Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

@Nicolai It took me a while to realise what to do, but I'm glad I discovered it myself. I wish there was an option to turn stuff like that off in Nintendo's games. I don't mind being stuck for a couple of minutes on something (heck, I love the Witness, and that game is all about that!). I wish they didn't just straight up tell you what to do if you can't figure it out within x amount of minutes.

@Tsurii Looking forward to it!

Haha I was proud of myself that I finally found the solution without looking it up. But yeah the last part of it had me stumped for about half an hour.

@-Green-
This spoiler tells you how to beat a boss on death mountain, so be warned! Halfway through the fight Windblight Ganon kept shielding up and none of my attacks were doing anything. Daruk says "Maybe he'd like a bomb snack." And as it turned out, a bomb from my Sheikah Slate was exactly what broke the shield. Granted, I did take a very long time up until that point. Other things were said before I was given that hint.

I'm about 10 hours into the game. My thoughts so far are that the following things stand out:

1 - World gated by environmental hazards like extremely cold and hot environments.

2 - Wide range of abilities available from the start with some allowing you to shortcut the "designed" path.

3 - Lack of emphasis on segmented self contained dungeons in favour of a sprawling world.

4 - Sense of a devastated world in the ashes of an ancient advanced civilisation who wield technology that seems like magic.

It all screams something to me and that something is: Metroid. Metroid. Metroid. Metroid. BoTW might well be the best "Metroid" game since Super Metroid - it certainly feels like the logical place for that franchise to go if Nintendo were willing to give it the time and investment.

So far I think it's a masterful game and a landmark of design. It's the first time in a long time I've played a game and felt a little sad every time I complete a shrine or find something new because I'll only experience this for the first time once and every bit that passes I'm a bit nearer to the finish.

Honest I feel a bit sorry for any company that has open world games in process at the moment that are too far in development to change in reflection of the lessons that BoTW has to teach. They'll launch adhering to an old template that BoTW has in so many ways shown to be broken and, even worse, everyone knows now how it should be done.

@StuTwo BotW took a big chance at changing what one would expect out of an open world game and I think it paid off extremely well. They could have done the Ubisoft approach with a cluttered map, way points, and point of interests but their minimalist open world approach was really forward thinking. Many have said this already but this game feels more like the original NES version than any in the series.

While playing I thought "wow they could have taken the easy way and just made this another Ubisoft open world game" but I'm so glad they didn't.

So I while I was hopelessly lost in Hyrule Castle trying to find that one memory that's supposed to be there, I decided to take a quick peek at Ganon. I knew I wouldn't win because I was grossly unprepared for any serious boss battle...

And...

Figured out the Guardian's weak point after I got boxed in Hyrule Castle Town. I was not going to leave Epona there. I'll be hunting them now heheheh. Still wandering around completing shrines and looking for memories.

One thing about this game that shocks me is just how DIFFICULT it is. As a gamer it's kind of a treat, but after how "accessible" they were going with SS, there's nothing remotely accessible about BotW. If you're not already a hardcore gamer I can't imagine how you could possibly even play the game. It seems to rely on already knowing things to look for to figure out how to do anything, and especially cook or fight, etc. I'm kind of amazed the critics didn't ding it more for that aspect. Having fought my first actual "boss", it was easy enough after a few tries to cheese through it with meals and using my more powerful weapons I was hording, but I tried thinking about that process if I was someone who just bought a switch and wasn't previously a gamer, and that would have been impossible (and even getting there would have been impossible.) For me, the game is perfect, but I'm amazed there's no easy mode or something for new gamers (despite the internet rage that would create for some reason ) Parts of this game play like a Souls game.

@Ryu_Niiyama I've not dared even approach the castle or get too far into hyrule field. The closest I've come to the castle is the tower for that area. I finally took out a rusted out guardian burried in the ground....went through two good weapons doing that, and several arrows!

Sorry man, this thread's getting so wild that several pages have gone by, by the time I reply to them! lol. Not complaining' though! It's certainly never boring around here! But yeah, I tend to just dive in whenever I see a post worth replying to (but still very easy to miss posts, even if they have been left straight afterwards!)

I feel like the game is only as hard as you want it to be.

I beat Ganon a few minutes ago (I'm still not done with the game though!) and to be honest I never really felt the game was too hard.

That said, I spent most of my time through Hyrule wearing monster masks, hiding behind walls, and climbing my way out of conflict. All while being basically incompetent at combat most of the time.

And the champions know I have abused their powers as much as I have been able to.

Agreed 100%. It uses every button on the controller all of the time - even the d-pad. I love it but it's not accessible or approachable in the way that A Link to The Past was or even Wind Waker.

For anyone who's played more than a few 3d adventure games in the past 15 years it's phenomenal (which is why we all love it and why the critics have gone crazy for it) but it's definitely a valid criticism of the game that it's hard for newcomers to approach.

The one positive for newcomers would be - I suppose - that the penalties for dying are so slight and you're trapped in the relatively "soft" training area until you can understand the basic concepts anyway. I loved the way that you pretty much have to learn how to cook before you can get to the "last" of the first 4 shrines. It's classic Nintendo's gameplay design philosophy but with a slightly softer touch.

@NEStalgia I wish there was a more difficult mode... It's definitely no Dark Souls. The boss fights have been very easy so far, and I'm actually kinda disappointed that they don't scale with your gear, because every subsequent boss fight is even easier.. I just breezed through the third boss fight, no big deal, only took damage once.

