Topic: What is your one most overrated and one most underrated games you've ever played?

@Offolsense, @TheJGG I'm a big Layton fan! I've only played the original trilogy so far, but I'm working on collecting most of the other games and am pretty close; I still only need Azran Legacy from the core series (Likely will have to get it digital). I do hope to start on Spectre's Call/Last Specter pretty soon. Unwound Future is my favorite, but you can't go wrong with any of the original three.

The series certainly has its following, but I do feel as though many overlooked it since it isn't as action-packed as other games.

And yeah, some of those chess puzzles were a bit of a pain.

Valkyrie Profile 1.

@timleon The Persona games tend to have a three act formula. Act one is assembling your team, getting to know them, doing social activities, et cetera. Act two is having a complete team bonding adventure, chasing a red herring villain. Then in act three there's a massive double plot twist (in Persona 4's case it's Adachi being the villain AND the gas station employee being a f*cking god... and in Persona 5 it's Akechi being a main villain, AND Igor being a false god) and the team have to regroup, find new motivation and rediscover the reason why they're doing what they're doing, and take the final boss down.

In the first "act" getting your team together means there'll be some that just fall by the wayside personality-wise, or some that clearly exist for the sake of being a party member. In my opinion Haru falls into both categories, while Rise and Naoto don't fall into either. Rise was introduced very early on actually... and Naoto was a presence for a long time before she joined the party.

Again, in my view there's a character that's introduced early on that should have time to connect with players but doesn't. I agree, Yukiko is that person in P4, and for me in P5 it's Ann. Her personality becomes very one-dimensional after Kamoshida's Palace. One of the only lines I remember from her was when she threatens to kick Ryuji in the face when they're going through air vents. That's it.

@Tyranexx Doesn't help that I have never played Chess in my life... you can't win chess if you haven't played it. Eh, it's a long summer. We'll just have to see.

Wish Breath of the Wild had better puzzles though. That game was very easy puzzle-wise. You could cheat so many dungeons by using the paraglider.

Under-rated would be Ridge Racer Unbounded. An absolutely brilliant arcade racer, undairly maligned because of the title it carried. No, it wasn't a Ridge Racer - it was Flatout: Street, and it was superb.

Over-rated... any Elder Scrolls / Fallout game. I don't get the point of such large open worlds when most of the content is endlessly copied and pasted. BotW is also edging into that category for me.

@TheJGG I knew the basics of chess before dealing with those puzzles, so that wasn't a huge hurdle in my case. I've never actively played the game outside of digital settings, though.

While I like Shrines in BotW, the vast majority of them are very simplistic compared to actual dungeons in the series. The Divine Beasts were meant as an alternative to dungeons I think, but I wouldn't consider them proper ones. The only Shrine that felt close to dungeon material was the layout of one I found not far from Hyrule Castle; THAT one took me a bit to solve and had several rooms. Though I wouldn't call it the most difficult Shrine.

It's pretty obvious that when a typical Zelda game has around seven to twelve dungeons and Breath of the Wild has 120 shrines (plus 12 in the DLC), 4 divine beasts, Hyrule Castle, the Trial of the Sword, and the Final Trial it's going to have to spread the puzzles a bit thinner throughout.

Certainly, if you set the exchange rate at 12:1 it doesn't seem to be doing badly, even with all the shrines that are just rewards, combat trials or single-room puzzles.

On the other hand, those motion control puzzles are evil. Even Skyward Sword's worst moments in that department don't seem as bad.

Problem with those is that Breath of the Wild was developed as a Wii (U) game, but the Switch’s motion controls are vestigial at best.

I cheesed my way through a couple of those thanks to ye olde physics engine. I actually didn't mind them as much as the golf-like ones.

@Tyranexx My problem with the shrines is not the fact that they exist but more… the sheer inconsistency of quality. Forty two shrines are copy and paste blessing shrines with a treasure chest. That’s it. Another few dozen are tests of strength, some of which are okay but others a complete waste of time.

And the actual puzzle ones have their own subcategories; the ones you can abuse the game’s physics to cheese, or the actual good ones. Do you know the shrine on the crab shaped island in the lava pool area around Death Mountain? That took me about fifteen minutes to solve; ie, the same time it took for me to beat a Divine Beast. If you had the same quality of shrines throughout I’d appreciate the design choice much more…

I’d say Breath of the Wild has six dungeons, plus a mini dungeon, and the Trial of the Sword. Not bad numbers but Majora’s Mask has absolutely massive dungeons. Same with Twilight Princess.

That’s partly why I’m so excited for Skyward Sword HD, and why I’d like to see past Zelda games on Switch. Dungeons.

I don't have a problem with the blessing shrines because in those cases the puzzle is working out how to enter the shrine in the first place. Even though the interiors are pretty much the same it gives it more variety than just solving puzzles within the shrines themselves. The combat ones get old pretty quickly though, I agree with that.

Same here. Most of these had a sort of quest or puzzle to work out beforehand. Though ironically I stumbled across one or two before the actual quest itself. XD

Likewise, I agree that the combat shrines got old after awhile. Though some of the rewards were decent. I do agree with @TheJGG on the overall inconsistency between the Shrines however. In my case it's a small gripe regarding what's still a very good game.

@Dogorilla I agree, about half of them have a trial of sorts in the environment like a labyrinth island or a quest, but there’s a few that just… sit there waiting to be discovered out in the open. Or rather some that are much easier to find than others despite offering the same reward.

One potential solution to the shrine problem @Tyranexx is to make twelve to twenty shrines… or maybe thirty… wherein each one offers a full Heart Container or a 1/5 increase of the Stamina gauge. The shrines can be considered mini dungeons instead of two minute chores, and they offer an instant reward instead of accumulating Spirit Orbs.

