Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

@rallydefault I'm mostly saying that Gamechat is a worse offering compared to Discord, and it hogs memory at all times that make games perform worse. It's a very underwhelming gimmick for a console, given Nintendo is touting it as the main selling point behind the Switch 2- and you have to basically pay to use it.

It's going to suffer the same fate as Wii U chat I'm pretty sure. Most people who want to talk to others while gaming are just going to be better off using free services that come with more than what Nintendo is offering.

I'm also one of those "gamers" who doesn't understand how chatting with other players on an external device with an external screen and speaker would somehow be a better option than having the chat on the same screen and same speakers as the actual game you're playing together. Granted, I don't play much online co-op games, but to me the game chat option sounds like a much more convenient and less distracting way to do that. I do have Discord installed on my phone, but why would I want to use it for online gaming if the gaming device itself has a dedicated app for it?

@VoidofLight
Does the Switch have a Discord app?

@rallydefault Switch doesn't have discord, but the original hope a lot of people had was that Switch 2 would have a discord app built in so that you could get the better features of Discord (and existing accounts people used for game voice chat) and also be able to do it directly from the Switch; best of both worlds (and it wouldn't require a subscription service for users although Nintendo might have had to do something — Sony invested in Discord as part of the PlayStation discord integration).

I assume Nintendo didn't go that route at least partially because they wanted more control and in particular wanted a child-friendly and heavily restricted and guardrailed option. Which is a valid concern. Discord doesn't technically even allow users under 13 and it's more open to abuse than Nintendo probably wants in their (ignoring the eShop) child friendly platform.

Switch 1 had the true 'discord but worse' option which was voice chat on the mobile NSO app. Even in the height of animal crossing fever even very casual gamers who wanted to chat typically rejected that app in favor of discord or some other voice app. The NSO voice app was very briefly a heavily advertised thing but I don't get the impression it was ever used much. The new voice chat is clearly both easier to use and better than the NSO app so it will definitely be used, although my personal guess is it will be used significantly less than the amount of time Nintendo is focusing their advertising on it would indicate.

@rallydefault It doesn't, but people have phones. They have computers. They don't need an app built into the console that makes games run worse just because resources are being hogged by it at all times. You know what else a phone and computer usually has built-in? A camera. Something which Nintendo is charging extra for. When it was one of the other major features of Gamechat and Nintendo's push for online play. Another expense on top of the console's price, and on top of the price for NSO.

If you ask me, none of it is worth it when you have a competitor that literally does the same thing for free. When there are so many easy work-arounds to share footage of games you play on Switch with your friends. Capture cards are cheaper than the Nintendo Switch 2 camera (sure, they might not be the highest quality, but cheaper capture cards exist).

@VoidofLight
So you’re saying, if I’m just a Jo-shmo “gamer” and want to voice chat on Switch, I should use my phone?

I thought the Switch camera was just if you want the video, but the system can do the voice chat itself? (First year, then NSO, right?)

@VoidofLight To be fair, we only really have Digital Foundry's word on how much ram is used for what. All we're pretty sure is that Switch 2 allocates 3 GB ram for system 'stuff'. Switch 1 only used around 1 GB but it also had a non-functioning eShop and various other issues so I feel like it was inevitable 2 GB would be used for Switch 2, though I agree 3 was a bit of a shock (assuming it is true in general and not just for certain settings). Then again, PS5 OS still uses up 2.5 GB for the OS even without reserving for voice chat.

I do wonder about PlayStation. PS5 has integrated discord but doesn't explicitly set ram aside for it, it just uses it when it needs it.

@rallydefault The camera is being touted as a massive part of the experience, and yet it's something that you have to pay extra for. Gamechat is something you still have to pay extra for, even if it comes lumped in with NSO. It- again, takes resources away from games that could've used those resources. It is probably the main reason why Mario Kart World had FPS issues in the treehouse gameplay, and same with Donkey Kong- as it's always active even if you aren't using it.

Most people are going to use discord for this. People used Skype instead of Wii U chat. People used Discord instead of using the VC app for Switch. This is just another situation where that's just going to happen again. Some people will use Gamechat, but most will opt to use a platform that has better features and offers more than what Gamechat will.

That's certainly what most people did for Switch 1. Or the already built-in voice chat for games like fortnite on Switch (you had to own a compatible headset but they were very cheap at the time)

The whole situation about no pre-launch review units makes me think Switch 2 will be almost non-existent at Summer Game Fest and the Xbox showcase. Maybe the odd new trailer for already announced games like Silksong or FFVII Remake but not new announcements.

Surely if there was a big Switch 2 presence there, Nintendo would want people to pay attention to those events?

@FishyS
I thought we’re in the Switch 2 forum? Isn’t the Switch 2 going to have gamechat?

@rallydefault You asked if Switch had a discord app so I answered with a little context which I felt was relevant. You then mentioned not wanting to expect people to use phones for Switch 2, which is fair. I simply mentioned that it worked pretty well for Switch 1. I suspect a lot of those same people will keep using the voice chat options which have worked for them for years and have their current friend lists.

I'm all for options, I just don't think the new one will be overwhelmingly used. Maybe I'll be wrong, who knows. And I could certainly see some younger players using it more.

Edit: Slight possible confusion because you said 'Switch'. It's going to be confusing for a while as people either specify Switch 1 / 2 or just say Switch. I try to remember to specify but I occasionally say 'Switch' for Switch 1 which is definitely possibly confusing.

