What I see going here is buyers REmorse not real adjective perspective. One can sit back and be a quarterback Couch Potato while doing not more then just spouting NintenDoomed fandom instead. The very fact BOTW got awards and you didn't just make it more likely this is a disgrunted gamer then any real substance to be had. The Allocates and Awards BOTW got are something some can't never get so what else can they do but just try to Dismiss BOTW success. If you looked at the chart sales since it released since those are gone now it remained in the list 3+ years going on sales. So that in itself tells it's staying power and selling power. Chatters can chat all day long but that hasn't slowed BOTW sales. As to Links Awakening that is a remaster and updated and helps to showcase how a ReMaster can revitalize a old favorite popular game that many missed playing when it was released can experience it again. So again those raining on BOTW Awards what Gaming Awards have you gotten to show for yourself??????
@SwitchForce That’s true, quarterback couch potatoes like myself have no business speaking about the negative aspects of any media since we don’t have any game developing awards ourselves lol. I guess you also believe that anyone watching sports can’t criticise a sportsman either if he makes a mistake, unless he is a superior sportsman to the one who made the mistake of course, or maybe George Lucas is one of the only man in the world that can review Sci-fi movies whilst also discuss the negatives about them. The fact that so many people rate BOTW so highly is the who reason this thread was made, because whilst it’s a good game, I don’t see it anywhere near as good as a lot of people claim. Relax my friend, remove the fanboy glasses and just don’t be so uptight about the opinion of others!
@Ralizah I agree with what you said for the most part, but the problem for me is that the things you like about the game are the things that I think limit the game. It is indeed bold to build the story around the open world, and both the story and the ambient music fit perfectly into the context of Breath of the Wild. But out of that context I still find them forgettable. I definitely agree that the exploration of Hyrule can be a joy due to being able to climb anywhere, and the physics of the game have allowed the developers to get more creative with the puzzles and the player to get creative with how they tackle fights in the world.
I also think you have a point about the story telling over story itself as well given that if wanted to be reductive, we could reduce most Zelda games' plot to "Find triforce, rescue Zelda, defeat Ganon(/dorf), save Hyrule", but I don't agree that the story is a foil to structure the game; rather it helps flesh out the world you're exploring and give you a reason to care. As goofy as he is, I loved Groose in Skyward Sword, since over the course of the game, you see him develop from this cowardly bully type to a slightly cocky reliable character, and as annoying as it could be, constantly returning to Skyloft allowed you to interact with the townspeople and slowly get to know them better and see how they react to the events of the game as the story continues. Majora's Mask did this even better with the constant reliving of 3 days where you got familiar with characters such as Kafei and Anju, The Postman, and Gorman the Troupe Leader and then of course the individual struggles of characters that react as the moon slowly descends. Some evacuate, some are stubborn, some realise that they probably won't survive despite evacuating (Cremia and Romani come to mind as Cremia gives Romani Chateau Romani, a milk only for adults because Cremia thinks that Romani will not live long enough to have it otherwise, which is very dark). Despite being in smaller spaces, they felt very much alive and vibrant.
Now that may have sounded like a tangent, but what if we compare that to Breath of the Wild. What limited story there is, was told through memories. We see some brief glimpses of the champions and Zelda but for the most part, no chance for the characters to really develop beyond that, for example, we know Revali is cocky and has some sort of rivalry with Link where is he almost bitter, but why? Did Revali think he was supposed to be the Hero? (Rito Link would be a cool concept, even if in a spin-off Zelda) Was Revali disgruntled that seemingly some random hylian suddenly became so important? We will never know. Daruk is just another Goron; wants to eat rocks, proud of his strength etc but nothing unique to him except his shield which is just an ability and nothing about them. Mipha was friends with Link through childhood and seeming in love him given the Zora Armour made for Link... and that is it. Urbosa is more or less further development for Zelda. You could probably replace these characters with generic hylian soldiers and not much would change.
All these memories eventually explain why you are at the Shrine of Resurrection at the beginning of the game, but that also means that in Breath of the Wild, you are already at the end of the story. Characters in the world don't have anything to truly react to since the only proper way to advance the whole story for the world is to defeat Ganon, which then ends the game. Although there are villages, you very rarely ever need to go back to them once you have dealt with the Divine Beasts (with the exception of Tarrey Town and the construction company), because they have nothing more to contribute. You might get a new line of two from two of the characters such as the respective village elder and (for a lack of a better term) helper character (King Zora, Sidon respectively for example) after you defeat a divine beast but nothing else. Even the quest characters, you don't really see again once you have done the quest which is normally "fetch me this thing".
