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Topic: Next Nintendo Direct?

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Octane

Bolt_Strike wrote:

People will get bored of your game if you don't continually add new content in some way regardless of the type of game.

Does this even matter? Mario Kart isn't a live service game. And I think it's one of people's most played games, despite not receiving more than a DLC update on the Wii U. The strength of this game is it's multiplayer, and it doesn't really get old.

Octane

Bolt_Strike

StuTwo wrote:

Maybe we just have completely different ideas about what Mario Kart is/should be. To me the real strength of Mario Kart is that it's a pure arcade party game - in many ways it's the last great survivor of that genre. Everything should emphasize that IMO.

You can't force the entire game to be a "pure arcade party game" if you want it to be broadly appealing. It needs to be different things to different people. The casual players need it to be an arcade party game, but the hardcore players also need to be able to win based on their skill. Mario Kart is currently failing at that. They can, and need to, balance the two. This isn't mutually exclusive.

StuTwo wrote:

The devs could have chosen at any point in the past 25 years to make the game more skill based - at every turn they've backed away from that, favouring elements of RNG to minimise the advantage of more technically skilled players.

Which is a mistake. They're leaving money on the table by not making it a game that technically skilled players can also enjoy. If they need to level the playing field they should just do what Smash does and implement a handicap mode.

StuTwo wrote:

A shop and the ability to pick exactly what parts you want would change things - some players would beeline straight for the "optimal" equipment and you'd be immediately slowing the interface in a party situation (not to mention introducing arguments amongst kids about what they should spend their coins on!).

The kids will just spend their money on whatever looks cool, and if they need more coins, they can just play the game some more. I fail to see how this will slow things down, especially in comparison to the nonsensical RNG unlocking system we have now.

StuTwo wrote:

In most cases I'd agree but I'd also suggest that the continued sales of Mario Kart 8, the fact that the lobbies are still full and the fact that it's still the game that most people pick up first for local multiplayer all suggests that "players" haven't got bored of Mario Kart 8. You might have but in general it's still consistently amongst the best selling games every month.

And you don't think they'd find all new content even more fun than just the same old courses and characters for 7 years?

StuTwo wrote:

Other games need artificial hooks designed to keep you addicted and gaming but Mario Kart as a series simply hasn't needed it.

StuTwo wrote:

Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of things that could be done with the series to make it a more compelling single player game. I still think Diddy Kong Racing is a better single player game than any Mario Kart has ever been and that's a 20 year old game. It's just clearly not their priority and if they were to make a Mario Kart with a great (but inevitably grindy and FOMO driven) single player mode then I'm not sure it would be a game that would automatically sell tens of millions of units.

If it works for other games it can work for Mario Kart. Mario Kart is not unique or special in that regard.

Octane wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

People will get bored of your game if you don't continually add new content in some way regardless of the type of game.

Does this even matter? Mario Kart isn't a live service game. And I think it's one of people's most played games, despite not receiving more than a DLC update on the Wii U. The strength of this game is it's multiplayer, and it doesn't really get old.

Yes it does because of human nature. Repeat something over and over again and it becomes less fun. That's why we have new games in the first place instead of just playing NES games for 30 years, and why even some games that already had a release on the same console get a double dip. People are hungry for a new Mario Kart game because they've been playing MK8 for 4 years (and some people who bought the original Wii U version have been playing it for 7 years) and they're bored with it and want new Mario Kart content. The game being multiplayer doesn't change that, as even other multiplayer games like Smash, Splatoon, and Pokemon lose their popularity after a few years. And hell, the latter 2 are already seeing new entries despite already having them on Switch (and Smash has had evergreen content up until a few months ago). I see no reason why Mario Kart can't either.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

rallydefault

I think almost every "classic" game evolves or otherwise gets mods from the community at some point, but there are some true gems that just seem to withstand the test of time even in their un-modded form.

