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Topic: What is your one most overrated and one most underrated games you've ever played?

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Buizel

@TheJGG tbf Strikers seems like it's following that structure for the first two palaces but doesn't quite...

Personally I love the Persona 5 cast, although I only have P4 for comparison. I'll admit that Haru isn't particularly strong, and Futaba is hit or miss, but otherwise I find them all too be great. And the new additions in Strikers are excellent IMO.

Persona 4's cast is just a bit more bland to me. Not incredibly keen on Yukiko, Rise or Naoto, and Teddie is more annoying than anyone in P5. Really, Chie, Kanji and Nanako/Dojima are the highlights for me.

Edited on by Buizel

Previously "timleon" and "HunterLeon"

Currently playing: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond, Shin Megami Tensei V, Ghost of Tsushima

TheJGG

@timleon Yeah me too. Haven’t played 3 so the 4 cast, which I personally think is a high bar in of itself, compares to 5. I initially didn’t like Rise but she eventually won me over thanks to the outstanding voice work by Laura Bailey. Most of her personality is the “UwU Senpai” stereotype but she unironically has a lot of charm and is fun to be around. Teddie’s a little more annoying but his deep character moments hit home for me.

Futaba’s a gamer girl with irritation factor turned up to 11. Even when you date her she still has that annoying gamer talk. So that’s why I won’t spend my entire second playthrough dating her. Or Haru seeing as how she has less personality than a particularly sadistic potato. Her acting saves her from being an unmitigated disaster.

One of Naoto’s funniest moments is when she suddenly texts you out of the blue and she’s all clingy and doubtful. She asks you in abbreviated text to ‘please respond”. Funny how a character as composed as her can have that level of.. vulnerability, perhaps?

Xenoblade Novel

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Buizel

@TheJGG Yeah Rise is probably my favourite out of the three I mentioned. Tbh I think in these kinds of games appearing late can have a massive effect. I tend to like the earlier characters simply because I've had more time to get to know them - and later characters get shafted because they have less screentime. I think this may have been especially the case for Rise and Naoto - with Persona 4 being my first Persona game, I didn't really take the time to max out their social links. That said, although I appreciate how much more screen time Haru got in P5 Strikers...she still has a personality that doesn't quite gel with me as much as the others do. And I found Yukiko to be quite similar despite her appearing through almost all of 4.

Hopefully I'll grow to appreciate Rise and Naoto a bit more in my second playthrough of 4 Golden. Not as convinced that Teddie and Yukiko will grow on me though...

Edited on by Buizel

Previously "timleon" and "HunterLeon"

Currently playing: Pokemon Brilliant Diamond, Shin Megami Tensei V, Ghost of Tsushima

Snatcher

@TheJGG LOL UwU senpai, you funny dude.

Nintendo are like woman, You love them for whats on the inside, not the outside.

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Tyranexx

@Offolsense, @TheJGG I'm a big Layton fan! I've only played the original trilogy so far, but I'm working on collecting most of the other games and am pretty close; I still only need Azran Legacy from the core series (Likely will have to get it digital). I do hope to start on Spectre's Call/Last Specter pretty soon. Unwound Future is my favorite, but you can't go wrong with any of the original three.

The series certainly has its following, but I do feel as though many overlooked it since it isn't as action-packed as other games.

And yeah, some of those chess puzzles were a bit of a pain.

Currently playing: Pokemon Shield, Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask

Switch Friend Code: SW-3478-2466-4791 | Nintendo Network ID: Zelda_By_Night

Wheeler

Valkyrie Profile 1.

Wheeler

TheJGG

@timleon The Persona games tend to have a three act formula. Act one is assembling your team, getting to know them, doing social activities, et cetera. Act two is having a complete team bonding adventure, chasing a red herring villain. Then in act three there's a massive double plot twist (in Persona 4's case it's Adachi being the villain AND the gas station employee being a f*cking god... and in Persona 5 it's Akechi being a main villain, AND Igor being a false god) and the team have to regroup, find new motivation and rediscover the reason why they're doing what they're doing, and take the final boss down.

