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Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

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Haru17

martinskrtel37 wrote:

the game should do for you? lol that is sucking so much imagination out of your gaming experience that i don't even understand what you're left with - an interactive movie? production value is so far down the list of what makes a good video game - part of what made zelda brilliant is that it never relied on hollywood actors providing their voices or any of this.

how do you suppose gamers in the mid to late 80s got lost in the world of the first zelda? because it's all about imagination. you didn't need individual blades of grass in high definition to know you were in a field, the green indicated that and your imagination did the rest.

I didn't need to imagine how the Metroid Primes and the 3D Zeldas looked—I liked how they looked already. Similarly I don't look at bad drawings and 'imagine' they looked better. Production value isn't just voice acting and graphics—it's thought. The demonstrable evidence that thought and effort went into this character and story's creation. That's what makes me invest my time into your game: the good faith that you, as a creator, thought out the characters and their actions. Silent protagonists often lack both voice and thought.

Morpheel wrote:

@Haru17: that's ok too. The option is there, you can use it or not, and that's completely fine.

Though I wouldn't say I actually believe I'm the character or anything like that (not even as a child). I just like my name, and using it makes the save files "mine".

Save files are nice. Save files are one thing.

The other is when you let a glorified menu screen option invade your story, world, and writing to magically transform your protagonist into magical narrative and emotional dead weight. In every Zelda game where the story is clawing at your heart strings, desperately screaming "FEEL" SOMETHING!!!" Link is right there with his mute, emotionless face to bring you right back down.

At this point I'd be happy if they wrote his character as a mute, like, diegetically, but actually wrote and acted it. Y'know, like a thinking, feeling person.

[Edited by Haru17]

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

Kylo_Ren

Haru17 wrote:

Kylo_Ren wrote:

People hate the timeline? News to me.
Voice acting will ruin Zelda, and I don't think Aunoma will do it.

Don't listen to him: he's too busy hitting himself.

What?! Do you like to making fun out of people? Is it your highlight of your day? Shows that you are nothing more than a bully.
Should I say to everyone that expresses a different opinion, that they hit themselves, and shouldn't be listened to? No because I am better person than that.

[Edited by Kylo_Ren]

Kylo_Ren

shaneoh

Haru17 wrote:

Do you even English?

...

You don't? You don't English? Oh, good.

I'm sure the irony of that statement is lost on you (and no, I'm not talking about the bad grammar).

Haru17 wrote:

Anyway, text boxes are fine. The point is that—in a 2016+ AAA game where the story is going to be neutered anyway—everything you have to do for yourself in D&D, like role-playing your character and giving them a voice, the game should do for you. It's called production value and 'generally not being a two-cent indie game where the devs couldn't or didn't even bother to voice anyone.'

Sure, while we are at it, let's have the character complete the game on their own, devs are perfectly capable of making that happen.

Haru17 wrote:

I didn't need to imagine how the Metroid Primes and the 3D Zeldas looked—I liked how they looked already. Similarly I don't look at bad drawings and 'imagine' they looked better. Production value isn't just voice acting and graphics—it's thought. The demonstrable evidence that thought and effort went into this character and story's creation. That's what makes me invest my time into your game: the good faith that you, as a creator, thought out the characters and their actions.

As much as I try to think out MY actions, it doesn't always work, and I'll end up doing something contrary to my usual behaviour.

martinskrtel37 wrote:

how do you suppose gamers in the mid to late 80s got lost in the world of the first zelda? because it's all about imagination. you didn't need individual blades of grass in high definition to know you were in a field, the green indicated that and your imagination did the rest.

Exactly. Believe it or not, those "bad" drawings 30+ years ago, weren't recognised as bad drawings (usually), and the amount of effort to recognise a green patch of ground as grass, is no more than it takes to recognise a 3D modelled blade of grass in Skyrim. In thirty years time, people are going to perceive Skyrim's grass in much the same way as you see grass in the original Zelda now.

Haru17 wrote:

Silent protagonists often lack both voice and thought.

You seem to be under the impression that having no voice means having no personality.

Untitled

Ultimately, whatever the game, you are the character. It doesn't matter how restrictive your freedom is, it is your decisions and actions that determine an outcome for the game. Silence is for you to fill in the blanks.