Mario Kart 8 is proving to be one of them, but also think of stuff like the first two Diablo games, Starcraft, DotA, even Skyrim - those things are still going after they were patched for the final time, and people keep playing them indefinitely.

rallydefault

sixrings

@Bolt_Strike I think you want Mario kart to be something Nintendo doesn’t really care about. I don’t particularly care what they do next so good luck to your idea. But I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for it either.

sixrings

VoidofLight

I just hope the next entry of Mario Kart doesn't go their horrid "Live Service" model they've been using for games like New Horizons, Mario Tennis, or Mario Golf. If they release the game with 5 characters, 5 Karts, and 4 cups, I will yell into the abyss.

Edited on by VoidofLight

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

StuTwo

Bolt_Strike wrote:

You can't force the entire game to be a "pure arcade party game" if you want it to be broadly appealing. It needs to be different things to different people. The casual players need it to be an arcade party game, but the hardcore players also need to be able to win based on their skill. Mario Kart is currently failing at that. They can, and need to, balance the two. This isn't mutually exclusive.

Except Mario Kart 8 clearly is clearly very broadly appealing. It's the absolute poster child for it - it's critically acclaimed by the gaming media and it's sold about 40 million units. You simply can't do that without being broadly appealing. Infact I'm struggling to think of a single game that has ever squared that circle quite as well as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.

Part of that appeal is that it does reward technical skill (and feels satisfying to play for skilled players) but the randomness occasionally allows even poor players to win out. It's an inherent part of the game - if the best players always won or there was a higher skill ceiling (as in Smash) then it would start to work against the appeal.

Which is a mistake. They're leaving money on the table by not making it a game that technically skilled players can also enjoy. If they need to level the playing field they should just do what Smash does and implement a handicap mode.

I think the thing with Mario Kart is that technically skilled players do enjoy it. It does feel satisfying to pull off extra speed boost after extra speed boost and it does give you an advantage - even if there's always the chance that a bit of bad luck can wipe away all your good work. I think part of the reason MK 8 has been so successful is that it got the balance right for the majority of players.

Personally I'd prefer to play a single player game with as much polish as MK8 that more explicitly rewards my technical skill and strategy (like, say, DKR did on the N64) but then the game that does that is probably a game that sells 10 million instead of 40 or 50 million.

The kids will just spend their money on whatever looks cool, and if they need more coins, they can just play the game some more. I fail to see how this will slow things down, especially in comparison to the nonsensical RNG unlocking system we have now.

My own kids take an age too-ing and fro-ing between different wheels and karts. It takes ages and one child can slow the whole experience down. A shop is that taken to the nth degree and there would 100% be immediate tears at some point if one of them spent all the accumulated coins on something the other didn't want.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea but Mario Kart is a very communal game and I wouldn't personally see it as a selling point.

If it works for other games it can work for Mario Kart. Mario Kart is not unique or special in that regard.

I don't doubt that regular "events", customisation skins and FOMO driven stuff would work to get some players to play Mario Kart even more regularly. I just think that whole model is dreadful - it plays on the psychology of addiction and I'd argue it often makes many players enjoy a game less and have a worse time (even as they might end up playing it more).

If a game doesn't need those things (and the sales and continued interest in playing the game suggests that Mario Kart 8 doesn't need those things) then it's usually detrimental to add them.

People are hungry for a new Mario Kart game because they've been playing MK8 for 4 years (and some people who bought the original Wii U version have been playing it for 7 years) and they're bored with it and want new Mario Kart content.

...and "people" are showing this hunger by continuing to buy MK8 in big numbers and ensuring that it is still the most popular Switch game to play online and in local multiplayer...

Still - it's all just opinions and we can all enjoy our gaming however we like!

I expect that at some point Nintendo will give us a Mario Kart 9 and I hope that the years spent playing and reflecting on the game allow Nintendo's devs to come up with something even better. Personally I'm in no rush for them to give it us because on my Switch Mario Kart 8 is enough for me and I'm not sure I'd buy MK9 on Switch however good it is (same with Splatoon 3 TBH).

