Topic: Monster Hunter Rise

I wonder what the chances are of MHR getting a second physical release with all updates plus Sunbreak on cartridge? Probably slim to none. But I wouldn't hesitate to double dip if it were to happen.

@Magician
I'd buy it again just to have it all on cart as a MH fan.

But I'm OK with it just being a DLC expansion too. Lot of ppl complained on 3DS they had to buy the entire game over again, and asked why they couldn't buy the Ultimate version as a DLC expansion. Which is exactly how they do it now, so.

I missed on the MHGU sale last time because it was physical only, but now the digital version is on sale and I’m thinking of grabbing it, anyone either interested in starting a fresh hunter and joining this GU noob on their journey or picking up the game and playing together?

@Pizzamorg
I believe @Snatcher was doing a new playthrough of MHGU.

But it's a game where you want to download MHGU DB app so you know which Quests are key to progress, download all the optional DLC from main menu to help negate early game grind, and go in with a mindset of a much slower pace, more time spent with preparation and gathering, and more hunts to get the items you need.

It's an amazing game though. I'll play G rank if you ever work your way up there

Yeah, I’ve been watching a bunch of videos which sort of set expectations of all the things you are going to miss from World, but all the other things you’ll gain as well. I had played a a couple of Monster Hunter games before World, but only when I was younger and I am pretty sure there had been almost a decade where I hadn’t played a MH game at all, before World.

As such, I didn’t realise or really remember and notice how much Rise actually returned to a more classic structure for the game. IE village quests, hub quests, gathering quests, quests balanced for solo and multiplayer and just less of a hunt and more of a fight. Like some of these videos make it sound like a bad thing, but I think one of the worst parts of World was these huge, labyrinthine maps you had to keep traipsing through during a fight. It was tedious and frustrating. Rise basically removes it entirely and it looks like there is some of that in GU, but once you’ve found the monster you just fight in their zone until one of you is left standing. Sounds good to me.

Likewise, I really found it pretty frustrating in World how fragmented hubs were, even after hundreds of hours remembering exactly where everything was was pretty annoying and there is just so much stuff I would have probably either never found or known what to do with had I not had someone with me who knew his way around. With Kamura in Rise, everything is really condensed, which might sound bad, but it just makes it way more convenient. I don’t miss things like bounties, or having an individual vendor for absolutely everything, or having different vendors be up massive flights of stairs or on opposite ends of large spaces or whatever else or having to load into quests and then fire an SOS and all this other crap. That has nothing to do with GU, just thought I’d get it off my chest while we are here.

I am honestly not really too worried about having more game with GU. My issue with Rise is the way in which new monsters were paced just wasn’t good in my opinion, the game was very front loaded and it just got thinner and thinner as the game went along, until you go to basically a non-existent endgame with basically nothing new to discover, so you just sort of had to make your own fun. I know this is fine for some, as it was for World, but I really need a game to give me a goal. If it is asking me to make my own goals, I will just go and play something else. If I move slower through GU, but I get to keep discovering new monsters and new gear, then that is fine with me.

And I will say one thing I did like about Rise is generally it seemed to respect your time more, I remember how absolutely absurd the grind was for some things in World and while some people may tell you that is part of the fun, to me, fighting the same monster over and over and over and over and over and over and over just trying to get that last material to make your piece is not a fun loop, at all. And I have had my expectations set that GU might be even stingier than World when it comes to parts, so that part of the pacing I am not really much looking forward to.

Rise, for the most part, made sure you could make most of what you wanted after a couple of encounters, so you could then just move on, you weren’t locked into just fighting the same monster for what felt like endless periods. Like I say, I do think Rise could have probably held a few monsters back to make the HR journey a little more interesting in the last third or so of the game, especially when it suddenly requires the longest grind yet to get to the final monster, with absolutely nothing new to incentivise you to make the climb, but I just think overall Rise was tuned and streamlined in such a way that it is the right step forwards for the franchise, even if the diehards who want a thousand hours of treadmill running on the spot think otherwise.

I’ve had this “argument” with so many fans in a lot of genres over the years, so I know we’ll never agree on this, but to me I’d much rather play a game that is five hours long and all content, than play a 200 hour game which is the same five hours of content spread over those 200 hours, so it is just 99 percent filler. I don’t agree more is better. It is why I much prefer something like say Skyward Sword over Breath of the Wild. I want more game, even if it means less play hours overall, because walking to a location is not game to me.

Talking of that, I ended up playing Wrestling Empire for the rest of the day, so I still need those final HRs and that final monster. Let me know if you or @Snatcher are up for grinding some Apex Rampages tomorrow, and then to face the final monster. I think somewhere between 3 and 7 rampages and I should have finally reached the summit of this HR grind mountain.

@Pizzamorg Well i'm around at the moment, just say the word.