The Greatest love story ever, Rosie Love (part 33 done)
The collective noun for a group of lunatics is a forum. A forum of lunatics.
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TuVictus

martinskrtel37 wrote:

Operative wrote:

I think we're way past that whole "you're supposed to BE Link". That was true for like the first two games. But the 3D games have made him his own character.

but you're still controlling him.. essentially making you link

That's really silly reasoning. Am I supposed to be Lara Croft, or Master Chief, or Tidus from FFX, or any other character just because I'm controlling them? Of course not. Just as they are definitely their own characters with their own personalities, so is Link. You controlling them has nothing to do with you needing to project yourself onto them. Lord knows I didn't when I was watching Link and Zelda in SS.

[Edited by TuVictus]

TuVictus

Haru17

What you silence supremacists—

Which is what I'll call you unless your preferred laissez-faire Link has a rebuttal.

"..."

No? Okay, moving on them

—fail to realize is the sheer awkwardness of silent Link. Don't you remember every time someone addresses Link in a cut scene and he opens his mouth, as if to reply, but says nothing and merely gawks with his mouth open? That's bad, worse than your imaginary grass and slippery slopes will ever be.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

Nicolai

But when I take down an event or solve a puzzle in a video game, I think "I got him," or "I solved it." It would be weird to me if I defeated a boss and said to myself "good job, Link!" To me, cut scenes are no different. After I play for a while, I recognize that I was the one who beat all of those dungeons, and I think "Sheik taught me a song," "Zelda told me about the TriForce," "I'm going up against Ganon," etc. It'd be really weird for me to think that all of those things happened to a character in the story when I was controlling the movements and performing the actions.

To be clear, this way of thinking certainly isn't naturally occurring to everyone, though; it doesn't mean other people are doing it wrong. Different people with different imaginations react to storytelling in different ways. I'm mostly just defending it so people don't think that we have overactive imaginations and trouble distinguishing reality, or something.

Got married.
Nico-loggery! - || - Time Zone: CST (-6:00) - |...

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Dezzy

martinskrtel37 wrote:

because zelda was their adventure game, a virtual world for you to get lost in. it's about imagination, intelligence. super mario is about how good you are navigating the plumber through levels, how good you are with your hands. dexterity, reflexes. i'm pretty sure this is how nintendo viewed them from the start, in essence.

I'm not clear what you're implying by that. That seems to be a largely unimportant distinction for the point at hand. Mario Sunshine is just as much of an adventure as some Zelda games.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

martinskrtel37

Dezzy wrote:

martinskrtel37 wrote:

because zelda was their adventure game, a virtual world for you to get lost in. it's about imagination, intelligence. super mario is about how good you are navigating the plumber through levels, how good you are with your hands. dexterity, reflexes. i'm pretty sure this is how nintendo viewed them from the start, in essence.

I'm not clear what you're implying by that. That seems to be a largely unimportant distinction for the point at hand. Mario Sunshine is just as much of an adventure as some Zelda games.

what i'm saying is that super mario is a video game born and bred. super mario as a character exists because you needed something that resembled anything as you navigated it through levels which you complete with your skills. the legend of zelda at its core was a take on the classic fantasy tale about a boy and his sword, it was designed to be nintendo's idea of that fantasy tale. you asked why people want link to speak but never mention mario - looking at their creation gives a good part of the reason why. mario from day 1 was simply something for you to control in a brand new game concept - they literally made up the platforming genre, THAT was the big feat, it wasn't about saving the princess, everyone knows the story doesn't matter in mario, why? cos it's a video game

why do people want link voiced? that is a different question. that genre of adventure, today, as Haru has been talking about, evokes so much emotion from you. but platformers don't. despite being a 2015 release you don't get emotionally invested in the story of donkey kong country tropical freeze and don't expect to because it's a platformer. so in todays world where we have so many games that have voice acting and more of a movie experience, we expect such things from zelda because it's the same genre. even if it's not in nintendo's way to do this, people are expecting it because it's the norm.

Operative said before "Am I supposed to be Lara Croft, or Master Chief, or Tidus from FFX, or any other character just because I'm controlling them? Of course not." well those are not nintendo games, you can't compare apples with oranges. we cannot say "final fantasy does this - why don't you?" this is an example of expecting nintendo to follow the industry - an industry that actually followed nintendo's very own blueprint to begin with. you will never understand what nintendo's outlook is if you're comparing them to others and going "why aren't nintendo like them?" but if you look at nintendo and ask "why are they like that?" you're more likely to find out.

Octane wrote:

everyone needs to relax and enjoy the games that are released today and stop worrying what Nintendo will do in a year or two from now.

