Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH
Yea, I think that sums it up nicely. I said in another thread: the power race is nearly over. They're nearly at the brick wall of extreme diminishing returns. Tech has progressed so much that even a "low-powered" console like the Switch can easily play previous gen games AND even handle some current-gen AAA multi-platform games decently. The fact that the Switch is a home AND portable console give it that leg up for all but the most graphics-oriented consumer.

For me, if the gameplay, game modes, DLC, etc. are all the same aside from a hit in graphics, I'll take the hit in graphics every time to have the option of portability when I need it. It's only a matter of time until we have smart phones just as powerful as current PS4s and Xbox Ones (if we don't already). The power thing is a dead horse. We've reached pretty much all the power we need (though I will make concession for continuing improvements in AI).

I kind of laugh because even with this glut of power we've supposedly seen this gen with the PS4 Pro and One X, have the games truly blown us away? Have we really experienced anything earth shattering that just wasn't possible a generation before? I would answer distinctly: no. I could maybe see some arguments from people who get really deep into the cinematic games or open-world games, but I'll say that I've had better gameplay and better stories from previous gens of consoles than this one. For me, this gen from Sony and MS was entirely disappointing. The Switch is pretty much what preserved this hobby for me for the last few years. Without it, I'd probably just be playing WoW every now and then and calling it a day.

@rallydefault I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I've been looking for a rally game on the switch. And I keep wondering why the graphics look so bad. Then I looked up ps3 and 360 graphics and I realized that there just has been a huge jump in power. Dirt 2.0, or forza 7 are huge jumps vs last gens forza 4 and dirt. I'm sure other game genres have had similar bumps but I tend to play racers. We get so used to new tech that we think it's not as big as an improvement as it really is. But look at old YouTube games and there's a huge difference.

@sixrings
Yea, I think we're looking for entirely different things. (For one, I hate racing games lol)

I was never a big graphics guy. I care about power for the sake of other things like artificial intelligence and systems that can lead to more complex gameplay. But yea. I played DOOM on Switch and my PC, for example. I ended up playing it MORE on my Switch, even with the severely downgraded graphics. Seriously - I'll be the first to admit those graphics were ultra muddy on Switch. But the portability outweighed that con. I ended up playing DOOM mostly in bed lol

If I didn't know any better, I'd say the Switch is probably the totally wrong console for you. You don't seem happy with the game prices AND you seem upset with the graphics quality for some games. You probably want to do most of your gaming elsewhere if those are two of your most important gaming criteria. PC sounds perfect for you, to be honest. Cheap games and limitless power constrained only by your budget. You could even use all sorts of accessories like racing wheels and stuff if you're seriously into racing games.

@rallydefault the system itself it not the right system for me. I do want power. On the other hand I am completely happy when I get a 1080p 60fps Nintendo first party game like Arms, Kart, Smash, Mario Deluxe, DKTF. The problem is more than half of Nintendo games either aren't 1080p or are less than 60fps. I can play third party games elsewhere but xbox nor ps will ever fill my Nintendo gameplay void. All I wish for is a pro console which would change the dynamic resolution games from 900p to 1080p while increasing the frame rates. Yet so many Nintendo fans are against a pro model because they will be left out. Choice isn't a good thing to many Nintendo fans.

My second concern is are my games going to be able to be played via backward compatibility on the next system. The third thing I mention is the price. I'll pay anything for 1080p 60fps Nintendo games. I just grumble about the rest but then not buy them.

I know it was a long time ago but I grew up with the snes, 64, GameCube. All the most powerful consoles at their time excluding neo Geo which no one bought. I don't even care to be as powerful as a pro or a x. But can we get Nintendo off the "good enough" train and at least on par with a OG xbox.

@rallydefault I wouldn't say the battle for most powerful console is near an end, rather the noticeable impact at some point will be different. 4K/8K is whatever but we're still in a situation even for the power twins where lots of games suffer from low frame rates because of choosing higher resolution instead. When the vast majority of games end up 60fps minimum and it's not the big open world and RPGs that are below, that's when the power battle ends.

Not sure where to post this, but has anyone else noticed that inserting and removing a joycon shows the correct colour briefly on screen again? Did I miss a secret system update?

