have been arguing different things.

Sure, I don't like Ocarina of Time, I think it is one of the most boring games I have ever played. Yet, I am able to distant myself from my subjective opinion, become in touch with reality, and realize the objective vale of the game and what it did for its genre.

Not everyone is going to like every game. But if we allow every game to be regarded with such a title because a minority of people believe it to be true, there's really no point in ever defining games by that definition.

This is also reminiscent of when people were telling me The Conduit was a revolutionary game. It took two years, and then people finally agreed with me. lol

No

So maybe we should wait two years for ZombiU? I do not think ZombiU as a whole is a masterpiece but some of the mechanics, mostly the permanent death in a survival horror game, were very well done and because of those mechanics I personally hold ZombiU in high regard.

He defended and supported someone who called it a masterpiece which implying he thought it was one too.

@Def Are you implying the user reception of this game is similar to Ocarina of Time? C'mon now.. At its time the game was highly regarded by nearly everyone. That is not the case here. Expecting people to look back on this game and think of it much more highly is wishful thinking.

Just to put things in perspective, the game isn't even in the top 20 scored Wii U games. And the Wii U's library is in its infancy. Following the reasoning I've been given, there may very well be hundreds of masterpieces on the Wii U by the time this gen is over.

It happened to some of the greatest artist throughout history, it might happen with this game. I do think it is wishful thinking that ZombiU will be help with as high of regard as Half-Life 2 or many Zelda Titles but anything is possible. We will have to see where the industry goes and how different mechanics are used and improved. I think a ZombiU 2 would be closer to being regarded as a masterpiece but with Half-Life 2 being held in such high regard it has improved in the way people think of Half-Life 1.

@Def What game, in the history of video games, was widely regarded as being average (< 80) but later on recognized as being one of the best of its genre and a masterpiece by the masses?

This is wishful thinking. Saying 'well maybe later on' is just delaying the inevitable and can be said three, four, ten years from now as well. I can understand if a lot of people thought the game was amazing, but that didn't happen.

We're essentially arguing that every average game here as received by the masses can be argued as being a masterpiece, and as I said originally, that devalues the term. Then we would have to devise a new term for a genre revolutionizing or largely impactful video game, and this cycle would start all over again.

Personally a Masterpiece is a piece of Art that is timeless. No matter when it is played it is a emotional and unique experience. I believe few games do this, some examples: Half-Life 2, Legend of Zelda (NES), Bastion, Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World, DOOM, A Boy and His Blob, Star Fox Command, Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, LIT, and DLC Quest.

Fixed. People always have their own opinions, and more often then not get upset or even angry at those who don't share said opinions. Heck, that's how many wars initially start; not by religion or resources, but by simple disagreements over those factors.

No you're creating his reasoning:

He never said any of that. In fact, he never said anything more than "it was an amazing game". In fact, like Tyson said, Rallydefault never even said "It was a Masterpiece", that was dumdum. You may as well be arguing with yourself, since you're very much not arguing with RallyDefault.

Sure, you could maybe argue that he was using his opinion "It's an amazing game" as evidence that ZombiU is a masterpiece, but you could also argue that he simply mistook your stance as saying "ZombiU is not a good game", which I feel is supported by him then asking you if you've even played the game, but honestly, how do you know either way? You're certainly not asking him to extrapolate on his position, therefore engaging him in discussion, instead you've chosen to take an argumentive route, jumping to conclusions to further your own argument, or perhaps even the argument you'd like to have, since I see rallydefault has already given up.

He shared the same sentiment as earlier stated, and the references I've made to reviews have been in accordance with my reasoning as to why the game should not objectively be defined as it has been in this thread.

I've also consistently stated that the only reasoning to define the game in such a way has been that the game is amazing according to few people on this site, which opens the door for objective reasons as to why the game should be considered as such. Alas, there have been none. Leaving me to agree with my initial assessment, that this is entirely founded on one's personal belief and there's no actual reasoning as to why this is an artistic achievement worthy of special recognition.

If there is vast amounts of evidence that disprove this and support Zombie U as being a special achievement in this era of gaming, I would certainly be welcome to it. Not surprisingly though, there seems to be none in critic or user reviews leading me back to my initial point. That any game receiving this level of praise can be argued as to having been a 'masterpiece'.

lol

This got out of hand quickly. Don't you people need to eat or something at some point?

Anyway, as I believe some of my posts are the impetus of this heated discussion, many of you apparently haven't read what I actually wrote. I only ever said Zombi U, for me, was an "amazing" game. I never called it a masterpiece. I never "defended" someone else who called it a "masterpiece." That's the truth.

Sorry, @AlexSays and @Jaz007, there's really not much else to stir up here. I never said @AlexSays was wrong or incorrect for not liking the game, I said that he really couldn't offer much to a discussion of its quality because he's never even played it. That's the deal and whole deal. Take the time to look at the posts. Thanks, guys.