Haru17

Nicolai wrote:

But when I take down an event or solve a puzzle in a video game, I think "I got him," or "I solved it." It would be weird to me if I defeated a boss and said to myself "good job, Link!" To me, cut scenes are no different. After I play for a while, I recognize that I was the one who beat all of those dungeons, and I think "Sheik taught me a song," "Zelda told me about the TriForce," "I'm going up against Ganon," etc. It'd be really weird for me to think that all of those things happened to a character in the story when I was controlling the movements and performing the actions.

To be clear, this way of thinking certainly isn't naturally occurring to everyone, though; it doesn't mean other people are doing it wrong. Different people with different imaginations react to storytelling in different ways. I'm mostly just defending it so people don't think that we have overactive imaginations and trouble distinguishing reality, or something.

I totally agree! In fact, when I missed my bus yesterday I used my gravity powers to fly all the way to class. On the way I had to fight some turrible space goo, but it was alright. I survived with the help of my cosmic horror cat and his magical powers.

Here's the pics:

Untitled

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

CaviarMeths

Haru17 wrote:

I totally agree! In fact, when I missed my bus yesterday I used my gravity powers to fly all the way to class. On the way I had to fight some turrible space goo, but it was alright. I survived with the help of my cosmic horror cat and his magical powers.

Here's the pics:

You're really good at pretending to be terrible at discussion. Some people make a really good career out of it, like Bill O'Reilly. Stephen Colbert too, but his schtick is much more overt and invites the audience in on the joke.

Something to consider, anyway.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

jump

Joshua179 wrote:

Why exactly does Link need a voice? I thought you was meant to project yourself into him. Like most games, you make the decisions of a/the character, which these days is rare since we've got big scripts and CGI. Don't get me wrong, it's great that games are giving more thought to the characters but Zelda has many interesting characters anyway.

Personally I kind of like that Link doesn't speak, cos when I want to play a game, I like bashing the a button and skipping everything anyway, I don't really have patience for yapping. Probably why games like Mario Kart/ Maker are my favourites.

You don't really make the decision for Link though, you're just following the plot of the game like other " big scripts and CGI" games.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812

erv

The power of compromise is readily available.

"Link, will you save the tumbling goron?"
"NYYAAAAAAHHH!"

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Haru17

CaviarMeths wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

I totally agree! In fact, when I missed my bus yesterday I used my gravity powers to fly all the way to class. On the way I had to fight some turrible space goo, but it was alright. I survived with the help of my cosmic horror cat and his magical powers.

Here's the pics:

You're really good at pretending to be terrible at discussion. Some people make a really good career out of it, like Bill O'Reilly. Stephen Colbert too, but his schtick is much more overt and invites the audience in on the joke.

Something to consider, anyway.

Funny you mention the American left and right because, just like Colbert (although he's probably more of a centrist, but that's beside the point) and O'Reilly, 'discussing' is a moot point. When they 'discussed' politics with one another neither of their world views changed one bit. That's because they disagree on a fundamental factual and moral level.

The same principal holds true here: Y'all think you can project yourselves onto video game characters and I think that's rul cray cray.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

Nicolai

Haru17 wrote:

The same principal holds true here: Y'all think you can project yourselves onto video game characters and I think that's rul cray cray.

Okay, go ahead and think that. But just for the record, no one here actually believes that they're Link. It's just a perspective.

Got married.
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aozz101x

I'm excited to try out this game when it release this year! (hoping so at least)

My Top 10 Games
1. Judgement
2. Baldur's Gate 3
3. Bully (Rockstar)
4. Person 4 / Golden
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6. Xenoblade X
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9. James Bond 007 Nightfire
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Ralizah

Hoping Link stays silent. The annoying karate grunts are bad enough: imagine Link chattering away constantly like Nathan Drake or something.

Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond (NS2); Corpse Factory (PC)

Kylo_Ren

I just hope that instead of having all the dungeons open at the beginning (for any order) instead we have 3 open so we can more cutscenes, and we can have increased difficulty in the next bunch of dungeons. (ALBW dungeons were far too easy) They could also, after you completed dungeons, make increased enemy strengths in the remaining dungeons, but dungeons were more about solving then the enemies (apart from the bosses).

Kylo_Ren

Eel

They could go the extra mile and have separate designs with different difficulty levels for each dungeon depending on the order you visit them in.

It would be too much work and probably not happen, but it would be a dream for replayabilty.

[Edited by Eel]

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