Topic: Next Nintendo Direct?

@Grumblevolcano Releasing another Pokemon game in November would be pure foolishness on Game Freak's part. They've blown their load in late 2021/early 2022, they're not going to be able to cobble together a full game in 9 months (and if they try, it's going to be a mess, maybe even a Sonic 06-esque mess). If they try, it's going to end up a disaster. It would also seriously cannibalize Legends Arceus sales and would basically mean they've sent that game out to die, they're going to want to squeeze some more sales out of it next holiday. Legends Arceus DLC might actually be the smart move really since it's a way to give the game more life in a more financially lucrative time of the year and help the game succeed. Game Freak has most likely poured a ton of resources into it, so it would be a waste for them to release it in the dead zone of the year, then replace it with something else at the game's best opportunity for a sales bump.

I'd like to have one or the other of BotW2 and MO2 in 2022, but IDK, the Zelda team is struggling for some reason and the 3D Mario team spent some time on 3D All Stars and 3D World + Bowser's Fury, so Holiday 2022 seems a bit optimistic. BotW2, MO2, and XC3 seem like the most likely candidates out of expected 2022 games that don't actually release until 2023 because of their size and scale and because their teams have had other significant projects in between.

Nintendo is not Rockstar, they like money but they also like to be creative and unique. They don't just sit on something if they have a creative idea for it, that's not their MO. If they've thought up a new idea for Mario Kart, and they probably have after doing next to nothing since 2017, they'll just come out with it.

@Bolt_Strike ... I'm going to agree with @Grumblevolcano here. Every console gets a Mario Kart but in the minds of the vast, vast majority of people on Switch Mario Kart 8 is a Switch game. I don't think the Switch needs a Mario Kart 9 and frankly I don't see what it would bring to the table. I'd consider skipping it if it was just a flat new Switch release, and I say that as the dude who has my avatar.....

I do think this is the year where if we don't get new hardware we're going to start seeing titles that would've been showcase pieces for new hardware. Dread was definitely a showcase piece for the OLED screen and was released with that timing for that reason. I have always had a suspicion that BOTW2 was going to be a way to show off new hardware but it's not a title they would hold back for it. If we do get a "Pro" model this year, or whatever people want to call it, expect a bit of an avalanche at the end of this year. Mario Kart 9 could have been such a title

But in general I'd say the Zelda and Metroid Prime remakes are the easiest of bets. Bayonetta 3 at the tail end of the year is enough to keep me happy. But we are also getting Kirby, BotW and Mario & Rabbids, all of which I'm pretty hyped about, so it's going to be a pretty damn great year for me. All of these and probably Metroid Prime Trilogy if it happens are must gets for me. I'm set.

I wouldn't mind getting SOME surprises on the software side though. There are still some game niches missing from the Switch library. I would be pretty hyped if we got something like Pikmin 4, Mario Strikers or Wario Land. The Switch is also missing a lot of Wii era motion games and DS era touch games even though it can do both. Nothing like Wii Sports or Rhythm Heaven for example and nothing like Nintendo Land for that matter even though you could technically do that with two Switches. Anything along those lines I'd be MUCH more interested in than another Mario Kart

@skywake What would it bring to the table? There's a ton of possibilities:

1. I mentioned making it open world like DKR and Forza Horizon.
2. Nintendo Kart is also an option I mentioned earlier, adding new characters, items, and tracks from other Nintendo series (I'm less enthusiastic about this option personally, but it can add a lot more diversity to the game's assets).
3. Bring back Double Dash mode, perhaps expand on it by allowing the karts to split (they could do things like let you dodge/go around obstacles, potentially include literal rubber band mechanics like Knuckles' Chaotix).
3. Adapt Tour's mechanics to the main series. Introduce shops (why was this not a thing before, the stupid "collect X coins to unlock a random part" was always nonsensical and a shop makes way more sense), add in R and/or T variants to get more mileage out of the same tracks, add costumes/variants for characters, run time limited event cups to make the game more evergreen (something equivalent to Splatfests/Spirit Board Events/Dynamax Events), and bring back Mission Mode.
4. Full track editor (Home Circuit did do this, but it was a bit limited).

EDIT: Also, in regards to the lack of touch/motion control games, I think Nintendo's seen that those games don't particularly sell well with the Switch's audience, most of the people that bought those games on Wii and DS have moved on and the Switch user base isn't as receptive to touch and motion controls. The Switch can also replicate some of those things, but not very well, and anything that requires dual screen gameplay that we would've seen on the DS, 3DS, or Wii U is off the table (maybe next gen they'll have an upgraded Switch that could replicate those consoles better). I think Rhythm Heaven is a possibility, that one seems to be fairly popular (although IDK the gameplay that well, so maybe the Switch won't be able to replicate it that well). But most of those other ones? Probably gone for good.

