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Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

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Ralizah

@Octane It really does feel, weirdly enough, like a living world. This attention to world building and NPCs is part of the reason I loved Majora's Mask as much as I did.

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spizzamarozzi

The game is a thing of beauty, but I agree with all the people saying that that frame drops in the villages are atrocious. Yesterday I hit the Calbarico Village (no idea how you call that in english) and I had to get out ASAP because it looked choppy as hell. Today I reached the Zora Village and things seemed a bit better but still disappointing. Villages are the areas where you want to relax and take you time, but as it is, they are the most frustrating parts to explore. I don't know much about framerates and usually don't care, but it's very noticeable. I mean, it's obvious even to my untrained eye, so people don't noticing it just make me think I got a faulty copy or something.

It's a very very good game don't get me wrong, but there are things here and there that make me wish Nintendo focused only on doing one version extremely well instead of doing two versions okay. I really miss the map on the GamePad, for example. It's nothing that makes the game less beautiful or impressive than it is, but I can feel there are little things that would make it better.

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shani

Ralizah wrote:

Only thing I will say I am disappointed by is the limited memory in this game world. I remember setting up a trap with three explosive barrels and luring some enemies back to it. Only, by the time I got back to where I had positioned the barrels, two of them were gone.

That's strange, the long memory of the game was actually one of the things that stood out to me as a positive. E.g. whenever I left my horse somewhere far away, it still was waiting there when I came back hours later. Maybe it depends which objects are affected exactly. I can imagine that the barrels get repositioned when the enemies respawn after the red moon appears.
It's still better than what I've been used to from other open world games. In GTA or Far Cry 3 and 4 or Watchdogs 1 and 2, you could always count on the game forgetting cars or blockades you put there in a matter of minutes (after you've left the area).

Dezzy wrote:

You just answered your own question! Of course you can optimise it. Remove 2 or 3 people from the village. Remove one of the houses. Cut the amount of grass by 50%.
Any of those would be acceptable to me for the sake of consistent 30fps. As for you not noticing it in Kakariko, are you the Switch? As that video points out, the frame drops are in completely different places on the Wii U and Switch versions.

Also, I just noticed, there's realtime ambient occlusion running at all times! 1 line of code could turn that off during areas where they know there's predictable framedrops. That would give you 30fps easily.

Oh, I thought that was self-explanatory: no, that's not optimizing, that's destroying the game! I couldn't accept that. If they took out 2 or 3 people and a few houses, the village would appear empty (it's not like they have a million inhabitants) and everyone would be criticizing the game for its emptiness. And I feel they alread cut the amount of grass by at least 75% in villages, compared to other parts of the world. If you take even more away there's nothing left! No, that would be terrible and the same goes for removing ambient occlusion in certain parts. Not only would the game be less beautiful but the looks would also be very inconsistent.
I'd take rare dips to 25fps any time over an empty, ugly game world. 98% of the time the game seems to run at 30fps (I had maybe 5-6 framerate dips in total during 21 hours of gameplay). And I'm playing it on Wii U, digital copy (also worth mentioning I suppose, since discs are probably slower).

But as the most recent NL article says, the framerate drops aren't occuring consistently at the same locations - not even on the same system:

What's interesting on the Digital Foundry video is the demonstration that frame drops aren't in consistent places, showing how the running of the engine prompts stutters at different points regardless of hardware. Both entries suffer from this

So the lack of consistency doesn't refer to Switch<>Wii U but to the same location on the same system on different copies of the game. That's why you get more frequent, heavy frame drops in Kakariko and I don't (but instead I got a very awful non-playable drop while fighting one enemy). We don't know why (my money is on the weather and all the other variables that are different in every savegame: positions of characters, the status of certain objects etc), but maybe Nintendo can patch it out.

Oh and regarding the memory: No, I meant the Wii U's internal memory (no matter where you installed the game). This is nothing new, but I've discovered a few years ago that whenever there's little free internal memory left, the whole console becomes slower - even just in the Wii U menu, without playing any game.
So a few weeks ago I bought a 256GB flash drive and put everything there so that there's nothing stored on the internal memory (except for my Splatoon and MK8 backup).

Edited on by shani

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Octane

Ralizah wrote:

Octane It really does feel, weirdly enough, like a living world. This attention to world building and NPCs is part of the reason I loved Majora's Mask as much as I did.

Yup, love the way they handle shops too. You can see the items and you can even see the amount they have up for sale and as you purchase them, they disappear one by one. Don't think I've ever seen that in a game.