Nope, sorry, @Grumblevolcano .... They'll keep finding things to push the power up! Once everything we know about & can imagine now is done, they'll have come up with other stuff

@Grumblevolcano
Sure, we can say the next hurdle is gonna be 60fps at 4k or 8k or 12k or whatever, but I think the traditional arms race for graphics as MOST people can even distinguish (or care about) is near an end in terms of which plastic box in your home can show more shiny things. I haven't been able to tell much difference between Xbox/PS since the 360/PS3, to be honest. That's why most multi-plat AAA games are nearly identical across consoles, and MS/Sony have turned to DLC exclusivity deals to incentivize people to buy for their console rather than the competition, because otherwise the differences are negligible. Nintendo, obviously, has chosen to exit that rat race.

What I think it just beginning will be graphics/power in concern to augmented reality, virtual reality, streaming services, etc. Those things will be the new frontier within a decade.

@sixrings
No worries, man. I grew up with the NES. I know how it feels to be old lol

I agree - if Nintendo is smart, Switch will be their new ecosystem, and any future consoles will be backwards compatible. We are talking about Nintendo though lol

I'm one who believes a Switch Pro is inevitable. It just makes too much sense, especially since they've demonstrated with the Lite that they're willing to still call it a Switch without letting it switch haha But the stars also align in terms of Nintendo having a Pro system to show around E3/summer when MS and Sony will be full-on hyping their new systems. Not saying that will even hold a grain of salt in terms of power against those new machines, but it'll give Nintendo some sort of hardware to show, especially if we're heading into a holiday of BotW2 or Metroid.

Well all the demos with Ray tracing makes me totally disagree. Maybe the ps5 and Xbox series x will be just a really really big improvement but eventually we will be getting to photo like graphics. Those matter. Maybe for cartoon games it doesn't make a difference. But do I want a phot realistic sports game, racing game, cod game, mortal kombat game. It make everything more immersive. And so will many others. Yes years ago when we watched star wars we thought those special effects were great. But they are nothing in comparison to modern special effects. No great graphics will never make a bad game great. But great graphics do make good gameplay feel better. There is a segment of people whom won't care. But there will be millions who line up for a ps5 and series x.

Ray Tracing is nice in theory (and it certainly has the potential to be gorgeous as movie CGI has shown), but so far the games that have supported it on PC haven't actually looked better for it. Maybe that'll change once XBSX and PS5 are the targets on consoles and the devs are starting to design with Ray Tracing in mind, but as of now, I'm not convinced it's going to be a huge improvement any time during the next generation. Maybe by the time the PS6 and XB whatever roll around it'll have been refined enough...

I’m playing Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag on Switch right now and it looks incredible. It’s not as good looking as Odyssey, but it still looks excellent and all the gameplay systems are intact. I’m having as much if not more fun than playing Odyssey on my X1X. Only difference is, one I can play anywhere, and the other I’m stuck in one place at home.

Graphics are nice. We all like them. I don’t ever want someone to misconstrue this and think that I’m saying graphics don’t matter. Graphics are lovely. I want better graphics.

That said, graphics are abruptly hitting a point of diminishing returns. Next gen won’t feel much different than this one, and this one hasn’t felt much different than the last one- hence the mid gen refreshes. The closer we get to butting up against this limit of returns the more frequently they’re going to have to push to increase graphics.

We aren’t quite there yet, which is why right now the only reason I’m awaiting the next generation Switch is so that all the 8th gen games can run and performance can be ironed out. And I think once we get to that point where 8th gen Power comes to a hybrid system, we’re there. We’re there. I could play games with graphics of that caliber for the rest of my life and be perfectly happy. So we’re close. 5 more years and we’re there.

@ViewtifulJotun It's Switch-related, so yes, you've posted in the right thread.
I've noticed it as well. It isn't exactly the same effect though, unfortunately (in my opinion). Before, it was more like a fuzzy, colored glow, almost like coming from tube lighting, and now it is a very sharp, defined line, so they did change back the colors, but it's not the exact same original effect that we had before.

This kind of bugs me. Better technologies should EXPAND the number of possible art styles for games. But for some reason, when developers can make worlds that look however they want in any way imaginable, they choose to replicate reality.

A good example of using modern graphics technology creatively is something like Into the Spider-verse, which legitimately looks like a comic book.

@iKhan borderlands, xii, Tetris effects... there's plenty of games which use raw power to make better looking games which aren't realistic. Crash bandicoot, super lucky tale, all look better on other consoles.