While this means you’d have to redesign the Great Plateau, which in my opinion is one of the best tutorial/starting areas ever, the payoff means you have more focused optional dungeons. Or maybe, just keep the starting area the same with the shrines, but after you leave make it clear that those were small.

@TheJGG I like the idea of keeping the Great Plateau the same regarding Shrines (Agreed that it's one of the best video game starting areas!). I do also like the idea of cutting down on the number of Shrines and making them both longer and have more of a reward/focus. I really liked collecting spirit orbs at first, but they get pretty samey after running through about half the Shrines.

Granted, maybe we're in the minority when it comes to this idea. Don't get me wrong, BotW does so many things right and is one of my favorite Zelda titles. But I won't lie when I say the Shrines and Divine beasts were a bit of a letdown when compared to some of the better designed dungeons in previous entries. Here's to hoping the sequel strikes a happy balance.

@Tyranexx I wouldn’t say I’m hating on the game, far from it. I like doing this with all of my favourite stuff, so it can be interpreted as a mark of admiration and respect that I see potential for improvement. Crawling through the Ocarina of Time dungeons, masters of atmosphere and theme, the Twilight Princess mazes, with clever puzzles, and Skyward Sword’s intricate puzzle boxes, with awesome mechanics and concepts, makes me very interested to see how dungeons will evolve now.

The Divine Beasts were indeed very easy. The thing that bugs me the most about them is not that they’re easy but that when finishing them I don’t have any sense of accomplishment or pride. Instead it’s just relief that another chore is behind me. Some of the puzzles were fun but that’s all they were; fun. I don’t think this was done on purpose; the massive freedom in the game means creating puzzles with one solution hampers them creatively. You can abuse the physics to get to an area, or use the runes to cheat. The Wii-era puzzles were so challenging because of the limited move set compared to Breath of the Wild.

The Shrines can solve this, and in the game feel chore like too. In either case I’m very excited for Skyward Sword, I think I’m going to enjoy the dungeons a lot more than I did Breath of the Wild’s.

@TheJGG I didn't take it to mean you hated the game - I'm pretty sure you love it, based off of previous discussions - just that there's a little room for improvement. Which I do agree with. No game is truly perfect, after all.

I liked most of the Divine Beasts, but I'm really glad I left Vah Naboris for last; I found that one frustrating to get through due to the rotating sections. Though to be fair, the evening where I went through most of it was after a crazy work day, so I was already mentally baked lol. The others were pretty easy, though I admittedly cheated on the wing sections of Vah Medoh a bit thanks to the physics you mention. Instead of being proud for my accomplishments, I was just glad to be through with them.

For the most part, Skyward Sword does have better dungeons. Some of the best in the series IMO. It speaks volumes when there's a water dungeon I don't dislike.

@Tyranexx It's nice to think about how games can be greater. Breath of the Wild's probably my third or fourth favourite Zelda game of all, behind Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and around Ocarina of Time. These are just the top games that warrant many playthroughs. It's a favourite, but for different reasons than the others. This was a very experimental game and I hope the sequel is more focused.

Thing is, (as one @DomGC said in another thread) the game's designed to be played in a specific way, as far as open-ended games go. It's about convenience and what's close to you. The Divine Beast order most people take is an inverted "n", so Ruta, Rudania, Medoh and then Naboris in the end. That's the order I almost always take for better or for worse! Let's be honest though, who didn't cheat at Vah Medoh? That one was begging to be cheesed...

Volumes.. ha! What a pun, you can be proud of that! The Ancient Cistern was a bloody good one, with some great Buddhist symbolism. I like that religion, if I had to choose one I'd definitely choose that. It's such a great design, the combination of holy and cursed like two sides of a Buddhist coin. That, and the Lakebed Temple are two water dungeons I legitimately enjoyed too. That one was so extensive and so well done.

@TheJGG It's really hard for me to rank my favorite Zelda games; it's easier for me to list the games I'd rank towards the bottom. Though nearly all Zelda titles are at least fairly decent.

That Divine Beast order is the one I followed and seems to be the desired order for most playthroughs. Though I've read of others really mixing things up. Vah Medoh is so easy to cheat with....Thanks physics engine!

I am proud of that pun, considering it was unintended! I was pretty tired when I wrote that one lol. The Ancient Cistern is very well designed; it's probably my second favorite dungeon in SS after the Sandship. I love the duality of the temple, how it's essentially a good/evil, heaven/hell setup.

@Tyranexx I’ve also found that it’s easier to know what you don’t like than what you do. It’ll be useful for uni applications. I’m sure that was something that helped you back in the day! Tri Force Heroes wants to have a word with you. Seriously that game felt like a parody. I hope we never get a game like that ever again.

Only time I differed from that path was when I wanted to deliberately add unknowns to my next playthrough. Otherwise I followed that original order. Bah Humbug, Vah Medoh…

Some of the best things happen when we’re tired. Not for me, I went to bed just before England scored three goals against Ukraine. I feel like a complete idiot now!

I almost forgot about how good the Sandship is! Makes me even more excited to go back and tackle actual dungeons for the first time since 2019…

@TheJGG Knowing one's dislikes definitely helps for college/uni applications and optional prerequisite classes. I wanted to like Tri Force Heroes, but....Well, I think I've went on about it at length in the Chit-Chat Thread, so I'll refrain from doing so. I'm sure my experience would've been better if I had played with anyone I knew and trusted.

Just about any area that uses the Time shift stones in Skyward Sword is a decent one in my opinion. They make for some very interesting puzzles! Lanayru Mining Facility isn't bad either. (Except for one of the Beamos sections...yuck.)