@Pizzamorg
I love World. It’s one of my favorite games of all time. And I love the maps and how immersive the world is… but, the Ancient Forest was overload with the labyrinth design. I still don’t know my way around it. It had like 4 levels, it was too much. It was impressive, and don’t get me wrong I still love it, but I do prefer the design style of the Rise maps more, even if they aren’t as graphically impressive.

And yes, we’re 100% on the same page with the hub being too big and inconvenient to use between each quest. Kamura is perfect. I do think they went a tad overboard with farming via the submarines- I liked the farm fertilizer and catalyst, but overall it was so much better.

Balancing the grind is difficult because everyone has different preferences. I love the rare loot grind, fighting a monster over and over trying to get that orb or gem, because once you get it and craft that weapon or armor set it feels earned. When I play MP and others see my set, there’s a sense of pride in accomplishment that doesn’t come with easy to farm sets. But I don’t like it too hard. I loved old world grind, but after World and now Rise, I’ve gotten pampered with easier loot. I think Rise came pretty close to perfect. Late game elder dragons and harder monsters still could require 5+ hunts to get an orb, which at 12 min per hunt is an hour. Feels about right. In old world, lemme tell ya… lemme tell ya. In MH3U, I spent 48 hours straight farming a single Cloudy Moonshard from Lucent Nargacuga (a giant poison Nargacuga that could turn invisible and was fought in a special night time arena), and I hunted with these Germans all weekend over voice chat, and none of us got one until Sunday evening. It was the hardest drop in the game. I still have nightmares over that cloudy moonshard.

And, I don’t actually disagree, generally speaking, about more content and less filler. But I do like grind and I think when it’s well-balanced in a game where the combat is fun and the challenge is engaging, the grind is what makes the game addictive- that continual effort to get something rare that feels “earned”. Back in the old world, when a Hunter joined your lobby in a full Glavenus set, it commanded respect. Because you knew they earned it with raw skill and perseverance. I do think there is a line that can be crossed where it becomes too much, but when balanced correctly it makes the most addictive video games I’ve ever played. For the record, I loved Breath of the Wild. The constant sense of discovery through exploration, finding shrines and leveling up stamina and HP, that was the hook. Other games, it becomes overbearing. Some do, some don’t. All comes down to how fun the gameplay is, really.

I’m down. After rampages and Valstrax, I have some event quests for Teostra, Bazelgeuse, and a bunch of Apexes, 4 of which are Emergency Apex quests and are the hardest quests in the game.

So I made it to Valstrax, sadly I can’t find any multiplayer matches doing the quest. I tried loading my own, leaving it open, but two people fainted and then both immediately left afterwards? So I just abandoned it.

@Pizzamorg
Let's roll. 5477

Well that is Valstrax conquered… kinda. Right at the end it flew off to a location I think I’ve only ever been once and totally forgot about. By the time I realised/figured it out, it was dead. Oh well. As I was saying to @JaxonH after the fight, set seems strong but also odd. I didn’t look at the gem slots before I switched my Switch off for the night, but I have to assume it has enough gem slots or requires a good enough talisman that you can slot in the specific skills you need for the weapon you’re using, otherwise it seems very strong, but sorta too general to really be viable?

@Pizzamorg
x3 1-slots
x3 2-slots
x2 3-slots

Thats pretty good for slots. With a Talisman, Talisman slots and weapon slots, you could add a couple more skills.

I, however, think it's better to craft as layered armor and wear over a mix set for aesthetics. I'm not really a fan of the skills on the Valstrax set, aside from the skill that activates a form of Dragonblight and sets all your elemental resistances to 50. Then, pair with Valstrax Switch Axe.

Gonna need an orb to craft the final form of the weapon, though.

Also, Hunting Horn doesn't really require extra skills aside from Horn Maestro, which a single gem can take care of. The Rampage Horn is the best in the game, if you set rampage skills to be Sharpness Type III, Dragon IV and Healing Melody II. The songs will be Health Recovery (L), Health Regeneration and Earplugs (L). Just using the Horn constantly heals you. It's so good.

The Narwa Horn also has both those healing skills alongside Negate Stun, but it requires a few points in Handicraft to make blue sharpness viable.

Yeah, I ran the Hunting Horn for a while. I really like how Rise streamlined the horn and made it very strong. I think it was mostly the Magnamalo horn I ended up using. Only downside with that one was how it negated knock back, flinch etc but not the damage, so I think I ended up killing a few people as they had no idea they were taking damage, lol.

People always said the Rampage horn was the best one, but in terms of damage, sharpness and skills it doesn’t really compare to some of the others out there, unless your single focus is just healing I guess, so I never really understood it. I actually find it funny, because I feel like the Horn’s counterpart, the hammer was one of the few weapons Rise really made more complicated, rather than less.

At least if you want the full potential by juggling forms and making full use of ariel attacks. And while I am sure high skill players they can do really special things with it, for most you’ll get just as much bonkage out of the HH, but it’s easier to use and it buffs your team.