...That was a mouthful. I definitely agree with your ideas for a sequel; a recipe book in BOTW 2 would be more than welcome, not to mention the fishing would be so much easier than jumping into the river/lake and trying to catch the fish before they inevitably out-swim you. Whilst we are on that, I would like to explore areas like Lake Hylia more underwater (especially of the sequel is going to be in the same map as the first).
@SwitchForce I am unsure if you saw my last post as I admittedly forgot to tag you in the post, but I would like to point something out. Breath of the Wild did indeed get many awards. For example, it got Game of the Year at the Game Awards 2017, which is also conveniently the only award in the event where the general public can vote on what should win. Assuming most of them are not game developers with awards for games they have developed, going by your own logic, the award is clearly invalid as it was gifted by those who cannot hold an opinion.
Having a negative opinion about a game is not trying to dismiss a game's success, nor does one need rewards to able to criticize a game, otherwise, game reviews as a whole would not exist. Nor do sales necessarily correlate to a great game. Call of Duty sells incredibly well every year yet I am sure most would agree that they are not great games.
The final thing I have to say is even despite all OP's and my misgivings with Breath of the Wild, if you loved the game and thought it was perfect, then that is perfectly fine. You are entitled to your opinion, just as we are entitled to ours.
@rallydefault Thanks. Finding the words was difficult; in normal conversation I am not normally quick-witted enough to express what I want to say, but I got there in the end. =)
@MS7000 I've not played SS, so I won't address your point about it, but I do agree with you about Majora's Mask and the way the structure of the game helps to flesh out the world of Termina and the characters in it. Coming from OoT, which felt like an epic quest set in a wasteland (little to do in the environment; little reason to really explore; etc.), I was blown away by Majora's unique gameplay, and the way you really felt like you came to know the inhabitants of that little world over time. I actually do think it is probably the best game in the series, even if it's not quite my favorite. I really appreciate the unique approach to game design, the living world, the fact that you learned something new about it every cycle, etc.
Other 3D Zelda games aren't like this, though. They're typically adventure stories fashioned after OoT, which means a nested structure of lock-and-key game design as you poke around an "open" environment trying to find the one place you're supposed to be, or the one thing you're supposed to do, to advance the gameplay. Granted, MM is this way, too, but the vibrant world and unique gameplay masked the repetitive format.
Breath of the Wild's decentralized approach to storytelling and pacing does mean there's less structured time to get to know a cast of characters. With that said, like any Zelda game, there are a cast of fun personalities you get to know and appreciate over repeated visits, and, to be honest, the majority of characters in most Zelda games are so inconsequential to the development of the larger plot that you could also, as you said, replace them with generic Hylian soldiers without changing much of anything.
If Zelda games were like Final Fantasy games and had amazing plots or multiple characters with great character arcs that demanded some sort of structure to the broader game design, then I could understand wanting to go back to the older format. But, while your points are fair and legitimate, since Zelda games typically feature generic plots with only a few notable characters in each game, I think opening up the game design to allow for more creativity, freedom of choice, and a feeling of agency in the progression of your adventure is the better way to evolve the series.
It doesn't have to be a dichotomy, though. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't improve the quests in BotW2 (because, yes, the side-quests did suck), or make BotW2's world more dense with content and character ala Majora's Mask. To be certain, while I LOVE BotW (if you couldn't already tell, lol), Nintendo needs to take a different approach with the sequel, to some extent. Both for plot reasons (the shrines are pointless in a post-Calamity Ganon world, and you're clearly closely connected with Zelda again), and because, well, we've already played BotW. I don't want Nintendo to go back to making the same game over and over, just with slight alterations to the dungeons or themes.
@Ralizah To be fair, I should probably have chosen a different example than Majora's Mask given that is probably one of the most unique Zelda's pre-Breath of the Wild and doesn't have Zelda (bar one cutscene) or Ganondorf in it. Ultimately, it doesn't really help my point but eh, I feel like I got it across fine anyway. Indeed, no dichotomy is required between story and gameplay, I am just hoping the dev team remember this when they make BOTW 2. Either way, I am looking forward to BOTW 2.
I have a confession; I have never played a Final Fantasy game. Mixture of never crossing paths with it when I was younger and just not being too interested whenever I saw it years later. I do own 15 since I got it for cheap brand new a while ago, but I have still not played it probably because I was too busy trying other games that I had brought at the time.
@Ralizah
Who are some of the memorable characters you enjoy from BotW? I can't think of many I liked, to be honest. Maybe the King himself, actually. It's one of the few Zelda games you really interact with him (except WW...heh).