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Grumblevolcano

@VoidofLight I think the only ways the next mainline Mario Kart could be live service is if either it's FTP (like Mario Kart Tour) or if the next console has no backwards compatibility. The lowest expectation for content at launch for the next mainline Mario Kart if it's paid would be the same amount of content as MK8 Deluxe, if that's not met people will just continue playing MK8 Deluxe.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

Anti-Matter

@Bolt_Strike
Speaking about Mario Kart games, i think Nintendo should learn from Modnation Racers on PS3 & PS Vita to make more attractive kart racing game with a lot of customizations.
I still see nobody ever mentioned about Modnation Racers here.

Anti-Matter

VoidofLight

@Grumblevolcano I mean, New Horizons, Mario Tennis, and Mario Golf were all paid releases, and they got away with it. I could see 9 being different, mainly because of what you said, but that's only if Nintendo decides they want 9 to come this gen. If they don't, and wait until the next big console, then chances are there's nothing stopping them.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

Grumblevolcano

@VoidofLight Those are the only Animal Crossing, Mario Tennis and Mario Golf games you can buy on the Switch though. I don't think New Horizons would've done as well as it did with its live service approach if Nintendo ported New Leaf to Switch sometime prior to New Horizons' launch. Unless the Switch's successor doesn't have backwards compatibility, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe will be playable on it.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

Euler

@Bolt_Strike Many games of skill have some random elements (poker, backgammon, etc). In the long run better players will still win more (and randomness can be partially controlled for by playing multiple games in a match, for instance).

Anecdotally, I used to work for a fairly large government agency that had a semiannual Mario Kart 8 tournament. The three tournaments that were held while I was there, the same person won each time.

See also: John Numbers.

Edited on by Euler

Euler

Octane

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Yes it does because of human nature. Repeat something over and over again and it becomes less fun. That's why we have new games in the first place instead of just playing NES games for 30 years

Sports and board games are older than sliced bread, and people still participate in those. People don't release a new version of chess every year because people get bored with it. Some things just don't get boring.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

People are hungry for a new Mario Kart game because they've been playing MK8 for 4 years (and some people who bought the original Wii U version have been playing it for 7 years) and they're bored with it and want new Mario Kart content.

People are so bored with Mario Kart 8 that it's still one of the best selling Switch games. Right. As of now, Nintendo has absolutely no incentive to release a new Mario Kart. If we're getting a new Switch in 2023 or whenever, I'm certain they want to save the Mario Kart 9 release to coincide with that new console.

Octane

VoidofLight

Probably won’t get a new system until 2025 at the earliest, given Nintendo can’t make consoles at the moment. @Octane

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

VoidofLight

@Octane The chip shortage that makes it impossible for Nintendo to even manufacture normal switches at the moment. It'll probably last for a few more years, given they said 2022 would be better, then went back on that saying that 2022 is going to be even worse for the shortage.

Edited on by VoidofLight

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

jump

@VoidofLight your maths seem abit off to declare the 2025 as the very earliest. After 2022 comes 2023 and then 2024 before you get to 2025. ;p

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812 | 3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

GrailUK

Switch has 4 more years, guys. If they can't make enough then it could be 5! Their next console is so far away it's not even worth thinking about.*

*reverse psychology. If we stop mentioning it, they will anounce it O.<

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

Magician

I feel I'm trapped in some sort of purgatory. My Switch collection is substantial, to the point where I feel numb to any potential announcements outside of miracle-ports or personal favorites being made available on the Switch. Nintendo could drop a trailer for MK9 tomorrow and I'd be like, "oh, more of that? Cool...I guess." Apathy at its finest.

But...if say The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay were announced for Switch, well then I'd be rather excited. Talk about a game trapped in licensing hell. Worse off than Goldeneye 64, seriously.

Edited on by Magician

Switch Physical Collection - 1,260 games (as of June 15th, 2024)
Favorite Quote: "Childhood is not from birth to a certain age and at a certain age the child is grown, and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

VoidofLight

I'm the exact opposite. It really doesn't feel like I've gotten my money's worth of my switch purchase yet. There's only a slight handful of games that Nintendo came out with that I actually enjoyed, with so many of the others getting ruined by Nintendo actively sabotaging them for evergreen sales.

"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."

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