@Bolt_Strike All of those are ideas that would dilute the core strength of Mario Kart though.

Shops in particular. They instantly make the game more of an investment of time to play. One of the most understated but important improvements from MK8 to MK8DX was the fact that everything was open and unlocked (save for the purely cosmetic customisations) from the beginning. The randomness isn't a flaw - it's a deliberate (and correct) decision made to trivialise the customisations.

I'd possibly take it even further and have everything unlocked from the get go - if I've paid £50 for a party game there should be no grinding at all. Definitely no hooks built around trying to turn players into in-game consumers (I've actively avoided CTR for this reason).

Mario Kart simply isn't a game that needs artificial hooks like that to keep players playing.

Likewise "open-world" and more complex mechanics are the opposite of what the series thrives on. It's a game that anyone should be able to pick up for the very first time and enjoy within 5 minutes. Even more granular accessibility options (like an option for the game to automatically take every opportunity to give players the speed boost for jumping off the apex of ramps) would make more sense.

I'd take more tracks as DLC (preferrably free) but otherwise if I were Nintendo I'd keep MK9 stewing away quietly on the backburner and kick its development up a gear when the next console is approaching release.

@StuTwo The parts aren't really cosmetic though, they affect your car's stats. That much needs to change if they want to trivialize unlocking them. And even then, keeping them random is still the wrong way to go about it. What if they want a specific part but the RNG doesn't work in their favor? A shop would be a much better way to do that, then they could choose which one they want with much less time and effort.

Any game can benefit from evergreen content. Pokemon is also meant to be accessible, yet even they have evergreen content with the Max Raid events to give people a reason to come back months and even years after they've finished the game. People will get bored of your game if you don't continually add new content in some way regardless of the type of game.

The open world game would be a subseries. Think something like the sandbox Marios vs. the linear course clear Marios or 2D Metroid vs. Metroid Prime. Every Mario Kart game from then on would not be open world, they would alternate between the traditional Mario Karts and the open world Mario Karts. It's a way to provide a new style of racing in addition to what they have already, not replacing what we have.

Also, you didn't mention anything about Nintendo Kart, R/T variants, costumes, Mission Mode, or track editors. How exactly do they "dilute the core strength of Mario Kart"?

@Bolt_Strike Super Mario 3D World+ Bowser Fury was developed by Nintendo software planing, Nintendo EPD tokyo must be busy working on the rumored 2D Donkey Kong game or a new 3D Mario game.

@Bolt_Strike The main Mario team wasn't involved in 3D All-Stars either, that was the European team.

@Bolt_Strike
I still think there are far more interesting IPs they could make sequels for than Mario Kart. That's before we even think about the potential for new IP. In any case, 2021 looks pretty healthy as it is so they don't really need a Mario Kart 9 in any case

As for the last bit i.e. "touch and motion doesn't sell on Switch". TBH I'm not sure there's much evidence for it not working on Switch. Skyward Sword HD did pretty well and even Clubhouse games moved a few million units despite being a husk of a release. 3D All Stars moved ~9mill units and included Galaxy with its motion controls, Ring Fit Adventure is currently sitting at 12mill. Touch and motion does fine on Switch, I would think something along the lines of a Wii Sports remake would do insanely well

As for Rhythm Heaven? It's basically a one button game but it exploded on DS where it used the touchscreen instead. It's a touch-era game but it doesn't require the touch screen at all. The Wii version just used the A button. But the point remains, there are a bunch of quirky releases like that from the Wii/DS era that are entirely absent in the Switch's library.

In terms of dual screen gameplay on Switch? They've already done it, more than once depending on how you look at it. Clubhouse games has a multi-Switch mode where you play the game across multiple units. It's not streaming the video but it doesn't need to, you could do something like this to replicate something like the hide-and-seek multiplayer modes from Nintendo Land. But there is also Mario Kart Live which streams a video feed. Of course the Switch isn't a dumb device like the Wii U GamePad, if you were replicating some kind of dual-screen thing you'd just render the game on both to get a cleaner image

Anyways, the above is a bit of a distraction. My main argument was just about forgotten games on the Switch more generally that would be more welcome additions to the library than Mario Kart 9. Not necessarily better sellers but still. Where's Wario Land, Mario Strikers? Why not bring back Punchout or do another Kid Icarus? There are a lot of titles I'd like to see on Switch before Mario Kart 9

@skywake No, I think we'll still see games like Skyward Sword and Mario Galaxy that use motion controls, but bringing back casual motion control gimmicks for the sake of casual motion control gimmicks is unnecessary. Wii Sports only really sold well as a pack in title, otherwise there's no reason to have it when we already have Mario sports games. And Nintendo Land was a glorified tech demo and its minigames are better off being integrated into the actual IPs they represent instead of being a minigame game. The Switch has its fair share of these quirky experiments (Labo, Ring Fit Adventure, Game Builder Garage), but they're mainly one offs that tinker with the capabilities of the Switch, they don't seem to be interested in revisiting the quirky experiments they did before.

