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Topic: Super Mario 3D All-Stars

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Zeldafan79

@Rexenoboy
Mario 64 used to give me motion sickness. You talk about your brain couldn't process galaxy? Mario 64 was the first 3D game i ever played and seeing that for the first time nearly melted my brain. I'm like whoa cool 3D mario lemmie play! Lemmie play! Soon after i was looking for a barf bag! Maybe it was the terrible camera bouncing and jerking all over the place.

Zeldafan79

BlueOcean

I've talked about the Mario games already but, in short, Super Mario 3D Land and 3D World are 2D Mario in 3D and as such, they are fun. Super Mario Odyssey, if it wasn't called Mario, would be just another 3D platformer failed attempt (like Breath of the Wild would be an Assassin's Creed-Monster Hunter clone without The Legend of Zelda name), full of hidden moons and like someone said with no secrets at all. Boring enemies, bosses, mini games and possessions and with some decent platforming sections here and there and nothing in between. Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are linear action games more than 3D platformers and they have two things I don't like, motion controls and small planets that are almost guaranteed to give motion sickness to a big part of the population but I admit that they are fun, if more Sonic than Mario. Super Mario Sunshine is the most cohesive, epic, challenging and fun Mario 3D game. Super Mario 64 is balanced, it has the platforming, it has the exploration, it has the fun mission-based stars and it also has the limitations attached to being one of the first 3D platformers.

BlueOcean

damien33ad

Just gave up on Sunshine. Screw that game. Died for like the 10th time because the game didn't register I hot the jump button. That and the awful controls of flood that you need to fight every single boss I'm over it. The reviewers we're all right. The game sucks

damien33ad

Octane

@BlueOcean I know, but that's what I think of when he said swamp.

@damien33ad Git gud boy. I managed to 100% it with ease. And I'm terrible at video games.

Octane

BlueOcean

@Octane I just didn't know what he meant and I know that you just wanted to figure it out 😊. It's going to be my first Super Mario Sunshine playthrough in many years. I was about to beat it again last year and this year but I suspected that Nintendo would remaster it (I was hoping too much).

BlueOcean

rallydefault

@BlueOcean
Man, I couldn't agree with you more about Odyssey. It was such a disappointment for me. One of very few Nintendo games that I couldn't wait for it to be over. And now being able to go back and play 64 right on my Switch, my opinion about Odyssey is further solidified.

I never owned a Wii so I hadn't played Galaxy until I gave it a shot with Collection. It's...ok. I don't know. I'm not a motion control person, so it's kind of putting a wet blanket over what otherwise seems like a nice game.

Honestly, though, I left Galaxy after just a few hours to play 64. All of these games are "simple" in relation to modern games, but I love how 64 is just the core mechanics and nothing gussied up about it. No motion gimmicks or Fludd or anything... just Mario's basic 3D moveset and classic little worlds to conquer. People say nostalgia makes the old games seem better in our memories, but so far I'm loving 64 just as much as I did when I was a kid (I don't own the DS remake, so it really has been however many years since I sold my N64).

rallydefault

BlueOcean

@rallydefault Yep, Super Mario 64 is pure platforming and exploration and feels more epic than the "odyssey". As you said, it's basic in a good sense. It's not nostalgia, it's focused, it's still fun to play and since its only flaws are technical a remake would prove why it's so much better than Odyssey 🙂.

BlueOcean

Beaucine

@rallydefault

I agree, and I never really played 64 back in the day. Or rather, I sort of did: I borrowed a cartridge from a friend, picked his save file, died a few times in the appropriately-named Lethal Lava Land, and rage-quit within an hour. Not the most aspicious memory of it.

Now as an adult I'm more patient and I can appreciate what the game is doing. Last night I got to the (apparently) dreaded Wet-Dry World and I just marveled at the concept of it. When I discovered the underground city I giggled with glee. There's this great mix of pure platforming, exploration, and puzzle-solving. No filler, every star is its own little adventure.