Yeah, nah, I think there are two separate ideas of what this is doing to replace discord like services going on here. People are talking over each other here. When I said earlier that setting up discord is a huge friction point for casual user I wasn't talking about sitting a phone or laptop on your table. I don't see a phone on a coffee table as a replacement for what this does

When I say that there's no chance someone like my sister will set this up I'm talking about the full shebang. The ability to capture both of our screens and share those screens between us within the one app on the console. In order to do that on Switch we'd have to setup capture cards at both ends and share that capture on those laptops. As @FishyS said earlier, I did do this during the pandemic with Jackbox games on my PC across the family. Mostly because the great thing about Jackbox it's a video feed and you interact with your phones anyways. Even that had some friction but it was do-able. But anything beyond that isn't happening

The ability to call my sister while we play Animal Crossing together..... that's NOT what this is. That's NOT what I'm hyped about. I'm hyped about the ability to buy a multiplayer game once on my end and gameshare a different screen to her which was can play together over GameChat. I'm hyped about the fact that it'll be low friction enough that we will be more likely to play games that would've otherwise required setup on both sides rather than just mine

If you think a phone on a coffee table replaces this? We're not talking about the same thing here

It's just a straight USB camera, you can use a different USB camera, you probably have a spare webcam lying around. I know I do. And in any case the camera is not required for this to work

And honestly, the fact that you're talking about capture cards here while talking about a phone on the table in the same post? Your argument is confused. Pick an argument. The current "solutions" to this problem are either too high friction or don't achieve the same outcomes. This isn't doing anything new, I don't disagree, but what it's doing is doing is packaging the higher friction setup behind a button on the controller. And doing it in a way that's integrated into things like GameShare

It's like that thing that Apple used to push in their marketing with the iPhone. The best camera is the one you have on you. It doesn't matter that this is not the most optimal solution in terms of video quality. What matters is that it's something that's built into the hardware and it's something everyone will have access to. And I know if I see a friend online on the Switch 2? If they have NSO, which if they're in my family group they do, we can gamechat, right there, on the console, wherever they are, docked or portable

@skywake Fair point, most of us were only talking about GameChat not GameShare. GameShare is a much more attractive feature. And I suppose if you're using GameShare anyways, people would just use the integrated voice chat. I wish Nintendo had branded those two features a little differently.

I may or may not use it; depends how they set up the privacy settings.

Even with it having less friction, I just can't realistically see it taking off. I can't see it being the big system selling feature that Nintendo is touting it as. I can't see majority of the users actually using it beyond the first initial free period for it.

It sucks if it does take resources away from the actual games. I don't intend to use the feature, and so I wish there was a way to disable it and allocate that space towards games- instead of consistently and constantly using RAM just for something a good few people never intend on utilizing. I wish there wasn't a button on every controller that's just waiting to be accidentally pressed for a paid service like this. It's again, like if Nintendo were to charge a subscription fee for someone to access the 3D on the 3DS.

@VoidofLight Assuming it's possible, I am considering remapping the c button to nothingness so I don't accidentally hit it 😆

Following up on Skywake's point... if you are e.g. a family and one person plays Mario Kart so has to subscribe to NSO anyways and another plays Splatoon so has to get NSO anyways, I guess GameShare lets those 2 people play both games with each other multiplayer without buying 2 copies? That's kind of nice and fills a gap which virtual game card lending doesn't allow.

@VoidofLight
Schrodinger's system resources. Apparently it both uses too many resources and impacts game performance but also doesn't use enough and delivers poor video feeds. The video feed has a low FPS because it doesn't have many resources allocated to it, I would say that's the right decision

@FishyS
Depends on if the game supports GameShare or can be played without a second controller. The Splatoon/Mario Kart example? That won't work in that way because neither supports GameShare. But the games that support GameShare will obviously work in that way as will games like What the Dub and Jackbox. And obviously if you both have the game that works

But also, and I know some will dismiss this use case, but you can also play a single player game and share your screen while on a call. Or both play a single player game and share your screen. And swap between games while you do it

I don't know, I think the sell of this feature is pretty obvious. I'm not sure why people are writing it off to the extent they are other than, presumably, them not being the target user and not being able to see it from the target user's perspective

@skywake I mean, I'm not saying it needs to use more, however the FPS for video feeds being abysmal is still a valid criticism of the feature even then. I just personally feel like the feature should be something that doesn't hog resources at all.Or if it did, they would've tried to get more RAM on the console.

Huh... I guess I didn't realize their GameShare support was quite so limited currently. The most useful game on the list would be Mario Party but that requires you to buy the Switch 2 upgrade... and won't let you share online. I guess I retract my very brief positivity of the feature.

Currently the list is so small some people probably don't have any of the games on it. Also seems weird not to have one of their big new features be compatible with their big new games.

I skipped this earlier but I think it's worth addressing

Where is this coming from? Seems to be pulled out of thin air. Yes the Switch 2 reserves 3GB RAM for the OS but it's doing so generally not specifically for Game Chat. I've heard nothing in my reading of Q&As and other such technical discussions to suggest that this is what's happening or that it's a resource hog

Also I would note that other previous generation consoles reserved 2GB when there was only 8GB total and Switch reserves almost 1GB despite having 4GB total. So broadly Switch 2 is being fairly typical here with the reserved RAM size given the 12GB total RAM. I expect mostly this RAM will be used for allowing more than one system and more complex system apps. Yes including GameChat, but not specifically GameChat

What I do know is that the Switch 2 has fairly decent hardware video encode decode, specifically back ported, and that in addition to OS reserved RAM (which is also used for system menus, downloads, eShop etc) they also reserve a tiny fraction of the GPU that can be used for for audio filtering and video cropping in game chat. Resources which disappear and some when you swap to portable mode anyways

To suggest that they're locking 3GB of RAM away specifically for Game Chat is nonsense. So save this drama for somewhere else, I ain't buying it, it's BS