Octane

Dezzy

shani wrote:

Oh, I thought that was self-explanatory: no, that's not optimizing, that's destroying the game! I couldn't accept that. If they took out 2 or 3 people and a few houses, the village would appear empty (it's not like they have a million inhabitants) and everyone would be criticizing the game for its emptiness. And I feel they alread cut the amount of grass by at least 75% in villages, compared to other parts of the world. If you take even more away there's nothing left! No, that would be terrible and the same goes for removing ambient occlusion in certain parts. Not only would the game be less beautiful but the looks would also be very inconsistent.

Well I guess we define it differently relative to what we care about the game doing.
There are a lot of ways you could do it though. Instead of removing 2 or 3 people, just have fewer with AI so only a few are walking around while more are standing still, and in their houses.
Or look at the shrine in the middle of the village. There are 4 torches around it (and it's one of the main parts that kills the framerate). Replace those 4 torches with 1 bigger torch that produces the same amount of light but has 1/4 as many particles on screen.
Lots of ways to do that sort of thing without just killing the game design.

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Henmii

Its a pretty tricky game, at least in the battle/survival area. For example SPOILER: When I found a bow, it didn't even come with arrows. And when I had arrows and wanted to pick off the Steppe tallus, I failed miserably. Other tactics didn't work either. I'll beat him later, when I am stronger END OF SPOILER

Henmii

Joeynator3000

makes it to the first village
....Now the music is making me think of Okami. xD

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Octane

I reached the shrine in the second village... Hateno Village, the windmill village. I managed to cheat my way through the shrine. It has a giant motion controlled ball maze-puzzle-game-thingy. Forget about that maze, just turn the board upside down and you have a neat flat surface, that's brilliant!

Octane

TuVictus

The game is as big as I had hoped. However, for as little as I played, I can already tell it's not gonna dethrone Majora's mask or skyward sword in my list of top Zelda games. If the story and music pick up later on, I may have to reconsider.

But of course it's the most variable when it comes to gameplay, which is a wonderful thing all on its own

Edited on by TuVictus

TuVictus

Octane

More on the second village.. I can buy a house!? That's The Witcher 3 all over again! 3,000 rupees though..

Octane

Dezzy

Where the hell is the Korok Forest? I need to get rid of my 50 seeds

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Spanjard

@Dezzy 50!? Good on you lol.

I got a vague hint telling me to go north from Kakariko and follow the hylian river and continue north... or something like that haha.

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Octane

Spanjard wrote:

I got a vague hint telling me to go north from Kakariko and follow the hylian river and continue north... or something like that haha.

Indeed, follow Hylia River, that's what I've been told. I think that's what I'm going to do tomorrow, because I don't really have any other objectives at the moment.

Octane

Eel

Spanjard wrote:

dezzy 50!? Good on you lol.

I got a vague hint telling me to go north from Kakariko and follow the hylian river and continue north... or something like that haha.

Is that before or after Mordor?

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Nicolai

@Dezzy Yeah, what's his name exchanges seeds for you, and he's on the road between Kakariko Village and the Twin Peaks.

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Dezzy

Eugh, so there's major frame rate issues in EVERY town I've been to so far on the WiiU version. This is really annoying me.

Can someone confirm that this doesn't happen on the Switch? I think I really might just stop playing and wait til I get a Switch later in the year before finishing it. Sounds pedantic and silly but exploring the towns thoroughly is essential for me in open world games. Can't enjoy it on the Wii U version at all.
I guess there's a chance they'll patch it, but I'm dubious they'll pay any attention to the Wii U version.

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AlexSays

@Dezzy Sounds like it is better on the Switch.

There are definitely framerate drops, but they aren't as bad as you're saying. The worst for me were in the very beginning area with all the grass. The towns have been mostly fine.

AlexSays

Dezzy

@AlexSays

It's purely about the towns for me. I don't mind problems out in the world. Most of those situations you only tend to run into once or twice. But the towns you're gonna keep returning to, so they need to be running well imo.
It's the sort of thing that you'd think a developer should prioritise. I'm guessing Nintendo just used their resources optimising the Switch version.

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skywake

It's interesting reading how some people are playing this game. I've heard some people say they've spent a good 10 hours or so just in the first area. Others are going through the story quickly. I actually spent a fair amount of time doing some mountain climbing.

@Dezzy
The only major performance hit I've seen on the Switch version is when there are huge amounts of particle effects already and you get into a fight. It has really slowed down for half a second or so in those moments. Also the grass in the great plateau although it's not quite as bad. Haven't noticed any issues in villages.

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SecretaryNS

@Dezzy That's weird. I just discovered Kakariko Village a couple hours ago, spent about 45 minutes there, had no framerate drops. In fact, I've only had one in eight hours of playing so far--fighting a Moblin out on the plains near the Great Plateau. Minor, didn't affect gameplay, but I expected it to happen more often. I'm using a disc though...you?

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