Topic: Mario Strikers Battle League

@StarPoint Put it this way, say there's this fan who is obsessed with a certain character and wants to play every game that has them in it, and isn't really interested in any other content that doesn't involve said character. For multiplayer games that likely means that they aren't interested in going up against other players and potentially getting destroyed a lot, nor training to overcome that. So when they go through whatever brief single-player content there is involving that character, can you really say they got 60$ worth out of the game?

Ok, I played the demo's training mode, and right off the bat, I'm absolutely awful at it. There's a ton of mechanics to wrap my head around, not to mention it's my very first time playing a Mario Strikers game to begin with. I'll still play the online when that becomes available, but I may have to practice for a bit longer to stand a chance.

LOL.

I had this exact same experience.

I went through the first couple of tutorial sections and was like 'alright, this feels pretty good'.

Then they just started layering mechanic onto mechanic onto mechanic all on the same handful of buttons. Things were starting to slip, but I was dealing with it.

Then they were like, but what if you can also charge all of those mechanics as well? And now I was really sweating, trying to remember what button does what in what context since each button does like three different things and now I need to charge it as well.

AND THEN they were like... but what if you could also charge things in a right or wrong way, through tiny visual queues on that OLED screen of yours? And I basically just gave up.

Not to mention, a lot of this stuff is easier when you're just standing still and not under pressure so you can spend five minutes trying to unpack what exactly each button does and how you are meant to use it, but in basically any tutorial section where you were playing against the AI and had to also do specific things with the buttons I just got wrecked.

My hope is that at least when playing against the CPU, it is easy enough that you can just enjoy the game and just play. But my worry is with Mario Tennis Aces, they really wanted you to be a master of the mechanics in that game, you couldn't just really play casually and just enjoy the experience, you had to know your ***** and so I wonder if this will go in the same direction.

Eh. If you've played Charged, you are conditioned to brutal difficulty, simple controls or not.

@Pizzamorg Yeah things were starting to click with me very early on, it's just that things began to get super complex as I went through more of those tutorials. We'll see how things turn out once the online goes live in a week.

I was playing the tutorials there and I cannot understate how much I love the tackling and shooting in it. Charging up a shot and letting it fly into the top corner is incredibly satisfying and the raw VIOLENCE in tackling an opposing team is absolutely heart-pumping. The only thing I'm struggling with currently are perfect shots and first-time shots; it seems kind of random for me whether they work or they don't. Apart from that though, it's great. I probably won't be getting it (simply due to the fact there's too much other stuff coming out this year as well like Splatoon 3 and Pokemon Scarlet/Violet) but I definitely see the appeal of this series now. As someone who dropped off of FIFA a while back, I'm glad there's an even better football game on the horizon.

@Fizza The technique stat on your characters influences how easy it is to do a perfect anything (shot, pass, dodge etc.). Maybe you have been having more luck doing them with Mario than someone like Bowser because he along with Luigi is one of technical players. The main difficulty for me is unlearning the old "A to pass, B to shoot" controls of past games. You mentioned playing Fifa, does this game's default button layout match up with that game?

Also, this game's league is called "Galactic (Strikers) Federation"?... do I sense a weird Federation Force crossover?

@meleehunter It's been a fair few years since I actually played a FIFA game (I think the last one I actively played was 18) so I wouldn't be able to give you a fully accurate response on that. However, from what I've played of Battle League, it's a lot faster and snappier than FIFA, which is more about patience and distance in my opinion. As for the controls, since this was my first Strikers game, I took to them relatively well apart from the occasional dodge misinput. To summarise, I cannot wait for June 4th.

Also, the weird robots do make a return so those Metroid FF comparisons may not be as outlandish as first thought (if a Metroid reference can make it into Donkey Kong, I'd be quite surprised if one doesn't make it into this game as well).

@meleehunter
You could change the button mapping in the system settings if you really have a hard time with it.

@Budda It looks like you should be able to, but that doesn't seem to be available in the demo. Probably not a good idea in the long run anyway given we now have separate buttons for ground and lob passes..