Furthermore, I see no reason why this has to be an either/or scenario. They can make Mario Kart AND some more of these games like Wario Land and Pikmin (assuming they're actually interested in bringing them back, which is a whole different discussion).

Maybe we just have completely different ideas about what Mario Kart is/should be. To me the real strength of Mario Kart is that it's a pure arcade party game - in many ways it's the last great survivor of that genre. Everything should emphasize that IMO.

Yes the parts do have a minor impact on stats but it's negligible to the point that the weapon you pick up first has a bigger impact on where you finish. Picking parts should just be fun based on what's available rather than a max/min-ing exercise. I mean I'm sure that some people do have Excel spreadsheets set up to determine what loadout is going to give them a 2-3% advantage on each given track but really that's the antithesis of the game.

The devs could have chosen at any point in the past 25 years to make the game more skill based - at every turn they've backed away from that, favouring elements of RNG to minimise the advantage of more technically skilled players.

A shop and the ability to pick exactly what parts you want would change things - some players would beeline straight for the "optimal" equipment and you'd be immediately slowing the interface in a party situation (not to mention introducing arguments amongst kids about what they should spend their coins on!).

Any game can benefit from evergreen content. Pokemon is also meant to be accessible, yet even they have evergreen content with the Max Raid events to give people a reason to come back months and even years after they've finished the game. People will get bored of your game if you don't continually add new content in some way regardless of the type of game.

In most cases I'd agree but I'd also suggest that the continued sales of Mario Kart 8, the fact that the lobbies are still full and the fact that it's still the game that most people pick up first for local multiplayer all suggests that "players" haven't got bored of Mario Kart 8. You might have but in general it's still consistently amongst the best selling games every month.

To a certain point Mario Kart is a singular game in that regard. It's almost like a tautology - the ongoing hook for Mario Kart is that it is Mario Kart.

Other games need artificial hooks designed to keep you addicted and gaming but Mario Kart as a series simply hasn't needed it.

Also, you didn't mention anything about Nintendo Kart, R/T variants, costumes, Mission Mode, or track editors. How exactly do they "dilute the core strength of Mario Kart"?

Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of things that could be done with the series to make it a more compelling single player game. I still think Diddy Kong Racing is a better single player game than any Mario Kart has ever been and that's a 20 year old game. It's just clearly not their priority and if they were to make a Mario Kart with a great (but inevitably grindy and FOMO driven) single player mode then I'm not sure it would be a game that would automatically sell tens of millions of units.

People buy Mario Kart because it's a casual friendly, instantly accessible roller-coaster ride of an arcade game that's great for mutliplayer.

Does this even matter? Mario Kart isn't a live service game. And I think it's one of people's most played games, despite not receiving more than a DLC update on the Wii U. The strength of this game is it's multiplayer, and it doesn't really get old.

You can't force the entire game to be a "pure arcade party game" if you want it to be broadly appealing. It needs to be different things to different people. The casual players need it to be an arcade party game, but the hardcore players also need to be able to win based on their skill. Mario Kart is currently failing at that. They can, and need to, balance the two. This isn't mutually exclusive.

Which is a mistake. They're leaving money on the table by not making it a game that technically skilled players can also enjoy. If they need to level the playing field they should just do what Smash does and implement a handicap mode.

The kids will just spend their money on whatever looks cool, and if they need more coins, they can just play the game some more. I fail to see how this will slow things down, especially in comparison to the nonsensical RNG unlocking system we have now.

And you don't think they'd find all new content even more fun than just the same old courses and characters for 7 years?

If it works for other games it can work for Mario Kart. Mario Kart is not unique or special in that regard.

Yes it does because of human nature. Repeat something over and over again and it becomes less fun. That's why we have new games in the first place instead of just playing NES games for 30 years, and why even some games that already had a release on the same console get a double dip. People are hungry for a new Mario Kart game because they've been playing MK8 for 4 years (and some people who bought the original Wii U version have been playing it for 7 years) and they're bored with it and want new Mario Kart content. The game being multiplayer doesn't change that, as even other multiplayer games like Smash, Splatoon, and Pokemon lose their popularity after a few years. And hell, the latter 2 are already seeing new entries despite already having them on Switch (and Smash has had evergreen content up until a few months ago). I see no reason why Mario Kart can't either.

I think almost every "classic" game evolves or otherwise gets mods from the community at some point, but there are some true gems that just seem to withstand the test of time even in their un-modded form.