In the first "act" getting your team together means there'll be some that just fall by the wayside personality-wise, or some that clearly exist for the sake of being a party member. In my opinion Haru falls into both categories, while Rise and Naoto don't fall into either. Rise was introduced very early on actually... and Naoto was a presence for a long time before she joined the party.

Again, in my view there's a character that's introduced early on that should have time to connect with players but doesn't. I agree, Yukiko is that person in P4, and for me in P5 it's Ann. Her personality becomes very one-dimensional after Kamoshida's Palace. One of the only lines I remember from her was when she threatens to kick Ryuji in the face when they're going through air vents. That's it.

Xenoblade Novel

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TheJGG

@Tyranexx Doesn't help that I have never played Chess in my life... you can't win chess if you haven't played it. Eh, it's a long summer. We'll just have to see.

Wish Breath of the Wild had better puzzles though. That game was very easy puzzle-wise. You could cheat so many dungeons by using the paraglider.

Xenoblade Novel

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SpringDivorce

Under-rated would be Ridge Racer Unbounded. An absolutely brilliant arcade racer, undairly maligned because of the title it carried. No, it wasn't a Ridge Racer - it was Flatout: Street, and it was superb.

Over-rated... any Elder Scrolls / Fallout game. I don't get the point of such large open worlds when most of the content is endlessly copied and pasted. BotW is also edging into that category for me.

SpringDivorce

Tyranexx

@TheJGG I knew the basics of chess before dealing with those puzzles, so that wasn't a huge hurdle in my case. I've never actively played the game outside of digital settings, though.

While I like Shrines in BotW, the vast majority of them are very simplistic compared to actual dungeons in the series. The Divine Beasts were meant as an alternative to dungeons I think, but I wouldn't consider them proper ones. The only Shrine that felt close to dungeon material was the layout of one I found not far from Hyrule Castle; THAT one took me a bit to solve and had several rooms. Though I wouldn't call it the most difficult Shrine.

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Matt_Barber

It's pretty obvious that when a typical Zelda game has around seven to twelve dungeons and Breath of the Wild has 120 shrines (plus 12 in the DLC), 4 divine beasts, Hyrule Castle, the Trial of the Sword, and the Final Trial it's going to have to spread the puzzles a bit thinner throughout.

Certainly, if you set the exchange rate at 12:1 it doesn't seem to be doing badly, even with all the shrines that are just rewards, combat trials or single-room puzzles.

On the other hand, those motion control puzzles are evil. Even Skyward Sword's worst moments in that department don't seem as bad.

Matt_Barber

Euler

Matt_Barber wrote:

On the other hand, those motion control puzzles are evil. Even Skyward Sword's worst moments in that department don't seem as bad.

Problem with those is that Breath of the Wild was developed as a Wii (U) game, but the Switch’s motion controls are vestigial at best.

Euler

Tyranexx

Matt_Barber wrote:

On the other hand, those motion control puzzles are evil. Even Skyward Sword's worst moments in that department don't seem as bad.

I cheesed my way through a couple of those thanks to ye olde physics engine. I actually didn't mind them as much as the golf-like ones.

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TheJGG

@Tyranexx My problem with the shrines is not the fact that they exist but more… the sheer inconsistency of quality. Forty two shrines are copy and paste blessing shrines with a treasure chest. That’s it. Another few dozen are tests of strength, some of which are okay but others a complete waste of time.

And the actual puzzle ones have their own subcategories; the ones you can abuse the game’s physics to cheese, or the actual good ones. Do you know the shrine on the crab shaped island in the lava pool area around Death Mountain? That took me about fifteen minutes to solve; ie, the same time it took for me to beat a Divine Beast. If you had the same quality of shrines throughout I’d appreciate the design choice much more…

I’d say Breath of the Wild has six dungeons, plus a mini dungeon, and the Trial of the Sword. Not bad numbers but Majora’s Mask has absolutely massive dungeons. Same with Twilight Princess.

That’s partly why I’m so excited for Skyward Sword HD, and why I’d like to see past Zelda games on Switch. Dungeons.

