Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH Again, it's not about being able to play and enjoy Strikers without P5, my point is about desirability and appeal.

I'm sure someone could pick up Strikers without playing P5 and enjoy it. But why would they pick it up in the first place? How many people picked up Hyrule Warriors having never played a Zelda game? How many picked up Fire Emblem Warriors having never played Fire Emblem? Unless you already have a desire to get into the Persona franchise, or are otherwise mad into musou games, why would you pick up a Persona musou spin-off? And even if P5S is considered a gateway to the rest of the series...Switch owners are locked out of the series if they do not own a Playstation anyway.

I very much disagree that it's like The Simpsons. The Simpsons as a sitcom is very character-driven, yes, but episodes are generally designed to have little continuity and character development so that you can step in and out at any point. The story of P5S may well stand on its own, but a key driver of the Persona series is developing your relationships with the characters. I'm sure P5S will do this well, but a newcomer will always miss the origin story of these characters.

I don't think you need to be familiar with P5, but it certainly would help.

So, how many people had played Witcher 1, which is only on PC & only works with kb/m input? Or even 2, which was on PC & XBox 360? Quite a few who got Witcher 3 on PS4 hadn't played the series before that! I'm sure plenty who got Switch version hadn't played either of the others

@timleon
Hyrule Warriors (the first) was just a Warriors game with Zelda skins. There wasn’t much there for someone who wasn’t a fan of Zelda or a fan of Warriors games. The second was filling backstory to BotW, which caters towards breath of the wild fans specifically.

Persona 5 Strikers falls into neither of those categories. It’s not just a Warriors game with Persona skins. Neither is it filling in some crucial backstory. It’s actually structured like a Persona game, so it caters towards BOTH those who have played Persona, but also those who are interested in experiencing a Persona game (which judging by comments, is a large percentage of the Switch fanbase, or at least, so they claim).

Even if switch only gamers are locked out of other games in the series, it doesn’t negate the amazing experience they’ll have with this particular game. Saying “if I can’t enjoy every game in the series I’m not going to enjoy any game in the series“ isn’t a logical strategy. How many people skipped breath of the wild because they were “locked out” of every other Zelda game ever made? Again, these are artificial constructions only being applied to this particular game and not to any other.

Of course a newcomer to P5S would miss the origin story of these characters. But this goes right back to the argument of, “if I can’t play every game in a series, I don’t want to play any game in the series“ which is absolutely ludicrous. Play and enjoy what you can now, and if another game comes along down the line, then enjoy that one at that time. It’s almost like saying, “if I don’t win the lottery, I don’t even want my job or house! I’ll sleep on the streets!” That doesn’t make any sense. Enjoy your house and job that you have, and IF something else comes along, enjoy that too. But don’t let the absence of some other thing take away from the enjoyment of this thing now. Experiencing the “origin of the characters” isn’t required to enjoy a game with said characters. It’s awesome if you do experience it, and I would encourage anyone who is able to do so- not because it’s particularly relevant with Strikers, but because it’s just a good game in its own right, but if you can’t, that’s by no means a reason to deprive yourself of this amazing game.

You don’t see PC gamers using such a rationale to not play P5S. Neither do you see Switch gamers rationalizing to not play other games like Witcher 3. Yet for some reason, when it comes to this particular game on this particular platform, all of a sudden people are rummaging through the excuse box to justify ignoring it. Which almost makes me think people never actually cared about the franchise in the first place, and just wanted bragging rights of having it on their platform, without any real intentions of actually engaging with and playing the series.

@JaxonH I think these are false equivalencies. Let's not forget that P5S is a spin-off. Playing Breath of the Wild without playing other Zelda games is more akin to playing Persona 5 without Persona 4. Playing P5S without playing Persona 5 is akin to playing Age of Calamity without Breath of the Wild - the former of which, as you outline, is catered specifically to fans of the latter.

Also I think The Witcher 3 is (i) exceptional because it was a game of massive critical acclaim, considered one of the best games of its generation so many were willing to overlook that they'd not played the first two games, (ii) not so relevant here because it's not a spin-off, and rather an evolution on the existing gameplay of previous Witcher games.

To be honest, I don't think it's impossible for someone to enjoy P5S without playing Persona 5, or for a newcomer to use it as a gateway to the Persona series. My point is more that by releasing P5S without P5 on the Switch, Atlus really aren't doing themselves or potential fans a favour and they shouldn't be surprised if the Switch release of P5S does poorly.

OK but the whole Persona series is a spin-off from the SMT ones... So, you can't play the former without the latter?

@BruceCM Thanks for pointing out the irony in this conversation

I've honestly not played any SMT but I think it's probably safe to say that Persona has come into it's own over the years. They've even dropped "SMT" from the title.