@NEStalgia Well I feel like this Zelda is like Zelda and Dragon's Dogma sat down and made a game. The difficulty is accessible so long as you know understand the combat system (stay on the plateau for a bit and you will get your timing down... plus the training shrines) but the game does punish you if you just run in haphazardly. At the same time I sorta want to kick Aonuma in the shin for Lynels...look they freaked me out in LttP, LBW and now BotW...They need a mass extinction event right about now.

I will say this game feels like a 30th anniversary game even though they didn't make the fanfare about it. Lots of references to previous games and a very engaging narrative (minus the voice acting). I haven't touched anything else since.

Also, for the Guardians You can parry the guidance beam with your shield. I killed 4 of the stalkers that way.

Guardians become a joke once you get the master sword or some of the ancient weapons. It's fun farming them for parts and destroying them.

Breath of the Wild is also gated by over-leveled enemies and difficult dodging tasks.

They also completely ditched that talk back in 2014 of being able to approach dungeons from any angle and strictly divorced the shrines and dungeons from the overworld.

I'd say Lynels are definitely the scariest enemy in the game. The good thing is they're 1000% optional to fight.

Even in Hyrule Castle the game locks you into a room with one, you can escape through a window.

@Haru17 Yeah. I was really hoping they would have stuck to that direction. Like how they were teasing at the Game Awards gameplay.

Well, you can certainly decide which dungeon to play and which terminal go for first and so on.

So technically they didn't lie!

@StuTwo Yeah, not only does it use every single button, but some of them pull double duty, and even that's not enough, many required functions are buried in pages of nested menus, and then there's a mechanism you operate in the Zora area that they just throw the controls on the map screen because "why not?" and there's really no where else they make sense. For veterans it's all perfect. But there's so many people I want to talk into getting a Switch, I know they'd love it, they're not really gamers at all, and when I think of a game to recommend my first impulse it to say to get one of the highest rated games of all time....and then I play it again and think "how on earth will anyone not already experienced have ANY idea what is going on here? It's one of the most (necessarily) complicated control schemes for any game I've ever played short of Microsoft Flight Simulator and combat is "get it right or don't do it at all"

Even the cooking in the Plateau. Making that connection that you were supposed to gather those things in the way you have to to make that thing when in the right place to do so...and understanding to accomplish many things you have to cook the right things....that was pretty obtuse for a tutorial area. I figured it out in probably an hour or so since I'm used to cryptic-Nintendo hints....but a newcomer would be stuck there for days and then give up (or go online....I got serious "I need to call Nintendo Power!" vibes from that )

But at least that, online can help. Combat...not so much. That said, I still can't master the combat. I keep trying the side-hop....it worked in the tutorial shrine....but I've only got it to work ONCE on real enemies. Whether Scouts or lizeals it never kicks into a flurry attack, I just jump to the side and nothing more. I end up just mashing for survival half the time and trying to dodge by sprinting. Trying to explain that to someone else would be difficult at best. The approach to the second and third portions of the zora area...I found it quite fun and got through in an hour or two....but imagining a newcomer....just figuring out how to get around and complete things near Shatterback and approaching the divine beast, managing going between runes, shooting, etc would be torture to anyone but experienced gamers who wouldn't even understand the features they should be using.

Very very inaccessible game. An AMAZING gift to long time fans and new gamers....but without 30 years of Zelda lore and a boatload of games under my belt....this would be seriously punishing.

It's stunning that Nintendo actually did that though.

@Octane I don't know that I'd call the water boss "easy". I went into it with 4 hearts (haven't spent any orbs yet...still debating hearts vs stamina ) , and he could one-shot met at any time so battle is always "be flawless or go home." And that's after many many hours and about 30 shrines done. I had some great weapons from shrines....25-30 grade weapons...and on the ground they did big damage almost laughably fast. If I didn't get one-shot. Phase 2 was rougher though as I had to go archery only. Granted I only had to retry it 4 or 5 times before getting him, but I feel like I cheesed through it eating food every time I didn't get one-shot, eating str/def food I had the foresight to take with me but a newcomer to the game wouldn't predict the need for. At every turn I feel like I don't have the right equipment or weapons, and while I love using creativity to get through the encounter, it still feels like I'm kind of using "gamer sense" to cheat through the battles by exploiting the systems. Something a newcomer wouldn't have at their disposal and would try to "play it straight" instead of end-runs around the designer's logic holes.

@Ryu_Niiyama Getting the combat system down is quite a feat though. Personally I can't get the dodging to work reliably for me, so I just ignore it more times than not rather than jumping like a jack in the box in front of enemies. TP every battle was a choreographed dance.....this one, the combat is much better in terms of enemies, but darn that dodging never kicks in like it should somehow. Easy enough to sprint around them and avoid the blows anyway, but still, I wish I could get that mechanic working. Never failed in the training shrine. Other enemies even other scouts, it never works. But a newcomer coming off the plateau and meeting their first Moblin? What a disaster! Hiding from everything and avoiding combat would be their normal.

I agree about it feeling like a 30th anniversary game though. It's the proper sequel to Zelda 1 I've waited decades for. And lots of enemies we haven't seen in 30 years either.

Lynels....ugh. I went up to that first one at Shatterback and thought "oh I'll just take him out" Nope! 3000HP? Huh? that's the same as the guardian scouts in the "difficult test of courage" shrines! But his sweeping blow one shots wherever you are, the guardian scouts don't! Still, not sure they're any worse than guardians.

I'll have to try that trick with guardians. Maybe that would have worked in that one other place too... Now that I have Mipha's Grace that should make experimenting with that sort of thing a lot more inviting.