@Pizzamorg yeah I'm not a fan of the tutorial, it doesn't help that it has a time limit. I reminds me when I wanted to try out MK 11 and went through the tutorial and I deleted the game immediately after it lol. Don't get me wrong, I like that there's a lot of depth but this is not the way to introduce the game's mechanics imo.

Just playing around and having fun will resolve most issues anyone thinks they have when playing the demo.

@JoyBoy Well, it's not like the tutorials will roadblock you if you can't fully complete their "final exams". And I very much doubt perfect passes and one-timers are things one will just naturally figure out by playing. But I do agree that players shouldn't stress too much about not being able to do the advanced stuff consistently right away, it's not like they're always necessary, or even always the best option in the case of tackling. As it is, you get detailed explanations, then risk-free scenarios to test them before being put in a more active environment to see how well you can do them under pressure.

The only thing I didn't like in the tutorial is how strict they are in what constitutes a proper dodge. Look, I don't care how "early" I was, as long as I didn't get hit that should be good enough. And in the "proper match" segments you have to go out of your way to goad the CPUs to try and tackle you when their normal AI seems bent on not doing so unless they're absolutely sure you can't do anything about it.

@meleehunter It's good that it's there , I agree. It's not a good introduction though.

Maybe I just got bad luck but the CPU, while I was trying to get my bearings, was constantly scoring which didn't help. I just don't understand why the harsh time limit is there. Are we trying to learn here or achieve a score?

Anyway, this looks to be a great game and an obvious buy for with family and friends.

I do agree. Having like 3 minutes to complete 9 ultra specific things, while the AI is just able to freely play, felt more like a punishment than a tutorial.

But this is sorta what I mean in general. If in the live game we can just play and not have to stress about all this stuff, then I'm not too concerned, as things will come in time. And I think the foundational basic base stuff actually feels really good.

However, in Mario Tennis Aces (my nearest equivalent), if you just wanted to play that game, you couldn't really. Not even really against the AI. Not if you just wanted to play it as a tennis game, because even if you are the better player in the moment to moment tennis stuff, if someone breaks your racket it is over, regardless of what they have done in the match so far. They had designed the game in such a way that it was more important to learn the Aces mechanics and less important to actually be good at the tennis gameplay.

I think that was the downfall of this game and fear this game going in the same direction. That if you aren't maximising all your perfectly charged moves and team combo things, you're going to lose, even if you are playing the actual better football match in the moment to moment.

@Pizzamorg The animation is great and I agree, it feels super fun to play.

You are talking about online play/ranked? Personally I wouldn't worry too much about that. This game has so many more variables at play. But yeah, every competitive game, given enough time, will be susceptible to the things you mentioned. Maybe Nintendo will keep a close watch and bring out patches accordingly.

@meleehunter
I actually mean the Button Mapping in your System Settings of your Konsole.
(System Settings > Controllers and Sensors > Change Button Mapping)

@Pizzamorg Wasn't there always a classic mode that lets you not play with any the zone shots or breakable rackets?

Did you know the original also had a "perfect pass" mechanic? It worked differently (you had to pass from one of the corners to a teammate in front of the opposing goal, and this let you do a stronger "combo shot"), but it shows the concept is not exactly unheard of. I don't see how anything here isn't some refinement or tweak of what has come before, instead of some overwhelming new mechanic overshadowing the core gameplay. And all of it can be stopped if you're willing to get your hands dirty with hits and items.

There might have been a classic mode in Tennis Aces. Still doesn't really change my point though, if anything, it is enforcing it, as you are tied to one mode out of dozens.

Also, I, like many others here, have never played a Strikers game before. So my opinion isn't shaped by what came before, just by how much I liked the mechanics (or didn't) on their own merits.

But like others have said, we'll have to see how much this smothers the game, or whether it is better balanced between mechanics and play than Tennis Aces was.

I think one of the best/creepiest things in this game is the damn-near perfect lipsync each character now has. Hearing Wario say 'Oh baby!' with his mouth actually saying those words is both incredible and terrifying, I love it.

@Fizza The animations by Next-Level Games are second to none. They have some absolutely stellar animators. It's one of the reasons why I'm so excited for it, to just bask in the greatness that is the characters' celebratory and defeat animations.