@Pizzamorg
The damage on Rampage Horn might not be the highest in the game but it's plenty high enough- easily top 5% of the game in its final upgraded form, and all rampage weapons can have their sharpness customized. All my rampage weapons have half their sharpness bar of solid blue. Never even need Razor Sharp or Handicraft, which opens up slots for even more skills. You can give it white sharpness but it's a small amount. I'd rather have a massive blue bar.

If you can beat everything in the game, then a healing horn doesn't make sense, but for harder quests, such as the Apex Quests, elder dragons, the Emergency Apex Quests and gold crown Magnamalo quest, especially playing solo, it can help you get through quests you would otherwise cart in. Plus G-Rank is coming, and surviving until the first armor set can be crafted will drastically increase with a quality healing horn.

I actually cannot remember the name of the horn, it is like pink and green and looks like a lollipop. Well I would use that horn, combined with the silk bind skill where you put the ball down and amplify your song/give attack up. That had like nothing but healing and other like defensive buff stuff on it and when I just couldn’t really be bothered in a fight but really need something, I’d just put my ball down and twirl around in the background of a fight healing/buffing everyone but not really fighting directly. It was probably absolutely worthless, but I had a great time. Lol.

I think that is one thing that is kind of a shame in MH. While weapons do have their own individual identities, I’d honestly really like more of a class based system. I know you can sorta imitate classes, but you can’t really do it fully/properly. Having like a tank drawing aggro, someone focusing on damage, another focusing on CC/debuffs etc and then someone just on healing and buffs I think would be really fun.

One of the only games where I’ve really pushed to the absolute hardest of difficulties out of choice and for the fun of it were the Division games, as they allowed you to spec into very singular roles and the team synergy that creates is just really special. Since Rise is generally on the easier side and because of the wirebug, you don’t really need to every much care what anyone else is running, everyone can just wail on the monster with the same weapon and set and it’ll be fine. On the one hand that is a good thing because it means you can just run whatever, but I do kinda wish I could have a more defined role sometimes beyond just “are you hitting the head or the tail?”.

@Pizzamorg
MH has never been the kind of game with class roles. The only role is "damage dealer". How is up to you.

That's not to say you can't strategize. Cutting weapon wielders do well pairing with blunt weapon wielders to cut tails and break heads and horns. Bow(gun) users do well pairing with other ranged weapon users and can work to stunlock monsters. Stuff like that.

It's just not a game suited for roles. Everyone is expected to equally contribute. And that's what makes it accessible to so many ppl and equal parts single player and multi-player. Any game which focuses on roles does not do well as a single player game without utilizing AI partners and making it a pure co-op experience.

I enjoy that kind of stuff sometimes, but not in every game.

Oh ya, I appreciate that. The game is just a game of whether you use a blunt, a sharp or a ranged and which body part you need to hit. And there is nothing wrong with that formula, I just think it would just be what takes the games to the next level, for me. I think the one of the few negatives I’d have to say with Rise is just how simplified the gear system is. If the gear system was more complex, with the ability to craft more focused builds, that is just my niche. I know it would go against the general design ethos of Rise to go in that direction, so I recognise why they didn’t do it. Just saying for me.

And I don’t really get your point about equal contribution? The whole point in a class based system is everyone is equally contributing, but by doing different things. Not just everyone doing damage.

And in regards to what that would mean for single player… eh. There are plenty of games with much more complex loot systems than MH that are still perfectly viable in single player. Maybe not the absolute hardest of hardest content, but other than for the 1% neither is MHs hardest content viable solo, either. It just all depends on individual balance.

@Pizzamorg
Equally contribute dealing damage, is what I meant.

The reason it would bork single player is, well, let me give two examples. You suggested a tank build, and you suggested healing (or if you didn't, that seems implied for roles). In a group that can work, but single player, a tank would be OP if they can also deal the same damage. So they'd have to be severely nerfed. Which means they just tank hits and never damage the monster. That weapon class is ruined. Then for healing, same thing. Can't be OP by healing and dealing damage the same, so damage would be severely nerfed. Which again results in tanking hits and Super long hunts. That weapon class gets ruined.

It just doesn't work for single player without AI companions for balance, and that's a whole other game. I appreciate what you're saying, certainly an interesting idea. I just don't think it would fit for MH.

Yeah, I guess I’ll agree to disagree, as I’ve seen other games do exactly what you are talking about and it works just fine for single player. It may be slower to go non damage, but not non-viably slower. And generally single player isn’t the focus of these sorts of games, anyway.

I personally think it’d be an excellent fit for MH and really take it to the next level. Almost all of the parts are already there, they just need to be leaned into.

@Pizzamorg
I think you'd be surprised how many ppl play single player. The overwhelming majority for sure.

But, that's not how it is, so...

Maybe, I dunno. I’ve always played MH in groups, I think it is a significantly better game with others and not very fun solo, which is why I think a proper class based system would be great.