Mario Kart 8 is proving to be one of them, but also think of stuff like the first two Diablo games, Starcraft, DotA, even Skyrim - those things are still going after they were patched for the final time, and people keep playing them indefinitely.

@Bolt_Strike I think you want Mario kart to be something Nintendo doesn’t really care about. I don’t particularly care what they do next so good luck to your idea. But I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for it either.

I just hope the next entry of Mario Kart doesn't go their horrid "Live Service" model they've been using for games like New Horizons, Mario Tennis, or Mario Golf. If they release the game with 5 characters, 5 Karts, and 4 cups, I will yell into the abyss.

Except Mario Kart 8 clearly is clearly very broadly appealing. It's the absolute poster child for it - it's critically acclaimed by the gaming media and it's sold about 40 million units. You simply can't do that without being broadly appealing. Infact I'm struggling to think of a single game that has ever squared that circle quite as well as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

Part of that appeal is that it does reward technical skill (and feels satisfying to play for skilled players) but the randomness occasionally allows even poor players to win out. It's an inherent part of the game - if the best players always won or there was a higher skill ceiling (as in Smash) then it would start to work against the appeal.

Which is a mistake. They're leaving money on the table by not making it a game that technically skilled players can also enjoy. If they need to level the playing field they should just do what Smash does and implement a handicap mode.

I think the thing with Mario Kart is that technically skilled players do enjoy it. It does feel satisfying to pull off extra speed boost after extra speed boost and it does give you an advantage - even if there's always the chance that a bit of bad luck can wipe away all your good work. I think part of the reason MK 8 has been so successful is that it got the balance right for the majority of players.

Personally I'd prefer to play a single player game with as much polish as MK8 that more explicitly rewards my technical skill and strategy (like, say, DKR did on the N64) but then the game that does that is probably a game that sells 10 million instead of 40 or 50 million.

The kids will just spend their money on whatever looks cool, and if they need more coins, they can just play the game some more. I fail to see how this will slow things down, especially in comparison to the nonsensical RNG unlocking system we have now.

My own kids take an age too-ing and fro-ing between different wheels and karts. It takes ages and one child can slow the whole experience down. A shop is that taken to the nth degree and there would 100% be immediate tears at some point if one of them spent all the accumulated coins on something the other didn't want.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea but Mario Kart is a very communal game and I wouldn't personally see it as a selling point.

If it works for other games it can work for Mario Kart. Mario Kart is not unique or special in that regard.

I don't doubt that regular "events", customisation skins and FOMO driven stuff would work to get some players to play Mario Kart even more regularly. I just think that whole model is dreadful - it plays on the psychology of addiction and I'd argue it often makes many players enjoy a game less and have a worse time (even as they might end up playing it more).

If a game doesn't need those things (and the sales and continued interest in playing the game suggests that Mario Kart 8 doesn't need those things) then it's usually detrimental to add them.

People are hungry for a new Mario Kart game because they've been playing MK8 for 4 years (and some people who bought the original Wii U version have been playing it for 7 years) and they're bored with it and want new Mario Kart content.

...and "people" are showing this hunger by continuing to buy MK8 in big numbers and ensuring that it is still the most popular Switch game to play online and in local multiplayer...

Still - it's all just opinions and we can all enjoy our gaming however we like!

I expect that at some point Nintendo will give us a Mario Kart 9 and I hope that the years spent playing and reflecting on the game allow Nintendo's devs to come up with something even better. Personally I'm in no rush for them to give it us because on my Switch Mario Kart 8 is enough for me and I'm not sure I'd buy MK9 on Switch however good it is (same with Splatoon 3 TBH).

@VoidofLight I think the only ways the next mainline Mario Kart could be live service is if either it's FTP (like Mario Kart Tour) or if the next console has no backwards compatibility. The lowest expectation for content at launch for the next mainline Mario Kart if it's paid would be the same amount of content as MK8 Deluxe, if that's not met people will just continue playing MK8 Deluxe.

@Bolt_Strike
Speaking about Mario Kart games, i think Nintendo should learn from Modnation Racers on PS3 & PS Vita to make more attractive kart racing game with a lot of customizations.
I still see nobody ever mentioned about Modnation Racers here.

@Grumblevolcano I mean, New Horizons, Mario Tennis, and Mario Golf were all paid releases, and they got away with it. I could see 9 being different, mainly because of what you said, but that's only if Nintendo decides they want 9 to come this gen. If they don't, and wait until the next big console, then chances are there's nothing stopping them.

@VoidofLight Those are the only Animal Crossing, Mario Tennis and Mario Golf games you can buy on the Switch though. I don't think New Horizons would've done as well as it did with its live service approach if Nintendo ported New Leaf to Switch sometime prior to New Horizons' launch. Unless the Switch's successor doesn't have backwards compatibility, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will be playable on it.