I doubt the push for ray tracing is going to affect most developers unless there are certain outliers who consistently attempt to replicate realistic texturing and shading in their games, particularly developers like FromSoftware, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Activision, EA and Rockstar

I think it'll definitely open up the door to show how close we can actually get to photo realism if that in engine footage of Hellblade II on the Series X is anything to go by

Photorealism I doubt will be the norm going forward but I also eagerly await to see how much developers can leverage out of technologies such as ray tracing and machine learning

I do know for sure that visual variety will always be a thing in the games market, I wouldn't hold my breath on that just dissipating away in favor of more games that attempt to mimic reality

It's moreso about what games require that attention to detail in the first place

It's not like Arc System Works' next fighting game adapting an anime property will suddenly render the models as photorealistically as humanly possible because that just wouldn't fit

@sixrings
I prefer Cartoonish graphics with vivid color rather than OMG ultra HD realistic graphics.
Gameplay does matter for me than graphic.
Just look at FF XV case.
I didn't even like at all with OMG Ultra HD realistic graphic.
I felt even more disgusted by the ultra beefy graphics.
I'm interested more with minimalist or Cartoonish graphic like some Indie developers did and it looked more beautiful than realistic graphics.

"But great graphics do make good gameplay feel better."

Not always.
Just look at FF XIII case.

@Anti-Matter yes but you're a notorious contrarian. Cartoon graphics btw look better on other consoles. Sonic, crash, lucky all ran at 1080p or 4k with HDR!

Of course those games look better on other consoles which are more powerful. Nobody is debating that. But simply “looking better“ at the cost of extreme restrictions in how and where you can play is a poor tradeoff.

The point is they don’t look that much better. They look 95% as good and without sacrificing mobility. So it comes down to whether you want a severely crippled experience for a game that looks 5% better. Like the landline telephone, it may have better call quality and even cheaper calls, but once you use a cell phone that can be used anywhere, it’s really hard to go back. The calls may drop from time to time and it’s definitely not as clear, but the functionality of using it anywhere absolutely trumps everything else.

@JaxonH I guess I just don't game outside of the living room. So the few hours I game I'd prefer less sacrifices. I'm not taking a switch to bed with me. My wife would divorce me. I'm not commuting with the switch, I jog or drive. And I have more than one tv so I can always find a spot. So I don't know what I need the portability for. The rare times I've taken it into the hot tub is for YouTube not gaming.

@sixrings
I never said it was the best choice for you, I’m simply pointing out why it’s not the best choice for others. Just because you don’t like the flexibility of playing games anywhere other than one designated place doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with other people for not seeing things the same way.

You came in here talking about how games look “in 4K!!!” as if everyone is supposed to be astonished at that. We’ve mostly all got other consoles. We all know what games in 4K look like. It’s nice, but eh. Ain’t much different than 1080p tbh. We’re not so easily razzle dazzled by a little more visual flourish to the point we’d sacrifice popping the system out of a dock and gaming in the kitchen when cooking corn dogs, or in the recliner while a game installs for 6 hrs on the X1, or at work on our break, or at our siblings’ houses when visiting and want something to do, or passing the time at the car dealership getting oil change and tires rotated, or even just for the intimacy of gaming on a handheld screen every now and then that no console can deliver.

There are still games that greatly benefit from more power, but not because chasing reality is superior. But rather, because hybrid gaming isn’t quite yet to the level of power that any game can be scaled to run properly. Hence my comments about being close- next gen Switch should do it, and every game henceforth should be able to run and look great on a hybrid platform, all while retaining 95% of the visual appeal, as many 7th gen games (and some current gen) on Switch do now. But even now, so many games look nearly identical yet offer infinitely more ways to enjoy (and not just with respect to portability, but also gyro aiming and multiple controller options). It’s a system built on a foundation of convenience and catering to the limitations of your lifestyle. Rather than demanding you build your gaming habits around the limitations of the system.

And... nobody cares if that’s not the gaming lifestyle for you. There will always be those who only play on the TV and as such see no benefit. And that’s fine. The question is, why you’re coming into a Nintendo Switch thread to tell everyone how gaming on power consoles is so much better. It comes across as “Kneel, and know that my way is superior... 4K baby!!!”