@timleon
I agree Atlus would be better served by releasing P5 on Switch, but my point is that their decision not to shouldn’t really have much effect on this game, just as it’s not really having much effect on PC.

I thought it was obvious that Persona 5 Strikers would flop on the Switch because Persona 5 didn't come to Switch but also Age of Calamity is a factor. Both Age of Calamity and Persona 5 Strikers are Warriors games releasing 3 months apart with Age of Calamity marketed as a BotW prequel and Persona 5 Strikers marketed as a Persona 5 sequel. Switch owners are much more likely to pick up Age of Calamity because they've played BotW but not Persona 5.

PC is probably less affected as PC players are more likely to also have a PS4 given it was only recently that Sony started putting their exclusives on PC.

Honestly, I personally would've rather had a mainline come over first, even if its an older title to see what the series is like first. I'll probably hold off on 5S for a while or until there's a sale. I'm more into 3d world, bravely default II, MH rise, ghosts and goblins resurrection..not to mention I've still yet to grab copies of doom eternal, and more importantly, fenyx rising and AoC. The latter two most important before the rest. So persona 5S can wait until I'm thru those.

@Grumblevolcano I agree with the potential for musou weariness in light of Age of Calamity (the thought has occurred to me as well), but I'm curious why you think PC gamers would be more likely to have Playstation consoles? If anything, I'd think the opposite is true: hardcore PC gamers have access to the vast, vast majority of AAA titles on the market, whereas Nintendo-only owners, I think, are used to having to buy a secondary console to play all of the non-Nintendo stuff they want. That has changed a bit with the Switch, but you still need a PC or power console to play the majority of AAA releases on the market. And especially now with Sony releasing some of their AAA releases on PC, there's very little incentive for PC gamers to buy consoles. If anything, the PC gamers I've known really only bought Nintendo handhelds and played everything else on their rigs.

@NintendoByNature We certainly are spoilt for choice right now.

Well, if Catherine and Tokyo Mirage are anything to go by, Strikers should go on sale for pretty cheap within the year.

@timleon Any interest in Nocturne HD or SMT V next year?

@Ralizah oh for sure we do. 2021 should (or could) be a repeat of 2019. Looking forward to it.

@Ralizah If I'm to get into the other SMT games, I suppose that's where I'll start. Although I do wonder if I'll be as into SMT as I am Persona - tbh I think the life sim aspect is a large part of what draws me in. But I do like JRPGs more generally so they're definitely on my radar.

@Ralizah I was on about the window before Sony started putting their exclusives on PC, there was a 2 year gap between Persona 5 release and that happening. Exclusives used to be a big reason to get PS/Xbox but nowadays if you play on PC you may as well just have PC and Switch with Xbox exclusives on PC and Sony exclusives being a case of if you wait long enough there'll be a PC port.

While Persona 5 Strikers is more of a Persona game with Warriors-style real time combat for encounters rather than turn based encounters, there could still be fatigue from Hyrule Warriors overlap. That said, if I had to pick one or the other to play, I’d pick Persona 5 Strikers. Simply because HW is still a Warriors game at its core. It’s set in the Zelda BotW universe and focuses on backstory, but it’s still a Warriors game. P5S bares little resemblance to Warriors style games. It does not follow the mousou (can never spell that right) formula.

But... ya, there’s tons of great games coming out in a one month window from mid February to late March.

February
Persona 5 Strikers
Bravely Default 2
Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury
March
Monster Hunter Rise

All of them hype, all of them worth picking up. But as soon as Monster Hunter Rise drops, it’s a wrap. Everything else goes immediately into backlog. I’ve never been this excited for a video game in my entire life. The hype is so real I must have watched that Game Awards trailer 30 times now.

Thinking about it, there's a better explanation for why Persona 5 Strikers is doing fine on PC. While they don't have Persona 5 yet, they do have main series Persona in the form of Persona 4 Golden so it's very likely other main series Persona games make the jump to PC as part of the Persona 25th anniversary celebrations.

Hahaha, you're overthinking so much with Strikers doing well on PC.

Looks like the Monster Hunter Rise hype cycle has officially begun.

They hit us with a gorgeous new trailer, announced a demo, and now they’re starting to showcase the different weapon types.

Dual Blades

Bow

@JaxonH
Wow, that was a Giant size bow. 😮

Well, not ALL PS exclusives are going to come to PC ever, @Grumblevolcano .... For instance, The Last of Us isn't showing any signs of doing so & that came out on PS3 originally! I'm sure there's plenty more but that's one I'd get eventually if it did come to Steam

@BruceCM It's more about Sony giving the signal to PC players to wait. So not much different from how there's no evidence of Crash 4 coming to Switch but the fact Crash Trilogy and Spyro Trilogy both came to Switch a year after the original release means it's a reasonable strategy to think Crash 4 will come to Switch around summer/fall 2021.