And, again, though she's largely confined to flashbacks, BotW features the best iteration of Princess Zelda in the series (aside from Skyward Sword, which, as mentioned, I can't speak to)
And, though I'm not counting him, Beedle is great as always.
I'm quite fond of that weird Zora guy who gets stuck in a tower, and then you find out he now loves jumping from tall places.
First Zora I met in the game.
Most of the minor characters have little subplots and details you can learn about by talking to and observing them. It's not Majora's Masks levels of detail, but few
of the NPCs are plain exposition signposts.
@rallydefault It's on my list, along with The Minish Cap and Spirit Tracks. I think those are the only notable Zelda games I haven't played at this point. I really liked "Tetra" in The Wind Waker until a certain plot event happens and she spends the rest of the game acting helpless, which really irritated me. I think what gets me about BotW Zelda is that she's one of the few iterations of the character who has an actually relatable character arc. I also found the idea of her holding Calamity Ganon captive to be an interesting spin on the "save the princess" theme Nintendo is so fond of toying with. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't her relationship with Link in the flashbacks to be adorable.
Memes aside, Sidon has a strong enough personality to stand out. Of course, none of these people get a ton of development, but that's par for the course with a Zelda game. A lot of fans act like the series had The Witcher 3 levels of plot and character depth before it went open world, and that's just not the case. They had very rudimentary plots that were meant to be narrative coat-hangers for sequences of dungeons, boss fights, overworld navigation, etc. And, in general, character personalities didn't get explored much beyond a few lines of dialogue before you moved on to the next series of heavily scripted sequences.
Majora's Mask is a possible exception on this front, but that game is massively different from most other Zelda titles.
@Ralizah
Well, I've never really spoken to someone who tries to relate Zelda characters/plot to Witch III levels, but I'm still one who thinks BotW is probably the weakest of the modern Zeldas when it comes to those things. I think some of it can be chalked up to nostalgia and replay, as well. When I was a kid, I'd get one MAYBE two games a year, so the year I got Ocarina or Major's Mask or Link's Awakening or whatever, that was literally the ONLY new game I'd have to play until next Christmas. You spent a heck of a lot of time with it, so you really got to know the characters and probably even started created more "stories" about them than was actually in the game lol
I say that, but I do have 150+ hours in BotW, which is nothing to sneeze at for most games. But even, I just don't feel drawn toward 99% of the characters like I have in other Zelda games. I don't know. Others have explained it better. I think a lot of it does have to do with the plot pretty much being "done" when you start the game, so there's really not much for any of the characters to do. And four of your biggest chances at character development (the Champions) are dead and only have flashback cutscenes and a few off-hand mentions from NPCs to flesh them out. Just my anecdote.
@rallydefault Perhaps nostalgia is part of it. Aside from Link's Awakening and Oracle of Ages (neither of which I got very far into as a child), I'd never actually played a Zelda game until 2011 when Ocarina of Time 3D released. Generally, I've experienced most of the older games in the series as they've been re-released this gen (Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask on 3DS; Wind Waker and Twilight Princess on Wii U; Oracle of Seasons, Zelda 1, Adventures of Link, and A Link to the Past via Virtual Console; etc.), so I don't have this emotional connection to an older style of game design that others might.
I'm guessing BotW2 will be a better storytelling experience for you, because I highly doubt they'll go the explicitly post-apocalyptic route with the sequel, where most of the major characters are dead and the world is destroyed, before you even wake up. Hyrule should ideally be rebuilding itself in the sequel. We'll see. BotW was such an iconoclastic entry in the series, so it'll be interesting to see what "classic Zelda" elements Nintendo preserves in the aftermath.
@Ralizah
For as much as I was a bit let down by BotW (great game, just not my Zelda cup of tea), I think BotW2 is gonna be awesome. I'm actually pretty excited for it.
I think they're gonna bring back some of the gameplay I was missing: more "thematic" dungeons with dramatically different bosses would be the single biggest plus for me. I would love to see some more items return to help in solving puzzles, though you could make an argument that many of those items do exist in BotW and can be used in some of the shrines, though the solutions to shrines rarely required the use of items.
But yea, in terms of character and plot, I just hope BotW2 is a bit tighter. Focus things in a bit more and show more of a progression in storyline through the characters and setting. Shrink the landmass if you have to, though I can't see them doing that: "BotW2 is 20% SMALLER than BotW!" Doesn't sound like the best marketing line to me lol
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Topic: Breath of the wild extremely overrated or am I missing something?
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