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Dogorilla

I don't have a problem with the blessing shrines because in those cases the puzzle is working out how to enter the shrine in the first place. Even though the interiors are pretty much the same it gives it more variety than just solving puzzles within the shrines themselves. The combat ones get old pretty quickly though, I agree with that.

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Tyranexx

Dogorilla wrote:

I don't have a problem with the blessing shrines because in those cases the puzzle is working out how to enter the shrine in the first place.

Same here. Most of these had a sort of quest or puzzle to work out beforehand. Though ironically I stumbled across one or two before the actual quest itself. XD

Likewise, I agree that the combat shrines got old after awhile. Though some of the rewards were decent. I do agree with @TheJGG on the overall inconsistency between the Shrines however. In my case it's a small gripe regarding what's still a very good game.

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TheJGG

@Dogorilla I agree, about half of them have a trial of sorts in the environment like a labyrinth island or a quest, but there’s a few that just… sit there waiting to be discovered out in the open. Or rather some that are much easier to find than others despite offering the same reward.

One potential solution to the shrine problem @Tyranexx is to make twelve to twenty shrines… or maybe thirty… wherein each one offers a full Heart Container or a 1/5 increase of the Stamina gauge. The shrines can be considered mini dungeons instead of two minute chores, and they offer an instant reward instead of accumulating Spirit Orbs.

While this means you’d have to redesign the Great Plateau, which in my opinion is one of the best tutorial/starting areas ever, the payoff means you have more focused optional dungeons. Or maybe, just keep the starting area the same with the shrines, but after you leave make it clear that those were small.

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Tyranexx

@TheJGG I like the idea of keeping the Great Plateau the same regarding Shrines (Agreed that it's one of the best video game starting areas!). I do also like the idea of cutting down on the number of Shrines and making them both longer and have more of a reward/focus. I really liked collecting spirit orbs at first, but they get pretty samey after running through about half the Shrines.

Granted, maybe we're in the minority when it comes to this idea. Don't get me wrong, BotW does so many things right and is one of my favorite Zelda titles. But I won't lie when I say the Shrines and Divine beasts were a bit of a letdown when compared to some of the better designed dungeons in previous entries. Here's to hoping the sequel strikes a happy balance.

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TheJGG

@Tyranexx I wouldn’t say I’m hating on the game, far from it. I like doing this with all of my favourite stuff, so it can be interpreted as a mark of admiration and respect that I see potential for improvement. Crawling through the Ocarina of Time dungeons, masters of atmosphere and theme, the Twilight Princess mazes, with clever puzzles, and Skyward Sword’s intricate puzzle boxes, with awesome mechanics and concepts, makes me very interested to see how dungeons will evolve now.

The Divine Beasts were indeed very easy. The thing that bugs me the most about them is not that they’re easy but that when finishing them I don’t have any sense of accomplishment or pride. Instead it’s just relief that another chore is behind me. Some of the puzzles were fun but that’s all they were; fun. I don’t think this was done on purpose; the massive freedom in the game means creating puzzles with one solution hampers them creatively. You can abuse the physics to get to an area, or use the runes to cheat. The Wii-era puzzles were so challenging because of the limited move set compared to Breath of the Wild.

The Shrines can solve this, and in the game feel chore like too. In either case I’m very excited for Skyward Sword, I think I’m going to enjoy the dungeons a lot more than I did Breath of the Wild’s.

Xenoblade Novel

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Tyranexx

@TheJGG I didn't take it to mean you hated the game - I'm pretty sure you love it, based off of previous discussions - just that there's a little room for improvement. Which I do agree with. No game is truly perfect, after all.

I liked most of the Divine Beasts, but I'm really glad I left Vah Naboris for last; I found that one frustrating to get through due to the rotating sections. Though to be fair, the evening where I went through most of it was after a crazy work day, so I was already mentally baked lol. The others were pretty easy, though I admittedly cheated on the wing sections of Vah Medoh a bit thanks to the physics you mention. Instead of being proud for my accomplishments, I was just glad to be through with them.

For the most part, Skyward Sword does have better dungeons. Some of the best in the series IMO. It speaks volumes when there's a water dungeon I don't dislike.

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