By now I'm more or less used to the camera, though there are still times it screws me over. You do have to sort of work with it and forgive the game because it was doing so many of these things for the first time. But the core of the experience is remarkable. And it's a tough game, it demands things of me. Ledges are white-knuckle moments.

I don't mind the "simplicity" of these old games. I think a lot of modern games are, frankly, over-designed. (I just finished Control on my PC and it's awesome, but there's so much needless stuff in it, a glut of weapon mods and needle-in-a-haystack fetch quests, which bog down the whole. It could've done with some trimming around the edges.) Also, many old games are only seemingly simple: the way you interact with a level in Mario 64 or Doom can actually be fairly sophisticated. It's just that this interaction is very, very immediate. Just you and your moveset, with very little menu-digging or ability trees to worry about.

Obviously a lot of indie games have caught on to this: Journey is a good example, which favors an experience that's as minimalistic and immediate as possible. (Though the platforming isn't as good as Mario 64, not even close.) And in the AAA space, you have experiments like Death Stranding, which exaggerate menu-digging to the point of self-aware art. You even have little AirBnB rooms peppered around the world just so you can rest up and... dig through menus. But that's Kojima for you. Most AAA developers aren't as cheeky about their own mechanics. They just follow trends.

Beaucine

App

@BlueOcean Even if I think Odyssey is a lot better then you think, I 100% agree with your points. 64 had that "whatever I want" vibe to it. You could do this world. Got tired of it? Here's another. Too hard? Amazing. We just so happen to have another painting.

Even if Odyssey had something similar to that, you had to do the kingdoms in the games way. Felt more like 3D World than anything.

App

Switch Friend Code: SW-2940-3286-4610 | My Nintendo: Pikmin4 | Twitter:

BlueOcean

@Beaucine Agreed. The filler menus make me sick, lately. The new Tomb Raider games found a perfect balance in that sense.

@Apportal Besides, I'll never forgive Super Mario Odyssey for not including the whole Mushroom Kingdom castle! 😜

BlueOcean

link3710

The more I play Mario 64, the more I want to vent about it. Not the controls or the camera (those are excusable), but the poor gameplay design. Mainly surrounding the 100 coin stars. My usual pattern is:

1. Complete stars until I get to the red coin star.
2. Recomplete every challenge before and after so I can get all the coins, walking past every star along the way to get the 100 coin star
3. Circle back around to get the red coin star.

While there's variations (100 coins were done on the Secret of the Pyramid and Inside the Volcano levels for Shifting Sand Land / Lethal Lava Land), the bigger problem is most of the time you have to repeat most/all of what you do to earn each star in order to get all the coins. Admittedly, some levels have enough left over that you don't have to do that, but others (like Jolly Rogers Bay or Hazy Maze Cave) cut the coin count so tight you need to get almost every coin in a single run.

It's a lot like collecting notes in the original Banjo-Kazooie, which also left a poor taste in my mouth, albeit less frustrating... generally. Though, there's also the second issue with 100 coin stars: It's possible to spawn them somewhere unreachable. So suddenly, you have to scour the level without touching any remaining coins until you can find a coin that's good. And if you mess up, you have to run all the way back from the castle entrance unless you purposefully take a death.

Honestly, I never did the 100 coin stars as a kid, but I'm starting to regret my decision to finally 100% this game. These stars are more frustrating than fun, especially since I'm trying to go for as close to max coins as possible.

And all this is on top of the problem of stars that make you repeat earning previous stars to get them. Notably, it's a huge issue in Tick Tock Clock, Snowman's Land, Tall Tall Mountain and Rainbow Ride from what I remember (Which is why I still haven't bothered unlocking the 2nd or 3rd floor despite being over 70 stars), but even in the first 2/3 of the game, things like making you swim all the way over to the second area in Dire Dire Docks 4 times in a row, or climb the inside of the pyramid twice in Shifting Sand Lands feel like needless padding.

link3710

rallydefault

@BlueOcean
A proper Mario 64 remaster for the Switch (or Switch 2...ha) would be the best 3D platformer on any system, in my opinion.

@Beaucine
That was an excellent post. It seems we have a similar taste in games and we're also at similar points in our lives.

@link3710
You're correct from a technical standpoint, but I would be intrigued to know your gaming pedigree.

I'm in my 30s now, and my most hardcore gaming years were probably the N64-PS-PS2 eras. From my memory, a lot of games had design at least somewhat similar; retreading areas in Metal Gear Solid comes to mind as something I spent a lot of time doing. I never considered it "padding," rather just... I don't know, getting to know the game. Back then I feel like games were fewer and further between, so people generally lingered in games longer and really got to know them. It wasn't a bother to know the worlds front and back because hey, this was one of the only games you were probably gonna be playing for the next few months, so why not?

rallydefault

BlueOcean

@link3710 My man, listen, you are complicating things. Forget about the seventh star, whenever you are doing any mission and you have a decent amount of coins (60 or more) just find more coins and get the seventh star (also known as 100th-coin star) before getting the regular star. You can get both stars and it usually works perfectly fine during the red coins mission. Just don't get the 100th coin on Tall Tall Mountain's slide. I always get over 120 coins in most levels, the only tricky one is Dire Dire Docks which has fewer coins that any other.

rallydefault wrote:

I never considered it "padding," rather just... I don't know, getting to know the game. Back then I feel like games were fewer and further between, so people generally lingered in games longer and really got to know them. It wasn't a bother to know the worlds front and back because hey, this was one of the only games you were probably gonna be playing for the next few months, so why not?

Exactly this and I'd add that in Super Mario 64 it is never a chore to do it because the worlds aren't huge and Mario moves very well so exploring is fun. I even think that Mario swims best in Super Mario 64 so I was surprised when some people complained about it.

There were fewer and they were better 😁. If newcomers are rushing Super Mario 64 and Sunshine (Sunshine is the biggest Mario 3D game) they're not going to enjoy themselves.

Edited on by BlueOcean

BlueOcean

NEStalgia

I think each game is unique and you can't really gonna compare them. I never liked 64 in the 90s. Coming from 2d Mario it all felt very wrong, like rex said. Later, it aged poorly. The touched up details this time let me appreciate it more. The camera blows and nothing can fix that. But the world and sounds are one of a kind, Mario's wide turn radius grows on you. It's a compact little doll world and the design is tight. It's a little bubble in time, even if you have no nostalgia for it.

Sunshine is just broken in many areas, but there's something about it. It was ahead of it's time in a number of ways and really feels like nothing else. Never played out until now, and it feels both dated and brand new all at once. And the world is a delight.

Galaxy is just galaxy. It's perfection for what it is, but it's more of a 2d style "pole to win" kind of game. That's not a bad thing. And the world is so special.

3d world is literally a 2.5d game. I don't think that's one that belongs in the comparison. It's it's own subseries more like 2d Mario meets 64.

I seem to be the only one here that loves odyssey. It was a good world, moons were abundant but that doesn't mean the hard ones weren't still hard. Fun world, fun exploration, just played a bit different from the 64 formula.

NEStalgia

1UP_MARIO

@BlueOcean your completely right about the tricky one being dire dire docks. Also the hazy maze cave is tricky if you don’t get all the blue coins

We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

Switch Friend Code: SW-5229-5058-9308

link3710

Honestly, I'm gonna finish this 100% run so I can finally say I've 100%ed every 3D Mario (since I only made it to 117 stars as a kid) then probably never touch SM64 again. I'd much rather do another run of Galaxy 2 or Sunshine or 3D World or Odyssey instead than go into this game again.

link3710

BlueOcean

@1UP_MARIO They have to know that Hazy Maze Cave is tricky because you can easily go the wrong direction and the blue coins don't appear in plain sight. I'd go to the maze first and then exit it. As a child, it seemed almost impossible to escape the maze 😂.

BlueOcean

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